BS: Those handy UK expressions...

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 01:58 PM

The original mean of 'scragging' was execution by hanging.

Henry Mayhew interviewed a London street ballad singer [of murder ballads], in the mid-19th century, who told him that, before a law was passed that prolonged the period between conviction and execution, "there wasn't no time for a Lamentation; sentence o'Friday, and scragging o'Monday."

'London Labour and the London Poor' first pub. 1861 - 1862.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Rumncoke
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 12:25 PM

Get is the offspring, usually of the sire, in animals as in 'The get of Jaunting Boy tend to have speed but not endurance'.

Git is a term used in casting - it is the hole (gate?) through which the molten metal is poured and also the extra piece of metal attached to the casting when it has cooled, and which is knocked off - hence 'useless git'.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 10:51 AM

"It's like trying to plait fog!"   I suppose that's a bit like "trying to herd cats".

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Mo the caller
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 09:28 AM

So you did.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Jul 10 - 08:06 AM

Oh dear, I caught myself saying 'Lawks-a-mussy' today :)

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 07:49 AM

I'm certain "I'll swing for you" is a reference to being done for murder.

Maybe as the idea of capital punishment recedes into history (apart from places like the USA, China and Iran), the original understanding of this will vanish, and merge with the unrelated meaning embodied in eg "I felt like taking a swing at him", where it is of course abouut punching.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Howard Jones
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 07:28 AM

"Clever clogs is always plural. You'd say, "He thinks he's a clever-clogs" not "a clever clog".

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Howard Jones
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 07:26 AM

A scragging would usually be a gentle roughing up - probably a fairly good-natured going-over rather than an actual beating-up. Although, with the British penchant for understatement, it could mean something more violent, up to and including death.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:59 AM

Does anyone know the true origin of the phrase, "I'll swing for you!"?

Many people who I speak to seem to assume that it means, "I'm so annoyed with you that I'll swing a punch at you!"

But I think that it means, "I'm so annoyed with you that I'll murder you and swing on the gallows for you!"

Does anyone know which explanation is correct?

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: ichMael
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 10:40 PM

Clever clogs get scragged in the bog.

I heard that one once, on some British TV show. Clever clog would be a smartass, and the bog is the toilet. Not sure what scragged means. Some form of punishment, I'd imagine.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Tangledwood
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 07:54 PM

In the UK it is "Spitting out your dummy" but "throwing your toys out of the pram" is more common.

Thanks Ian. Who says that TV isn't educational? We keep up with most of the Pommie expressions by viewing The Bill regularly. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:57 PM

"I'm not as green as I am cabbage - looking", was one of my Grandma's favourite phrases.

If I think that someone has under-estimated my intelligence I tend to say, "I'm not as green as YOU'RE cabbage-looking".

My original source for this phrase is now lost in the mists of history.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 03:23 PM

A few from `'`North of the Border", i.e. Scotland, which has a lot of regional variations.

Neds = yobs = young men of anti-social behaviour

Mingin (already mentioned) -and manky, both meaning dirty and probably smelly.
Clarty: dirty.

Polis = Police (more emphasis on the FIRST syllable), Fuzz also used.

Dreich = wet and miserable weather

Pished = pissed = drunk
Pished aff = pissed off = annoyed/fed up
Scunnered = fed up with something

Shite = shit (and past tense shat!)

And from Aberdeenshire: "Fit fit does it fit?" (in a shoe shop - "Which foot does it fit")

And Tattie = potato
Bogle = ghost, but
Tattie Bogle + scarecrow!

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Anne Lister
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:05 AM

Paul, that's probably what he was telling me ... he spends his working days talking 17th century English and they check word derivations carefully to avoid anachronisms.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Paul Burke
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:36 PM

Anne, your husband might know much more than he lets on, but "git" is the same word as "get", which meant a bastard child:

Was it in the chamber got, or was it in the hall
Or was it in the haystack, or by the barnyard wall...

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Anne Lister
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:02 PM

I once bamboozled a waiter in Cafe Rouge by ordering in French. Despite whatever pretensions he had he was English and didn't understand me ...oh, bless. (Should say here that my French is fluent. His, clearly, wasn't.)

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:32 PM

"is usually wasted on the assistants, who seem to be usually immigrants with only a basic grasp of English."

I don't go to places like StarBucks or their ilk, but I always fancied that the French speaking waitresses and waiters with zero English at places like Cafe Rouge were a poncey 'continental' stylee conceit of the establishment, giving sad social-climbing wannabe wankers with O' Level French a hard on as they ordered their Onion Soup.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Anne Lister
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:19 PM

Incidentally, my husband (who knows about such things!) says that "git" comes from "illegitimate" rather than pregnant camels, and "pillock" comes from "pillicock" which was a jester, a fool, a dandyprat.
So now we know!

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Anne Lister
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:33 AM

Have to say that when I was teaching in the East End of London I never heard anyone called anything as fun as a pilchard. If only. Mildest form of abuse (for a woman) was to be called a silly or dozy mare. For a man ...probably a wally or a wazzock.
I got into trouble once with a pupil who had consistently misbehaved on a school trip to France. On the final day there were yet more misdemeanours and I was short of sleep, lacking in patience and close to throttling the child, but I carefully held my hands behind my back. And called him a wally. His parent complained about me, and my head teacher called me in for a discussion of the incident. After hearing the circumstances he said (and this was not a man noted for his understanding and sensitivity) "I do think on this occasion you were wrong to call him a wally. If I'd been in your situation I would have called him a ***&£*! idiot. The complaint will go no further." And it didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:59 AM

Another American meaning of "regular" is becoming known here since the spread of Starbucks and their imitators. Coffee now comes in 3 sizes - Small (about twice the size of a British coffee cup), "Regular" (meaning very large) and Large (meaning a bucket).

This usage seems to be accepted by the young but sneered at by the older generation (someone said in the TV programme 'Grumpy Old Men', "when did the English start drinking coffee by the pint?"). However replying "I don't want to know about its bowel habits" when asked if you want a "regular coffee" is usually wasted on the assistants, who seem to be usually immigrants with only a basic grasp of English.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: mayomick
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:31 AM

What about the the term "good manners" which is an expression used this side of the Atlantic to denote a cultured ,polite attitude to one's fellow diner etc ?
Here's another one "taking the occasional bath"
I'm sorry old chaps I hope I haven't offended anybody.
I've just noticed that last expression "I'm sorry old chaps I hope I haven't offended anybody." is an excellent example of what I referred to above as "good manners".

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:07 AM

In the UK it is "Spitting out your dummy" but "throwing your toys out of the pram" is more common.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Tangledwood
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:29 AM

"Spitting the dummy" - loosing ones temper.

Very common in Australia, is it also in use in UK? I assume that it is not American as I believe they use "pacifier" instead of "dummy"?

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 08:33 PM

In the same case mayomick referred to there was another similar misunderstanding - when she was asked if a particular meeting was "a regular meeting" she said it was, and this was taken to be a lie, since it was one which she knew would be a difficult one, where she might be sacked. But for an English girl "a regular meeting" would normally mean one which was scheduled to happen at a regular time.

Sometimes these different meanings can have major consequences - there was a battle in the Korean War where the British commander communcating with the Americans reported that things were getting "a bit tricky", or words to tat effect - meaning they were pretty desperate. The Americans took it as meaning that the situation was reasonably good, and the needed assistance never arrived, with disatrous consequences for the unit.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: paula t
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 07:45 PM

I love the expression, "It's like trying to plait fog!" which always comes to mind when trying to get 25 young children out of the classroom door with all of their belongings at the end of the day.

"I'm not as green as I am cabbage - looking", was one of my Grandma's favourite phrases.

How about these...

Rat - arsed (drunk)
Three sheets to the wind (drunk)
There's a light on, but there's nobody in.(Not the most intelligent person)

Sleep tight

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: mayomick
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 07:43 PM

The UK frequent use of the word "pop" as a casual substitute for either "put" or "go" had to be carefully explained in that tragic Boston court case a few years ago .When a young English baby-sitter charged with killing a baby in her charge said in testimony that she had "popped" him down on the bed ,the prosecution took it as an admission that she had struck the child.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: mayomick
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 07:06 PM

McGrath, you mentioned pilock earlier . I always liked that one as well. It's a fish of some sort or other - another word for a pilchard . That's what I heard anyway . You used to occasionally hear people say "silly pilchard" as a mild form of abuse around the east end of London. Pilock was harsher ,usually preceded by the word "fucking".

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 06:36 PM

I know he did - but I think he probably got it wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 06:13 PM

FWIW Partridge ("Historical Slang") derives that sense of "bounder" from "one who bounds offensively about" - as Cambridge University slang , late 19C.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 06:03 PM

One from my youth: If a carefully expressionless guy stands squarely in front of you and calls you 'Pal' it's time to take to your scrapers, or have it away on your toes.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: mayomick
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 04:34 PM

The modern use of "git" comes from servicemen's slang , surely. A ghit is a pregnant camel.   Did narkey get mentioned so far in this thread ? It means bad tempered .As in "narkey old git" .

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:36 PM

A couple from my Nan:

"Go have a run", don't be so stupid.
"acting the goat", being silly (disparaging).

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:25 PM

I'd say it's more likely nthat "bounder" comes from being someone who behaves outside the bounds of decent behaviour, an outsider.

Not a term that is very commonly used these days, though the behaviour that would have been implied is common enough. The same goes for a word with a similar meaning, cad. Both would now only be used in a joking manner. For serious comment we'd have to use a term such as "a shit"

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 07:23 AM

No ! the line is,
The judge he guilty found her,
Of robbing a homeward bounder,
And she'll never roam down Paradise no more.


Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: IanC
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 06:18 AM

I'm also very pleased to see this old thread re-surface.

I've recently been thinking about bounder ... upper class English slang for a morally reprehensible person (usually male) beloved of P. G. Wodehouse.

I'm pretty sure it derives as a shortening of "Outward Bounder" meaning someone who has a one-way ticket to the colonies (i.e. transported as a criminal) as in Maggie May

The Judge he guilty found her, he made her an outward bounder

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 06:02 AM

Good to see this revived thread.

"Horlicks" in this context is a slightly politer substitution for "bollocks", meaning rubbish.

Horlicks the drink is still generally available - it used to be advertised with little mini-stories where a wise family doctor would advise some patient to use it because it helped you get "deep sleep".

Curiously enough, while "talking bolllocks" means talking rubbish, "the dog's bollocks" means pretty good - though liable to be used disparagingly in the saying "he thinks he's the dog's bollocks", implying that he isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Stu
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 05:56 AM

Face like a slapped arse

Face like a bulldog licking piss off a nettle

Stone the crows

Crikey

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 02:46 AM

Cheeky means brazen, sort of, bold as brass as in say taking advantage of a situation as a small child or animal will do. Think of an organ grinder's monkey, begging or dipping it's fingers into your pocket.

I like "gets on me tits" for something that is annoys me.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: olddude
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 10:37 PM

What exactly does "cheeky" mean?? can someone explain that one to this Appalachian farm boy?

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 10:13 PM

In this message, Folkiedave said something is "pure horlicks." What's the meaning of that expression?

Does it have anything to do with the Horlick Malted Milk Company? The company was founded in 1875 in my home town, Racine, Wisconsin, by William Horlick and his brother, James. The brothers Horlick were apparently born in the UK, and emigrated to Wisconsin. James returned to England and opened an branch there in 1890. The company is now owned by GlaxoSmithKline, and I don't think it has any US operations. My home town of Racine had 90,000 people and a bustling manufacturing economy when I moved there from Detroit in 1958. Now, Racine has 70,000 (aging) inhabitants and a lot of empty factories.

Slate.com has some speculation on the meaning of "pure horlicks."

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: folk1e
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 06:27 PM

How about the old original ...... to stick two fingers up

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 04:34 AM

In and out like a blue arsed fly.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Splott Man
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 03:59 AM

Ants in his pants

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: TheSnail
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 07:41 PM

Up and down like a whore's draws.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Rowan
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 04:31 PM

In and out like a fiddler's elbow reminded me.

For a person who's restless, continually sitting down and then getting up, or for when you are trying to sit and concentrate but repeated interruptions require you to get up and attend to something else, there were two phrases common in my youth;

Up and down like a bride's nightie

and

Up and down like a dunny seat at a mixed picnic

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Splott Man
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 09:54 AM

"All mouth and trousers."

The US equivalent is probably "Full of piss and vinegar".



"She's no better than she ought to be!"

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 07:21 AM

running in and out, like a dog at the fair - somebody rather restless in temperament

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Chorusgirl
Date: 08 Nov 07 - 06:21 AM

My grandma used to say "you've got a voice like tearing oilcloth." Guess that's obselete now.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Bert
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 02:47 PM

It's not the cough that carries you off
it's the coffin they carry you off in.

Subject: RE: BS: Those handy UK expressions...
From: Bert
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 03:04 PM

How's your belly off for spots?