BS: Girls' school trousers uk

Subject: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 09:57 AM

I have a small problem. My 12 year old daughter's school uniform includes black trousers. At the end of the summer holidays we searched everywhere....Next, New Look, M&S, on line, for decent quality black trousers and found NONE. All they had was polyester or a polyester/viscose mix 'fashion' trousers. The quality is appalling. They have no pockets (Wouldn't think of selling boys' trousers without pockets!) which she needs for a hankie, bus pass and keys. I really don't like buying, wearing, or dressing my kids in synthetic fabrics but there wasn't even anything with a percentage of cotton or wool. In the end, though jeans are forbidden, I bought her a pair of black cotton jeans. With her jumper over the top no one should have known the difference. Now, six weeks into the term, their head of year went into the change rooms when they were changing for PE and saw Shady's jeans properly and has sent a note home. Any suggestions? I'm not prepared to compromise on this and we are sending a note back saying that if they can find decent quality cotton, wool or a mix trousers at a reasonable price we'd be happy to buy them.

She told Shady that they were supposed to wear tailored trousers. Huh! The rubbish things everyone else wears are massed produced tack...no way are they 'tailored'

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 11:11 AM

The "uniform" shops which provide the boys' trousers should also provide the girls' trousers. The school should be able to provide you with a list of people who supply the correct trousers.

This is an equal opportunities issue which is why girls are now allowed (and correctly IMO) to wear trousers. However, if the girls wear jeans then the boys must also be allowed to wear jeans (equal opportunities).

In my experience schools do state tailored trousers for both boys and girls - fashion trousers are not allowed.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 11:30 AM

Surely it must be possible to find a pair of black cotton chinos in Shady's size Lynne. Even a pair of boys pants would be OK at her age possibly.
Adam's Kids
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 12:07 PM

Deva Lifewear sells nothing but cotton and a little bit of rayon. If you look closely, some of their trousers could pass for tailored, imo, and even though they may seem a bit pricey, they last for years even with constant wearing. Good luck!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 12:12 PM

I have known girls wear the trousers stated as uniform for the boys. You wouldn't know that they were boys' trousers, they looked good, the girls were comfortable and happy in them and, of course, the school could not complain.

What needs to be avoided with this trouser issue is any anxiety for the girls and any feeling on their part that they are different in any way. They need trousers that fit in with school policy so that they are not getting hassled but they do need to be comfortable and I agree that sitting all day in synthetic fabrics is not always comfortable especially in certain types of weather.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: GUEST,Bill D
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 12:14 PM

If other girls there have the 'right' ones, surely one could ask where they got them..

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Rumncoke
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 01:03 PM

The problem is that the shops which had a small stock of trousers are sold out - often before the end of the last term.

I found that shopping for uniform in the summer holidays resulted in expensive items in about the right size or the leftovers, very large and small in the cheaper ranges, or the worst case was nothing left.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Schantieman
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 01:27 PM

...and if the girls are allowed to wear trousers, presumably the boys are allowed to wear skirts?

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 01:38 PM

I think everybody is hoping they won't want to!

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Hawker
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 01:47 PM

Lynne, Strangely enough, I had a similar problem this weekend, last term I bought 2 pairs of the school suppliers trousers for Amber. One pair s zip went completely within 2 weeks and last week, the other pair split around her nether regions. I went to buy her some new ones on Saturday and faced with the same rubbish choice as you outlined, I plumped, like you, for black cotton jeans..........We'll see how long it takes before she gets rumbled!
It is a crazy world!
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 01:48 PM

Weel lassie, let me tell you, I went tae the school in a skirt. Mind, it wis tartan wi a wee sporran on the front.
Giok

Failte!"

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 01:53 PM

I love kilts - my father was Scottish.

Our secondary school in Knaresborough has kilts as part of the uniform and they look much nicer than the school uniform skirts of other schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:07 PM

Anything will be better than the hideous fairy dress and leggings they wear - to make themselves look ugly perhaps??

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:17 PM

did you try Matalan. I really like Matalan.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: gnu
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 03:23 PM

Uniforms? Not quite keen on uniforms, me. More keen on individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: North/South Annie
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 03:58 PM

Lynne,
I sympathise with you having been through this with my three girls. I think we did have to buy 'fashion -ish' ones sometimes but managed to find some in that polyester & viscose mix that feel more like heavy cotton, are warmer and more comfortable than the thin polyester ones,and mostly they came from New Look and Tammy Girl, although I recall sometimes buying from eg. Dorothy Perkins, Top Shop, or better still department stores eg. Debenhams (petite range perhaps?or try the 'Casual Club' section -I get my own cotton trousers that look more like trousers than jeans there and there are different leg lengths - short in my case! Plus they are a classic style (suit any age)and have pockets.)Hope this helps. regards
Annie

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 04:07 PM

Try Cotton Traders

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 04:09 PM

Eanjay, the only reason the boys' trousers are any better is because they have pockets. They are still rubbishy synthetics. I've been having the same troucle with Richard's school trousers. I looked for black chinos but could find them in every other colour. It appears that black is not fashionable at the moment.

All the other girls wear the fashion trousers. Presumably their mothers are prepared to put up with synthetic rubbish. These trousers don't even have zips, they are all elasticated waist.

New Look and Dorothy Perkins don't have anything. Even the women's trousers these days seem to be really poor quality

We don't have a Debenhams near us. Presumably they have a web site so I'll have a look.

Thanks for the help

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 04:11 PM

The Deva lifewear stuff is great kat, but it would cost me an arm and a leg to order it from the States.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 04:19 PM

Is this any help?

Lynne, I don't know if this is any good. It seems as if it would be easier to get what you want if the required colour was grey!

They don't make it easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 04:35 PM

Have a Black Dye party in the garden?

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 04:54 PM

Thanks eanjay. Interesting to know that there IS a demand out there. Perhaps I should go into the business of manufacturing them!

I have actually just managed to find some 100% cotton and 98% cotton/2%elastane trousers, with pockets, but they are women's and the smallest size is 10 which I think is still too big for Shady.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 04:59 PM

Heehee! It seems that it's quite easy to find black cotton bondage trousers!!! Perhaps I should send her to school in those. After all, all the uniform says is "Black trousers, no jeans". Lol!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 05:24 PM

Just for interest sake, are skirts not allowed? Most schools I know give a choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 05:33 PM

Sewing...... surely someone you know would like to pick up a bit of pocket money to make them up to order?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 08:28 PM

"I have actually just managed to find some 100% cotton and 98% cotton/2%elastane trousers, with pockets, but they are women's and the smallest size is 10 which I think is still too big for Shady."
If that's the case, then surely boys trousers will do. I realise that the fly points the wrong way, but the closure at the top is usually covered by a belt, and the fly direction is only noticeable if pulled taut.
If girls insist on wearing trousers, then use what's available.

Apologies if this sounds sexist, but the girls do get the advantage. If it's hot they can wear skirts, and trousers when it's cold. They are not usually expected to wear ties.
It is a sexist world, and the girls usually get the benefit!.

(Rant over!)

CHEERS
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Rowan
Date: 14 Oct 07 - 11:58 PM

If the fact that the 'trousers' were in fact "jeans" was not noticed until a teacher was prowling around the changing rooms I'd be telling the principal where to get off. I suppose it's a long bow to rake up OH&S as an excuse for avoiding polyester but, personally, I don't wear artificial fibres for exactly that reason.

I'd have thought the school would be a bit more flexible than seems to have been the case.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 03:04 AM

I can sympathise with you Lynne - finding trousers for Limpit has been the devils' own job this year. She must wear navy blue for her school and of course, we can find any colour BUT navy blue. The school approved shop charges an appalling amount and the materials are all synthetic.

It will eventually come to the point where I will have to start making her trousers, if I can ever find any navy blue cotton fabric!

Woolworths (Ladybird range) had a goodly selection of mixed fibre trousers, at a reasonable price, if you have one near you. Oddly enough, in our local Big W, the colours available are grey and black. I don't know of any secondary school in this area, where the uniform includes grey or black trousers for girls!

It's all a symptom of the mass produced, stack it high, sell it cheap mentallity that we've all come to expect. We no longer have quality manufacturers selling decent items at a reasonable price. I think the upsets in local government, the Civil Service and other public services has proved that 'Best Value' (i.e., cheapest available) is never best option. The majority wants something cheap, sooner or later, the cheapest is all that is available.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 04:30 AM

My daughter's school not only gives you the list of stuff they need - it HAS to be from specific suppliers, and is only available in a couple of shops. This is supposed to counter the whole "fashion trousers" thing, and create a genuine uniformity in the uniforms.

The quality of both the skirts (she won't wear trousers, as none of her friends do) and the blazers is total crap. Especially the blazers, which are affordable but feel cheap and nasty. I'd rather pay more for a blazer that would last a couple of years and still look smart, rather than a synthetic one. Mind, at least they're machine washable.

So I feel your pain, Liz.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: MBSLynne
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 05:19 AM

Skirts are allowed but she won't wear one because no one else does. It is quite likely difficult to find them in anything but synthetics too.

Nigel, the boys' trousers are all synthetic too.

Susan, I have thought of making them myself. I may still go that way.

Rowan, we've sent the teacher concerned a letter this morning, copying it to the headmaster.

Liz, the link eanjay sent mentions a website called eczemaclothing or something. Though they had no black trousers (all grey I think) they did sell different colours of cotton uniform fabric.

Ruth Archer...there has just been a survey by (I think) Ofsted into school uniforms and they are saying that schools are not allowed to specify only certain shops...uniforms must be affordable and easily available. if I can find the article I read I'll send it to you. It was BBC.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: The Walrus
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 06:15 AM

Lynne,

If the school couldn't tell the odds between the jeans and trousers except on closer inspection, but have banned jeans; and if you have the skill to make trousers, may I suggest that you take the 'offending' jeans, open the french seam on the outside leg and remake it as a 'standard' seam, then remove the patch pockets, cut and insert linen/cotton internal pockets (using the removed patch pockets for the 'lead in', pocket edge binding and pocket flaps), you then no longer have jeans, but a pair of trousers in denim with a few rivets.

just a thought.

Tom (Walrus)

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 06:44 AM

thread drift, but still about unsuitable uniforms, especially in Sydney's summer humidity.

Some years back the Govt cleaned up the taxi industry, grubbed out cowboy drivers (strangely enough, some have come back over the years!) & provided neat uniforms. Naturally they were made of pure polyester (no cotton muck in it, so it doesn't crease!), not teh fabric to be worn by drivers sitting behind & beside glass windows.

Then lotsa' taxi owners installed perspex anti-attack pods, so drivers were then fully encased in glass, perspex & polyester.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: *Laura*
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 09:30 AM

Lynne - I used to get my school trousers from Topshop - and my school was VERY strict on the 'no fashion trousers' thing. But Topshop sizes are quite big... so they might not fit your daughter yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 09:37 AM

The problem with denim in any colour is that it fades rapidly. What may be a nice, solid black pair of trousers at the beginning of term, will have faded patches and grey areas by the end of term, making them into 'jeans'. The best fabric to get would be a heavy duty black cotton drill, available at most good haberdashers. It washes well, is soft and breathes, but retains its colour and doesn't rub too easily. Being cotton it's easy to sew as well!

Good luck.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 01:21 PM

I thought they go to school to learn, not to wear approved trousers?

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 02:18 PM

What was wrong with gymslips? Bloody well good enough when I were at skewl, should be good enough now. Why do women always want to dress up as men? :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 03:19 PM

"there has just been a survey by (I think) Ofsted into school uniforms and they are saying that schools are not allowed to specify only certain shops...uniforms must be affordable and easily available. if I can find the article I read I'll send it to you. It was BBC."

aaah, but this is a grammer school - albeit a state one. They still seem to be a law unto themselves, though the uniform is reasonably affordable. They have a "uniform bank" at the school for second-hand stuff, which is probably how they get round the rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 03:30 PM

"grammer"? Err, that should be "grammar".

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 06:20 PM

Backwoodsman - why are all the calls for a return to skirts and gymslips coming only from men?

If you had to wear one during your formative years, you'd soon change your tune. Especially if it had your name embroidered across the front of it and you were made to wear the huge, deeply unsexy, full sized bottle green knickers that went with it.

Thanks. You've put my therapy back by weeks making me remember that!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 06:43 PM

I still say, buy the grey ones an dye them black. When they start to fade too much, dye them again.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: mg
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 10:39 PM

If I had time at home during the week,I would take her out of school for the day and say here daughter..we (not I) are going to make the first pair and you will make the second pair with my consultation and you alone will make the third pair....it would be more than she would learn at any day of school. Just simple ones with elastic waist etc. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 11:20 PM

We moved back over to the UK in 1990 and lived there for 5 years. When my children started school my daughters were not allowed to wear trousers. The second year (I think) we were there it was absolutely freezing cold and the girls were given special dispensation to wear trousers. My little tomboy squeaked in delight, moved into trousers adn.........never went back to skirts.......she just wouldn't wear them. Since then she has been in a skirt/dress three times - two proms and her eighth grade graduation (she boycotted her high school graduation). While in principle I am a fan of uniform as it does act as a leveler, it just seems silly in today's world to a) not let girls wear trousers, or boys skirts if they so choose and b) not be able to get them in a decent quality....

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: mg
Date: 15 Oct 07 - 11:34 PM

I am absolutely totally for a uniform policy in schools...ranging from fairly loose..wear navy pants of any sort including jeans, and a white shirt or pink or blue shirt and a navy or something else sweater or fleece...

That eliminates so much abuse that they give each other for one thing..so much competetiion, so many nasty things on T-shirts, so many unclothed girls and I am sure now boys..well, those exposing pants they wear...and keep the hair out of their faces while you are at it. I am convinced there is some correlation with boys with these in their face awful, unflattering to the max haircuts and defiance of some sort. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Rowan
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 12:47 AM

The schools in my town all require uniforms but, for the public ones (ie, "govt." and not the "private schools") there is some flexibility. In primary schools, shirts are colours that can be bought not just at the two or three shops that stock all the public schools' bits of uniforms but at the elcheapo outlets too. Boys tend to wear grey shorts or trousers no matter what the rest is coloured. Full pinafores (probably the UK tunics and US gymslips, which can have the top bit separated from the skirt), skirts and skorts all tend to be various checks and plaids so are bought either from the respective school clothing pools or the couple of specialist shops. While any school's uniform is likely to be unique in any country town most of the plaids will be used at multiples of schools across Oz so costs are fairly low.

High school (where the fashionistas get keen and my daughters can rate coolth to three decimal places) uniforms are a boon. Shirts at all the schools are white, ties and blazers are kept in a cupboard in the school office and trotted out only for formal photos. Boys wear grey of black trousers and girls wear the same or plaid skirts; although jeans are 'frowned on' nobody gets bothered unless a 'formal' event is involved. Most kids artound here have so much "after school" action (music, dance, sport, drama, etc) that flexibilty in uniform is accepted by all except the private schools where there is a belief that they must demonstrate a sense of superiority, despite performace that contradicts such a belief.

Cotton drill work trousers (and shirts) come in all the colours that schools and govt institutions might want, including grey and navy blue. I haven't yet seen them in black or I'd volunteer to send you some Lynne.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 04:05 AM

see, once they get to 6th form here (post-16) most schools - even a strict girls' grammar - doesn't have uniforms. Only private schools really continue it post-16. They can wear makeup and jewellery at D's school in 6th form, too. So you get this juxtaposition between the demure, fresh-faced uniformed ones, all blazers and skirts and flat-heeled shoes, and this explosion at 16 that's all about hair and makeup and jewellery. And they share the same school. Very odd.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 05:12 AM

Aaaaahhh, the bottle green knickers, Liz! Actually they were navy at our local girls' school, but still the same huge size and thick material - known by us lads as 'Belly-Warmers' or 'Passion-Killers'.

But at least girls looked smart and their nether regions were kept hidden from the lustful gaze of 14-year-old lads running on that first youthful overload of testosterone! So much nicer than those vile trousers the girls wear now - cut W-A-Y too tight and too low, so they perpetually have the 'camel's foot' showing at the front and, at the back, the 'Brickie's Arse', complete with those foul thong-things stuck up the bum-crack and showing over the waistband - ugh, repulsive or what?

My request for gymslips wasn't driven by old-man's lust, Liz, but by a wish to see 'Young Ladies' on our streets, properly dressed once again. A forlorn hope, I fear!
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 06:02 AM

I'm a believer in uniform and have always kitted my kids out in it completely but I'm not prepared to put up with paying for sub-standard clothing.

Ruth, my son is in the 6th form and they still have to wear uniform. It's different colours from the lower school and has a little more flexibility than the younger kids have.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: The PA
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 08:02 AM

My son too is in 6th form and whilst they do not have to wear uniform smart dress is expected.

Boys, shirt, tie, smart suit-type trousers, black shoes not trainers, no logo-s on clothing, no 'obvious' jewellery only wrist watches or studs in ears only.

Girls, blouses or tops, knee length skirts, bare legs are discouraged as are 'over the top' shoes, no bare bellies or low cut tops, no make-up or 'unusual' hairstyles. Jewellery, as for the boys.

Both are encouraged to wear suits, and many do.

This dress code is 'policed' just as strictly as the uniform for lower years, and boy are they strict.

Nobody objects and they all look really smart going in, in the mornings. We think its a good first step to dressing how many of them will have to for work in the years to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 08:23 AM

Sounds great. Just the way it should be. IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Girls' school trousers uk
From: MBSLynne
Date: 16 Oct 07 - 09:19 AM

Agreed. Actually my son's school did away with ties about four years ago and he wasn't happy at all. He would far rather wear a proper shirt and tie than the polo shirts which are now the uniform.


Love Lynne