BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!

Subject: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:47 AM

I think I finally have it figured out-- I'm a little slow.

OJ must have planned and executed the Vegas "sting" caper to prove he was just too damn dumb to have pulled off a murder or two. It also would have gained him back the merch he didn't want to let the Goldmans know that he had, since taking the "thives" to court would have required he invientory and value the items, on the record.

But I think it's an extension of the PR campaign sparked off with "If I Did It--" a chance to show off his dimwit side in an effort to re-establish his reputation as a victim of circumstance!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:50 AM

OJ, OJ, OJ!

Fuck Him, Fuck Him, Fuck Him!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:52 AM

After watching the behavior of the average NFL player I don't think anyone would be surprised at the possibility of a footballer's dim wittedness.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 10:53 AM

OJ robs Casino = Ocean's 13

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:00 AM

Wow, that's a lot of posts in a short time.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Louie Roy
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:05 AM

He got away with murder last time I hope they nail him this time

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: topical tom
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:55 AM

O.J. O.J. O.J O Joy! Another chance to get him out of circulation for s while and protect the population for a time.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 11:56 AM

Donuel, most pro footballers have college degrees or fall just short.
Many have gone on to careers in law, politics, medicine, business and show business...just not many recently.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Amos
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:50 PM

...but a few walk away brain damaged...


A

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:58 PM

Very nearly all NFL players serve their football apprenticeship at one college or another. This may or may correlate to becoming educated, or even to being a decent human being, depending on the individual. Some schools are more serious than others in making sure that their hired gladiators get a real education, and some players are certainly more serious than others about becoming educated.

There have always been hoodlums, thugs, and borderline-illiterates who find a way through the system, and once they sign a pro contract and get that big money, some of them exhibit really outrageous behavior. In recent years, with the dollar amounts in play becoming ever higher, a few of these antisocial types have found themselves able to misbehave in extremely high-profile fashion. Lots of these guys are very much in love with themselves, and when they get those fat contracts, they understand them as an affirmation of their high opinions of themsleves. They believe themselves above the rst of us, and don't think that they're subject to the same ruels as the rest of humanity.

On the other hand, there have always been good guys whose participation is sports truly exemplifies all the platitiudes we've all heard about sportsmanship, discipline, etc. I'm not speaking only of the elite group of true "scholar-athletes," guys who have gone on to become Supreme Court Justices*, etc., but also of the many who may not have 98th-percentile IQs and are not especially bookish, but who are decent thoughtful citizens and in many cases donate much of their time and fortune to charities in their communities. The current roster of the New Orleans Saints, for example, seems to have been assembled with an eye to "character" ~ solid citizens to a man, many of them volunteering for varous causes in a community that needs all the help it can get.

I don't think that there are any fewer good guys "recently" than ever before; I think that what's different about recent years is that the bad apples are finding ever more spectacular ways to offend the rest of us.

*(There has been only one US Supreme Court justice with a pro-football background, the late Byron "Whizzer" White. I used the plural because I know of at least one state supreme court justice, Alan Page of Minnesota, formerly of the Vikings and, before that, Notre Dame class of 1967.)

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 01:00 PM

OJ...Christ! My mother is sitting around watching the damned thing for several hours a day on her TV. I'd rather watch fungus grow. She's hoping, like everyone else, that he gets nailed but good this time, and she can't tear herself away.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 01:07 PM

Is he a psychopath? Yes. Did he commit a double murder? Yes. Did he commit 1st degree murder? No. And THAT'S what lost the prosecution the case. That coupled w/some of the worst prosecutorial blunders in jurisprudence history. OJ went to the residence to SCARE his ex w/t knife. Terroristic threats, kidnapping, stalking, assault, but NOT murder at this point. Up walks Ron Goldman w/t glasses and OJ snaps killing them both. Temporary insanity not MALICE AFORETHOUGHT which is the defining issue of 1ST degree murder. He was/is guilty, but not of 1st degree he's guilty of 2nd degree. Had the prosecution gone for 2nd instead of 1st there's no doubt in my mind they would've gotten a confession and he'd still be in prison for LIFE. And Mark Furman planted the glove found behind his house, no doubt. Read the transcripts from the Kato Kaelin examination both straight and cross. Mark Furman was/is an unrepentant racist and had the motive and opportunity to plant the glove. I find his presence on cable news as an 'expert' detective' as an affront. Like was said in a clip filmed at a barber shop, "Mark Furman tried to frame a guilty man."

Did OJ orchestrate this Vegas thing? Of course. Are the witnesses rolling on him to get lighter sentences for themselves? Absolutely. Are we all tired of OJ, OJ, OJ? Yes, yes, YES!!

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Pseudolus
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 01:14 PM

The only chance of a different outcome based on first degree vs second degree theory is your suggestion that he may have confessed. I'm not sure he would have but if he had not, that jury was gonna let him go, regardless....

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 01:37 PM

I disagree. It's subjective of course, but I believe the jury would've rendered a guilty verdict on a charge of 2nd degree because that's what was/is the truth. But, he would've gotten a reduced sentence had he confessed instead of going to trial. Since the trial the jurors have been asked as to why they chose not guilty and they all believed him to have been framed on some level. And they were right. 2nd degree would've been proveable and made the prosecution seem to be a little more sympathetic to the truth rather than simply trying to hang an 'uppity...' Which was how the case presentation was interpreted, and rightfully so, by the jurists.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 03:17 PM

heh heh heh - Pablo Fenjves is my second cousin (mom's dad's brother's son's son)... even more famous than the Mayflower Madam, who was a cousin on my dad's side...

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 03:56 PM

I suggest that the judge sentence him to work with Paris Hilton curing drunken elephants in India. With luck we could get rid of both of them.

(PS: PH really IS going to work with drunken Indian elephants.)

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Slag
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 04:04 PM

Uh, yes yer Honor, I only brot the gun to the bank robbery to scare them into givin' me the money. No malice uh4thot there! Temporary BS.

The big difference in this trial (I hope) is that it's going to be in LV and not in LA (tra la, tra la!) If Little Beaver (aka, Bobby Blake) and Phil Sphincter beat their wraps as OJ did, no jury in LA county is ever going to convict any celeb of a crime. P. Hilton is so stupid. She should have gone to trial.

As far as athletes in college, when I attended Cal State University at Bakersfield ( quit yer snickerin') we had a great basketball team. During the season you'd see all these human skyscrapers ( I'm 6'2"+ and I felt puny by them) walking around campus. I never saw them in a classroom and when season was over I never saw them for the rest of the year. But they were college students, ya think?

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: kendall
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 04:25 PM

Now they say on MSNBC that it could take up to a year to bring him to trial! Justice delayed is justice denied. Witnesses die, or move away, memories grow dim.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 05:19 PM

Slag, It's the INTENT that's always been the issue. Whether you agree or not. There's no doubt, but that he did it. Temporary BS as you call it would've been his only defense had the prosecution charged him w/2nd instead of 1st. They'd have gotten either a conviction or a confession. And he WAS framed by Furman. Read the transcripts of the trial and the same of the interview w/Furman where he talks about 'chokin' out ...s' The big mistake was underestimating urban distrust of what is rightfully thought of as a corrupt criminal justice system. I'm not saying you're not right I'm saying you're not well informed enough to have an opinion that matters.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 05:27 PM

My apologies to the many football pros who have not commited murder, rape and/or dog torture combined or seperately.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Slag
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 02:12 AM

It's not that I'm not informed. It's just that I don't really care and I do want to make light of the whole deal. It was a miscairrage of justice. The prosecution fouled up royally. I don't believe Furman framed anybody. If he was going to frame OJ (who would surely have a highly scrutinized trial) he would have come up with a much better frame. After all, he was one of the smart one on the case.

I, my dog and everybody else except for 12 people in LA knew he was guilty of murder. What passes for premeditation in the mind of a psychopath? Brrrr!

So lighten up a little. There is no debate going on here. If one breaks out, I'll bow to your profound knowledge and involvement of this vitally important issue and move on to another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 08:49 AM

Fuhrman could not have planted the rest of the blood evidence, nor made the sound where the glove was found, at the time Kaelin heard it and mentioned it to his GF on the phone, consistent with the time OJ was seen skulking around to get back home for his flight.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 09:12 AM

I don't understand why this is even up to discuss. It's sorta like Brittney and Paris to me. I don't CARE and I'm sick of the arrogant monkeys playing for the cameras and media.

He's guilty as sin, knows it, and thinks he's going to get off one more time.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 12:39 PM

Is their any substance in the idea that his son did it and he did all that driving off on a motorway to divert attention?

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 01:39 PM

If the Rodney King riots had never happened OJ would have gone away the first time. LA was afraid of another riot over an OJ guilty verdict.

Is this to obvious to bring up?

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 02:16 PM

And the only 12 people's opinions in LA who mattered found him not guilty of 1st degree murder. Was/is he guilty of murder? Yes, no doubt. Just not 1st. And Mark Fuhrman had every opportunity to plant evidence on both OJ's residence and the vehicle. In the detective world it's known as 'sweetening'. You have an ironclad case and you just 'sweeten' the evidence pool to sew it up for a jury. Happens all the time. In the Vegas case there's no need to sweeten. OJ made sure of that this time by providing plenty of active particpants. He'll do time this time.

And Slag, it's all good. Sarcasm has it's place when genuine wit is out of reach.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 04:14 PM

"Sarcasm has its place when genuine wit is out of reach."

Oh, I like that. Great quote to remember. Note that the word "its" needs no apostrophe in that case...not that it matters much. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:23 AM

Is their any substance in the idea that his son did it and he did all that driving off on a motorway to divert attention?

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 09:36 AM

In which case he would still be guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, I presume?

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Slag
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 11:11 PM

"...OJ'[s at the five, the TEN! THE TWENTY,

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Slag
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 02:43 AM

...THE TWENTY-FIVE to LIFE!"

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 11:29 AM

"In which case he would still be guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, I presume?"

True enough. I have no axe to grind here and I guess many a conspiracy has been generated. I seem to remember that the glove from the scene did not fit him, it was far too small.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 12:25 PM

The famous glove could not be pulled onto his hand for a very simple reason. He was wearing a rubber glove on his hands already...those very thin transparent surgical rubber gloves that are worn to keep your hands clean in an operating room. That was a very clever move by his defence team, because you simply CANNOT pull a leather glove onto your hand when you are already wearing a surgical glove.

Try it.

It sticks like hell and will not pull onto your hand, despite the fact that it is your glove and would normally fit.

I'm serious. Try it. This very point was demonstrated on TV by a talk show host shortly after the famous trial incident. He demonstrated with his own leather glove...pulled it onto his hand without any problem....then put on a surgical glove...tried again to put on the leather glove...struggled and struggled with it...he could not get his hand inside that glove.

I saw the clip at the time, and it answered in the most clear and obvious way the question as to why OJ had trouble putting that glove on his hand.

Clever. That's what good lawyers are for...they're clever.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Slag
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 03:57 AM

Absolutely LH, not to mention that it looked crusty, i.e. that it had been wetted, either from dew or intentionally then dried in a stiff shape. And if the above were not so you can still make your fingers rigid and fake it that it would not fit. I tried all those scenarios and gee, guess what??? My own gloves wouldn't go on my hand...imagine that!

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 04:27 AM

How do you know he was wearing a rubber glove?

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 05:22 AM

"How do you know he was wearing a rubber glove?"

Because he had just given a complete rectal exam to Marcia Clark and Chris Darden.....or at least he had just shoved something up their asses.

If in this world there was ever a more inept prosecution, inept being the kindest I can be here, please tell me what and where. OJ didn't need "The Dream Team." Anyone could have gotten him off!

I watched this thing daily and I freely admit to being an OJ junkie. Why, I don't know. I never liked the guy even as a football player. And while I am sure the jury did hear things from outside, presented with ONLY what they were given in court they HAD to find him not guilty. The prosecution of this case was what was criminal.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 07:33 AM

It could plainly be seen in the telecast that he was wearing the rubber glove. I mean, hell, everyone in L.A. knew about it, because it was discussed on talk shows in the following days. I have no idea upon what excuse the defence had him put that rubber glove on, but the court did not question it to my knowledge. Perhaps the defence was contending that if his hand was not covered by the rubber glove, the prosecution could later find his DNA on the leather glove or some damn thing and pretend it was there before the trial, thus incriminating him...I don't know. All I know is, they got away with it. Pretty incredible negligence on the part of the judge, I'd call it.

Personally, I think a decision was made by the powers that be, to wit: They decided that Los Angeles could not afford another race riot. They felt that the only way to prevent one was to acquit OJ, and they made sure that would happen, any way possible. That's my theory. They let off a guilty murderer to avoid a race riot. It's called "breaking a few eggs to make an omelet". I think Stalin said that, didn't he?

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 09:01 AM

When forensic materials are handled in court, it is the usual practice for the handlers-- defense or prosecution, lawyers or expert witnesses-- to don a rubber glove first. It is more to protect the health of the handler (in this bloodborne-illness day and age) than to protect the evidence from contamination. Once the evidence is out of the sealed evidence bag, it is, theoretically, deemed contaminated and thus is considered beyond the original chain of custody which brings it to the court sealed, initialled, and provenance documented.

I wanted to tell Johnny Cochran-- "If it doesn't fit, he's faking it."

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 10:23 AM

Ah-ha! Thanks, Susan. Well, if anyone tries to put a snugly fitting leather glove (one of their own gloves, I mean) on over their hand when it already has a rubber glove on, they will discover that it's not easy. Not easy at all. It gets stuck on the rubber glove...not because of its thickness...but because of the nature of the rubber itself which causes the leather to bind.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Slag
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 09:15 PM

Little Hawk you raised, in a passing way, probably the most important single factor in OJ's acquittal; the ineptitude of Judge Ito. The "Dream Team" probably retreated to their lair and laughed their collective butt off. Easy money.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 07 - 09:24 PM

Yeah, I bet they did.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 06:33 PM

Convicted!

Yeah, I know-- appeals. Fine!

Happydance,

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: gnu
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 06:42 PM

Oh J!

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 06:44 PM

I wondered if a thread would turn up on this subject. The guy's a fool, that is clear. Like MacBeth, he doesn't lead a charmed life.

He got away with murder, but maybe Vegas is going to be able to kick his butt into prison for years and years.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 06:53 PM

The glove fits!

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: olddude
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 10:50 PM

It is finally about time, only took 13 years but payback is a bitch as they say

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 06:38 PM

Regardless of guilt or innocence on the murders, he should have known he would be watched very carefully from then on. And he'd best keep his nose clean.

To put it mildly, he didn't.

If he's guilty of nothing else--a highly debatable position--he sure as hell is guilty of terminal stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 02:39 AM

From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 04:14 PM

"Sarcasm has its place when genuine wit is out of reach."

Oh, I like that. Great quote to remember. Note that the word "its" needs no apostrophe in that case...not that it matters much. ;-)

Little hawk, I have another for you....

"It's not just a matter of taste, it's just a product of perception dysfunction"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh-q8RNLr3Q&feature=related

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 01:16 PM

" Mark Furman planted the glove found behind his house, no doubt"

Oh, sure...he found this bloody glove on the ground at the murder scene, picked it up, mentioned it to no one, secreted it on his person 'somehow', THEN got sent to OJ's place, not knowing whether OJ was even involved or even at home, THEN with prescient knowlege (or random guessing) declared he'd 'found' it, at exactly the place where Kato heard the noise.

Purty clever for even a racist......

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 04:11 PM

Furman moved to Montana and has, I think, managed to reclaim his good name. I think he writes or is a consultant.

Subject: RE: BS: OJ, OJ, OJ!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:48 PM

No, once again you're close, but not right...He lives in Idaho, near Cour D'Alene