BS: The perfect city would have....

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:34 PM

Lilyfestre, a roundabout or road island is a road junction, no set number of roads, but a circular island around which the traffic flows.
It has to be properly designed, size depending on the number of roads, and unrestricted visibility on the approaches.
They frighten the uninitiated, but they work well when you are used to them. Every entry is a judgement call, filtering into the on-island traffic. Oddly enough, there seem to be fewer accidents at roundabouts than traffic lights, because you have to be alert.

The crack about Americans was because our local traffic manager is one, highly qualified, too, and traffic lights are proliferating like buttercups. I hate waiting for an empty road, just because the light is on a cycle.

Roundabouts featured in a thread recently. Europeans pro, some Americans anti.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 04:37 AM

...at least a couple of good lighthouses.

I was going to nominate Portland Oregon and Portland Maine as most closely fitting everyone's description, but the Oregon Portland doesn't have lighthouses. Milwaukee could come close, but it has some crime and segregation problems. How many lighthouses does Wellington have?

-Joe, the lighthouse freak-

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Fossil
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 04:21 AM

Ah yes, the wind - the city is located right on the only sea-level gap in the NZ mountain chains which block the great westerly wind flow around the globe at these latitudes, so we do get our fair share of blows. Photos of Wellington tend to show pedestrians walking at an angle of 45 degrees to the pavement. And do not bring your umbrella here unless you are really good at hang-gliding. But we survive, and it gives people something to talk about.

Fly-fishing? Not in the city as such (although there is every variety of sea-fishing known to man within the city limits), but not far up the Hutt Valley (within 20 or so miles) you can fly-fish to your heart's content. And if you are up for it (personally, not to my taste) there's a big variety of other huntin', shootin' and horsin' venues within easy reach, not to mention walking trails, mountain bike trails, quad bike and 4WD trails and (much more my scene) yachting, sport aviation and surfing, too!

No other city I have ever visited comes close....

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 09:02 PM

Is a roundabout the same as a rotary? A circular part of the road with at least 4 roads, 2 coming on and 2 going off?

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Gurney
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 08:48 PM

Fossil forgot to mention the wind, oh, the wind.

The perfect city would have lots of work available, roundabouts instead of traffic lights (so by elimination, a non-American traffic manager), and severe penalties for persistent lawbreakers.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 08:26 PM

Hey Fossil,

   How's the fly fishing? We might just have to move!

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:53 PM

...a football team that wouldn't choke in the pinch...


Amos-in-San-Diego...

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Fossil
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:48 PM

Yes, LilyFestre, you're *still* talking about Wellington!

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 05:36 PM

In addition to the above, the perfect city would have an abundance of yoga studios, farmer's markets and year round kayaking....and hey, if we're dreaming big, why not add water trails? And a bird sanctuary? And the ocean would be easily accessible to all and never crowded.....

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: open mike
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:13 AM

would not be a city at all.
unless living arrangements were planned for the efficient use of all
as in co-housing...where sharing is encouaged, and connecting with your neighbors was expected, and applauded. Where it would be more of an eco-village. see http://www.co-housing.org

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Fossil
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 03:03 AM

....The name Wellington, New Zealand. Seriously. All the above, especially sea, hills, culture, music, decent restaurants, honest police, churches, folkies, music shops, parks, bars and brothels are all here. Absolutely, positively...

And where else can you sit in the main airport and watch people surfing?

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 08:42 PM

A beer hall with a garden & an oompah band (but no speeches).

The Moon Under Water.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 07:16 PM

Sounds remarkably like New York. But I don't want to live there.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Gulliver
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 10:29 PM

I'd find it difficult to get by without a few drugs and a flash of thigh--it may not be PC, or ethical, or moral, but it's what makes life worth living for me ...

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 08:59 PM

Or smart handsome fellows! Let's be fair in this perfect town!

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Amergin
Date: 17 Jan 08 - 01:31 AM

a nice pub on every other block with lots of good music and great beer...all served by pretty girls.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 08:28 PM

The perfect city would have...

strip clubs and churches living in perfect harmony next door to one another.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Padre
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 08:07 PM

A sushi bar (but no Benihana)
An Ethiopian restaurant
A Thai restaurant
A good library
A good independent bookstore [no B&N]
A store with at least 25 varieties of single malt scotch
A Brooks Brothers or J.Press clothing store

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 07:37 PM

Now let's see, what do we have here in Colorado Springs ...

In the mid or late 1980s, as I recall, friends living in Colorado Springs reported that the "town pimp" who ran on the platform "I run most of of the girls, I might as well run the whole town" lost the election for mayor by about a dozen votes.

The vote to "legalize prostitution" was defeated by a similarly narrow margin.

The town thus does have some "cultural traditions" that some people might find quite pleasing, but local business, politics, and traditions are very strongly influenced by the presence quite close-by of that "Center of Culture" commonly known as the "US Air Force Academy."

The same friends, among others, reported rather stringent restrictions on community expansion due to "barely adequate" water resources and overtaxed sewage disposal capacity. These seem to be quite common problems in communities along the "frontline" of the mountain range, and extending for some distance out eastward into the "high plains." (Water resources are limited for quite a long ways "out front.")

While it's actually a quite pleasant place, the somewhat unique situation there suggests that when "idealizing" some significant consideration should be given to what natural resources are needed, and also to what "cultural resources" should be "close enough" but with sufficient separation to limit "intrusion" into local affairs.

John

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: bobad
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 06:51 PM

I love the picture this song paints, it is one of my most favorite songs.


Artist: Dement Iris
Song: Our Town
Album: Infamous Angel
        

And you know the sun's settin' fast,
And just like they say, nothing good ever lasts.
Well, go on now and kiss it goodbye,
But hold on to your lover,
'Cause your heart's bound to die.
Go on now and say goodbye to our town, to our town.
Can't you see the sun's settin' down on our town, on our town,
Goodnight.

Up the street beside that red neon light,
That's where I met my baby on one hot summer night.
He was the tender and I ordered a beer,
It's been forty years and I'm still sitting here.

But you know the sun's settin' fast,
And just like they say, nothing good ever lasts.
Well, go on now and kiss it goodbye,
But hold on to your lover,
'Cause your heart's bound to die.
Go on now and say goodbye to our town, to our town.
Can't you see the sun's settin' down on our town, on our town,
Goodnight.

It's here I had my babies and I had my first kiss.
I've walked down Main Street in the cold morning mist.
Over there is where I bought my first car.
It turned over once but then it never went far.

And I can see the sun's settin' fast,
And just like they say, nothing good ever lasts.
Well, go on now and kiss it goodbye,
But hold on to your lover,
'Cause your heart's bound to die.
Go on now and say goodbye to our town, to our town.
Can't you see the sun's settin' down on our town, on our town,
Goodnight.

I buried my Mama and I buried my Pa.
They sleep up the street beside that pretty brick wall.
I bring them flowers about every day,
but I just gotta cry when I think what they'd say.

If they could see how the sun's settin' fast,
And just like they say, nothing good ever lasts.
Well, go on now and kiss it goodbye,
But hold on to your lover,
'Cause your heart's bound to die.
Go on now and say goodbye to our town, to our town.
Can't you see the sun's settin' down on our town, on our town,
Goodnight.

Now I sit on the porch and watch the lightning-bugs fly.
But I can't see too good, I got tears in my eyes.
I'm leaving tomorrow but I don't wanna go.
I love you, my town, you'll always live in my soul.

But I can see the sun's settin' fast,
And just like they say, nothing good ever lasts.
Well, go on, I gotta kiss you goodbye,
But I'll hold to my lover,
'Cause my heart's 'bout to die.
Go on now and say goodbye to my town, to my town.
I can see the sun has gone down on my town, on my town,
Goodnight.
Goodnight.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: topical tom
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 06:00 PM

...a perfect little town nearby with lots of green space, tranquillity and the essentials of life.(I don't like cities in general though, I admit, it's nice to be near one.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: mg
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 04:43 PM

A public health nursing system and a series of sliding scale fee clinics.

Nice playgrounds for kids to play on.

Enforce rule on spitting on sidewalks. (WHoever thinks Seattle is a great place must be casual about this..)

Lots of trees especially in urban blight areas.

Yes, public bathrooms, male, female and some unisex but they must probably have attendants and/or security these days.

No tolerance for drugs.

Community service with teeth in it for criminals.

Good lighting, especially in areas with crime problems.

No flourescent lights (at least the old nasty ones) in public buildings like libraries, city hall etc.

On the bandwagon with solar and wind energy, incentives for alternative energy in new or retrofit construction.

Way less building out of wood. Penalties for building out of wood in places that have hurricane and flood high potential. And fire.

24 hour a day places like Safeway, Starbucks, etc.

Clean and decent public terminals for trains, busses..again, have you seen the Amtrack filthy mess in Seattle or Greyhound? Awful awful awful.

City or state run shelters for single women and single men, basic, dormitory style if necessary. Nicer ones where children are involved. Places homeless can go to get food. High security and segration by type of problem...alcoholics go in one, drug addicts in another, mentally ill in another with staff that would handle their needs and protect others from them and them from each other if necessary. mg

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 02:54 PM

My favouritte towns have:-

nice clean public toilets - if you can't have a civilised wee, its not much of a place
a river where you can see the fishes swimming past
a good newsagent
a diversity of restaurants
a bookshop
at least one folk club, but three would be better (in pubs naturally)
some other performance venues, art galleries, etc
a cinema accessible for disabled people
local delicacies
a coffee bar - a proper one

some other stuff

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 02:35 PM

Portland, Maine comes pretty darned close...

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 01:26 PM

Sports wise - Friday night high school football and a minor league Baseball team would suit me just fine.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Bert
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 11:29 AM

Now let's see, what do we have here in Colorado Springs.

FOR
A reasonable Library
an Art's center, or two if you include Manitou Springs.
A few theatres
A view of Pikes Peak
several farmers markets in season
a whole load of thrift stores - which is a must for any town.
Way too many Mexican Restaurants
A couple of Indian restaurants and quite a few others of differring cuisines - Except English unfortunately.
A good song writers club
Lots of sunshine and blue skies
plenty of snow in winter.
A couple of good Music stores plus a couple of big ones
An observatory at the Airforce Academy


AGAINST

loads of poles and potholes
The sea is half a continent away
Just way too many military personnel - individually they are fine but the sheer numbers really play hell with the crime rate.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 11:21 AM

We had a ruling in this bit of east London that if your new construction involved the removal of well established trees, you had to include planting of an equal or greater number of trees in your plans.

Shame no-one has actually enforced this over the last 10 years, we've lost many beautiful trees from our public spaces and streets.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: mack/misophist
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 10:10 AM

One thing every one else missed is a Building Commissioner who doesn't routinely hand out exemptions to the "all new construction must include parking" law the voters passed.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: clueless don
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 09:46 AM

I don't honestly know how I would answer this question today. But I recall thinking about it back when I was in my early twenties, and I concluded that a city needed

a McDonalds,
a bowling alley, and
a miniature golf course.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 07:40 AM

Well Wes, you have pretty much got Brisbane - for the majority...

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 04:19 AM

Oops, a bit fell out...

Communism, in theory, is the perfect way of life - to each according to his needs, from each according to his means - and look how that turned out!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 04:15 AM

Well, it all sounds very nice, but it would never work.   Communism, in theory, is the perfect way of life - to each according to his needs, from each according to his means. The sort of Utopias we're describing above are perfect in theory, but already the thread has descended into squabbling and disagreement before we've dug the first foundation.

Trouble is, we're all humans and the basic human instincts are for the survival and procreation of our own DNA. We all feel that our own needs and rights are the most important - no matter how much we do or give to charities, when it comes to the wire, very few people would actually donate to their own detriment.   We live in a solispsist society, one that seems hell bent on producing generations of people who live only for themselves.

When you build a perfect city, you have to people it with perfect humans, and there was only one of those.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 04:12 AM

The perfect City would have....



A decent striker.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: open mike
Date: 16 Jan 08 - 03:44 AM

Check out the book Ecotopia by Ernest Callenbach..
this describes the ideal organic peaceful pollution free society.

It is based on an idea that washington, oregon and northern calif.
succeed (sp?) from the "union" to form an ecological new society.

" Ecotopia was founded when northern California, Oregon, and Washington seceded from the Union to create a " stable-state" ecosystem: the perfect balance ..."

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 10:43 PM

The best fit I know anything about is Portland OR
Some notable features:
Saturday Market
Powell's Books
Mount Hood is visible from there, and the ocean is about an hour away.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 10:15 PM

Well, I am not British; I have been a goddamn Yankee all my life. But I am biased against Ugly Poles, and also Ugly Butts. But purely on aesthetic grounds! :D



A

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:49 PM



Yeah, I guess I'm a smoking Nazi - if it's appropriate to call anyone who disagrees strongly with you on any given issue a "Nazi" on that issue - I suppose then I could call devout believers in any conventional religion "Church Nazis" by the same logic, huh?

I hear all the arguments that a restaurant, bar, pub, whatever should be allowed to set its own smoking policy. True, customers don't have to go in if they don't want to. But employees do. And if you try to say, we can only hire you if you don't mind second-hand smoke, some will be compelled to lie about it because they need the work.

And if you smoke in a private home with kids in it, you start the kids out with all sorts of health issues that might easily be avoided.

And if people in their workplaces go outside to smoke, the streets stink and the sidewalks end up an inch deep in butts. Maybe smokers can't help giving off second-hand smoke, BUT THEY CAN DAMN WELL HELP BEING SLOBS!



Oh, and Amos, the line about poles was intended as a joke. I forgot you were British.


Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Skivee
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:41 PM

Observatories and public science centers.
Sport organizations, but no big-ass money gobbling team.
Communal gardens
A societal ethic that promotes both collective and individual developement
No BROADCASTS OF "CLASSIC TREK"...EVER.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:29 PM

Bobert is a Capitalist who grinds the downtrodden worker under his iron heel.

But he's not a Republican!

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:26 PM

Peter:

You are a smoking Nazi, I take it?

I meant the sort of ugly poles that are used to hold up cables in many suburbs.


And I would add to the list:

City-wide broadband wireless internet access.

Optical fiber to the curb.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:16 PM

A city council and mayor that knew how to listen.
Ditto for the police force

Good f***ing luck! You're really into sheer fantasy here.

An absence of "smoking Nazis" who insist that ALL PLACES OF BUSINESS must be smoke free would be nice.

I would vote for a great plenty of them. And make every place, indoors and out, smoke free except certain underground chambers set aside for smokers, with no ventilation at all.

Amos, what's this about "...no poles..."? I don't think ethnic discrimination would be appropriate.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:56 PM

Yes, bobad, I am a somewhat under capitalized capitalist but a capitalist none the less... Not by choice, mind you, but by circumsatnce...

The things that Amos has just listed are all possible under the the general "LWP" formula...

I believe when we get back to the "LWP" concept we will, as a fringe benefit, find that the qulaity of all of our lives will be better, that crime will decrease dranaticly, that homelessness will decrease and that the concept of "community" will take over where "me-me-me" left off...

This is the way our future will look...

Live, work, play (LWP)...

Get the concept now 'cause it's our future reality...

But don't belive me... Go buy a tank full of gasoline... Then come back and reread what I have suggested...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:36 PM

If you mean "ideal":

Fresh air and open spaces
A viable infra structure (drains, pipes and cables, streets, roads and bridges)
Renewable energy sources
Buried utilities (no poles)
Lots of pedestrian ways and areas, parks and forests
Public transport that was fast, inoffensive and reliable and covered the whole city.
Large reliable supplies of water.
Plenty of sunshine.
A moderate climate.
A low crime rate.
Affordable houses.
Thriving industries which minimize pollution and recycle.
A huge recycling system. Ideally one that could completely recover basic chemicals from trash.
A cultural tradition of fine music and good drama and art.
An independent arts and music sector where breakthroughs, folk music, and experimental theater could occur.
A liberal and compassionate policy toward the homeless.
An adequate, honest, police force.
Plentiful local markets with locally grown fruits, vegetables and other foods.
A town-hall system or similar for making the wishes of the populace heard.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:27 PM

Bobert, I'm shocked, you're... gasp.....a capitalist.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 08:18 PM

Okay, I had to get the "beer" thing outta the way...

On the more sober side of the what a "perfect city" would have is a full spectrum of the various entities needed to fulfill the basics which are "work, live and play"... But with energy costs rising this is also the formula for small towns or even buildings...

Let me explain... I first became familiar with the WLP (work, live, play) concept about 10 years ago and it holds true... This is what people need and it doesn't ***have*** to involve getting in a c ar and going elsewhere...

So when I was looking for the right investment I found a 180 year old hotel and thought, "Hey, this could be a "WLP" building and so I have been working toward turning it into just that with the entire 1st floor being built out as a mini-mall but with a resturant and the 2nd floor as apartments... The entire idea of "WLP" can potentially be found under one roof...

Yeah I understand that this is about as micro-managed as one can find for the "WLP" concept but it does illustrate just how we really need to look at how the future will look and this, IMHO, is the way it will look...

So the perfect city isn't going to be the city that has "everything" but it will be a city that enough ammenities to satisfy the "WLP" concept that one day we will all understand is the only way to live in a world where resources are limited... And we will all be better for it...

End of serious posting for tonight...

Think I'll go crack a cold beer...

This stuff hurts my head...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Beer
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 07:57 PM

And no cars.
Ber (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 07:13 PM

A red light district.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 07:01 PM

I'm going with Bobert. Given enough beer, anyplace is fine with me!

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 06:57 PM

*grin*..well, Bobert, many years ago, my EX-wife went to visit a friend in a sort of 'commune' in New Mexico. One day she was in the teeny town nearby, and one of the locals noticed she was a stranger.
   She nodded and said she was visiting the little commune outside of town.
"Oh, yeah...those Heepies. They are wierd, man....they even let their weemin have cold beer!"

It seems ice was reserved for men.

Subject: RE: BS: The perfect city would have....
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jan 08 - 06:28 PM

...beer...

(((burp)))

(Be serious, Bobert!!!)

Okay...






























...cold beer...