BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes

Subject: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 08:20 PM

It will all be over in 3 minutes - so the US Navy says.

At first, I thought they meant WWIII, but then I remembered, that funnily enough, that's what my last girlfriend said... send flowers if you want...

And just like me, they've only got enough for three shots, so it's three strikes, you're out... on the street I suppose...

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 09:07 PM

Yeah, they're wondering if the weather will prevent the shot(s). If the US's missile defense system only works in good weather we've spent an awful lot of money for not much of anything.

What's the name of the missile? The "Sunshine Patriot"?

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 10:01 PM

The US Air Force does not have a tactical support airplane that is considered an "all weather" machine.

John

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 10:38 PM

Why am I unsurprised to learn that?

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 10:48 PM

Nor me? So, is it dead yet? Raining little pieces of crap? Or did we miss?

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: John O'L
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:44 PM

Is there anyone else besides me who doesn't even know what this thread's even about?

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Beer
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:50 PM

U.S. using their star war technology to shoot down one of their own spy satellites.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: freightdawg
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:52 PM

MSNBC is reporting a hit.

Rapaire makes an astute comment. Whether you agree with the idea or not, how in the world can you defend a system that only works in good weather?

"Pardon me sir, but please don't attack tomorrow. The NWS is calling for drizzle."

My question is why blow a billion little pieces of metal into low earth orbit, when any one of those little pieces of metal might fatally damage some orbital craft some day in the future? The whole thing is just a little too suspicious to me.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 12:57 AM

From the New York Times

Officials cautioned that while early information indicated that the interceptor's "kill vehicle" had hit the satellite, it would be 24 hours before it could be determined whether the fuel tank with 1,000 pounds of toxic hydrazine had been destroyed as planned.

Do they really expect us to believe that the fuel is the reason they shot this down? Gollll-ly, but they must think we're gullible.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 03:34 AM

It'll be All Over in 3 minutes!
Wasn't that what Bill Clinton told Monica Lewinsky?
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 03:38 AM

There but for an error in tense, goes the story of my life.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 03:57 AM

The official story is that since the satellite lost contact and power immediately after launch, the hydrazine fuel will be frozen quite solid. The frozen fuel will actually support the tank so that it is unlikely to break up of it's own accord during reentry. If the "satellite killer" can even break the skin of the tank, quite likely the hydrazine will "vent" during reentry, allowing the tank to collapse and break up, and the hydrazine should disperse enough to present a "lesser hazard."

If that much hydrazine hit the earth in one spot, it could be a very real hazard to anyone who happened into the area. Impact would probably shatter the tank, but wouldn't necessarily disperse the fuel.

At the reported current altitude, there should be sufficient aerodynamic drag on any parts kicked loose to cause them to fall fairly quickly into the atmosphere where they'll either burn up or fall harmlessly, landing only on some few scattered unsuspecting critters.

So ... it's a good story, and they'd best stick to it until they can think up a better one.

Some stories we could think up could probably make for better songs, but guessing right about the real story might put a composer on "a list." Under current conditions, that shouldn't be much of a concern, since "they" won't tell you that "you've been listed" ... ... ... even at your trial.

John

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 07:12 AM

We're FEMA and we're here to help

Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:07 PM PT
Filed Under: Espionage
By Robert Windrem and Dan Linden

If the sky is falling, FEMA is prepared to catch it.
That's the message tonight from FEMA-the agency made famous by its anemic response to Hurricane Katrina-to the threat posed by a spy satellite that could soon come crashing to earth.

FEMA has produced a memo and 18-page guide, a "First Responder Guide for Space Object Re-Entry," that have been sent to thousands of local police, fire and emergency service agencies around the country. It also has helpful hints for the public.

FEMA also has placed six "Federal Joint Interagency Task Forces" on alert in FEMA regions, ready to be deployed, just in case, according to the FEMA memo. A "Consequence Management Group" has been assembled at the Department of Homeland Security's National Operations Center in Washington to manage the crisis, the memo adds.

There will be real-time contact with the Pentagon tonight during a planned shoot down of the spy satellite, and even a FEMA representative at the DoD operations center, a FEMA spokesman says.

So why is FEMA even involved, at taxpayer expense? ...

[More at the link, if you can quit laughing.]

John

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 08:14 AM

"Is there anyone else besides me who doesn't even know what this thread's even about?"

Me probably... funny how everyones seems to think I was talking about some sattellite...

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:43 AM

Well, I assumed you were since every time a satellite falls down it seems to hit Canada if it's Russian or Australia if it's US.

Canada and Australia -- space junkyards of planet Earth!

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:44 AM

FEMA is prepared to catch it? They couldn't catch the Clap if everyone had it!

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 01:06 PM

" they're wondering if the weather will prevent the shot(s). If the US's missile defense system only works in good weather we've spent an awful lot of money for not much of anything." - Rapaire

Oh I dare say that US's missile defense system will work in any weather. What weather consideration would prevent the launch is the ability to fully monitor the results of the firing in order to gauge whether or not the strike had done the kob it was supposed to do.

"The US Air Force does not have a tactical support airplane that is considered an "all weather" machine." - John in Kansas

Oh I dare say that the US Air Force have aircraft that can fly in any weather. Now as the aircraft is only the weapons platform what they might be admitting is that they do not have a tactical support aircraft that can perform its designed function in all weathers, i.e. there might be certain weather conditions that render its weapons systems performance less than optimal.

"Rapaire makes an astute comment. Whether you agree with the idea or not, how in the world can you defend a system that only works in good weather?" - Freightdawg

Who says it only works in good weather - so far only someone possibly jumping to the wrong conclusion and guessing.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 01:16 PM

"The missile hit the satellite about three minutes after launch as the spacecraft, roughly the size of a school bus, traveled in polar orbit at more than 17,000 mph."

It really doesn't say much about it all, though. The satellite wasn't taking any evasive action. Mathematics at work I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 03:40 PM

The reports broadcast by CNN stated that they believed that the satellite was hit in the fuel tank area and that judging by the vapour plum observed the fuel had exploded. The estimate was that the satelite is now in bits, the next 24 hours will confirm whether they are correct in their evaluation.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 03:51 PM

The commitee decided that it was best to disperse the plutonium fuel rather than have it possibly fall into terrorist hands should it arrive fairly intact.






you won't read that anywhere but here.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Michael
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 03:52 PM

Teribus; I'm not being picky, honest but I DO like the idea of a Vapour Plum, like a Victoria only lighter?

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 04:59 PM

Teribus, I took my information from press releases from the US Navy. The idea that our missile defenses only work in good weather was a logical conclusion.

However...having been in the US Armed Forces and having relatives currently serving therein, relatives with whom I talk on a not-infrequent basis, I can assure you that most US weapons systems are reliable in all weathers if they are properly maintained. For example, the M-16 rifle frequently jammed and became so dirty that it was inoperable during the Vietnam War. This was because the US Army Ordnance people insisted upon using rod-shaped powder, such as was used in the M-14 rifle, instead of the ball-shaped powder the M-16 was designed to use. When this was corrected the weapon functioned, and still functions, quite reliably.

A much earlier example was the US Navy's "Great Torpedo Scandal" of WW2.

...The scandal was not that there were problems in what was then a relatively new weapon, but rather the refusal by the ordnance establishment to verify the problems quickly and make appropriate alterations. The fact that after twenty five years of service the Mk.10 had newly discovered depth control problems adds weight to the characterization of the collection of problems and responses as a scandal. These comments should, however, be mitigated a little by the fact that each of the Mk.14 problems obscured the next. Although BuOrd did not identify the final problem, contact exploder malfunction when a torpedo running at high speed struck the target at ninety degrees, their response, once the difficulty had been identified, was notably prompt. In spite of the promptness of BuOrd's response, by the time it reached Pearl Harbor a number of relatively simple solutions to the problem had been proposed, and modifications had already been designed and implemented. This was, however, almost two years after the United States entered WW II.

People die because of things like that, sometimes horribly and as the songs says, obscenely.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 01:10 AM

Rapaire, in my time in the Royal Navy I have been present and taken part in:

- The test firing and trials of both surface-to-air and sub-surface weapons/weapons systems.

- Ship commissioning work-ups were weapons system calibrations are undertaken which obviously involve firing the weapons.

- Live fire exercises.

In all the above the governing factor was good weather, we knew perfectly well that the systems would work in any weather, what you needed in the instances outlined above was visual reference to confirm that they worked, particularly with SA weapons as they do not solely rely on direct hits but on what they call TTB's (Target Triggered Bursts). The conclusion you jumped to was not logical at all.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 10:19 AM

But back to the threas -

Bad sex?

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Peace
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 10:20 AM

The Patriot: Was that the missile they used?

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 12:03 PM

Rapaire,

The missle used was designed for anti-MISSILE use. the fact that the satellite was significantly higher ( and faster) than a ballistic missile might have had some impact on the idea that the weather might matter.

As for the target not maneuvering, a ballistic missile ( the designed for target of the anti-missile) has rather limited ability to change trajectory, if it is going to hit the desired target.

As of now ( counting this) the US Navy has a 13 out of 15 success rate in hitting the target with an anti-missile. And those others were tests, with experimental ( ie, not production) missiles.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 04:27 AM

Mrzzy - if it incluldes the time to eat the pizza, I'd say so...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 09:47 AM

They hit it, or at least the hydrazine tank.

Folks, I remember too damned much in the way of technology failing. Like the early F-111s, where in a dive the fold-back wings were found to fold way, way back -- like off the plane. Or the Navy's attempt to launch the Vanguard satellite. Or any one of a number of other things.

Teribus, this missile was launched from a surface ship. And I think that the US Navy's subs should have and should be the primary launch platform for ICBMs, not the ground-based silos of the USAF. Subs would have a better survival rate in a nuclear war. But mine was not to decide....

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Feb 08 - 09:55 AM

Future orbital flights and satillite insertion is becoming exponentialy problematic with the sheer volume of space junk that can zip through metal at 20,000 mph.

We have a high velocity garbage dump up there that reflects the military mindset of leave it, blow it up and forget about it.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:32 AM

I've been told blue pills will help.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Louie Roy
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 01:43 PM

When I first saw this thread I thought it was referring to the whore houses in Honolulu during WW2

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Rowan
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 10:40 PM

There but for an error in tense, goes the story of my life.

Are you sure, Liz, you didn't mean
There but for an error intense, goes the story of my life ?

Either way, you have my sympathy. And understanding.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 10:35 AM

Rapaire,

The US has three means of launching a nuclear strike at any would be aggressor:

- Land based ICBM's from static hardened launch silos.

- A fleet of SSBN's of which there are a certain number operational and on patrol at any given time.

- Conventional aircraft.

The least vulnerable of those as you say are the SSBN's

The USSR also had multiple launch vehicles, all are still available to the present day Russian Federation:

- Land based ICBM's in static silos

- Land based ICBM's on mobile launchers

- Their own fleet of SSBN's

- Conventional aircraft

Of those the ones that worried the US and NATO countries during the "Cold War" were the SS-20's - the land based mobile launchers. The Russian SSBN's are the largest in the world, they are also amongst the easiest to detect. Their options for deployment are severely restricted and they would have to leave that vital sanctuary in order to fire their missiles, so during that part of their attack they become vulnerable.

The USA has got what appears to be an anti-missile missile system, the Russians/Chinese do not.

It must be very heartening for those who have worked on the SDI missile programme that in the latest "test", their anti-missile missile performed so well against the sort of target it was never designed to destroy (too high, too fast, too large). They must be further assured that the anti-missile missile launch platform was one of the US Navy's Aegis Cruisers, which means that the US can put this system in place anywhere it wants in the world at fairly short notice.

This thread was raised to have a bit of a laugh at the US Forces and their equipment - one thing's for certain, the Russians, the Chinese and possibly the Iranians and North Koreans won't be laughing.

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: GUEST,Anonymus in Blind River
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 02:04 PM

3 minutes? Flip that! I was with Shane McBride one time when I had a serious flippin' lapse of judgement, probably due to too much alcohol...and you know who long it lasted?

One minute and 22 seconds! I know, cos I was watchin' the clock beside my bed.

Worst flip I ever had.

Sign me - "Anonymus in Blind River"

Subject: RE: BS: It will all be over in 3 minutes
From: open mike
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 06:21 PM

"It will all be over in 3 minutes"
yeah, I had a boyfriend like that once.