Scarborough Fair

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: Lighter
Date: 07 May 15 - 12:39 PM

There are undeniable similarities between "SF" and "FLW." "Cod Liver Oil" sounds rather less closely related.

Lloyd used a version of that tune for "Paddy and the Whale."

But couldn't MacColl have created the "FLW" tune on the basis of an authentic "SF" rather than the other way round?

In any case, the inability of anyone to connect Anderson to the ballad before its appearance in "Singing Island" is curious.

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 07 May 15 - 05:34 PM

Doesn't Peggy Seeger say that EM would often find a good tune then change one note at a time 'til he had a new one?

idk, yes, Cod Liver Oil is quite different but I like them together in an odd way.
I put the 4 combinations here
SF FLW / SF CLO / FLW CLO / SF + FLW + CLO

Scarborough Fair v Four Loom Weaver v Cod Liver Oil
I don't understand these things... to get them to play on the WindowsMediaPlayer it needed
a single click > download > open


Is there a better place to leave files than google.drive ?

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: Lighter
Date: 07 May 15 - 08:11 PM

MacColl performs "Scarborough Fair" with Peggy Seeger in 1957:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9bpUK1Lx0k

Does anyone know what the liner notes said?

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 07 May 15 - 09:30 PM

Thanks Lighter
and I'd not heard
Peggy Seeger - Cambric Shirt before.

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: Lighter
Date: 08 May 15 - 08:35 AM

On "English Folk Songs" (Folkways FP 917), Audrey Coppard sings a version of the MacColl "Scarborough Fair" which she apparently learned directly from him. (The notes say she is "indebted" to Lloyd and MacColl for several of her songs.) No earlier source is mentioned.

Coppard's tune is identical to that in "The Singing Island," but for two or three trivial differences, but the after stanza one the text consists of the woman's challenges only and the lyrics are a bit different. The differences are, first, each stanza begins "Tell him to" rather than "O, will you"; second, the final couplet is:

When he has done these things without fail...
He can come and claim me for himself.

The ability to rhyme "fail" with "himself" is Scottish. Does it happen in Yorkshire too?

The album is copyright 1955. It suggests the likelihood that however MacColl's version may have originated, he added the man's lines in time for his 1957 recording linked above.

Here's an ultra-romantic recent performance by Hayley Westenra: surely Celtic Woman at their best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI_TV32jmHc

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: Lighter
Date: 08 May 15 - 08:39 AM

Though no specific source is given, Coppard does place the song in "Yorkshire," home of Mark Anderson.

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 09 May 15 - 07:05 PM

?? I stand to be corrected but I think the tune on
http://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=5197 is different from the one on YouTube mentioned above
From: Lighter - Date: 07 May 15 - 08:11 PM
MacColl performs "Scarborough Fair" with Peggy Seeger in 1957:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9bpUK1Lx0k

Has someone uploaded a different track?

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: Lighter
Date: 09 May 15 - 07:18 PM

The DigiTrad tune is clearly a variant, but, no, it isn't quite MacColl's tune. It may have been altered by "oral tradition" since it began making the rounds in the '50s or '60s.

The tune MacColl sings on "Matching Songs" is that attributed in "The Singing Island" to Mark Anderson.

Except for barely audible differences, that is also the tune Coppard used.

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 06:53 AM

Soul Music - Scarborough Fair will be repeated on BBC Radio 4 at 3.30pm on Saturday 20 June 2015.

"It can change or stay the same. And the more it changes, the more it stays the same" - Martin Carthy

With expert contribution from Sandra Kerr, musician and lecturer at Newcastle University School of Arts and Culture.

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: Mark Ross
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 02:12 PM

On a recently posted video of our old (and late lamented) friend Art Thieme, he says that he wanted to be back in 1953 to start the ultimate folk group; Elvis Presley, Patti Page, Rosemary Clooney, and himself. Presley, Page, Rosemary, and Thieme.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Scarborough Fair
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 02:50 AM

There is an intriguing alternative - with Danny La Rue;

Rue, Presley, Rosemary and Thieme