BS: rigging the vote...

Subject: BS: rigging the vote...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 11:19 AM

You have been told repeatedly about cut and paste thread starters and postings. LINK the piece and post a short amount from it to get the idea. Feel free to then post your own ideas or thoughts. Cut and Pastes like this will result in deletions.

Voting's Neglected Scandal


By David S. Broder
Thursday, June 26, 2008; Page A19

When Barack Obama decided last week to throw off the constraints on campaign spending that go with the acceptance of public financing, he was rightly criticized for rigging the system in his favor.

That was a predictable response. For the better part of four decades, the media and public interest groups have focused on campaign spending as the most serious distorting force in our elections.

Meanwhile, they have paid much less attention to what may well be a larger problem: the way that district lines are drawn to create safe seats for one party or the other, in effect denying voters any choice of representation.

It is not a new problem. The original gerrymander was a creation of 18th-century Massachusetts, and since then, politicians have been using ever more sophisticated tools to rig the game. With computer technology, their ability to design districts that meet the legal requirement for equal population while guaranteeing their fellow partisans easy passage into office has never been greater.

In 2002 and 2006, the most recent off-year elections, about nine out of 10 congressional districts were won by more than 10 percentage points -- a clear sign that the game had been rigged when the lines were drawn in the state legislatures. In the first of those years, only eight incumbents lost; in the second, only 21.

As scholars have pointed out, the scarcity of real competition in nearly all districts has many consequences -- all of them bad. It makes legislators less responsive to public opinion, since they are in effect safe from challenge in November. It shifts the competition from the general election to the primary, where candidates of more extreme views can hope to attract support from passionately ideological voters and exploit the low turnouts typical of those primaries.

Gerrymandered, one-party districts tend to send highly partisan representatives to the House or the legislature, contributing to the gridlock in government that is so distasteful to voters.

These are familiar complaints in academic and journalistic circles. And this week, another count was added to the indictment with a report from the Democratic Leadership Council titled "Gerrymandering the Vote."

It makes the point that these rigged districts have the effect of suppressing the vote.

The numbers are startling. In both 2002 and 2006, voter turnout in districts where the winner received at least 80 percent of the votes struggled to reach 125,000. Turnout in the districts where the margin was 20 percent or less exceeded 200,000.

If there were some other device that was reducing voter turnout by almost 40 percent, you could be sure it would be the chief target for reformers. The ballot anomalies and the "voter suppression" tactics that marked the Florida election of 2000 affected far fewer people than that.

The study by the DLC's Marc Dunkelman found big variations among the states in the competitiveness of their House districts. The average margin in Massachusetts in 2006 was almost 75 percent. Next door in New Hampshire, it was under 5 percent.

Dunkelman calculated the potential turnout increase for individual states, if their district lines were redrawn to emphasize competitiveness. The gains ranged as high as 59 percent for Louisiana and 49 percent for New York. Other states that could experience much higher participation with redrawn districts include West Virginia, Virginia, California, North Carolina, Alabama, New Jersey, Mississippi, Georgia, Hawaii and New Mexico.

Dunkelman estimates that competitive districts might attract 3 million more voters in California and almost 2 million more in New York. Overall, 11 million more Americans might show up at the polls, decreasing our chronically low voting participation rates.

How to change the lines? Two states -- Iowa and Washington -- have instituted nonpartisan or bipartisan redistricting systems, and they have been rewarded with much more competitive House races. So it can be done.

But the politicians are unlikely to do it on their own. Only if the voters demand reform is there a chance it will come.

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 12:46 PM

beardedbrucce, are you limning the governing statement: "Meanwhile, they have paid much less attention to what may well be a larger problem: the way that district lines are drawn to create safe seats for one party or the other, in effect denying voters any choice of representation."

Or are you arguing that Obama's choosing public fundraising rather than using the presidential pool is the scandal?

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 01:16 PM

What I consider the significant portion- but it does not stand alone, without the support of the entire article.




"Meanwhile, they have paid much less attention to what may well be a larger problem: the way that district lines are drawn to create safe seats for one party or the other, in effect denying voters any choice of representation.
...

As scholars have pointed out, the scarcity of real competition in nearly all districts has many consequences -- all of them bad. It makes legislators less responsive to public opinion, since they are in effect safe from challenge in November. It shifts the competition from the general election to the primary, where candidates of more extreme views can hope to attract support from passionately ideological voters and exploit the low turnouts typical of those primaries. "


As a non-Democrat in PG county, MD, I might as well not even bother voting.

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 08:08 PM

You didn't hear the republicans complaining back when they had all the money. They fought public financing tooth and nail.

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 08:44 PM

As a non-Democrat in PG county, MD, I might as well not even bother voting.

As a Democrat living in Santa Rosa County, FL, (aka "Lower Alabama") I might as well not even bother voting either. I've pretty much resigned myself to having a Republican Congressman until Hell freezes over. I actually thought there might be a chance of a Democratic upset this year because the Democrat who ran in 2004 drew some very respectable numbers for a first-time candidate. Then the guy goes and announces that he's too pro-life to run under the Democratic banner so he's running as an indpendent this time around, making it a three-person race. Might as well go ahead and hold that Republican victory barbecue this weekend.

But I don't see any way gerrymandering fits into the picture here. Our district is as far west as you can go and still be in Florida. Go any further and you're in Alabama. And the state's only one county wide from the Gulf of Mexico on the south to the Alabama border on the north. The only direction in which Congressional boundaries could possibly be redrawn would be to the east, and the people over there are just the same as over here, only more so.

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 06:51 PM

The last two elections were rigged. There was a newspaper followup by the New York Times and another paper that showed both Gore and Kerry won the election and Baker, and the supreme court robbed Gore and Blackwell and the voting machines cheated Kerry.

Who knows what will happen this time?

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 07:02 PM

That the last two elections were stolen is a factual matter for anyone who can stand to look at the evidence.

It is now a matter of whether the Democratic hackers are more clever than the Republican hackers. Government by ideologue nerds. Welcome to the USA, century 21.

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 08:59 PM

Yes, I also believe that the last 2 USA elections were rigged...and stolen.

However, I regard the Democrats to be just as venal and corrupt a party as the Republicans. Both of them will attempt to rig and steal any election that comes along, but by a variety of means. Both of them are utterly self-serving.

Incumbents are usually far better set up to stack the next election in their own favor...but there's a certain point of course where the incumbents become so badly compromised in the public mind that they are pretty well bound to get rejected massively at the polls...and then the worm turns.

But the real tragedy is this: Whoever gets elected, whether it be the Democrats or the Republicans, will in my opinion continue to prop up what has become a very, very corrupt political order...and they will essentially continue to serve the same larger corporate interests whom they are both working for (with some differences in style and approach).

The USA needs to be set free of both those major parties and of the great profit-seeking militaristic oligarchy that uses them to further its own ends, ends which are absolutely imperial in nature.

I don't foresee that happening. The deck is too heavily stacked in favor of the oligarchs, because they own the broadcast media.

Much the same situation exists in Canada and the UK...only the public mood and the public expectations are quite different in some ways from those of Americans...and the politicians must keep that in mind. They are not able to go as far down the imperial road without their own public refusing to support them.

The reason our socialized health care system in Canada has not been dumped and done away with, for example, is this: our public simply will not tolerate that, and our politicians know it. The reason we did not join in fighting the Iraq war again is because our public would not have tolerated it.

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: GUEST,Susu's Hubby
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 11:12 PM

The problem is that when new laws are passed, instead of reorganizing to play within the limits of the law, politicians and their staff, more than not, see how far they can bend it without actually breaking it. I'm sure some even find ways to get around it. Such as what happened with the 527's after the massive reform led by McCain several years back.
The 527's aren't officially backed by any candidate but we know who they take their marching orders from.

Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 11:53 PM

Well, we got Bush....Gore is just as moronic, if not more...gee count your lucky stars! Now we got two more puppet morons running, aren't we lucky, and 'free'?? Still waiting for this government to represent US, instead of working at 'remedying' each other's nonsense, while at every turn, stripping us of our rights, under the constitution, and getting US to support THEIR moronic agendas!!!..Right wing and left wing are on the same bird!

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jun 08 - 12:04 AM

GtS:

For such an adroit songwriter you sure subscribe to some strange ideas. Describing Gore as moronic--especially in comparison to W -- is about as strained as you can get without cracking, IMHO. WHile I couldn't agree more that the parties have been corrupted by long exposure to power, I'd still like to see it changed from within.

One step that happened this week is the Democratic Party following Barack's lead and turning their back on special interests as a source of funding--or at least, saying they are doing so. A step in the right direction, anyway.

Painting the whole world black kinda leaves you in an untenable corner.


A

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 08 - 12:33 AM

It could be somewhat like the same kind of corner Marlene Dietrich found herself in in Germany under the Nazis, Amos.

She left Germany.

But where does one leave to now if the USA goes totally crazy, that's the question? Things aren't as bad yet in the USA as they were in Germany in the late 30's...but that could change fast in a real war emergency situation.

(the present mess in Iraq and Afghanistan is not what I call a REAL war emergency for people in the mainland USA...though it sure as hell is for Iraqis, Afghans, and the US and other foreign personnel who are stationed in those countries...it's kind of comparable to the Spanish Civil War in that way...a very real war for those on the ground or in the air in Spain itself...but no actual threat to Germany or Italy who were both busily fielding troops in Spain and fighting there, as were the Russians too.)

If you get a REAL war emergency situation in the USA that allows martial law to be declared by the President, Amos, things can change damn fast. Much of the groundwork for an outright totalitarian regime has already been prepared in the last 8 years as your Constitution has been systematically betrayed by those in office.

I'm worried that the next administration will continue to do likewise regardless of who wins the coming election, though I do consider McCain to be more dangerous than Obama due to McCain's bellicose attitude toward fighting foreign wars.

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jun 08 - 02:23 AM

Tidbit trivia: Did you know that Marlena Dietrich, was a key designer of the modern torpedo (At the time)?????? A little homework should show you this. And, yes as a composer, and writer, I know my opinions seem 'off the wall'....but right now, so does the truth. Besides, if and when proven inaccurate, at least I admit it, and adjust! ..But then in 'in depth research', and people who I've known along the way, the opinions expressed, by yours truly, are a little more substantiated, than you may know....BTW, Amos, hi!

Subject: RE: BS: rigging the vote...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jun 08 - 02:26 AM

...and I said, they were both morons....which, is true...well, maybe not 'morons'....but the best we had to lead our country???????????????????????