Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:15 PM

The man is from a folk music-playing family,writes in a modern folk music style, on acoustic instruments, about the area where he is from-why on Earth isn't it folk music? What the hell else is it?

Pop music.


Honestly, why and how do you think to define him out of "your" chosen arena simply because you don't like what he does?

I use 2 measures. One for "folk song" and these days, for that term I'm somewhere near the 1954 outlook.

The other is whether I hear anything about a piece of music that I might recognise having a connection to what I think of as being folk. I could for example have played a Pogues album and without knowing anything, have detected some folk influence. I simply can not do that with much of what I've heard of SL.

0I went to see John Tams and Barry Coope at Glastonbury this year, and they played a set of what I would consider to be soft acoustic pop on synthesiser and guitar. [snip] like wise people like Show of Hands, who again, I would say are pop or soft rock singers.

Interesting...

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:27 PM

Out of curiosity, who in this thread has not heard any SL material?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Folknacious
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:44 PM

I can't see that Seth being in the album charts can do us or the musics we variously like any harm at all. The worst thing that could happen is that it'll do no actual good, but I sort of think that's unlikely, actually.

Now if Eliza's and Jim Moray's new ones could follow it in there as well, sharpish, that would be a might fine thing. A revolution even. Mind you, Mudcat would probably self destruct with righteous indignation at that point.

Give them (and us) all a break! Have you looked at what else is in the top 10, for heaven's sake?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:52 PM

Is Seth short for anything?

Perhaps its West Country rhymming slang for Jeff...

As in Speak up, I'm a bit Mutt and seth.

If he went into heavy metal, he could MegaSeth.

I think he has a big future, already the possibilities are suggesting themselves.

The last Seth I remember was Seth Adams on Wagon Train. The Indians got him and John Macintyre had to take over.

I'm not really sure why this young man's career raises the hackles of so many folkies. But it does.

It could be that one is still quite literally as welcome as a fart in a space suit in many clubs with a traditonal bias - and somehow he hasn't been made to eat crow like many other contemporary folkies. In fact he seems to have bypassed the usual diet of shit suppers and rejection - that has been the lot of many great talents. that's bound to inspire jealousy from contemporary folksingers.

And the traddies will be pissed off because they haven't been able to swat him down and do for him with their accustomed ease and destructiveness.

So that's two sources of animosity. Eliza, surely you've worked that one out.

The best thing will be for him - if he succeeds - really gets some sort of crossover thing worked out like shania Twain did with country music, like years ago Steeleye did. then everyone will want to be his friend.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:58 PM

Definitions are for shop-keepers, seeking to oust someone from the scene they grew up in out of personal taste is narcissism. I was brought up to believe in solidarity. If it's rubbish, fine, don't buy it. But some folks here clearly place worth on their personal definition and keep him out of it in some prurient cathartic excercise. I'm tired of people questioning young performers' motives simply because they work differently from previous generations. It is not confined to this thread, this is a straw and camel's back moment for me.
Sod it. I'll be the first to come clean. We're all in it for the money, the millions that can be made from folk music.
Some svengali is running us all like puppets and keeping me and Seth and Rachel Unthank in all that gold and diamonds we clearly flaunt all the time. And we love it, because our parents clearly failed to instil any love for tradition in us, and we stick around on the folk scene, just to push it in your faces how shallow we are, hahaha all the way to the bank. Nothing to do with tradition or art or passion. Yep.
whoo-hoo! 'bye suckers!
xe

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 01:58 PM

I've listened to all the Lakepersons, over many years.

As I've said before, I don't especially like what "Seth" (or Sean or Sam) is doing these days, the violin abuse and yelping in particular, but it's his right to perform his music how he wants and it's mine (and anyone elses's) to listen or not. (I draw the line at conceding any right to smoothie production companies to try to pass his songwriting off as "trad" though . . . )

Eliza said: Most folk music on the scene leaves me cold, but I don't presume to dictate what others should be doing any more.

Indeed. Me too. I actually loathe the "scene" (such as it is) and have never taken much of a part in it. I don't give a toss what music gets in the charts. It's all manipulated, rigged and of little consequence. kRusby, Tams & Coope, Beer & Knightley: yeah, it's all quite nice soft rock, but hardly worth crossing from one tent to another at a festival to see (not that I personally bother to turn up at many of these at all nowadays.

Actually, I don't really know what I'm doing here at all. I've almost given up even lurking as there's just so much worthless detritus to wade through. I'm off to try some Playford and baroque tunes on my new keyboard.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:00 PM

I read a load of bollocks in these threads.

Folk club wise, I favour a variety of venues specialising and being broad as they see fit...

What is quite abusurd is the reaction my "If what he turns out bore a resemblance to anything I'd recognise as folk music, I might be joining the celebrating. " seems to have triggerd.

That's my opion, I'm sticking with it for reasons I've given. I'm not telling anyone else they must think the same way as me nor am I putting reasons into the mouths of others.

GET IT?????????

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:06 PM

I'm off to try some Playford and baroque tunes on my new keyboard.

Would that be an electric keyboard?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:07 PM

Of course. Who can afford gas these days?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:08 PM

Utah Phillips said that the best way to make a million at folk music was to start with two million.

Is there any chance we can kinda pretend we all like each other? I ask that because I'm doing my best not to drop a turd in the punch bowl.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:11 PM

Go Eliza! Go Eliza!

Oh that some more of the young traditional singers out there were as persistently, entertainingly and passionately gobby and outspoken as you...

What a breath of fresh air after some of the shite that Mudcat generates week in, week out.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:13 PM

A gas operated keyboard, no that sounds like something the late great Spike Milligan would have come up with to go along with his Hational Health gas-operated teeth.

Yes But Is This Folk Folks?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:14 PM

Oi Peace! Dontcha dare! I was eying up that fruitbowl!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:15 PM

erm, punchbowl!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,stonker
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:21 PM

Just heard EC's on radio 4 in the next few minutes..

Might be a laugh if its a live broadcast interview,
witnessing the mood some of you seething resentful old ****s
have put her in.........

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:23 PM

Who's resentful?

The comments some of you are making are moronic.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:24 PM

Eliza will survive intact, stonker, she has so far, and done a good job of it, so don't you worry.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Banjiman
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 02:44 PM

Nice one Seth, nice one Eliza! Don't give a monkeys if either of them are "1954FOLK" or not, they're producing good stuff and getting people of all ages interested in folk music. This is a good thing.

However, I must take issue with that Leveller fellow about this abomination:

"Barney McKenna? But he's a banjo player - what has that got to do with folk music, or music at all, for that matter?"

That is just blind prejudice against a vulnerable section of our society, may you rot in the fires of hell.....and buy the first round at Pickering!

Paul

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:00 PM

Just waiting for you to see that, Paul! At least I had the decency to apologise, though.

Do you ever wish that you'd never started something because it turned into Frankenstein's monster?

I agree with (most) of what Eliza said but I'm sorry I missed her on t' radio just now, didn't get to hear the end of the Archers either.

Are we about ready for the 'folk is a broad church' line and a nice cup of cocoa?

Think I'll just go and put Freedom Fields on (the one recorded in the kitchen that's been signed by Seth (and I laughed at the time and said 'That'll be worth something one day when he's famous - which, of course he never will be'!!!!!!!!!)

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:13 PM

Eliza Carthy Will Be Appearing Here

Martyn Joseph too

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:15 PM

Front Row will be on the replayer for a week. It was what it says: Eliza explaining what is f*lk, what is trad and what's the very real difference.
Go and put on Dreams Of Breathing Underwater instead and never mind the sodding cocoa. Oranges and sea salt, they don't go together . . .

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Phil B
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:31 PM

Traditional music tells wonderful stories
So Does Seths
Traditional music gives us history and legend and often binds the two together.
So does Seths.
Traditional music gives us a unique sense of melody from which to build new music.
Seths songs reflect just that.
Traditional music gives many of us a definitive sense of place and a feeling for who we actually are.
Seths music does this
'World' music gives us music that is regarded as 'popular' in its home environment. Perfectly bound up in and seamlessly linked to tradion.
Seth is giving us just that.
In a dumb celebrity culture where non acheivers can become household names and earn obscene sums of money it's refreshing to find a young man who has worked hard and created something worthwhile out of the building blocks of our past music and culture. By making something new out of it, he carries the thing forward. I for one am utterly delighted.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:37 PM

Traditional music tells wonderful stories

Most of the traditional stuff I do has no words.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Lord Batman's Kitchener
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:41 PM

Most of the traditional stuff I do has no words.

Yes but fortunately we're not all singing or playing the same thing, are we?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:45 PM

No and I think I did jump the gun there... It's just I often read what amounts to "what is folk" definitions which somehow exclude what is to the largest part of my personal enjoyment in traditional music, ie. the dance music.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,stonker
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:51 PM

well, if anyone can't dance to Seth Lakeman's energetic rythmic fiddle playing..

time to pull over the sheets
and get a Dr to write out yer exit certificate !

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:52 PM

Nice post, Mr Beer!

Bring on the musicians, I say! Always worth listening to.

Lovely view from your studio, too!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 03:57 PM

Take, as an example, the tune Mr Isaac's Maggot. No words, but the chap and his very jaunty personality is described exactly by the music. Present day composers writing in the tradition say lots without speaking. I'm thinking particularly of John Dipper's Ruskin Mill, Hunting Houses and that one about a journey whose name I can't remember.

Though what this has the do with the charts I've no idea.

Outta here.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 04:12 PM

Guest,Jon-
I wasn't picking on you, and I did explain that my post is the end result of reading a lot of these very prurient posts towards younger people, over an amount of time, not just the end result of reading one thread or one post. My part of the protest wasn't all about you, sorry if you felt that it was...I do get it, and I don't need the caps lock in order to.
I was also agreeing with you in my way, because the folk scene does not contain as much traditional music these days, and as a result I don't like it as much as I used to. They are all still folkies apparently, so maybe I'm not. If Seth is what people like on the folk scene and you don't like him, maybe you're not either. Just a thought, not an attack. Scenes change, definitions change(I have no idea what the 1954 business is all about, maybe it has clarified things on this board though, so I'm not touching it). That was my point too.
Although I don't think Seth is as good as the Pogues (yet, i'll give him time, he's not done), I see and hear no difference between what he does and what they do, it's all rock-based folk music to me. But that, I stress, is just me.
x e

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 04:25 PM

OK Eliza, sorry I got angry then. A couple of comments.

1954 definition is a traditional view - taken in, passed on orally, etc. in a community.

My personal folk scene is very much the small one. Preferably playing in Irish instrumental sessions but it can include singarounds or informal folkclubs (and I'm not much of a one for concerts). I'm happy with a mixed trad and contempory repertoire but more and more, I find myself preferring the trad direction.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 04:28 PM

Look, all I was trying to say was that when 'folk' (whatever your definitions), or folk-style/based musical entertainment manages to be enjoyed by a wider audience than one would normally expect, it's good.


Isn't it?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 04:40 PM

Still with the Leveller on this one.

Though I'm more of a Ranter.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 05:38 PM

Hi, Leveller, Hi, e, Hi, Button,
I started out in the early 60s with my ear glued to an old radio trying to pick up absolutely anything that sounded like folk, mostly American. I then hit the Waterson wall and was knocked out. I say good luck to Seth, if he draws in only one extra youngster to respect and enjoy any sort of folk it's gotta be good!!!

SteveG x

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: irishenglish
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 06:02 PM

The wonderful Miss Eliza Carthy said-"The folk scene should surely be about supporting independence from the mainstream; it so happens that success can spring from that. So do we abandon people the minute that happens? Leave them for cultural dead? To be a folksinger must inevitably mean to be unable to make a living?"

The wonderful Mr. Phil Beer said- "In a dumb celebrity culture where non acheivers can become household names and earn obscene sums of money it's refreshing to find a young man who has worked hard and created something worthwhile out of the building blocks of our past music and culture. By making something new out of it, he carries the thing forward. I for one am utterly delighted.

Well said, both of you. And a reminder that with people like Seth, and Eliza, and Phil Beer, and John Tams, and Jim Causley, and John Kirkpatrick, and The Young Coppers, and Kate Rusby, and Kathryn Tickell, and......you get the point, we have an across the boards representation of traditional music, whatever your own particular likes and dislikes may be. I for one am not particularly enamored of Jim Moray (sorry Eliza!)-he just doesn't do it for me, or as Eliza said, he leaves me cold. No harm, no foul. I'm a huge Great Big Sea fan. They do a mix of traditional Newfoundland music and pop songs. I probably only like about 40% of their pop material-a lot of it I think is ok, but its dime a dozen, it could be done by anyone. Seeing them live, and hearing a large crowd-and I mean thousands, not hundreds of people, but at their larger shows, thousands singing Lukey's boat, General Taylor, Old Polina, etc. is just awesome. People who got into them for various reasons, most of them probably not via the usual folk route, who now have a starting point for future listening are now exposed to folk music. The same thing happened to me (you can read WAV's Glastonbury Folk Festival thread to see how it happened for me),and if Seth's success brings more interest from anyone, I say its worth it. Nice words again, Eliza and Phil!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 06:06 PM

I am sorry to have to disagree with Eliza Carthy, since I am consistently in awe of her musicianship and her interpretation and furtherance of traditional (narrow meaning) and folk (slightly wider meaning) music. However, if the expression "folk" is not to be anomalous, being used in one sense of music and in another sense of other arts and means of expression, then it s only the 1954 defintionthat makes sense (at least no-one yet has put forward any other that convinces).

The 1954 definition does permit accretions to the body of folk music, by adoption and modification, and it does not preclude interpretation (or amplification).

It is not a matter of liking. As I said, I could quite like some of Seth Lakeman's stuff (but I quite like some Bob Marley, some ragga and quite a few metal and death metal and rock bands, not to mention a whole pile of cock rock and what we used to call R&B back in the 60s). However, it isn't only shopkeepers who need definitions. All of us who need connections to our roots need to know what those roots are.

The oddity is that in many settings that is considered a given. It was even in tonight's re-run of "Star Trek, the next generation" - Worff's adoptive parents recalling their efforts to ensure his connection with his heritage. It was a given of the early Afro-American consciousness raising. Yet for some reason it seems to be anathema for many in the context of English folk music.

Ho hum.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 06:20 PM

One thing we must consider is market and sales. The category singer-songwriter hardly exists on site, in magazines OR on the www. Regardless whether one is Indie or released thru an established label, CDs come down to two things in the market place:

1) profit from sales and

2) profit from airplay

Most "folkishly oriented individuals" get PUT under the category Folk. They don't fit anywhere else except singer-songwriter (folkish, rockish, hiphopish, etc).

FWIW

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: irishenglish
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 06:27 PM

The most well intentioned performer is at the mercy of record stores as well, because those (such as are left) feel the need to either pigeonhole everything, and come up with a category for everything, or just dump anything that isn't rock or pop into the "everything else" category. So, as Peace just said-folishly oriented individuals get put under the umbrella folk category. I can't even begin to tell you some of the strange places I have found CD's filed in sometimes! I used to work at Tower, which was pretty good about that sort of thing. At other stores, I swear sometimes things got filed by cover art!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 07:17 PM

I just don't like the use of the word "hero" in relation to skill in performing or creating.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 07:28 PM

hi Richard,
I still don't know what this 1954 definition is, I'm sorry-it must be buried in the forum somewhere, but since I think that folk music and traditional music are two different things, I'm not sure it would help me.
I am a strong, vocal advocate of understanding one's roots, cultures and traditions. My interest and background are in English traditional music specifically and the way that tradition operates more generally, as well as enjoying writing my own music based on what I know as a modern person with this background in this community and the wider society in which I live, musical and otherwise. I am one of those people that likes to see an unbroken line from tradition to pop as well, that when things work right there is a natural discourse and common ground between the two.
I agree that it isn't a matter of liking, whether or not Seth Lakeman is folk. He is folk to me in the same way Bob Dylan is, or Steve Tilston, or Rory Macleod, or Stan Rodgers, or Jake Thackray. All people generally considered folk by the folk around here. He's certainly not rock, or hip-hop, or disco, or any of the many pop sub-genres; he's certainly not traditional music like the Coppers or Almeida Riddle.
I think people say things like "he's not folk" in order to exclude him; on this board that statement is often emotionally very weighted, and used preclusively, I think that's unfair.
x e

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Gulliver
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 07:46 PM

I started listening to SL last year, after reading about him here on Mudcat. I like everything I've heard so far. I don't know much of his background (and don't particularly care), but I've always thought of him as a singer/songwriter, like, say, David Gray or Paddy Casey. Don

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Folknacious
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 08:07 PM

Well said EC. Seth Lakeman's put in the same box as you and us by so many in the media/ music industry that he is bound to cause some - maybe a few, maybe a lot of - new people to come and look inside, potentially interested. There's nothing we can do about that, and anyway why wouldn't we want such a beneficial thing to happen?

Now, whether the other musical pigeons fluttering around in the hole are attractive to them or not is another matter, and certainly not Seth's fault. Many of them clearly should be. It's the pigeon watching malcontents and the pigeon-hating masochists who lurk in the bottom of this hole who are more likely to scare them off again. With luck our newcomers will spot enough of the Eliza breed to get drawn in.

I'm also with Eliza on asking what this mysterious 1954 in-crowd business is about. Could somebody provide a link or a short explanation?

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 08:16 PM

Well actually the 'he's not folk' slight has been aimed at many of us, and we have learned to live with the injustice of this vile accusation.

Poor old Jack Hudson has been labelled a 'pseudo yank' by the traddies who have tried to define themselves by rejecting anything that flirts with Americana.

Jack himself told me of a time, he said to Martin Carthy - Do you think Tom Paxton is a folksinger then?
And Martin answered, My God no!

One is put in mind and perhaps in the position of Shylock:-

SHYLOCK:

Signior Antonio, many a time and oft

In the Rialto you have rated me

About my moneys and my usances;

Still have I borne it with a patient shrug,

For suff'rance is the badge of all our tribe;

You call me misbeliever, cut-throat dog,



What can one say - Seth Lakeman! woof woof!
Perhaps your generation is wiser, Liza!
(that's almost a poem)

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 08:19 PM

"Folk music is the product of a musical tradition that has been evolved through the process of oral transmission. The factors that shape the tradition are: (i) continuity which links the present with the past; (ii) variation which springs from the creative impulse of the individual or the group; and (iii) selection by the community, which determines the form or forms in which the music survives … The term can be applied to music that has been evolved from rudimentary beginnings by a community uninfluenced by popular and art music and it can likewise be applied to music which has originated with an individual composer and has subsequently been absorbed into the unwritten living tradition of a community … The term does not cover composed popular music that has been taken over ready-made by a community and remains unchanged, for it is the re-fashioning and re-creation of the music by the community that gives it its folk character"

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 09:01 PM

..and as i seem to recall suggesting not too many years ago
when that statement was previously copy & pasted in another thread..

that sure sounds as acurate a defining manifesto
for mid 1970's provincial council estate punk rock
as i could ever hope to prescribe..

FpOuLnK aint dead quite yet !!!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Barden of England
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 02:30 AM

I am in agreement with Eliza Carthy and Phil Beer on this one. I believe we have a fine (and at times not so fine)heritage that makes me happy to be called English (apart from those so called BNP patriots),and although I understand why 1954 keeps cropping up, I've yet to understand how, and by whom, it was agreed. Some academics perhaps, or maybe the people who were just doing it at the time. Whichever way that was then, and this is now and in my view the 2008 model will be looked on very differently in 2062.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 02:42 AM

I re-read my post of last night, and I seem to have made myself obscure (as i often do).

What i was trying to say was:-

Eliza, surely you realise you are a member of one of the most exclusive cliques in folkmusic. (Bob Dylan knows my dad,etc)

Look how all these people genuflect and the sycophantic protestations, before they disagree with you.

Most days of the week some of these wallies will scratch your eyes out for singing fidde di dee!, if Walter Pardon sang fiddle di doh!

You can't really come to us and say, hey we're running this great inclusive movement - when so many of the flock have dedicated themselves to excluding people - and sometimes really quite worthy people.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:01 AM

An inclusive movement?

I don't recall Eliza C saying anything horse-related ("all music is f*lk" bollocks).
As clearly reiterated in the Front Row interview last night, she was stating the bleedin' obvious: that there is traditional music and there is a wholly meaningless monster labelled "f*lk", a category into which anything vaguely acoustic is slung, regardless of quality or worth.

As oftimes repeated, it is my view that the term "f*lk" should be binned forthwith on account of its terminal uselessness.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:05 AM

Right! Gotcha!

and the same wallies are going to decide the quality and worth of human endeavour...

You know for a moment I thought sanity had broken into the temple of the lord.

Silly me!

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:16 AM

What Eliza also said (and I did too) is that you decide for yourself what you rate and what you want to listen to, or not.
People will do (and play and sing) stuff you don't much care for.
They are allowed to and (sometimes inexplicably) make money out of it.
It's useful (both in marketing and in aesthetic terms) to define exactly what you are talking about.
That's accuracy and has nothing to do with exclusivity.

Subject: RE: Seth Lakeman - Folk Hero!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 03:18 AM

Ooh - 100, on a significant thread. Back shortly with real input!