BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention

Subject: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 09:45 PM

No one eye can see all.


First of all Ted Kennedy has never looked so much like Phil Donahue.
He is as vibrant and powerful as ever.

Obama's sister was a wonderful beautiful and comapassionate woman.

Jesse Jr. made a good Mountain top reference in his remarks about MLK looking forward to this moment.

PBS HD has the best coverage and camera work without the 8 second delay of all the other channels.

FOX is doing a non stop smear job decrying the attacks on poor Cindy McCain and the American Dream. Yet Democrats are still going to be interviewed by Bill O'REilly. I just saw Leon Podesta speak to him.

President Carter had a nasty eye infection but was infectious with the spirit of an elated warrior.

On a pithy note, the average delegate is rather poorly dressed.
There are a lot of knit shirts 2 sizes to small with a dunlap over the belt.
We will have to wait for the Republican convention to see everyone's Sunday best.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 10:10 PM

It has been inspiring and terrific, so far. I wrote a bit on the other DNC/Code of the West thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Genie
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:22 PM

One thing we should not overlook: Fox News (reportedly by random choice) got the exclusive rights to the "primary video feed" for the Democratic Convention.
That means that, no matter what channel you see video footage on, it is the footage that Fox - in their infinite and oh-so-fair-and-unbalanced judgment - deigned to shoot and make available in the first place.
That means that when you see a bizarre-looking or ugly or bored-looking or frowning person on camera while Barack or Michelle or Nancy P or Hillary C or Joe Biden or whoever is speaking, it was Fox News that chose to capture that image instead of any of the other possible camera shots.

Methinks I've already seen a few choice examples of this "selective camera usage" tonight.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,guest, cigilteach
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:34 PM

G, yes, me too. I'm insane so I flipped to compare images between channels. And fow was grabbing phrases while she spoke and putting underneath on that annoy frame - they couldn't even wait until after the speech. Words like "Obama: America should be a place to..." "Barack is the same man I met 19 years ago." Watch the twists they on those phrases, among others.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 08 - 11:40 PM

CSPAN was not dictated to by FOX. It was excellent coverage, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Genie
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 12:06 AM

Kat, I hope you are right.   Of course, a lot of us don't have cable, so we're stuck with ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and PBS - all of which get their feed from Fox.

I'm not sure if C-Span is exempt. I'd love to know that they are.   But having only broadcast TV myself and now watching the PBS coverage, I'm already dismayed at how much of the convention is NOT being shown on the "mainstream" channels (e.g., Jimmy Carter, Martin Luther King III, Barack Obama's sister, etc.).

BTW, I thought Michelle Obama was wonderful!!

But on PBS, alongside the "left-leaning" commentator what's-his-name, I was appalled to hear the guy on the other side pushing the meme that the Dems really needed to make the issue not so much Republicans (over the pas 8 years) v. Democrats as "about Barack Obama!"
HELLO!!!   IMO this election is about sooooo much more than Barack Obama! It should be and NEEDS to be mainly a referendum on how the modern US Republican Party (with it's record-setting filibusters) has trashed and shattered our own US Constitution and all-too-successfully set out to destroy government programs so they could claim "government can't do anything right" and proceed to unravel the best of the government programs of the New Deal.

Much as I admire and support Barack Obama, I do not believe this upcoming election is or should be "about" him.   It's about seeing a train about to run full speed off a cliff and doing our damnest to stop that and get the engine back on the right track.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 12:25 AM

Interesting evening, pretty much what one expects. Trying to reach out to and soften up the hard-headed under-educated Democrats who can't stomach voting for Obama for idiotic racist or fundamentalist reasons. The DNC folks stressed humanity, family tonight. Michelle speaks very well.

Remind me again, how on earth did those same voters they're trying to reach listen to that dufus Dubya and then decide he had the intellect to run the U.S.?

What an uphill struggle ahead. If it really is coming close to a tie again, as some polls seem to indicate, then the voters to be swayed are these under-achieving non-thinkers between the parties who voted for Bush--twice. It's late--and I've had two political "survey" calls this evening, so my view is no doubt jaundiced. I'm sick to death of politics. Too bad the election isn't tomorrow.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 12:36 AM

Well, Genie, I flipped back and forth between our PBS and Cspan and stopped doing that to watch Cspan as it was pure, raw coverage without the talking heads, etc. I didn't see a lot of panning during the speeches, in fact I saw each speaker in full. You can, too, over at the Cspan website.:-)

Highlights for me were the Carters, who did not speak on stage, btw, they just walked across and waved after the video of him on New Orleans was shown, and Ted Kennedy. I have so much respect for them all. I was in tears most of this evening watching and feeling proud of the people of Colorado and Dems from all over.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Miner633
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 02:52 AM

I see a couple of uninvited guests just been arrested close to the centre, one had a rifle. Doubt they were looking autographs.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 06:33 AM

Genie - you wrote:

"Much as I admire and support Barack Obama, I do not believe this upcoming election is or should be "about" him.   It's about seeing a train about to run full speed off a cliff and doing our damnest to stop that and get the engine back on the right track."

You are absolutely right in what you say about the importance of this election, but I have to disagree with you in one respect.

To prevent the nightmare of which you speak, it is essential that the party gets behind him and gives him all the support they can muster.

If it is true that he and McCain are neck and neck, then he needs an extra push to stand out as the best candidate.

Most people vote for personalities not policies and will go with their impressions of people rather than an informed assessment of a candidates history.

McCain seems sincere sensible and patriotic despite the evidence clearly pointing to a quite different reality.

To stop him the democratic party need to sell Obama-Cola like never before.

Once people have developed a taste for it then you can tell them what's in it and why its better for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 07:38 AM

The presidential election isn't about issues, it is about deciding who will deal with the issues. We forget this at our peril.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 07:52 AM

"That means that when you see a bizarre-looking or ugly or bored-looking or frowning person on camera while Barack or Michelle or Nancy P or Hillary C or Joe Biden or whoever is speaking, it was Fox News that chose to capture that image instead of any of the other possible camera shots."



                     Are you sure that isn't just the way they are?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:02 AM

rig says the darnedest things!

There are 20,000 people in the hall. Its called editing.

I've been watching the live streaming coverage on MSNBC.com. I don't know if it is Fox feed, but it looks, from the shots selected, as though the attendance at the convention is about 70 percent African American and the rest are poorly dressed middle aged white folks who can't dance.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:32 AM

Hmmm that might explain the many unflattering camera shots.
Yes they do portray a skewed black segment of the audience exclusively. What I thought was a pithy fashion comment turns out to be an intentional trick by FOX.

Fox also has Karl Rove talking over the proceedings.
They covered a handfull of people chanting 'Obama is a baby killer' until the (possibly hired) crew got tired.

They did a big segment how their camera man was attacked by Democrats. What was shown was a guy standing with his hands behind his back barring a FOX reporter from interviewing Professor Churchill who did not want to speak to FOX. (the fired Denver teacher for saying 9-11 was an inside job) Even when the FOX reporter tried jumping off the side of stone stairs to get at the teacher, some polite people stood in line preventing the FOX reporter from falling 10 feet.

Fox controling the camera is significant. The moment of the kids choir was spoiled by camera work and poor sound.

Also come to think of it when Pelosi first began the Convention she had a dead microphone for the first 2 minutes.

How could FOX be allowed to control this event?

I will check out CSPAN tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:33 AM

The Michelle Obama and Kennedy segments were superbly done and moving. The Roselyn and Jimmy thing was also very well done.

So far so good.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:49 AM

That is true Jack. But that was mostly shots of Arnold's wife with a tear in her eye.

Another thing I noticed was the inordinate amount of time the camera shows empty seats and the impression of few people moving about.
The empty seats are behind the podium.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 09:06 AM

One of those empty seats is mine (not that I was invited to attend). There will be another at the RNC, too.

The Conventions no longer choose the candidate; they provide a circus. Like the Olympics, I used to watch them.

Instead, I'll study what the candidates say (using, for instance, "Facts On File"), look at their records, and vote for whomever I feel is best.

Sorry to be such a radical.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Neil D
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 09:54 AM

Senator Kennedy was inspirational for me personally. The fact that he made there at all with all he has been through. Then to give a rousing heartfelt speech in which he promised to be on the floor of the senate in January. It brought tears to my eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 10:16 AM

Circuses aren't all that bad. As long as there is also bread, who could complain?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 10:22 AM

I tuned in early so I could watch ALL the speeches starting with the uncle of the sister-in-law of Obama's fifth cousin, twice removed. It was stirring. Thrilling. Gave me a boner.

Actually what I saw and the news coverage as well has looked good but the "We're all down home family" thing is already wearing thin. They made the point now move on.....so to speak.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 10:36 AM

"That means that, no matter what channel you see video footage on, it is the footage that Fox - in their infinite and oh-so-fair-and-unbalanced judgment - deigned to shoot and make available in the first place. "

As much as I would love to point a finger at FOX, their control of the cameras is not as exclusive as some people seem to think. They do provide a "pool" service, an arrangement between the networks that has been around for decades. Instead of having several networks trying to install numerous cameras, one network installs cameras (at positions agreed upon by all)and the pool feed as well as individual camera angles are made available to the press. Each network decides what cameras to take to broadcast. In addition, each network augments the feed with their own.   The microphones on the podium are usually installed by the DNC and the technical issues in Denver have been effecting a number operations.

I've been to a couple of conventions, and someone mentioned the empty seats. You would be surprised at how many "empty seats" there are. When I attended conventions at Madison Square Garden, the building was probably less than 1/2 full. This is not a sporting event and it is not open to the public except for a limited number of seats. This is done for security reasons as well. Usually the podium design and stage design can cover up the empty seats.

As inspiring at this convention has been, the role of conventions has changed dramatically. They are basically infomercials now and the work that was actually accomplished in the past seems to be forgotten. It is now all about the primetime splash.

It is still fun to watch!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:42 AM

spaw I am 110% in agreement.

But I hope they don't give time to a up close personal fluff piece on the Obama family's pet Gerbil. Not that there is anything wrong with a man and his Gerbil.


-

I just saw Pelosi today ithout makeup and looking totally drained finally speak the truth of the last 8 years on CSPAN.

Her speech last night was so lame "America is at a crossroads blah blah bland"

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:49 AM

"'That means that, no matter what channel you see video footage on, it is the footage that Fox - in their infinite and oh-so-fair-and-unbalanced judgment - deigned to shoot and make available in the first place.'"


                   They've got a covert cameraman out there hoping to get a shot of Hillary yawning, or Joe Biden picking his nose.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:52 AM

There were few empty seats for the big speeches.

During the day we must remember that it is a convention with a lot of side conferences and networking going on. Maybe they show so many goofy, poorly dressed bad dancers because the cool people have better places to be.

BTW I thought that Biden handled himself very well, especially during the big speeches. You could see his admiration for Teddy and Michelle in his eyes and he led some standing ovations. I am feeling better and better about Obama choosing him.

Also, I am now convinced, this is the third time I've watched he speak, that Michelle is a better speaker than Barack. She is more passionate, has a better rythm and says "Uhm" a lot less.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 12:15 PM

hey rig,

I have a outline for a political thriller that involves a covert "TV" camera man who is also actually holding a microwave 'rifle' at a convention.
It is made with the same microwave cone generator found in a typical restaurant microwave oven.

When he aims it at a speaker they get hot, then confused and if he leaves it on them for more than twenty seconds they could even faint.

IF he stays on them for a minute or two they are dead.

It works at sporting events too!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM

I noticed that Barack said that Michelle's performance was unbelievable.

He really needs to choose his words better than that.

The look on her face portrayed that she recognized the poor choice of words.

Then he asked his little girl how mommy did... arghhh

Has someone been putting flouride in his water or what

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 01:34 PM

What hope is there for our country with a bunch of grumpy old cynics like some of you? Keriste on a krutch! Ever heard about putting your energy into something positive, something you'd like to have happen? Any chance you might experiment for one day, and say nothing negative or critical, for the whole day, and see how ya feel later on? Or, just keep expending your energy in being armchair critics making sure nobody gets it right, because how could they please you lot?!

Neil, it brought tears to my eyes, too. I loved seeing Ted surrounded by his sons and nieces and nephews at the end there, too.

I thought it was great they were showing such diversity AND that the people who were shown dancing, waving signs and all looked a lot like a bunch of folkies...i.e. comfortably dressed! I suppose one could argue they were dressed in rags due to the shrub's fucking up the economy for eight years, but where's the fun in that?!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: mg
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 02:04 PM

is it standard practice for the candidate to not be at the convention? I guess he isn't going until Thursday? It seems this would be the only chance for people to meet him etc. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 02:06 PM

Two minutes is a long time to take to kill someone with secret service on hand. Its a lot of screen time in a suspense film too. Interesting concept though. I was thinking of a similar idea with a gun built into a camera.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 02:10 PM

is it standard practice for the candidate to not be at the convention?

Yes. There have been a few that broke protocol, but most wait until their turn. Seeing them early would slow the momentum for the final, and most critical, event - the acceptance speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 02:34 PM

MSNBC, OMO, is the place to watch it if you happen to be left of center, center or even slightly left of the right wing...

Kieth O., Eugene R. and Rachael M. are at the ver least callin' it the way it is...

James Carvelle thinks that the Dems should spend the entire week blasting away at McCain??? I don't agree with James but they could take a few more shotys seein' as the McCain camp is intent on firing away at Obama for the entire week...

I'd love to see the Dems give it back to McNasty next week... I think I'd start off Monday morning with an ad called "McCain, to hot tempered to be president"

On Tuesday it would be "Infidelity is not a Family Value"...

Wednesday "If You Liked the Last Cold War, Vote McCain"

and on Thursday, something more topical about McCain's choice for VP... Like if it's Romney, "The Billion Dollar Man"...

Yeah, that would make this ol' hillbilly proud...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: bobad
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 03:08 PM

"Reports emerged Monday that one of the four people arrested told the U.S. Secret Service the group was "going to shoot Obama from a high vantage point" with a rifle during the Democratic National Convention, currently under way in Denver."

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/08/26/obama-plot.html?ref=rss

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 03:20 PM

"I have a outline for a political thriller that involves a covert "TV" camera man who is also actually holding a microwave 'rifle' at a convention."


                  A microwave rifle, there really is no end to American enginuity.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 03:44 PM

NEW YORK (CNN) -- The Beverly Hillary-billies come to Denver.

"It's not like [the Clintons] have been bending over backwards to help Obama get elected," says Jack Cafferty.

If you look closely this week, you might catch a glimpse of Barack Obama at the Democratic National Convention in between appearances by the Clintons. Hillary Clinton is doing her dead-level best to take title to Obama's moment in the sun.

She lost. He won. She and her family will be everywhere.

She speaks tonight. Chelsea Clinton will introduce her. She will be preceded by a video produced by her own people, the same ones who produced the "Man from Hope" for Bill Clinton. He will speak tomorrow.

The Clintons will also use the convention to raise money to retire her campaign debts. They even came up with a cute little contest. Hillary Clinton awarded one lucky donor a trip to the convention with her.
.....

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton owes some big bucks, as in tens of millions of dollars. So if you're at the convention this week and you see her out in front of the hall selling pencils, buy one. She needs the money.



more at:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/25/cafferty.clintons/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 04:02 PM

What a bunch of crap. The Clintons are a big part of the Democratic Party. Of course they should be there. What would the idiot pundits say if they stayed away? Oh, yeah, the pundies would love that, wouldn't they? Fercrisakes, is it so inconceivable to you that people can work through things and work together?!

Rep. James E. Clyburn of South Carolina: "We learned coming out of the caucuses that sound bites can in fact be detrimental," Clyburn said. "So, irrespective of what may or may not happen on the [convention] floor . . . the problem is you might have two or three people who will say something, and that may become the headline."

And that is what the pundies have done to our media coverage. So, you believe it all, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 04:35 PM

AP: Edgy Dems await Clinton 1 hour, 50 minutes ago



DENVER - Democrats were on edge Tuesday as they waited to hear Hillary Rodham Clinton's prime-time speech on party unity, with some of her supporters saying they don't know what to do and others provoking confrontations.

Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter backed Clinton in the primary, but said he still isn't clear if he's supposed to vote for her in Wednesday's roll call of the states due to what he called a lack of clarity from either the Clinton or Obama camps about the roll-call process.

"Just tell me what you want me to do," he said in an Associated Press interview, throwing up his hands and rolling his eyes.

He said he doesn't think the process really matters, because in the end Obama will be the nominee no matter what and the party will rally behind him.

In a separate interview, former Democratic Party Chairman Don Fowler, a Clinton supporter, said he remained uneasy about the attitudes of some Clinton delegates.

"It seems to be a little more of a problem than I anticipated," Fowler said. "There is some risk involved. ... All you need is 200 people in that crowd to boo and stuff like that and it will be replayed 900 times. And that's not what you want out of this."

The hand-wringing played out as Clinton paid a morning visit to the Pepsi Center with daughter Chelsea to check out the podium where she was to deliver her evening speech.

There were already signs of strain in the morning at a meeting of Democratic women.

Businesswoman Sheila Johnson, who is the owner of the Washington Mystics basketball team and an African-American, was imploring the crowd not to let voters get distracted by Obama's mixed race heritage or his unusual name when a man wearing a "Hillary" button called out from the crowd.

"Hussein! Hussein!" yelled the man, a reference to Obama's middle name. Many in the crowd leapt to their feet, shaking noisy tambourines at him and drowning him out.

The man, Igor Zhivotovksy from New York City, said later he is a strong Clinton backer who thinks she was cheated out of the nomination — and he doesn't like Obama.

"We just finished getting rid of a guy named Hussein in Iraq and why are we trying to elect someone with the same name?" said Zhivotovsky. "Everybody thinks if you're against Obama you're racist."

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 04:53 PM

I just saw Mike Dukakis. He now looks more like Howard Cosell.
He is a very spry 75.

Later tonight I might get to see Dennis Miller and Bill O'Reilly disect Michelle Obama's speech sentence by sentence. Won't that be fun?

I heard Don Imus endorse John McCain and say that Obama is a phoney in an empty sit. Latr he said he was still miffed at Obama for not giving him a pass during the knappy incident.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 05:05 PM

Jack, Rig,
The device is real and as serious as a heart attack. It has been around for nearly 30 years. Thing is today, anyone could build one. It even works through windows without metal screens. Further detail is unecessary and dangerous. These things do in fact have a history of being used with extreme predjudice by goverments and individuals alike. I do not know if the Constitution protects your right to have one.

kat; the Kennedy moments are and were precious and moving. My wife has had the priviledge to work for him in DC.
In succinct thread responses what screams loudest is cynacism but there is a lor of unsaid heart felt thoughts as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 09:09 PM

my Barack gaff cartoon

Barack on stage at convention:
"Senator Clinton, it was close, but no cigar"

Bill Clinton glares

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 09:18 PM

LOL...good one, Donuel. And, thank you for the post just before that. It touched my heart and gives me pause.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:40 PM

Observation?

Second rate medicine show. The tent is packed, we are being entertained by dancing girls and story tellers, hoping that the show will be good enough to excite the media, and at the end Alibama will rise on the platform, his magic carpet wrapped around him, and everyone will wait expectantly to see if he can ride the carpet up, up, up and away, out of the hall and through the next few weeks ........- or go kerplunk.

No, the Republican convention will be no better.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:41 PM

I think Senator Clinton made a wonderful speech tonight. The heads are still debating it and hammering out their consensus but I know what I heard and saw.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:53 PM

I loved the governor from Montana. He was hoot and really good at getting people fired up. I love it when someone shows some genuine excitement/enthusiasm! AND< I loved it when one of them, can't remember which one, said we had to let go of cynicism!! That's what I've been saying! I think it was Deval Patrick who said it. He is a great speaker, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:58 PM

I didn't say it didn't exist. The Pentagon is testing crowd control microwave devices. I'm saying it might not be an effective way to kill someone at a convention if it takes that long to kill. Once the subject dropped there would be bodies in the way and they would possibly be evacuated on a stretcher before the cameraman could finish them off. It would be a challenge to plausibly write is all I'm saying,

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:59 PM

Great speech from Hillary.

I think Bill is going to raise the roof!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 07:38 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/08/27/do2701.xml

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 08:10 AM

There are defensive reasons one has to tell their family story so we won't believe they all came from Al Qada training camps.


Hillary spoke of Harriet Tubbs from Rochester New York urging people to keep going if they see torches to keep going if they hear dogs to keep going... powerful stuff.
Rochester NY has the distinction of hatching many national movments that would surprise you,

I would have voted for her if it hadn't been for here globalist NAFTA postitions.

THe camera work was much better last night

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 09:05 AM

Donuel-

Please: "Harriet Tubman."

I was favorably impressed with Hillary's speech. It's probably one of her best ones.

I'll be curious enough to listen to what Bill has to say, but I expect he'll do well too.

What ever happened to Bill Richardson? Did I miss a major scandal?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 09:13 AM

I rely on your help on names. I have a blind spot for names that has hurt me all my life.

Congresswoman Tubbs recently died.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack The Sailor
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 10:49 AM

Richardson is there. I spect we'll see him tonight or tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 02:26 PM

i am going to be on talk of the nation on npr in a minute

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 02:40 PM

Bill Richardson endorsed Obama after he dropped out, and that did not sit will with the Clintons.

The only other major scandal with Richardson was that he said he was drafted by the Dodgers in the 1960's when he was only scouted.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 02:57 PM

Y'know, negative campaigning during primaries is a real problem, inasmuch as the losers' words can come back to haunt the party that both represent. Hillary's speech was fine--one of her best....BUT...in conjunction with her primary campaign statements, it makes her look like she shares McCain's convenient forgettery. The problem isn't limited to the Dems, though...I suspect that some of the things Romney said about McCain are going to be disinterred, especially if he winds up with the veep nomination.

It would be a even greater problem if most people believed anything any politician ever said.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 08:17 PM

I got more than a minute on NPR! You can listen HERE. In the first segment, I start at about 25:08. Be sure to listen past when he starts to say thanks and goodbye. I got a little bit more in there!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 08:23 PM

Good job Kat!

Very inspiring!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 08:48 PM

Hillary redeemed herself tonight when she spoke for New York and put the whole selection process onto a "name by acclamation footing" for Barack. It was great theater, great politics, and a great moment in history to watch a woman swing the entire DNC into line behind an African American. Awesome and well done.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 09:01 PM

Bill's up in a few seconds. Oughtta be interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 09:40 PM

Thanks, Jack!

It has been fantastic tonight. I Still LOVE Bill!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 10:19 PM

Bill Clinton's speech was unreservedly excellent, balanced, passionate, insightful and articulate. And he threw his weight behind Obama 100%, saying exactly why, and exactly where and how the catastrophes of the Bush years have left us where we are and why Obama is the man to turn things around.

An awesome speech, at the top of his form as a first rate leader.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Beer
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:06 PM

Beau's presentation was also excellent. What a great speech.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:12 PM

Biden showed himself as an excellent leader, a man of straight talk and strong common sense.

ALl in all it was one hell of a day at the DNC. Barack's surprise appearance at the end, when he was scheduled only to appear tomorrow, was a grand slam. His acknowledgment of Bill Clinton, and Bill's of him, were top-drawer.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:16 PM

I agree, wholeheartedly! And, yes, Beau was very articulate and wonderful. What a fantastic night!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:29 PM

A History-Making Nomination (Chr. Sci. Mon.)

It was really stirring, uplifting and exciting, even just watching it on TV.

These people are seriously, genuinely and intelligently out to make a _big_ difference in the look and feel of life in America.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:38 PM

On the other hand, Harry Reid spoke.
He he on Zoloft? Zombiex? Ludes?
Mister Rodgers would have been more electrifying.

Harry Reid gave the most excellent rendition of a lullabye. He was able to come to the sluggish climax of his remarks by employing the name Barack Obama in such a bored tone of voice that the delegates could hardly muster the enthusiasm to cheer the nominee's name.
Even delegates who had 9 Pepsi Colas and had to pee, were bored to death.

Harry Reid even mispoke when listing IS war involvments and said " Wehn we invaded Veit Nam, When we invaded Grenada, When Barak invaded Kuwait..."

Harry, please just go away and do some mattress or Ambein commercials.
If I were Pelosi I would have bitch slapped him long ago just to see if he is sleep talking.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:41 PM

I'd say Joe Biden has not only conered on the market on "Family Values", he's completely overshadowed McCain such that the republican party should never again mention those 2 words again in the same sentence.
Bill was in great form too.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 08 - 11:53 PM

Ibid on Amos' opinions of the other speakers


Straight talk is anathma to FOX newsperts:

FOX poli experts said that Biden went too far when he not only questioned the judgment of McCain but said that McCain has repeatedly made bad judgments. They claim that Biden went out of bounds and over the top. Biden has certainly ruined their collegial friendship by claiming that McCain is not merely wrong but incapable of being right due to such continuous inherent poor judgement.
That does sound a lot like George ;<)

imo George just wanted his own way and preferred others to do the hard work after he was done ranting.

John on the other hand prefers to take orders and then get embroiled in details that he has no business messing with because the big picture has always eluded him.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:18 AM

Biden didn't go far enough, what I was looking for was a commitment to bring the present bunch to trial. As far as McCain ges, Joe should've asked him to pay the repair bill on the planes he wrecked, with interest, that would have an adverse effect on their friendship. McHouse might have to sell of some personnal property.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:45 AM

Lot of 'pretty good' speeches...all show, no go..all bullshit!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:51 AM

Did you see the watering eyes Sanity, anyone that sides with family values is already behind Joe. ANd that 'was' a republican stronghold.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:02 AM

Actually, I thought Biden's mother, that segment was very touching! As far as any other sincerity, ..anything coming from either Clinton is bullshit, Michelle was on her best behavior, Biden's speech was pretty good, but too damn inaccurate, (and I like Biden, too), Obama, was soaking up the 'rock-star' celebrity image thing....If you took all that showtime horsepucky serious, it probably accounts for why the songs you're writing aren't very deep, or satisfying!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 10:01 AM

"FOX poli experts said that Biden went too far when he not only questioned the judgment of McCain "

The puppets on Fox were merely speaking the words fed to them by Roger Ailes and Karl Rove. The Republicants have their panties in a twist because they realize that true Americans are finally seeing through the spin they have been feeding the nation since Reagan was in office. Their hold on family values and the flag is finally over, people are now seeing that the hard-line conversatives had no concept of what our nation truly stands for. They had it wrong all along.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 10:06 AM

Biden has certainly ruined their collegial friendship...

Hardly likely. No halfway professional politicians ever lets that kind of stuff get to them. Just bounces off and doesn't make the least difference to personal relationships.

Rather like tennis pros and so forth.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 11:11 AM

The kind of carping and snidity that some folks have to resort too would be funny, if it weren't sduch a sorry reflection on their condition.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:01 PM

DENVER -- "Give former President Bill Clinton this: he has a sense of the moment.

To our eye, Clinton spun out a masterwork in the 20 or so minutes he spoke last night at the Democratic National Convention -- vouching for Barack Obama's readiness to be president, honoring the campaign of his wife, and broadly dismissing the idea of a John McCain presidency.

Among the highlights of Clinton's virtuoso performance:

• "Hillary told us in no uncertain terms that she'll do everything she can to elect Barack Obama. That makes two of us. Actually that makes 18 million of us -- because, like Hillary, I want all of you who supported her to vote for Barack Obama in November."

• "Barack Obama is ready to lead America and restore American leadership in the world. Ready to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. Barack Obama is ready to be President of the United States."

• "People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power."

To our mind, Clinton's speech was equal parts passion and policy and sent a strong and unmistakable signal to those who supported his wife's candidacy that now was the time to fall in line...."

(WaPo)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:24 PM

The media treated Bill Clinton like he was some sort of great president,
when in fact, he, along with George 'W', are the two worst presidents we ever had, excluding the next one.....
Yes, they were emotionally charged speeches, that played well with the audience(even the Fox 'news' commentators look shell shocked when it was over), but it still DOES NOT CHANGE the FACT, that they were also very inaccurate. I'm really surprised that some of the public has such an gluttonous appetite, for absolute bullshit. Must taste good to the ears, but it's pure political yadda yadda crap, and the truth wasn't part of it...just 'feelie good' diarrhea spewing forth to the truth starved masses!..and you just lap it up with big smiles on your faces, begging for more!!
I remember a woman who needed some 'positive' attention desperately, so much, that she'd tell people, 'Just lie to me, tell me anything, I just need to 'FEEL' like I'm desired...' A tip of the iceberg! So, ok you got emotionally stirred up, and that equates to what, realistically???
Nothing!!!..Hot political air. Maybe you can fiddle while Rome burns!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:27 PM

dear Guest, Sanity sawz

I have continued to fiddle. What is my alternative, quit?

Indeed BS is BS. I don't believe in absolute BS or Pure BS, its just BS, like your rant.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:31 PM

"I remember a woman who needed some 'positive' attention desperately, so much, that she'd tell people, 'Just lie to me, tell me anything, I just need to 'FEEL' like I'm desired...'"

A "friend", huh? Is that what happened to you and you're making up for it? lol

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:33 PM

This part of an Election campaign is exactly like a new relationship.

You expect them to lie to you and kiss your ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:40 PM

Ebbie, once again the Juneau cold salt air has got to you...did I say 'a friend'?? With the distortions you reply with, and the mis-assumptions you foster, you should be a political adviser. Always wanting to start a fight over stuff you make up, and misinterpret!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:52 PM

Here is a suggestion,

Only respond to "from sanity" when she makes sense. Responding to the gibberish is like rewarding a puppy for peeing on the floor.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:52 PM

Donuel, God Bless you for fiddling..and using a real fiddle!! In your case, KEEP FIDDLING!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:55 PM

"The media treated Bill Clinton like he was some sort of great president"

He was. He wasn't perfect, I did not agree with him on a number of issues and concerns, but he was a great president. No contest.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 12:56 PM

"It is the most repetitive theme of Clinton's political life: that he always finds a path to redemption when he is down, and in many ways he proved that again with this speech. And he might also have accomplished something larger and less self-centered -- by doing all he could to bring Obama up at the same time."

HuffPost's Rachel Sklar is wowed:

"For the record, I always said that Bubba would bring it -- and tonight, he did, along with each of those 18 million cracks. Brand Clinton was at stake here, and Hill and Bill delivered the one-two Clinton punch that proved that their claim on the hearts and minds of the Democratic party was not entirely misplaced. You know, just as Clinton (and others, including me) said that the campaign had strengthened Obama and made him better, the same can be said of the Clintons. The power couple that has showed its combined -- and individual -- mettle over the past few days is not the same as it would have been had they been swept smoothly back into power on a wave of inevitability. Obama may be the nominee for president, but the Clintons are back -- not only at the head of the Democratic party, but at long last, back in its heart."

And how about the running mate?

"After Clinton," says Slate's John Dickerson, "there wasn't much oxygen in the room for Joe Biden. But he didn't need to deliver the most beautiful speech. That's not his job. His job is to use his quirky approachability to introduce Obama to voters who have been skeptical about him. A guy named Barack needs a guy named Joe as his running mate. (In political-speak, they call this being the validator.) . . .



(WaPo review of DNC Day 3)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:04 PM

From Peggy Noonan:

"Strickland said of George W. Bush that he was born on third and then stole second. It didn't get much attention in any of the commentary, but it's all people were talking about in the bars of Denver that night.

I'll end with Ted Kennedy's speech. It was a small masterpiece of generosity. Not only that he showed up, not only that he spoke, but that with every right to speak of himself and his career, with every right to speak about his family and his memories and the lessons he's learned and the great things he's seen, with all the right to dwell on those things he produced: a speech about Barack Obama. Telling America to vote for him. How classy was that? Very.

"

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:07 PM

This Convention has been mute about the IMMIGRATION ISSUE.

As mute as the dems have been,
the Republicans are going to be loud and clear for shutting borders, building walls, ICE raids and even some unconstituional fixes.

This will get a second look by virtually everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:10 PM

Tonight, we'll see the "go", lassy, and I think we'll hear some very viable policies and plans.

Your willingness to dismiss political speeches as all BS is disingenuous. They are BS by their nature, they have to address the general, the broad conitions of the moment, and the temper of the time.

But there is meaningful BS and there is duplicitous, misleading BS.

Yesterday's speeches were meaningful despite their necessary BS.

They made it clear that there is some kind of hope for a compassionate and intelligent nation rather than a merely cunning and aggressive one, as has formed up under Bush and is projected by McCain.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:11 PM

I haven't seen any balloons. I bet this is a green choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:12 PM

On the 45th anniversary of Dr. Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech, the first African American to secure a major party nomination becomes the Democratic Party's candidate for president. Win or lose, Barack Obama has secured his place in history.

Expectations for the Illinois senator to hit it out of the park tonight are high. After all, it was his 2004 Democratic convention speech that started the presidential buzz that helped put him on his path to the nomination.

Senior Obama adviser David Axelrod told reporters Wednesday that Obama has written most of the speech himself, and he studied the convention addresses of former presidents. In particular, Axelrod said Obama found inspiration in Bill Clinton's 1992 address, Ronald Reagan's 1980 address, and John F. Kennedy's 1960 address.

He will speak at Invesco Field at Mile High before approximately 75,000 attendees. Colorado Gov. Bill Ritter will also speak tonight.

While Obama was not scheduled to appear before Thursday, he showed a little leg Wednesday night when he came on stage following vice presidential candidate Joe Biden's convention address. Biden was nominated by acclamation prior to his speech.

(Wall Street Journal)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:19 PM

The Republicans are OUTRAGED by the fancy podium for Obama in Invesco Stadium!!!!
IT is a Greek Temple says Rush Limbaugh.
FoX even shows the real Parthenon next to Obama.
They say it was designed by the same firm that does Brittany Spears sets. Great Gods of FIRE!#&(




In response John McCain should stand on a "genuine Soapbox" for his convention,,,,,that should show people that he is not an elitist.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:30 PM

"Expectations for the Illinois senator to hit it out of the park tonight are high."

The problem is, anyone can have a bad day.   Does anyone remember Bill Clinton's speech to the DNC at the 1988 convention? He was soundly booed and his career was written off. It made his comeback in 1992 even more surprising.

Not that anyone expects Obama to falter, but anything can happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:54 PM

Here are untouched photos I made of the FOX coverage of the Democrat"ic" Convention.

I present them to you without caption

#1
#2
#3

#4
#5
#6

#7
#8

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:06 PM

"History was made last night when the Democratic Party nominated Illinois Sen. Barack Obama as its candidate for president of the United States. He's the first African-American presidential nominee of a major party.

Both newly-tapped vice presidential candidate Joe Biden, the senior senator from Delaware, and former President Bill Clinton took to the Pepsi Center stage to rally behind Obama and encourage other Democrats to do the same.

But perhaps the more emotional high point came earlier yesterday as Sen. Senator Hillary Clinton set aside months of political rivalry, and motioned to have Obama declared the Democratic nominee by acclamation."...NPR

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:08 PM

Fox shows Podium

Fox honors Hillary

compare this exposure to

THIS ONE

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:15 PM

Fox have something against Greeks as well?   If they took a few minutes to do some sightseeing around Washington DC they might notice that every building seems to use the same architecture. It ia amazing what those whipping boys at Fox will do for their supreme leader.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:22 PM

You know Fox doesn't have to go all the way to Greece to find a building with pillars like that.

Obama how unamerican to copy from This building!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:24 PM

Is that the Lincoln Memorial or Rupert Murdoch's swimming pool cabana?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:39 PM

Looks like the Republicants enjoy a good Greek column as much as the rest of us:

2004 Republican National Convention - Madison Square Garden

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:42 PM

Of course. Since Obama is just 4 more years of the Nush policies, but in a pretty wrapper, why shouldn't he use Bush's backdrop?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:44 PM

Naturally. And because the Republicants enjoy flip-flopping, I guess that is why it is okay for Fox News to make fun of the design.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:46 PM

Yep. As long as it is for the other side, it is bad, evil, and not to be considered.

If it is for the side of Good and Justice, anyything goes and one cannot criticise it.


Just ask Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:50 PM

You mean THIS ONE, BB? That would be a lie if he used it, just as it was when Bush used it.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 03:14 PM

Kerry used the Saratoga Carrier so we have been there and done that.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 06:32 PM

I think you are about as wrong as you could get about the Nush policies, BB. Barack doesn't even LIKE Nush.

Did you even LISTEN last night ?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 06:50 PM

The final night of the Democratic National Convention -- an open-air affair at the home of the Denver Broncos -- will feature Barack Obama's acceptance speech, an all-star lineup of entertainers, and perhaps a big-name surprise.

The Illinois senator, who was officially nominated Wednesday night in the DNC's final night at the Pepsi Center, will give his acceptance speech sometime between 8 and 9 p.m. MDT Thursday at Invesco Field at Mile High in front of some 75,000 spectators.

The "prime time" speech will be carried live by all broadcast and cable networks covering the convention. The evening will also feature performances by several music stars, DNC officials announced.

Colorado jam-rock group Yonder Mountain String Band is scheduled to play sometime before the opening gavel at about 3 p.m. MDT. Academy Award winning actress and "American Idol" finalist Jennifer Hudson is slated to sing the national anthem.

Between 5 and 6 p.m. MDT, will.i.am -- member of the hip-hop group Black Eyed Peas -- will perform, accompanied by John Legend on piano, the official schedule shows. Singer Sheryl Crow is also scheduled for that hour. Then, between 6 and 7 p.m. MDT, soul legend Stevie Wonder will perform. Between 7 and 8 p.m., singer Michael McDonald is on the bill.

As for the surprise, rumors have been circulating for days that rocker Bruce Springsteen -- who has endorsed Obama -- would perform Thursday night shortly before or after the candidate's speech.

Springsteen's tune "The Rising" has been an Obama campaign theme and a recording of it was played Wedneday when the candidate made a suprise appearance after vice presidential nominee Joe Biden's acceptance speech at the Pepsi Center.Veteran Rocky Mountain News pop-music critic Mark Brown reported Monday that "multiple sources," which he didn't name, had confirmed to him that Springsteen and fellow New Jersey rocker Jon Bon Jovi would perform at Invesco.

Other media have attribued the rumor to Obama aides. But on Wednesday, both Politico and Atlantic Monthly reported on their websites that Springsteen would not be playing at Invesco, both citing an unnamed Obama aide.

Whether or not "The Boss" appears, the evening will feature speeches by several Colorado political leaders. Between 3 and 5 p.m., the schedule includes Gov. Bill Ritter and U.S. Reps. Ed Perlmutter, John Salazar and Diana DeGette, as well as Denver Host Committee chairwoman Elbra Wedgeworth. Between 6 and 7 p.m., U.S. Rep. Mark Udall -- candidate for U.S. Senate -- will address delegates.

The evening will also offer talks by Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean, Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, and (shortly before 7 p.m.) former Vice President Al Gore. At this point, the weather looks favorable for the address.

The National Weather Service forecast for downtown Denver for Thursday night calls for "mostly clear [conditions], with a low around 54. East wind at 10 mph becoming south." Daytime temperatures should reach about 81, the Weather Service predicts.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:04 PM

One of James Dobson's minions has been publicly praying for rain tonight. could the nice weather be a sign? A rebuke even?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:27 PM

Listen to Sen. John Salazar. We are quite proud of him as well as the rest of them! The weather is gorgeous!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:36 PM

Conservative pundits evidently consider the "stage setting" at the Broncos stadium more evidence that Obama envisions himself as a Roman emperor wannebee. Geez, why don't they just call him uppity? I mean the very idea that he should aspire to occupy the White House is an affront to most elitist Republicans, especially those who were born with a silver spoon in their ear or some other orifice.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:39 PM

Stevie Wonder!!! Wooooooo Hooooooooo!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 09:19 PM

Check out all those generals. How many do they have up there, anyway, a couple dozen?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Lox
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 09:25 PM

I liked Gore.

He was brief and to the point which is a rarity at events like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 09:33 PM

Wow. I just saw the lineup of generals nnd admirals- as Carol C said, it looked like more than twenty of them.

I should think the McCain camp's collective hearts sank. After all McCain is the military man, Obama the upstart, and yet these military bigwigs chose Obama to support.

Ah, well, John McCain can bring out his big guns too- George W Bush, Karl Rove, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Lumbaugh and Joe Lieberman.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 09:54 PM

McCain, as I recall, made it up to Captain before retiring after (as I recall) 20-odd years.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 11:26 PM

Here's what the general who spoke has to say about Obama: Click Here.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 11:51 PM

I think they did a better job tonight of making a case for their candidate than any other Democratic convention I've seen so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 11:56 PM

John McCain has a very, very hard act to follow after tonight's performance by President Obama. I mean, Nominee. He was impeccable -- kind, insightful, clear-spoken, forceful and compassionate, with clear specific programs and policies, and a high level of rationale and a platform not only of party, but of national unity. Something much worth restoring.


Home run, with the bases loaded.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 11:59 PM

Life transformative.

The chains of paralyzing cynacism turned to dust from the power of his words.

If there is one more thing he could master as the Lincolnesque orator of our times, it would be the ability to tell a funny and ironic story to humanize on every level of the human psyche.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 12:16 AM

It was tremendous. Sorry to say some of the callers to Cspan afterwards must've been paid to dis him...one went so far as to say we shouldn't vote for a "black socialist!" Doo,doo,doo,doo!

I was really thrilled as he hit another stride going into the MLKJr. stuff...wow!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 12:23 AM

f those defining moments - a moment when our nation is at war, our economy is in turmoil and the American promise has been threatened once more," Obama told the Democratic National Convention crowd. "This moment - this election - is our chance to keep, in the 21st century, the American promise alive."

Obama stood amid a crowd of 80,000 Democrats, reporters and spectators who had come to witness history as he became the first black nominated by his party to be president.


Millions more watched the televised event in living rooms across America in a speech that was delivered amid high expectations because of its critical importance in launching the next phase of Obama's presidential campaign.

Obama swatted aside accusations that he is weak on foreign policy, pledging to rebuild the military, end the war in Iraq and finish the job in Afghanistan.

"We are the party of Roosevelt. We are the party of Kennedy," he said. "So don't tell me that Democrats won't defend this country. Don't tell me that Democrats won't keep us safe.

"As commander-in-chief, I will never hesitate to defend this nation, but I will only send our troops into harm's way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle and the care and benefits they deserve when they come home," he said. "I will end this war in Iraq responsibly, and finish the fight against al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan."

He also boldly brushed off Republican criticism that he would be a tax-and-spend Democrat, pledging to cut capital gains taxes for small businesses and put more money in Americans' pockets.

"I will cut taxes - cut taxes - for 95 percent of all working families," he said. "Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle class."

He also went on the offensive, sharply criticizing President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, urging the need to end the GOP's reign in Washington.

"America, we are better than these last eight years. We are a better country than this," he said in remarks prepared for release last night. "Next week, in Minnesota, the same party that brought you two terms of George Bush and Dick Cheney will ask this country for a third.

"And we are here because we love this country too much to let the next four years look just like the last eight. On November 4th, we must stand up and say: 'Eight is enough.' "

Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, beaming with enthusiasm for his friend, made his way through the throngs of supporters crammed onto the stadium field and called the event "amazing."

"We saw a leader tonight and the next president of the United States," Patrick said after the speech.

Bay State Sen. John Kerry, the party's 2004 nominee, pronounced Obama's performance "superb."

"He was just tremendous," Kerry said. "He did everything he had to do...

---

He was, indeed, tremendous. He was clear, straight, on top of every line and as Presidential as any man who ever sat in the Oval Office.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:18 AM

Just been reading the posts....some really shallow stuff there! No mention of his accomplishments or his policies that most people think about..or that effect all of us....Any word on dissolving our borders, without even getting the public's feedback..??Same with our currency, and form of money..not a word...immigration....shhhh....getting our rights back, from all that was done in the Bush years(make that Bush, Clinton, Bush,jr,...not to mention the president Bush heaped upon himself the most sweeping, additions of power to the presidency, in our history...is Obama going to get rid of them...or ..(?). Waffling on the middle east??....and just HOW, or what's his plan, specifically to turn the economy around, more than just saying, 'We'll do it'?? And by the way, 'Change'...?..what to?..another form of government, without the will of the people???..the government enacting more 'safeguards' (read: intrusion), into our lives?..Why not?...they tell us we need them to do everything else for us?
And Amos, my dear pal Amos, you should re-read your posts! You sound like a gullible naive, starry eyed adolescent with a jar of Vaseline, as big as a basketball!
Maybe the reason for the stage, being just like the Greek Gods, and just like Bush's...ever stop to think, its run by the same outfit, with a great big propaganda media, to keep us blind, and/or distracted from the real throne of power??? ..of which is not elected??
Anyway..its obvious....all hype, no substance!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 08:37 AM

He lost me after about five minutes in. I heard the same old promises of turning around the economy, improving education, yadayadayada. Four years from now we will see.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 09:17 AM

Even the cynical CNN correspondents were still impressed the morning after, and McKain was gracious enough to comment "Well done, Senator!"

Obama did what he needed to do, and then some.

I'm sorry it was insufficient to address all of Janet's concerns. She'll just have to continue supporting Nader.

My major quarrel with Obama has to do with his proposed energy policy, it's reliance on a revived nuclear power industry and so-called clean coal; I still worry about the nuclear waste and the environmental impact of all the ground water discharged after "cleaning up the coal." But I suppose I'll just have to read more.

It was a great speech, and the speeches leading up to Obama's were well staged and presented. I do like Obama's line in response to the McKain campaign "celebrity" critique: "It's not about me; it's about you!"

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 09:44 AM

"Let me spell out exactly what change would mean if I am president," he said midway through the speech, then proceeded to launch into a list of dozens of specifics about tax policy, health care plans, and his foreign-policy perspective. He was even specific about his vision of bipartisanship, calling for the middle ground on abortion, gun laws, same-sex marriage, and immigration. For a time, the speech felt downright dull, as if his newfound reconciliation with Bill Clinton was so thorough that he'd taken on the former president's passion for laundry-list speeches. (Slate)

---

You can drool and mock until the cows come home, GoS, and invent all the clever sharp-tongued invalidations your dark and bruittle mind wants to make you feel safe. My enthusiasm, however, is not jejeune, callow, or undiscriminating. It is the result of an infectious belief that things can get better, but that they are not improved by carping and divisiveness.

He provided a specific list of platform issues, yet you say his speech lacked substance. Perhaps a sharp blow from a 2x4 would impress you?

From US News: "Sen. Barack Obama's speech last night in Denver is receiving nearly universal praise from political analysts and media commentators in particular when it came to assessments of the Senator's poise and delivery. A number of reports proclaim the address as something close to a home-run for Obama, seeing his sharp criticism of Sen. McCain as a shrewd political move. On its front page, for example, the Washington Post calls the speech "what many nervous Democrats were hoping for: a forceful challenge to John McCain and the Republicans, and a restatement of the message to change Washington and the nation that propelled him to the nomination." The New York Times similarly reports on its front page, "Good, great or something else," Obama's speech "unquestionably confronted two of his greatest challenges. One was to help voters, in emotion-laden language, to connect his promise of 'change' to more earthly policy proposals," and "the other to show he could take the fight to...McCain over Mr. Obama's own image and the best way forward for the nation."

In a front-page analysis titled "Obama Gets It In Gear With Acceptance Speech," the Los Angeles Times says that Obama's campaign "has seemed stuck in neutral," and the speech "was a desperately needed opportunity to relaunch his campaign and redefine his image," and the Times believes he did so with "a sharp-edged, almost populist, economic message, aimed directly at the middle-income voters who have been reluctant to sign up for his crusade."

USA Today describes the speech as "filled with promises of generational change and a better America," and the New York Times refers to Obama's "cutting language" and to the "cheers that echoed across the stadium." McClatchy notes "an estimated 84,000 people jammed the football stadium," and adds Obama "tied McCain squarely to President Bush." The Washington Times refers to Obama's "soaring oratory," with "the grandeur of the Rocky Mountains as a backdrop." In another front page story, the Washington Post says that the speech yesterday "proved the greatest testament yet to the intensity of Barack Obama's support and the enthusiasm for his candidacy that his party hopes will carry him to the White House."..."Commentators lavished praise on Obama's delivery. David Gergen said on CNN that the speech "opened up an important and legitimate debate the Republicans will carry on about issues," but "as a speech, I was deeply impressed. In many ways it was less a speech than a symphony." Carl Bernstein, on CNN, called it a "transformational speech, maybe the greatest I've ever heard at a convention since Kennedy." Keith Olbermann, on MSNBC immediately after the speech ended said, "Vote for him or do not, but take pride that this nation can produce men and speakers such as that." In her New York Post column, Fox News analyst Kirsten Powers writes Obama "hit all the themes he needed to."

  The praise was bipartisan. GOP Pollster Frank Luntz, on Fox News said, "I have been to eight conventions. I have never seen a convention where there are more people standing throughout the entire speech because they felt this was so historic, so special." The Weekly Standard's Bill Kristol, on Fox News, said Obama's "direct assault on John McCain's campaign slogan was effective. He said, 'I got news for you, we all put our country first.' That is McCain's slogan 'Country First.' By directly confronting it, Obama is now challenging McCain... 'Are you saying that not only do you disagree with me, but I, Barack Obama, and those that are with me here, don't put country first?' I think that's a tough challenge for McCain."

Editorial reaction this morning is also positive. The Los Angeles Times editorializes, "Obama had to negotiate a fine line. The throng in Denver's football stadium was eagerly awaiting the eloquence and idealism that propelled him to the pinnacle of national politics. At the same time, he had to counter the Republicans' caricature of those qualities as nothing more than the callow charisma of a political rock star. ... To a considerable extent, Obama accomplished that feat." The New York Times editorializes, "One test of a presidential candidate's strength, and often his best shot at winning, is how much he can mold his party in his image and rally it around a powerful argument for his election." Obama "left Denver having made significant progress on both fronts." The Washington Post editorializes that Obama "left no doubt of his commitment, one that we share, to vigorous international engagement, the fight against terrorism and the urgency of promoting prosperity in the developing world." USA Today editorializes that Obama "helped himself Thursday night, but if the polls are right, he'll need to build his case further during the next nine weeks if he is to become the first black president, not just the first black nominee."...

Maybe you're accustomed to being in a hypercritical minority, lassie, but you might want to reflect on how that occurs.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 09:45 AM

"just HOW, or what's his plan, specifically to turn the economy around"

If you were listening you would have heard the answer to your question. Go back and watch or at least read the speech. However, it does seem like your mind was made up before he ever opened his mouth.

ALL speeches are full of hyperbole and boasts, but a good speech can break down misconceptions and strengthen positions.   Obama did something that NO Democrat has done in decades - he positioned himself as a true patriot and embraced America and the values we hold with pride.   Sure, other Democrats play lipservice, and the Republicans have wrapped their ass in the flag for years. But Obama spoke from the heart and he convinced his audience that our nation does stand for something, no matter what the Republicans and neocons have done to knock us down.

It was a brilliant speech and for those who were on the fence, it should have erased fears and the talking points that scum like Limbaugh have been spewing for years.   The playing field has been leveled.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 10:11 AM

Obama has placed himself directly in the path of the Rand Corporation policies and other re[publican think tanks that have governed this nation for 40 years.
The Rand Corporation engineers policy that will grant only the top 1% of America with all the promises of America and its Constitution and leave the rest of working America to die or slave for rich masters for even less reward.

Limiting Education only to the priviledged class is the key for the super wealthy to control America uncontested for hundreds of years.

Law and order will then jail the human refuse that is unemployed and obtain true slave labor in prisons.

The social engineering is so ugly you may not want to take a fresh look at what is going on aroung you.

It has happened and we must say NO MORE. We must stop the rape of the American dream for all and heal as we hold our ground and begin to move forward again.

He promises to hold his ground and move the promise forward for working American citizens.

The Republicans who support Socialist Corporate handouts get their cut. Some of us have never even seen how the true ELITE live.
They feel entitled to break any law to preserve and expand their kingdoms. IT becomes pathological for the true elite to do whatever it takes to not change a thing. They feel entitled to break every law of nature and man to hold on to their right of unbelievable wealth and the expense of the unwashed public, the underpriviledged, the "minorities".

We are not the minority folks. Look behind the curtain.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 10:22 AM

If we do not overcome our cynacism that the elite will rule us forever, so why bother,    we will lose this election

IT will take another 40 years to come to a moment like this again.

The elite used the system and have perverted it to an unrecognisable machine of Democracy for a $5million cover charge...all others are not admitted.

We can use the system or we can turn ourselves to dust from war and hunger.

The choice is yours but the hard work that it will take is for everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: pdq
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 10:31 AM

Can someone explain why Nancy Pelosi was not given more attention. Shouldn't she have been given at least 20 minutes for a rousing speach, raising the rafters with applause and cementing her position as the most powerful female in US history? Hillary is just a second tier Senator and her hubby is retired. Nancy Pelosi right there with Senate leader Reid as far as power. Together they have had more to do with the country's policies in the last two years than even the sitting VP.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 10:41 AM

If the worst his opponents can say about the speech is that Obama's really, really popular and go on to ridicule people who are inspired and believe in dreams, they have some serious problems. (Not the least of which is frustration that they don't have somebody better.)

SINS, he lost me about 5 minutes in, but I kept listening. It got better... a LOT better. I thought Olberman and Matthews were going to wet themselves. I sort of expected Olberman to praise Obama, but Matthews seemed very emotional afterward, and that surprised me.

I think it's fine to believe in the man and to believe in dreams. He'll get elected. Then we can watch to see how well he fulfills his promise.

Things only have no chance of improving when people stop trying.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 10:48 AM

Their attempts to discredit him were pretty pathetic:

When the temple comes down, the fireworks end, and the words are over, the facts remain: Senator Obama still has no record of bipartisanship," campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds wrote in an e-mail. "The fact remains: Barack Obama is still not ready to be president."

Do you suppose they click their heels three times and believe if they say it enough, it will be true?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 10:51 AM

Nancy opened on day 1 and she spoke diretly after Obama last night.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:01 AM

She seemed somewhat in the weeds last night, but how do you follow something like that speech?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: irishenglish
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:03 AM

That's a good point about Pelosi pdq, but I'm a little surprised to hear you say that, after what you have said in the past about her.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:11 AM

He's far more prepared and ready to be President than Tucker Bounds is to run a campaign. WHere Barack speaks with compassion and insight, and a care for the lives of those around him, Tucker snarks with canned cavils and tries to make himself look right at all costs.

I was especially impressed with Hillary and Bill Clinton; they stood up to the moment and performed flawlessly and with grace.




A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: pdq
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:13 AM

It is just a simple fact that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are the two most powerful Democrats extant. They should be acting as leaders in every aspect of the Democratic convention and telling the American people exactly what problems they intend to address and exactly what legislation they will be introducing. The country has problems and the medicine show shouid have been accompanied by some medicine.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:17 AM

The senator from Illinois on Thursday night laid out his road map for improving the U.S. economy and heralding the country into an era of change.

"The change we need doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington," he told supporters at Invesco Field at the Democratic National Convention. "Change happens because the American people demand it -- because they rise up and insist on new ideas and new leadership, a new politics for a new time."

iReporters across the country watched Obama's speech on television, and many said his address won their vote.

"As of August 28, 2008, I am officially voting for Barack Obama," Melody Munroe of Norfolk, Virginia, wrote on iReport.com.

Munroe described herself as "a very harsh critic of Obama's." She voted for a Republican candidate, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, during the presidential primaries, saying she never considered supporting Obama in the election.

"After I got past all the rumors about him ... I was finally able to really look into the man he really is," she said.

Don't Miss
Obama's milestone inspires iReporters
Transcript of Obama's speech
iReport.com: Share your thoughts on Obama's speech
Munroe said many of the speeches during the first three nights of the Democratic convention left her unimpressed, but she said Obama's address inspired her.

"I was moved," Munroe said. "For the first time I actually felt like there was some hope at the end of the tunnel."

As a military spouse, Munroe said she was impressed with Obama's plans for improving health care for veterans.

"I was tired of just taking what the Republican Party kept saying at face value," she said. "Obama is our only hope for change."

Janie Lambert of Knoxville, Tennessee, who had backed Obama's former Democratic rival, Sen. Hillary Clinton, said, "He won me over."

She added, "It was very emotional. I never thought I would feel this way after hearing him speak."

Lambert, who voted for President Bush in 2000 and 2004, said she votes for the candidate she feels is the best choice, not based on the political party.

Thursday's speech convinced her to vote for Obama, she said. "I have at long last decided to support this man for president," she said.

Keith Cooper of Tampa, Florida, voted for Clinton in the primaries, pointing to her experience in the Senate and as first lady.

Cooper, a longtime Democrat, said Obama's address moved him "to tears of joy."

He described the speech as a "powerful, inspirational and informative discourse of hope."

Cooper also said he was happy with Obama's choice of Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware as his running mate. He said that Biden, who's been in the Senate more than 30 years, will have "experience, filling in places where Barack is learning."

Obama offers "fresh ideas, his ability to unite the parties and his charisma," Cooper said.

Mary Kopczknski joined a crowd Thursday night in New York's Times Square to watch Obama's speech. A former supporter of Clinton's, Kopczynski said she had considered voting for Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain in the general election.

Kopcynski said she was looking for Obama to lay out specific plans during his acceptance speech.

"Ironically, what I found most impressive was the loftiness of his speech," she said. "It really sealed the deal that we do need to have change right now and that he is the better person than John McCain."

Like Kopcynski, former Clinton supporter Vincent Yau of Knoxville, Tennessee, said he was hoping for substance in Obama's speech.

Yau said he was impressed by Obama's energy plans. During the speech, Obama laid out a specific promise to invest $150 billion over a decade in "affordable, renewable sources of energy."

"I would liken the 10-year term to what John Kennedy said when he wanted to put a man on the moon," Yau said.

iReporter Caroline, who declined to give her last name, said she worried that Obama on Thursday night "wasn't going to be able to top himself."

Caroline, a staunch Clinton supporter, posted glowing reviews of the former first lady's convention speech Tuesday and former President Clinton's speech the following night to iReport.com.

"I didn't think [Obama] could top Hillary or Bill or even himself for that matter," she wrote. "But he did."

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: irishenglish
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:19 AM

Well rightly or wrongly pdq, while Pelosi and Reid are as you say, the two most powerful Democrats constitutionally now, the sad truth is not the most recognizable name to average Americans. Ask most people to name a couple of Democrats of any office, and they will most likely not be the answer. It would probably be Obama, the Clintons, Gore, Ted Kennedy. Not saying that's a good thing, but that's the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:23 AM

The last eight years have me so disgusted with politicians and their agendas that I openly admit that I am cynical and angry. I will vote for Obama but I just can't get caught up in the hype. He will be president not the Second Coming. He will accomplish only as much as the Senate and Congress allow him to accomplish. So once again our country is in the hands of career politicians lining their pockets, soliciting men in rest rooms and covering their asses.
Sorry for the rant.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 11:53 AM

You're missing the point, Sins. Last night he re-iterated: "this has never been about me. It's about you."

THAT is the reason I have been giving what little spare time and change I have to this campaign. THAT is why I poke my daughters, make them look, pay attention, help, get involved, ask, question, challenge, even though they can't vote yet.

THAT is why when Bill Clinton came to my little town just before the primaries there were MAYBE 200 people, tops, who came to see him, and when Obama came the next week, there were 18,000 (I said eighteen THOUSAND!)shiny, happy, engaged, young, old, black, white, all FLAVORS of people out to see him, and listen to him challenge THEM to work on figuring out the problems that face their own communities.

He GETS that no one man, or woman, or whatever, can tackle the mess we're in alone. But sometimes, one man can inspire the PEOPLE to take it on.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: pdq
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 12:07 PM

Oh, Dani...you dropped your pom pom

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 12:16 PM

" you dropped your pom pom "

There is absolutely nothing wrong with carrying a "pom pom". To be enthusiastic and share a feeling about why a candidate appeals to you should be encouraged.

I'm guessing that conservatives are squirming right now and attempts to deflate are going to be popular. Don't give in! It is enthusiasm that allows change to flourish. We need to get past the conservative values that are bringing this country down. Keep cheering! Yes we can!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 12:17 PM

Well said, Dani!!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 12:58 PM

PDQ:

Your dripping sarcasm does you a disservice. You'r e better than that.

AN appreciation of the extraordinary history made last night and the night before, and an appreciation of the quite extraordinary man at the center of it, should not be dismissed shallowly as cheerleading. These are highly unusual times, and they call for all the high ethical standards and clear thinking and solid principle-based reasoning we can come up with. That Obama has come up with some is to his credit, not grounds for facemaking.

Mockery has no place in this debate, sir.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: pdq
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:02 PM

Sure are some humorless prats running around here.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:02 PM

Courtland Cox stood on a podium with the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1963 and listened to a dreamer.

On Thursday night, exactly 45 years later, Cox watched Sen. Barack Obama become something else.

"The Democrats have a fighter now," said Cox, a business consultant in Washington, D.C. "He was both intellectual and emotional. He understands that you don't bring a pillow to a gunfight."

Cox is one of a group of people who are living bookends to two transformative moments in U.S. history. They personally watched King deliver his iconic "I have a dream" speech. And they watched Obama deliver his acceptance speech after becoming the first African-American major-party presidential nominee in the nation's history.

The notion that their lives could encompass both historic events left some of them inspired and baffled.

"I've been in search for the right words, and the closest thing that I can come up with is 'surreal,'" Peter Williams III said. He was 10 years old when his family took him to the 1963 March on Washington.

Although each witness touched on the symbolism of Obama's link with King, they kept returning to a more earthbound theme. They said they had never heard Obama sound so tough and assured.

During his 50-minute speech, the culmination of the Democratic Party's four-day national convention in Denver, Obama went right after his Republican opponent John McCain.

He said McCain was out of touch and wrong on the Iraq War, energy policy, health care and the environment.

"He showed some muscle," said Williams III, an IBM salesman in Marietta, Georgia, who watched the speech from his home. "He squared off and went toe-to-toe."

The Rev. Albert Cecil Williams -- no relation to Williams III -- also attended the March on Washington in 1963. He said he had to get up and shout in his San Francisco, California, living room when he heard Obama speak.

It's the same reaction he had when he heard King shout "Free at last!" to the cheering crowd at the Lincoln Memorial 45 years ago, he said.

Williams is the founding pastor of Glide Memorial Church in San Francisco. He said he and his family slipped into the call-and-response ritual of the black church as Obama spoke. They began to shout "Yes! Come on! Make it work!" at the TV screen.

They were fired up because they had never seen Obama so fired up, he said.

"He stood tall," Williams said. "I had not seen him convey that kind of commitment. He seemed to be operating from a place of strength."

Williams III, the salesman in Georgia, said Obama could do today what King couldn't do in 1963 -- show some righteous anger.

"Back then, you would be viewed differently if you showed anger," he said. "You could be angry but you had to show that you were not dangerous, especially if you were a black man."

Hearing the dream in person

As these witnesses to history talked about Obama, they also reflected on that humid afternoon in August when they heard King give his "I Have a Dream" speech.

They said they couldn't have imagined seeing a black man poised to enter the White House on that day in 1963.

"For a black person to say back then that 'I'm going to run for president' would be like someone saying 'I'm going to walk to Mars,'" Cox, one of the organizers of the March on Washington, said. ...

(CNN)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:04 PM

Amos

Extreme partisan Republicans will never listen to what Obama has to say. They'll always repeat the talking points. Lets hope that in the administrations of President Obama there are fewer and fewer partisans.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:37 PM

No humor?

NO humor?!

If you knew me, you'd laugh yourself silly at the idea of me with a pom pom : )

The very best thing about Obama is his vision of this country that is NOT black and white (double entendre intended), or blue and red (as he talked about last night), or North and South, or have- and have-not, and his faith in the individuals who are the ONLY ones who have the power to make it so.

In the end, the cynics will either get on the boat, or risk being left out of the fun. Sitting home bitching never fixed a thing. Ever.

[and while I'm at it, folks, sitting home with an Obama sticker on your car and cheering at the polls on tv won't elect a President, either. Get out this weekend and register voters!!!]

Joy does, indeed, prevail.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:40 PM

Extreme partisan Democrats will never listen to what McCain has to say. They'll always repeat the talking points. Lets hope that in the administrations of President McCain people will continue to be allowed to have their own opinions, unlike the wish for the Obama administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:01 PM

Dani with a pom pom? I hope Kendall doesn't visit this thread. Jacqui is out of town and there's no telling...


Back to the subject at hand:
I agree - sitting at home bitching accomplishes nothing.I never have. I am out and about doing what I can for whomever I can whenever I can. BUT I no longer trust politicians to do what is right unless it is in their interest, unless it is likely to get them re-elected or moved up in the power scheme.
The Democrats have been calling me for donations to Obama's campaign. Their intro - "The Republicans have..." I interrupt with the brutal truth - the Democrats not only allowed but voted with the Republicans. I am disgusted with them all.
That said - I am amazed and proud to see in my lifetime a woman seriously considered for the presidency and a black man nominated.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:08 PM

God, Bruce, can't you write a single sentence of your own? Do you think this clever trick of yours of ttwisting others' words backwards has merit? Have you lived so long against automatons and circuits that you have lost your own, human voice?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:26 PM

Great show. I've been watching it on the BBC Pariamentary channel, given over to the convention this week, since Parliament is not in session.

A bit like a massive version of the Muppet Show, what with all the weaving flags and the idiosyncratic spokespeople popping up to say their bit, who would have been leading up to an inspirational speech by Kermit in Mr Smith goes to Washington mode.

But that's not a put down, whatever it may sound like - I think the Muppets represent a lot of what is best about America. So did Frank Capra movies.

I breathed a sigh of relief when it was all over. Kept thinking of those nuts with sniper rifles who got picked up a couple of days ago, and looking at the size and shape of that stadium, and imagining how a Hollywood movie with like that woudl have been likely to unfold.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:40 PM

"After Bill Clinton spoke Wednesday night, a commentator said that when the former president is on his A-game, nobody does it better. Not true. Barack Obama, judged strictly as a public speaker, is as good as they get. And like every virtuoso, he makes it look effortless.

That doesn't mean the speech succeeded at the only important thing--winning over voters he didn't have before. He spent a little too much time on points aimed at rallying the party faithful and not quite enough on points to persuade the undecided and the skeptical. A show of independence on some issue of Democratic orthodoxy would have gone a long way to demonstrate his backbone and broaden his appeal.

The speech didn't rouse and inspire the way his 2004 convention address did. It was pungent rather than poetic. Flowery passages would only have confirmed the Republican claim that he's just a talented orator, nothing more.

The point was to get voters to think about not just what Obama would do for his country but what, specifically, he would do for them. As politicians in the South used to say, he was putting the hay down where the goats can get it.

He blended affirmative appeals with some pugnacious words aimed at John McCain and George W. Bush, which he badly needed to do. If he wins, it probably won't be because non-Democrats fall in love with Obama. It will be because the electorate gives the answer Democrats want to hear on the question they should be asking every day for the next two months: Had enough?



in Politics | Permalink
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Comments
Did Steve Chapman see this speech? Democrats, Independents and Republicans who saw this speech would have to recognize it as one of the best of all time -- even if they didn't agree with the content... Conservatives tend to try to set the bar high and whether or not the candidate achieves it, criticizes them for it... The pundits ask Obama to get specific about what he would do, but if he recited his 15-point plans on every issue, he would surely be scolded as elitist, as someone who talks down to people, and as someone who is out of touch with the common man. Obama achieved what he needed to achieve with this speech and he was critical of McCain without slandering him as a person. Let's see if conservatives can come close to this ideal.

Posted by: Michael Rohrbeck | Aug 29, 2008 10:40:57 AM


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I think that Barack is a very qualified candidate and has the coerrect mindframe and will power to do the impossible. I am very confident in his abilities to be a good president and hope he wins this election. We need a change. For more blogs, info, and pictures on Barack Obama and the 2008 presidential election, everyone should go to www.Urbanthoughtcollective.com

Posted by: nmaye | Aug 29, 2008 10:51:52 AM..."

WaPo

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:49 PM

Amos,

Perhaps I am being too subtle for you.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE what I say when I just invert to two sides, WHY DO YOU THINK you can say it the other way and not annoy ME?

Didn't you even note the change I did make, to try to show how the supposedly liberal side is more interested in stifling dissent than the evil neo-cons?
JtS:"Lets hope that in the administrations of President Obama there are fewer and fewer partisans. "

bb:"Let's hope that in the administrations of President McCain people will continue to be allowed to have their own opinions, unlike the wish for the Obama administration"

Oh, that's right- YOU are one of the Enlightened Ubermensch, and have a superiour view that mere mortals cannot hope to understand.


In case you were not aware, my one vote is just as valid as yours.
(except that I am in MD, where the Democrats have already determined the results)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:57 PM

"Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention..."


                   It was all negated by McCain's choice of VP...

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 03:53 PM

You mean it didn't happen?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 04:28 PM

Dream on, Rig. Not a whit or a line of it was negated.

Palin was a good shot at a short term flurry of press.

The DNC's days were historic and written to match. The will be part of history when Palin is in a geriatric ward looking for her teeth.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 04:42 PM

...people will continue to be allowed to have their own opinions, unlike the wish for the Obama administration

BB, at what point do you hear or get the idea that The Obama admin. would prohibit you from having an opinion? That's ludicrious. It's rather the other way around in that Bush et al have done their best to shut down, shut up, and detract from anyone who had an opinion contrary to theirs. McCain would perpetuate that, I am sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 04:55 PM

"...when Palin is in a geriatric ward looking for her teeth."


                   And she'll probably find them in Obama's *ss...

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 05:51 PM

I do not argue against anyone's right to have an opinion, but I will call BS if that opinion is presented as fact or based on mere hatefulness and illogic.

Sorry, it's the way I was drawn.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 06:08 PM

Bruce only you could possible consider what you do as subtle.

Wish something is so does not make it so. Finding Democratic Party talking points would be difficult enough, much more than pointing to someone who repeats them. The Democrats just don't campaign that way.

The Democrats don't campaign that way because people inclined to vote for them like to think for themselves.

The Republicans try to appeal to the conformists. Talking points are red meat for people who cheer for their politicians like they cheer for their NASCAR drivers.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 06:10 PM

Rig

The democratic convention forced McCain's hail mary pass of a VP pick.

High Risk possible high reward. Even conservatives have been saying that.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 06:24 PM

Yes, well, that's probably true, the convention and the pick of Joe Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 01:26 AM

Popular views of the convention

Joe Klein in Time: Obama's speech 'very tough'

He stood there not as an orator, but as a plausible chief executive. His message was as tight as a power-point presentation, but far more elegant. And tough — above all, tough: not an egghead, not Adlai Stevenson. No, tonight Barack Obama was a politician from the south side of Chicago, ready for the brawl of his life

How did Barack Obama do?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 01:30 AM

Conservative Republican, former speech-writer, presidential adviser and erstwhile candidate, Pat Buchanan commented on MSNBC that Obama's address was "a genuinely outstanding speech, it was magnificent… This is the greatest convention speech… this came from the heart of America… a deeply centrist speech…" Buchanan read excerpts from the address, slipping himself into the inspired tone used by Obama, and garnering massive applause from an audience gathered behind the commentators on camera. Moderator Keith Olberman noted that he had to "stop Pat Buchanan gushing over Obama's speech for the sake of time."

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 01:44 AM

Yeah Kat,

I never thought I would see Pat talk like that about a Democrat.

He also said it was "a man's speech."

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 01:50 AM

Here is Pat... Wow!!

Check out Rachael and Eugene! They can't believe what they are hearing!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 02:33 AM

That is fecking amazing! I never would have believed there come a day when Buchanan would be so full of praise, etc. of a Democrat!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 10:33 AM

yadda yadda yadda whack-a-doo wack-a-doo!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 10:33 AM

A manly speech

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 11:01 AM

Even the rah rah crowd at MSNBC, had to concede this...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26455458#26455173

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 11:21 AM

Teribus, read the article in the Telegraph. Errant nonsense.
        
        

"Michelle Obama in Denver: She tells a good story but it is not enough
It is the barely concealed contempt that the supporters of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have for each other, undiluted despite the Presidential Election being barely two months away."

This is the story line that the press would have you to believe. It's simply not true.
Actually, the Democratic Party has never been more united. Look at the history.
Jesse Jackson, Jerry Brown all criticized the front-runners and were place in nomination.
It didn't make a difference in who finally got elected. The Telegraph is just more spin.

All elections have airs of tension. So nu?


"Hence a convention, so far, devoted to papering over cracks in the Democratic home rather than savaging and burying the Republicans for their years of misrule."

The columnist who wrote this could not have been at the Convention. Obama was forthright, forceful and eloquent in his condemnation of the Republican misrule.

"The delegates look forward with trepidation to his speech before 75,000 people at Denver's Mile High Stadium on Thursday night."

This is such profound bs that it needs to be framed and hung in an outhouse.

"Some fear this is a hubristic act, that of a man drunk on his own mellifluous oratory and, as the old cliché goes, making the mistake of believing his own publicity."

You could say the same for Winston Churchill or Maggie Thatcher. Utter bs.

"He is a candidate accused of an obsession with image and of putting his distinct personal style ahead of any substance, distinct or otherwise."

The only one accusing him of this are right-wing pundits. Although this would go
double or triple for Bush. McCain is joined at the hip with Bush.

"Mrs Clinton's supporters are mainly bad losers who have taken further umbrage in the last few days that she was not picked to be his vice-presidential running mate; they are not the main danger to Mr Obama, however, even though a poll revealed that 27 per cent of them want to vote for John McCain."

Is the Telegraph for real? What poll? The only ones that are called PUMA's (party unity my ass)'es are McCain shills.   Hillary's supporters overwhelmingly went for Obama.
The Telegraph is out of touch with reality.

"The real problem is those who were open-minded towards Mr Obama but who now fear he may not be up to it; and they are not hard to find in Denver."

And if they think that McCain has the temperament to be a president, they are out
of their minds.

"It is interesting how the Americans, having rejected the British Constitution in 1776, now seem entranced by the idea of what Walter Bagehot (explaining the appeal of monarchy) called the constitutional device of "a family on the throne"."

Utter Tory Crap. The idea of "change" is to reject the family on the throne and bring a
new voice to the politics of the US. As of the last eight years, "too many crooks have spoiled the soup".

"We have had the Bush family ad nauseam, the Kennedys ditto (with old Ted yanked from his sickbed to endorse Mr Obama in a stunt that made On Golden Pond seem light on sentimentality), an attempt at the Clinton family, and now the extended family of the Obamas."

This is scurrilous non-reporting. Obama and his family are a new voice for the US.
The Telegraph doesn't get it that an African-American president is a history shattering event. You never see one in the United Kingdom for example.

"Mrs Obama, eloquent, charismatic, articulate, glamorous, felt obliged to make a speech outlining, among other things, the all-American nature of her parents and brother."

And this is an objective criticism? As if the English Torys don't glorify their Anglo past
with such pomposity that it would fuel a large truck.

"No detail of her father's suffering from multiple sclerosis was too intimate, no reference to her humble upbringing too cloying, to be shared with the American people."

Yes, it is preferred the bloodless, non-human campaigning of a Brit Tory politician.


"Mrs Obama has long since chucked in her job as a stratospherically highly paid lawyer to serve the public in more humble capacities: as she did not hesitate to tell us."

And why not? It's a badge of honor in the US. Compassion here is revered.

"It was a pungent reminder of the differences that remain between our two cultures: any politician, or politician's spouse, who tried to push such a line in Britain would be laughed out of public life.

Yes, the Tory Brits are very cynical and the laughter doesn't come from any compassion or human edifying impulses. Again, bloodless, effete and useless pseudo-intellectualism.

"There is an idealism, or at least a lack of cynicism, in American politics that will be incomprehensible to many in Britain. Family, and its use in politics to identify leaders with the led, is almost a taboo at home."

And yet to deny that this human element plays a role in British politics is sophistry.
Why was the Profumo scandal so important in that case?

"Here it is an essential part of the process. It is part of that property that every candidate for high office here has to have: what Mrs Obama called his, or her, own American story."

And this does give an insight into those who claim temperament for high office here.

The idea that Obama presents a story is somehow interpreted by the Telecrap as lies or myths.


"Mrs Obama continued the theme of sentimentality launched by Senator Kennedy, and perpetuated by various other speakers during the evening."

And the Telecrap tells us that "God Save The Queen" is not the height of sentimental
drivel? Get real.

"As with David Cameron's use of the word (though it appears to have dropped out of his vocabulary) this vacuous term is never defined: we are never told what is changing, and to what."

As in the customary state of denial, the Telecrap refuses to accept that the change is
strictly defined as the policies of Bush and McCain which have ruined our country for the last eight years? Is the Telecrap so thick as not to get that?

"But the word only has to be mentioned on the floor of this convention for the delegates to be set off on yet more moronic whistling, hooting and clapping."

It is clear what it means but not to people unfamiliar with the devastating state of
the Bush Doctrine in American politics. It's amazing how ignorance is raised to such
an exalted position in the Telecrap's rant.

" Nobody wants to delve further into what it means; perhaps they will never have to."

Every American citizen who has lost his/her job, can't get decent health care, every parent who has seen their young men and women killed in a phony war, every job that has traveled overseas gets it just fine. Only the Telecrap is out of touch with American politics.


"The whole business of the personal "story" is the ultimate proof of the triumph of the politics of personality over the politics of substance. At this convention, one is reminded that people who become politically active do so principally because they have a grievance."

Not true. There are those such as Obama and Lincoln who have a vision. Maybe they are flawed in some ways, but they are inspirational to a Constitutional system of government when not being debased by Republicans works just fine.

"How that state of mind can ever be treated by the politics of personality is far from clear. So far, the Obama campaign, with its emphasis on the "story", has been largely substance free. He needs to start to redress that on Thursday in his speech, and in the three debates with Senator McCain in the coming weeks."

Obviously, the Telecrap has not been listening. Obama did precisely that at the Convention. The most profound statement he made was "Enough!"

"He feels he has solved part of the problem in his appointment of foreign policy "expert" Joe Biden as his running mate, but the real issue where substance is required is the economy."

And McCain is qualified to lead on this issue? That is utter lunacy. He doesn't know anything about the economy and can't keep track of his houses. He would crash the
airplane of State.

"Even a town as prosperous as Denver starts to look frayed at the edges, with cheap meal deals on offer at most restaurants and large lots of derelict land even in the heart of the city."

Yes, Denver doesn't serve bangers and mash.

"Some have wondered how Mr Obama would react to Iran bombing Israel in the first week of his presidency."

Again a meretricious bromide. These "some" would be the cheap right-wing pundits of the Brit Press. They might ask how the world would react to the bombing of Iran in the first weeks of an American presidency.

"A better question might be how he would react to a couple of investment banks going under, with defaults on a trillion or two of debt."

Obama has stated that he would encourage investment in American businesses unlike McCain who would sell our country to the highest corporate bidder whether in China or other places in the world.

"Read more from Simon Heffer
Having a good "story" may now be an indispensable part of the job application. Poor old Senator Biden is being lauded here more for having a wife and child killed in a car crash than for knowing where Kazakhstan is."

And McCain doesn't know that Afghanistan is not on the border of Iraq? The callous
brickbat at Biden's misfortune is so typical of a right-wing Brit press that in it's own quest for a story dehumanizes a personal tragedy with such fanfare.

"But this is the politics of soap opera and the pursuit of ratings, driven largely by a cynical mass media. It is no proof of a man's fitness to govern a superpower. If the Democrats are starting already to worry about their choice of candidate, that's why."

First of all, the soap opera driven by a cyncial mass media is reflective of the editorial policy of the Telecrap. Democrats are not worried about Obama.

" Have your say:"

Teribus, you really owe it to yourself to read other sources than this highly opinionated
mush of supercilious right-wing Brit punditry.

Stringsinger.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 01:39 PM

What planet are you from "sanity"?

Scarborough has been against Obama forever and the rest of that panel has been at best neutral.

Even then, dig as they might the worst they could say was partly true.

If you were to take your blinkers off you would see a very different world.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 03:24 PM

As usual it is evident here that self-inflicted delusion fueld by obsessive hatred and stupidity make it impossible for some folks to see what is plainly standing before them.

SOme folks are a lot lower-scale than others--more enmeshed in bitterness, incapable of appreciation of what is, and unable to view clearly the moment they are in because they are so immersed in their own horrid little pictures.

That in no way makes less of what Obama, Kennedy, Clinton and Pres. Clinton did at the DNC. In fact it highlights it further.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 03:39 PM

"Obama's Speech Is a TV Hit, With Viewers and Commentators Alike
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By BRIAN STELTER and JIM RUTENBERG
Published: August 29, 2008
At least 40 million Americans watched Senator Barack Obama accept the Democratic nomination for president Thursday night, a record for convention viewership that exceeded even the expectations of his aides.

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The historic speech by the first African-American presidential nominee of a major political party reached 38.4 million viewers on 10 broadcast and cable networks, Nielsen Media Research said Friday. PBS estimated that an additional 3.5 million had watched its prime-time coverage.

The ratings dwarfed the audience for the Summer Olympics and the season finale of "American Idol" in May, and added to what was already a sense of buoyancy within the Obama campaign that the night had gone better than planned.

Despite Republicans' advance ridicule of the enormous venue, Invesco Field, and the set, an elaborate, columned backdrop, Democrats went to bed having heard terrific reviews of the final night of their convention. Indeed, the backdrop, initially derided as resembling a Greek temple — playing into the Republican line of attack that Mr. Obama's supporters had deified him — turned out to be something of a hit; television reviewers and commentators praised the overall staging.

"The stagecraft was so phenomenal," Andrea Mitchell said on MSNBC, adding, "I don't know how they could have done it any better."

The four-night convention was the most-watched since 1960, when Nielsen began measuring the events. The 10 p.m. hour, Eastern time, from Monday to Thursday was viewed by an average of 22.4 million households, Nielsen said, surpassing by half a million the Republican convention of 1976, previously top-rated.

The comparisons with prior conventions come with a number of caveats: convention coverage is shown on more channels now, and the coverage is shorter, at least on the broadcast networks.

Regardless, Thursday night's record was surely impressive. The television audience for Mr. Obama's speech was half again as large as the viewership for the acceptance speeches by President Bush and Senator John Kerry in 2004.

"Obama had an opportunity to get his message across to a record-breaking crowd of millions of American voters, and he used it effectively," said Bill Burton, a spokesman for the campaign.

Demonstrating the gradual shift in the political news audience from broadcast to cable, CNN attracted more viewers than any of the broadcast networks during the 10 p.m. hour on Wednesday and Thursday. (Fox News Channel defeated the broadcasters during the Republican convention in 2004.) Mr. Obama's speech, which he gave in that hour, reached 8.1 million viewers on CNN, 6.6 million on ABC, 6.1 million on NBC, 4.7 million on CBS, 4.2 million on Fox News, and 4.1 million on MSNBC. Other viewers watched on additional channels."

NYT

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 03:42 PM

Barack Obama's Acceptance Speech can be viewed here.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 03:49 PM

Republican John McCain seemed eager to peel off aggrieved Clinton supporters with his choice of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate. But various women's groups and Clinton loyalists said Friday that the Palin pick wouldn't spur defections.

"Gov. Palin and John McCain are a good match because they both want to overturn Roe v. Wade, they both want to continue the failed economic policies of the Bush administration, and they both offer more of the same," said Ellen Malcolm, president of EMILY's List, which works to elect female Democratic candidates and endorsed Clinton in the primaries.

Buoyed by new poll results, Democrats wrapped up the convention feeling better about their prospects.

"We're going to beat the hell out of 'em in November!" exclaimed Don Fowler, a former Democratic National Committee chairman who backed Clinton during the primaries.

On the convention's most important night, Obama could not have asked for a bigger audience. Apart from the more than 84,000 spectators who watched him accept the nomination Thursday in a football stadium, the television audience smashed records. More than 38 million people saw him deliver his speech on TV, apparently a new high, according to Nielsen Media Research.

By the convention's end, the Gallup daily tracking poll showed Obama had taken a race that was dead even and built an 8-point lead. The margin could grow when the polling data account for everyone who saw the speech.... (LA Times)

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 05:25 AM

Jack, There are no blinkers.....Just because I don't believe Obama, doesn't mean I'm for McCain. So far, I'm still not impressed by either one....I think the blinkers need to come off those who are so one track minded, to actually believe in either of these two, with all the earnest that they do! Nor do I believe that either one of them, will 'uphold the constitution', that one of them will swear to. Both of them have agendas that further degrade our rights. If you can't see that, then perhaps YOU should take your blinders(not blinkers) off!!! Matter of fact, it's not that I don't see, what you see in them, look a little harder, and you can see THROUGH them!....Its all political posturing, and we are about to be dealt another blow, from both the right and the left.....and you think its from a separate boxer...its the same boxer, throwing us punches from the right, and the left, ducking and weaving. These two 'candidates' are 'front men' for the same thing..Look up Machiavellian Principle. We've been set up!..Jeezus Peezus, WE are the composers, poets musicians and writers, and yet some of you act as if you have no vision, no insight, and are just lemmings, following this crap, as gospel!..WAKE UP!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Ebbie
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:23 AM

Even supposing that you are right, GfS - which I do not - what do you propose we do? If "they" are as entrenched as you believe and the system is as cohesively corrupted as you delineate, just how are we supposed to combat them?


As for blinders versus blinkers, I believe that 'blinkers' is the equally accepted term. I know it is the older term.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:28 AM

I was wondering about "blinkers" too, and had to look it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: pdq
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:33 AM

He terms "blinder", "blinker" and "winker" mean the same thing: a flap used to keep a horse from seeing too much and being distracter. Depends what part of English-speeking world you live in.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 11:36 AM

With blinkers, it's an English-peeking world.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Stringsinger
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 12:33 PM

of course, the nature of politics is that we see the expedient, not the ideal.

Every candidate has a flaw.

Idealism is cheap unless put into constructive action.

I, for one, do not want a trigger-happy old man with untreated PTSD and a bad temper
running the country. I also don't want his assist from an anti-choice, fundamentalist,
strident, science-denier with a belligerent attitude who is not Hillary.

So I'll take Obama with all his warts because what other choice has been given to us?
I like Dennis the best but that's not possible because of the autocracy of the DLC.

One important thing everyone leaves out. Electronic voting machines can be hacked
and don't think they won't be in 2008.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 12:37 PM

Ebbie, for the first time, I really give you credit!!..Of everything I wrote, you are the only one, who didn't focus on the use and difference of 'blinkers' vs 'blinders'...Hats off to you!
What do we do??..you ask..great question!..It has a lot of people concerned!!..but there is this, the dollar is going to be greatly devalued after the election, no matter who wins. As for myself, I've gotten myself completely out of debt, seeing this coming for a while. I expect a continuation of the policies that we are heading with new intrusions into our personal lives, and way of living. Obama's programs are not 'something for nothing'..with every 'entitlement' is going to come more, not less control over our lives. With the solution for the borders, may come 'smart ID' cards or chips, first for illegal immigrants, and ultimately for us. Same with 'universal' health care. Non conformists, will and can be shut off from anything, via a chip. Ross Perot, (remember him?), owned a subsidiary whose company developed those chips, I believe it is now in the hands of another company. That is easily verifiable, with a little homework, and a search engine. As for changing the tax code..oh, you mean the illegal tax code,??...change would be to abolish the IRS! Ron Paul has great stuff on that...however Paul doesn't have a popcorn fart of a chance. Kucinich knows about all that stuff too, but if you recall, during the 'debates' they were all but silenced. Jesse Ventura spoke against it too, not being a Democrat. I expect, there will be a civil insurrection if guns will be attempted to be confiscated....but this is all in the larger plan, both from the 'Republicats' and the 'Democrans'. I strongly suggest we all get together with our loved ones, and get solid, and tight, make a plan, for emergency, and survival...and pray!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 12:39 PM

Stringsinger, ..must have cross posted....also electronic voting machines deny us of a write in candidate!

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 12:56 AM

Incidentally I'm told that at least 6 states have abolished their electronic voting machines- is that true? I thought providing one in each precinct was a federal requirement, which should mean that states can't opt out.

Does anyone know?

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Peace
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 01:10 AM

http://www.casavaria.com/cafesentido/2008/08/31/607/premier-election-solutions-diebold-admits-machines-lose-votes-in-34-states/


Takes a few seconds to load, Eb. Worth the read, too.



Ohio is taking on some elec vot mach company over the issue. But that's at a State level. Didn't seem to include the Feds.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: DougR
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 02:25 PM

I thought it was a well staged show.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: Amos
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 03:34 PM

It was that, Doug. It ran well from the beginning. There were major political developments unfolded, there was drama and even heroism in the script. The historical high point of the first serious female Presidential candidate moving to nominate the country's first serious African American candidate by acclamation -- and the timber-shaking roar of Ayes that accomplished it -- was a phenomenal moment. The stage craft will be forgotten, but that moment, and the key thrusts of his acceptance speech, will be resonating for quite a while.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:44 PM

Biden's tragic hair transplant has been rendered less ridiculous by graying hair.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:22 AM

Joe Biden has a good sense of humor about himself: (although I don't know any reason why men should not 'plug in', if desired. In my opinion, baldness is not an issue affecting value but some men evidently do)

"Along with Biden, the ranks of the senatorial plugged-in included the late Wisconsin Democratic Sen. William Proxmire — who served from 1957 to 1989 — and South Carolina Republican Strom Thurmond, whose fiery orange plugs stayed in until he died in 2003 at the age of 100.

"At Thurmond's 90th birthday party, Biden found a patch of common ground. "When I came to the Senate in '72, you were 70," he said. "And I want to tell you I resent any reference to your hair. You have been an inspiration to me in so many ways."

Politico

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM

Ebbie, you asked: "Even supposing that you are right, GfS - which I do not - what do you propose we do? If "they" are as entrenched as you believe and the system is as cohesively corrupted as you delineate, just how are we supposed to combat them?"

Combat them? Hmm. Well, let's be realistic here. What are your chances, as an ordinary citizen, of "combating" the great forces which run your society? I mean, really, what are your chances????

What was an ordinary Chinaman's chances of combating Kublai Khan? What was an ordinary Roman's chances of combating the Senate of Rome? Or Caesar? What is an ordinary Russian's chances of combating the Kremlin and the Russian power structure? What was an ordinary Frenchman's chances of combating Napoleon? What was an ordinary Spaniard's chances of combating the Catholic Church and the King? What is a present day Chinese person's chances of combating the ruling system in China? How would an Iranian or an Israeli go about combating their ruling systems and fundamentally changing them?

Ha! These systems all fall or change, Ebbie, only when they are forced to either by an internal collapse caused by their own gross insanity and inefficiency or through military defeat by an outside enemy who is too strong for them. Do you see the system that is running the USA falling or changing in its basic nature any time soon? I don't. It's got both political parties tucked in its vest pocket, it's got the mass media onside, it's got a hypnotized and compliant consumer public, it's got the military and the police onside, it's got the business community onside, its got the legal community onside, and it has no foreign enemy strong enough to defeat the USA in an all out war. Therefore, it's not going to fall or alter its basic nature for the better in the forseeable future. It's almost certainly going to increase its oppressive control over people's lives.

Here's what you do: As GfS suggested...number one job is to make sure you are carrying NO debts! Get out of debt. It is those in debt who will be hit the hardest when the screws tighten another notch or two.

Number two job is make sure you're not in trouble with the law in any way.

Number three job is to have a skill and a source of income that you can rely on (if possible).

And after that? Focus on the small things in your life which really matter, and I think you know what those are. They are the intimate aspects of your own life. They're your loved ones, your family, your friends, those you have a connection with at the heart level, your immediate community, and your own personal dreams as a uniquely developing human being. That's what your life is really about anyway. It's not about national politics. It's about you yourself as a developing human being and it's about the other people whom you know and love.

I don't place my hopes in the field of politics at all. I place my hopes in the field of my own personal life, and my own life has VERY little to do with whatever the hell is going on in the field of politics, I can assure you. I regard it as I would some kind of ridiculous circus act carried on like the phony show put on by the Wizard of Oz. You never get to see the little man behind the screen, and you never will. So what? He's not a real part of your life anyway, he's just a big noise made by a big, stupid wind that blows but knows not why it is blowing and cares not who it sweeps away when it does.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:35 PM

Boldly put, and well said, GfS.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: DougR
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:36 PM

Interesting, though, that the Republican National Convention overall had a larger television audience than the Democratic show.

Bad omen?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 06:57 PM

I think you may have mistaken my post for GfS's post, Amos.

It's a bad omen either way, Doug. I mean, whichever way it goes. You'll jump around and cheer when and if your "team" wins this thing, but the part you don't get is this: it's a game. They win, you lose (unless you're one of the ones who rides the political machine and cashes in).

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:02 PM

When I discussed the same issues as 'guest from sanity' 6 years ago, everyone thought it was paranoid crazy.

Now you guys seem to accept it with a shrug.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:07 PM

Oh, sorry LH--it was yours, not hers.

Mea culpa.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:04 PM

It gets easier to be philosophical about this stuff with advancing years, Donuel. ;-) You realize that you've seen it all before, that your opinions aren't going to change the world now any more than some Roman plebeian's did back in the year 52 BC, and you realize that once you've died and moved on to other things beyond this field of action here it won't matter much anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:17 PM

LH, you said, I don't place my hopes in the field of politics at all. I place my hopes in the field of my own personal life, and my own life has VERY little to do with whatever the hell is going on in the field of politics, I can assure you.

If you were a woman of child-bearing years, or an immigrant or any of a myriad other people whom the RNC wants to control, you would not be saying that. Your life would be effected whether you participated in politics or not.

I don't believe in the defeatist philosophy of no-use-in-participating. Things can and will change. Women did win the right to vote; the civil rights movement did succeed in many ways; and, there are many other ways in which things have changed because people got involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Democratic Convention
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:56 AM

Everyone's gotta do what moves them, Kat. I don't necessarily expect others to do or be the same as me. If you are highly motivated to participate in politics, go for it. I put my personal efforts into things which I find more meaningful than politics, but what I find meaningful may not be what someone else finds meaningful.

Joan Baez, for example, has put her whole life into various forms of political action, and I respect that. Bob Dylan, on the other hand, chose not to do that (despite people wanting him to), and I respect his decision also. They each did exactly what suited them.

I comment on politics simply because it's an interesting subject in itself, but I have no intention of getting involved in the political process, any more than I have any intention of getting involved in the labour unions or the military or the police force, to give three more examples.....but they still are all interesting subjects in various ways.