BS: Update on Somali Pirates

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 08:39 AM

Sad story but at least she is now free "to pick up the pieces of her life."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 09:15 AM

UK lady has been freed today after money was paid. I imagine the UK government will organise a nice overseas aid package for the poor souls.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17455284

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 10:33 PM

Phil-

Excellent report. So it was a message in the bottle that provided the essential info that the crew was still safe and the ship could be boarded without further endangering them.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Newport Boy
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:09 PM

A fuller report in the Guardian

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:10 PM

"Pirates currently hold at least 10 ships and 251 people hostage, according to Harrie Harrison, commander of the anti-piracy military coalition European Union Naval Force."

Goodness gracious!

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 07:58 AM

Momentum appears to be shifting against the Somali pirates as ship owners implement security improvements and the international naval units are resorting to more aggressive intervention. The latest instance was the successful recapture of an Italian cargo ship. Upon being approached by pirates the crew retreated to an armored room and radioed for assistance. The nearby US and UK naval units boarded the ship and captured the Somali pirates without a fire fight. Here are the details: click here for report!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:41 PM

Now THAT's clever marketing!

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:38 AM

Oh dear! I knew someone would come up with an offer like this, a luxury cruise along the Somali coast: click here for a good time!

I found it hard to believe but check it out yourselves.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 08:37 PM

The US Navy seems to have made a tactical mistake in deciding not to return the two Somali pirates it was negotiating with. That seems to have been the primary reason that triggered the grenade launcher attack and the killing of the hostages by the remaining pirates.

There just are not a lot of good options once the pirates have hostages.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 06:26 PM

Right on the mark, Teribus. The idea of establishing convoy routes (and well-protected convoys) is an excellent one. It IS a war, so treat it like one, I'd say.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 05:42 PM

Piracy on the High Seas always used to be regarded as an act of war.

For some reason the EU in its wisdom decided the pirates were criminals and that piracy is a crime, which means the same procedures of arrest apply to an armed pirate as apply to a shoplifter.

"Q"-Ships and what they catch is purely "luck-of-the-draw" its like playing blind man's bluff. They only can serve as a deterrent provided the pirates are aware that the "Q"-ships are out there, there value is that they cause the pirates to be more circumspect in what they attack.

Attack the anchorages where they are holding the ships. Attack the towns nearby, establish convoy routes, use Maritime Patrol Aircraft and watch, watch, watch. The picture will soon emerge and as soon as you have that picture the anomalies stick out like balls on a billiard table.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: GUEST,999
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 04:12 PM

I think y`ad have to be an idiot to take a civilian pleasure yacht or other type of boat into `their` waters. I have little sympathy for people who can be that stupid. That said, I don`t understand why big shippers are willing to negotiate million dollar buyouts for the crooks and not hire mercs to take care of business.

The highlight was the seal team who shot the bastards. Calling this scum pirates almost legitimizes them. And even the older days-of-sail pirates were nothing to look up to. Search and destroy has always had a place in warfare, and if this ain`t warfare, then what is!

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 03:44 PM

I guess part of the problem is that there are always some hostages being held whose lives can be threatened if any major military action is taken. On the other hand, maybe no one wants to spend the money and face the various risks incurred in launching such an operation. How about sending out some nice juicy-looking Q-ships (with lots of hidden firepower waiting on board) and laying traps for the pirates? That might discourage them some. If the odds of not returning from a piracy mission went up steeply, it would become a less popular occupation.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 12:32 PM

Current count seems to be 30 vessels and 660 hostages held by the pirates.
No news on the Danish family taken last week.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 06:22 PM

Just effectively blockade- 3300 kilometers- it is not that simple. All vessels would have to be checked in and out to see if they were legitimate fishers-etc., some 'mother' ships seem to be provisioning at ports outside Somalia (Kenya, e. g.).
Port facilities are not needed, since larger vessels can be provisioned by small runabouts.
Smuggling of migrants and slaves (forced workers) also is rampant along much of the coast.

Some reports of the blockade being discussed, but no one in the military units has said it could be practical.

Actually my answer is 'I dunno'. I can't find much information on the coast, the thinking of parties involved, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 01:49 PM

With that much at stake, I suggest that several governments put together a large military force and neutralize the Somalian ports that the pirates are based in. That's what the US Navy did once to the Barbary Pirates, and it worked quite well. They stopped bothering American shipping after that. Of course, they actually had a functioning government and chain of command to negotiate with, which the Somalian pirates do not, I gather...nevertheless I think that shutting down and blockading their ports is really the only way to stop them. You have to take the initiative to get control in this sort of situation, not just respond to various separate incidents like a fire brigade.

It would not be necessary to occupy the land in Somalia, and I wouldn't recommend anything of the sort. Just effectively blockade their ports and their seacoast, that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 12:56 PM

Large vessels, esp. tankers, are not taken into port. Negotiations are carried out on the sea. One giant carrying $200 million in oil is occupied by pirates and talks are ongoing with insurers/owners, who have too much at stake to see the vessel heavily damaged or set on fire.


On BBC this morning, a pleasure yacht has been taken, 7-8 Danes aboard including three children. Haven't seen any details yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 11 - 08:18 PM

If you take over a large ship, you can't just beach it on any convenient shore and then negotiate its ransom. You have to take it into a deep water harbour and hold it there, where you can dock or anchor it, unload what it's carrying with shore cranes, and so on. To stop the piracy, therefore, you must shut down the Somalian deep water harbours and make it impossible for the pirates to use those harbours. I doubt there are very many such harbours on that long coast.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Feb 11 - 01:14 PM

Somalia is what some call a failed state. The government can't govern and largely subsists on UN and US handouts.
Take the troops out of Afghanistan ans put them in Somalia.
It wouldn't be an easy job; Somalia has a very long coastline, curling around the horn of Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Feb 11 - 10:38 AM

Teribus is absolutely correct. The only certain way to stop piracy is to eliminate the shore bases of the pirates. Without secure harbours to operate from, pirates are finished. So...you have to assault their harbours, sink all their boats, destroy their repairing and refueling facilities, and blockade or occupy those harbours from that point forward. Full military response, in other words. That's what was done to shut down piracy in the 17th and 18th centuries, and that's what would have to be done now.

There is apparently a lack of political will out there to do it. I wonder why that is? Can they just not be bothered? Do they consider it too politically risky or too expensive? Are the various nations all waiting for someone else to shoulder the burden? Or is someone profiting from simply maintaining the present situation as is?

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Feb 11 - 02:59 AM

"The financiers put up millions for the mother ships and the weapons."

No they do not, the "mother ships" used (usually fishing vessels) have themselves been hijacked or "pirated" they cost the pirates nothing. The last two "mother ships" captured (one by the South Koreans and the second by the Indian Navy) still had their original fishing crews held onboard as hostages.

Fishing vessels are ideal for use as "mother ships" because they do not transit the areas they "loiter" in it. There are also hundreds of them and it is very easy for the pirates to hide in a "fishing fleet", your faith in satellite surveillance is rather naive.

As in the 17th & 18th centuries there is only one way to eradicate the menace of pirates, you destroy the bases from which they operate.

Your "financiers"? A thirty-odd year old Somali widow contibuted her inheritance from her late husband (an AK-47 with three magazines) worth $60. Her return on her investment was reportedly $131,000. Now you tell me if that is an attractive proposition?

Destroy their bases, smash their boats and make them think twice about even walking along a beach let alone attempt to put to sea from one.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 09:52 PM

I hear there's consideration being given to creating a Somali Coast Guard from non-pirate Somalis to help interdict their pirate countrymen. So how big a bribe do you think it would take to get a Somali Coast Guard to overlook those grappling hooks and RPGs in the wheelhouse?

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:23 PM

gnu-

Now that's an idea. If there were hundreds of us watching a different sector of the India Ocean on SatCam, we might be able to spot something of interest and alert authorities. I'd be happy to take a shift. I wonder if I could re-use my old Ground Observer Corps Caller-ID letters, FOXTROT PAPA 1-4-BLACK?

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:24 PM

It's very small ocean on satcam.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:16 PM

Jack-

It's a good plan and something like it is going on now, I'm sure. But it's a big ocean.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 08:42 PM

From what I understand of the economics of Somali piracy, there is only one weakness to attack.

The financiers put up millions for the mother ships and the weapons. The worlds navies have to hurt their profits and make it too expensive to carry on the business.

Here is my plan. It is similar to the way that some us counties finance their police departments.

satellites and computers keep track of shipping in the affected area, suspicious ships are stopped and searched. If evidence of piracy is found the ship is sold for scrap with the proceeds going to pay for more searches.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 07:03 PM

Q... sharks? I rescind my posts. The green thing to do would be to use em as bait.

Hmmm... I think I have even offended myself with that one. Hard to do most of the time. But, a joke is a joke so I'll let it stand.

I look forward to being told and even any PMs.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 06:52 PM

I knew Kipling complained about not receiving American royalties, but I hadn't associated that with the poem.

Keelhaul in shark-infested waters? Ecologists are worried about the overfishing of sharks. Pirates a new food source for them?

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 03:56 PM

Kipling was a cruel badass. I'd just swing the trash. Oh, yes, I know that would be cruel as a bullet is more humane, but rope is a green solution and we all should be environmentally concious eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Midchuck
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 03:00 PM

I was told that Kipling wrote the poem as a metaphor, to let off steam at the fact that American "pirates" were publishing his stuff over here, and not paying royalties, and he couldn't stop it because there was no international copyright agreement at that time.

P.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 10:02 AM

Peter-

Ah, I see now where the lines came from and whom they refer to, the "pirate" John Paul Jones: click here for poem

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:53 AM

Peter-

What a fine set of Kipling lines! Do you have a tune yet or is it just one diatribe? I'll have to revisit this poem myself.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 02:03 AM

Janie you can object to the truth all you want but it still does not detract from the fact that it still remains the truth, irrespective of your sensibilities.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Janie
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 10:31 PM

The only objection I have to T's statement is I can recall another turbaned leader....

But my objection to his implication is a strong one.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 09:25 PM

Had I had guns (as I had goods) to work my Christian harm,
I had run him up from his quarter-deck to trade with his own yard-arm;
I had nailed his ears to my capstan-head, and ripped them off with a saw,
And soused them in the bilgewater, and served them to him raw;
I had flung him blind in a rudderless boat to rot in the rocking dark,
I had towed him aft of his own craft, a bait for his brother shark;
I had lapped him round with cocoa husk, and drenched him with the oil,
And lashed him fast to his own mast to blaze above my spoil;
I had stripped his hide for my hammock-side, and tasselled his beard i' the mesh,
And spitted his crew on the live bamboo that grows through the gangrened flesh;
I had hove him down by the mangroves brown, where the mud-reef sucks and draws,
Moored by the heel to his own keel to wait for the land-crab's claws!

- Kipling, The Rhyme of the Three Captains

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 09:10 PM

No simple solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 08:36 PM

999-

Draining the Red Sea might slow them down but it would also be short-sighted.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 01:52 PM

"One may dispose of those caught, but that won't stop the practice."

It will however ensure that the 'disposed' do not do it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 08:31 PM

Amos et al-

I have to agree with T as well.

This particular incident is a "game changer" and from now on no one will see much point in negotiating with Somali pirates. They have always been in it for the money but now its an international syndicate running things rather than small gangs of underemployed fishermen.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Amos
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 05:16 PM

For once, T and I see eye-to-eye on this issue; once you cast your lot as a pirate, you are fair game for the exercise of overwhelming force.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 04:31 PM

More spring up every day.
Compare Mexico, 45,000 dead, mostly drug dealers at all levels, killing eash other, yet no end in sight.
One may dispose of those caught, but that won't stop the practice.

Armed commercial shipping and cessation of pleasure use of the Indian Ocean may help.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 03:29 PM

Me too... extract info and then the yardarm and then fishfood.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 03:15 PM

I`m with Teribus on this. Said as much a few years back on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 03:13 PM

""I lost the money I invested and my comrades. No forgiveness for the Americans. Revenge. Our business will go on," - Pirate Leader Farah

Interesting how he lists his losses by importance. I can recall another turbaned leader calling on revenge and and no forgiveness for the Americans and it didn't work out too well for him and his colleagues.

As for "Their business going on" I think that they are about to find safe havens anywhere on God's earth are going to be few and far between.

You do not negotiate with pirates you kill them.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 01:29 PM

It would be impossible to police effectively the Indian Ocean even if all the naval ships of the world were involved.
The horn of Africa is mostly Somalian, and UN peacekeepers have their hands full with the area around Mogadishu.

Reports indicate more than 30 ships are under pirate control.
There can be no quick solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 08:13 AM

A few more details from the Somali pirates ashore:

Pirates vow revenge

Two Somali pirates who spoke with Reuters by telephone Tuesday said the hostages were ordered killed since the pirates themselves were under attack by U.S. forces.

"Our colleagues called us this morning, that they were being attacked by a U.S. warship," Mohamud, a Somali pirate, told Reuters. "We ordered our comrades to kill the four Americans before they got killed."

Pirate leader Farah, speaking from Bayla, a pirate haven in the northern semi-autonomous region of Puntland, vowed to avenge the deaths and capture of his comrades.

"I lost the money I invested and my comrades. No forgiveness for the Americans. Revenge. Our business will go on," he said, adding he had spent $110,000 so far in the hijacking, including on weapons and food and salaries.

So far the stories about this incident don't exactly correlate which is not surprising.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 08:26 PM

The ABC News report this evening suggested that while two of the Somali pirates where negotiating with the US Navy aboard their warship, someone aboard the sailing yacht fired a rocket from a recoilless rocket launcher at the warship which missed. Then there were shots heard aboard the sailboat and several of the pirates were then seen up on the bow with their hands up. When the boarding party arrived they determined that two of the hostages were dead below and the other two were mortally wounded. Several more Somali pirates down below engaged in a firefight with the marines and were killed.

Again, this is just the story that has been released to the media at this point and reality could be much different.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 02:18 PM

Tragic.

Part of an article I just found...

LOS ANGELES, Calif. - A friend and former professor of a California man whose yacht was hijacked by Somali pirates said that Scott Adam wanted to combine his love of adventure with his faith by spreading Bibles around the world.

Professor Robert K. Johnston of Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena told The Associated Press on Sunday that Adam — who last year earned a master of theology degree from the school — had sent friends emails detailing his international sailing trip. But Adam went silent Feb. 12 to avoid revealing the location of his yacht, the Quest, to pirates.

"He was sailing around the world and serving God, two of his passions," Johnston said.

Organizers of the Blue Water Rally yacht race said passengers of the sailboat owned by Adam and his wife, Jean, carried them and two other Americans, Phyllis Macay and Bob Riggle, both of Seattle. It was hijacked Friday off the coast of Oman. It is now in the waters between Yemen and northern Somalia, two pirates and a Somali government official told The Associated Press.

Johnston said that despite an adventurous spirit, the Adams were meticulous planners who knew the dangers they faced. The couple had sailed with a large flotilla to stay safe from pirates near Thailand earlier in the trip.

"They knew and we knew they still had to go by the Somalia coast," he said. "We're asking people to pray for them."

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 02:12 PM

While I am saddened to hear of this, I am not surprised. People have been, continue to and will continue to be warned of the dangers relating to certain passages. Some choose to ignore the warnings.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 02:08 PM

At this point we don't have a clue what the rescue options were or how the negotiating was going. What's clear is that for whatever reasons the pirates decided they were in a no win situation for themselves, and that perhaps by executing their hostages they might provide other pirate bands more leverage for bargaining.

Not all encounters with pirates end up with happy endings.

Why on earth did these yachtsmen risk their lives in these waters sailing solo?

Charley Noble