BS: Religious Canvassers

Subject: Religious Canvassers
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:33 AM

Whilst enjoying my Friday morning Mudcat, suitably hungover from the various pints of Bombadier I drank at The Steamer last night whilst enjoying the assembled company of The Fleetwood Folk Club celebrating the joys of collective ambrosia - or was it amnesia? Whatever the case, it was catching - although Rachel brought in her 7-minute Tam Lin without a hitch, likewise Ron's masterly Outlandish Knight... Anyhoo, here I am piecing together the shards of my shattered consciousness when there comes a knock at the door and - guess what? Religious Canvassers! As an unrepentant Neo-Gnostic Marxist-Jesuist Humanist with a deep love of the spiritual & cultural traditions of Three, Three, The Rivals, my immediate response was to tell them to Fuck off and Go to Hell before closing the door in their faces (problem with these UPVC doors is that they won't slam). I must confess to feeling that it might have been a tad churlish to send these cheerful door-to-door missionaries on their merry way, even if they were Jehovah's Witnesses, without offering at least a measure of common courtesy or hospitality, though hopefully our house number will now carry a black mark against it, yeah, even in The Book of Life.

How do you approach these people?

Subject: RE: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:37 AM

Say your interested that throws us. ;)
But a polite I'm not interested and we'll go away.

Not beliving in hell going to it would be pretty difficult. lol!

Subject: RE: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:52 AM

Some suggestions.

If they call when you have some free time you could engage in a debate with them and thereby stop them annoying somebody else who doesn't have the time; call it your good deed for the day!

My late mother usually managed to be weeding in the garden when they came. She agreed to listen to them as long as they helped her with the weeding; that way they did their good deed for the day.

Going back to first pricipals can be usefull when debating with them. Why do you need a creator? Why should a god be synonymous with creator, etc.

Have a pre-printed leaflet on behalf of the Humanists to hand.

Subject: RE: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,buspassed
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:52 AM

The JW's are invited to talk to my ficticious sister who I then call to, she used to belong to their sect and can tell them a few stories! I say, there is then a general speedy exit down our front steps!

The Salt Lake lot are asked how their relief work in Africa is going while offering them a MSF leaflet. As to the rest of the simpletons looking to recruit others to financially feather the nest of their Elders I tell them it's just been announced on the news that God has died of shame in various regions of Africa.

Wonder what Hell's like?

Subject: RE: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:53 AM

I've had hours of fun with them. One particular sunny afternoon, I kept a pair of them talking up to the point when the rest of the troupe had covered all the neighbourhood, and then gathered in a group at the end of the garden, trying to attract the attention of the pair, so they could all get back into the bus and go home for their tea.
Be nice! They don't mean any harm, really...
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Religious Canvassers
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:53 AM

I usually invite them in for a chat & try to convince them of the error of their ways!

Subject: RE: Religious Canvassers
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:55 AM

The Hell I consigned them to was the Gnostic realm of material misery, which, one would hope, equates with trudging around the streets on a cold morning hassling the good townsfolk with beliefs straight out the mind of a madman. Much thanks they'll get for it - I dare say mine was one of the more polite responses!

Subject: RE: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:07 AM

Invite them in to chat about Darwin. If they try to foist religious tracts on you, tell them that you'll read their 'literature' if they'll read Richard Dawkins or Stephen Jay Gould; you usually can't see their feet for dust.

And if that doesn't work, refer to their particular sect as a 'cult' - that, at least, annoys them ("we are NOT a CULT!!!").

Subject: RE: Religious Canvassers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:13 AM

As an eternal botherer for the Labour Party, yes I know, I know, I have some sympathy with these people. I would never give to Christian Aid, preferring Oxfam or Amnesty but after a couple of bruising incidents collecting door to door for Amnesty I decided anybody who collects door to do deserves something or other.

As for the god botherers seeking my soul I am not convinced of the point of discussion, religion is what people decide to have through faith - not evidence.

I liked the idea of god alive and well but working on a far less ambitious project, but dying of shame in Africa, we might add Europe etc. is excellent.

Chiz
L in C

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: quokka
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:18 AM

My mother once let in two Mormons accidentally - she looked after children and was expecting one of them to be picked up by his father, so when the knock came she says,"Come on in, John, I'll be there in a second," so they come in and sit down in the lounge which has:

A picture of the Sacred Heart complete with electric candle in front;

A bronze engraving of the Last Supper;

An oil painting of the Last Supper;

Several prints of the Pope (JPII), some of which are framed;

A two-foot high statue of the Virgin Mary (on rotation from the Parish - everyone gets to keep it for a week or something)

A Holy Water font by the front door, filled;

The Family Bible, complete with wooden stand;

A large wooden Celtic Cross;

I'm sure there were other things as well, but suffice to say I don't know who was trying to convert whom. They stayed for a cup of tea, and never came back, although they did go to other houses in our street after that. (Oh, and if anyone recognises the loungeroom description please don't tell Mum!)

*g*

Cheers,

Quokka

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:20 AM

Good call Shimrod,

Darwin, Dawkins and Gould, read em all so much joy - I would through in Jacob Brownowski for good measure. I think The God Delusion is one of the most incisive, well written and funny books I have read, and re-read in a long time.

Chiz

L in C

Darwin, Dawkins and Gould sound a bit like a '70s soft rock band - I think I have an album of those.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:41 AM

We Are the Other People

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:45 AM

And then if you are on a train and they "want to testify"...

Crazy Train or Emotional Subway Attack

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:53 AM

Excellent stuff Foolestroupe but from where I stand, militant atheist, I am not clear how your collection of beliefs, which clearly I don't really know, are based in any more or less evidence than the people of the book(s).

I like the idea of using the bible as a source and making the point that it is as much my / our book as it is the book of the believers.

L in C

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:04 AM

I live out in the sticks at the very edge of a village with no facilities.

If any JW get this far (and they do) I usually invite them to a drink and the use of the toilet.
This is more in keeping with 'my' beliefs rather than slamming the door in their faces and I've had some interesting chats about Gaia too.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:41 AM

Don't assume they are MY beliefs Les -

I got those links from a friend...

:-0

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:59 AM

Fairenoughski Foolestroupe

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:05 AM

Lately the Baptists have taken to parading their children door to door early on Saturdasy to recruit attendees for Sunday AM services. The kids are cute so I don't say anything nasty but I do make a point of answering the door half dreesed and only partially awake. They usually recoil in horror and leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:10 AM

Quokka,
Does the statue of the virgin unscrew to reveal an oversized rosary? We passed one of them around the neighborhodd when I was in the third grade. She was kept in a lace lined shoe box. Long story.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: quokka
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:11 AM

I'm not surprised if you go about half dreesed! Imagine what they'd do if you were fully dreesed - call the cops, probly....*bg*

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:17 AM

A former colleague told me this one :

Whilst she was still with her husband, they found out that the god-botherers - JWs - were in the locality.

He stripped to the pelt and waited for the door to be knocked.

Opening it - stark, bollock naked, you understand - he asked the god-botherers 'Can I help you ?', and while they were struggling for breath, he says over his shoulder 'Shan't be long, my love -

don't go away, will you ?'.

It seems that JWs couldn't get off the doorstep quick enough ; and even if the tale is apocryphal, it still makes me smile.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Gedi
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:19 AM

That's a good one Foolestroupe, I am eternally grateful that I don't have to put up with those shenanikins on my daily commute.

With reference to the JW, I tried the "I am a Satanist" approach, but all it did was to bring forth a lengthy discourse on what the bible says about satan! I was very disappointed I can tell you.

I once had a long conversation with one guy who was quite nice really. I asked what would happen at the end of the world and he said that all those who had been good would be returned to live on the Earth. I said 'what, everyone who has ever lived in all history who has lived a good life? Won't it be a bit crowded?' The reply came that someone had worked out that there would be about 1 square foot of space for each person. I think I managed to keep a straight face, but I can't be sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: quokka
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:21 AM

I must be in a rilly silly mood today - I just saw the phrase "virgin unscrew..." and descended into giggles. Sorry. I don't think anyone would have been game to decapitate the VM to see what goodies she had inside! The more I think about this, the weirder it seems. There is a statue of the VM in our city that supposedly sheds tears,they keep trying to get the Vatican interested in it, tests show it's a mixture of olive oil and rose oil or something. I think the church authorities are a bit sceptical now. Lots of people go to see it, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:25 AM

I usually listen to what they have to say ... even sometimes invite them in for conversation and debates. It can be interesting and we usually end up having some good hearty laffs. I don't feel threatened by them in the least bit.

I'm a non-believer but am always curious as to what the 'believer' beleive in ... I'm mean how can you be a non-beleiver if you are ignorant of what the 'believers' believe in.

They're just peeple, and we are all peeple sharing this great big world.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:27 AM

........& some've told me only 4,040 people were allowed to enter the kingdom of heaven, I commented tht it didn't seem very democratic.

Response being god's not democratic!

Not a good selling point IMO

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Michael
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:34 AM

I like Vin Garbutt's response:- "I'd rather not be a witness, I'm quite happy being a bystander"

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:38 AM

Slamming the door is a bit much. GtD's approach is better, but he is mistaken when he says these people mean no harm. Dawkins has argued convincingly, and in fairly scientific terms, that religions as viruses of the mind.

Better than any book cited so far is God is not Great by Christopher Hitchens, of whom Richard Dawkins wrote: "If you are a religious apologist invited to debate with him, decline." Reviewing the book, Dawkins added: "With characteristic effrontery, Hitchens took his book tour through the Bible Belt states - the reptilian brain of southern and middle America, rather than the easier pickings of the country's cerebral cortex to the north and down the coasts. The plaudits he received were all the more gratifying."

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Zen
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:09 AM

I'm never rude to them. On a number of occasions I've chatted to them and invited them in for a cup of tea. On other occasions... "Can't chat for long I'm afraid... I've got to leave in a minute and...". Usually we can find something to agree about. Once, one poor soul was soaked to the bone and freezing and was very grateful to come in for tea and a sandwich and a respite from the cold.

Zen

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:21 AM

I did invite one lady in once. She had no sense of humor and wished to speak about nothing but the bible. All questions were answered with bible quotes. It was a bit like dealing with Walkabout and his life's work.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Deckman
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:38 AM

I feel NO requirement to be at all polite, quite the opposite. To get to my house doorbell, they have to walk through THREE signs that say: "NO SOLICITING OR BIBLETHUMPERS!"

If I'm outside by the street when they greet me, I just smile and give them the finger. If they dare to ring my doorbell, I rush at them, cussing loudly in Finnish, and laugh as they run away ... true.

Recently a large church of these believers, JW, was built in my neighborhood. They now feel it is their provence to canvass my neighborhood every Sunday. I have called the cops on them in the past ... you'd think they'd learn! Bob(deckman)Nelson ((I'm really a nice guy))

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:50 AM

Make them welcome!

Preach to them! Of the glories of Great Cthulhu!

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:16 PM

I live near BOTH the JWs and the Mormons (near the BIG east coast Mormon Temple)...I discovered that one good way to get rid of them is to mistake one for the other! I called Mormons JWs, and they almost turned purple.
Followers of God have their principles!

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:19 PM

Like Bob, I feel no obligation to be polite to people who feel obligated to foist their religion on the rest of the world. They walk right up to the door with a sign that says

No soliciting
This includes No Church Stuff

and assume that it doesn't apply to them.

I don't swear and slam the door, but I do make it clear that I find their attitude and presumption contemptible.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: kendall
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:52 PM

I had two Mormon types come to my door and I allowed them to finish their presentation. When they were done, one of them asked me if I had any questions about Mormonism. I said, "Yes, one question, why did Brigham Young order the massacre of 120 innocent pioneers on their way west at a place called Mountain Meadows"? They were horrified! They said, "What? I never heard of such a thing. Where did you get that story"? I assured them it was the truth, but they said, "We will find out about this and get back to you."
That was 9 years ago.I'm still waiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 03:02 PM

Being one of the 'Salt Lake lot', as you put it, not only did I not feather my nest, but I sunk quite a bit of money into a mission.
If asked how the relief effort in Africa was going, i would reply very well, thank you. Measles vaccinations and children's nutrition being two examples that spring to mind, not to mention that I spent my spare time for 2 weeks helping put together first aid kits to be sent to Africa. Would have done more, except that I don't live in the States, or anywhere else near one of our welfare centres.

I had absolutely no problems with people not wanting to listen. I would bid them a good day and go elsewhere. If there were any signs that said no canvassing, I wouldn't knock there. However, I saw no reason to be offensive to us when a striaght no would suffice.
My purpose was not to find people to argue with, or to browbeat with my message, bit of a waste of time.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 03:11 PM

Like quokka, sometimes I heap on the Catholic traditional stuff, and they're immediately convinced I'm going to hell. Funny how they can stand only their own brand of religiosity.
And if I can get away with it, I take a social-justice liberal Catholic tack, which is closer to my True Self and convinces them even more strongly that I'm doomed to hell. I think they'd rather deal with atheists. I never argue with them - I just try to beat them to the punch.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 03:13 PM

Because I have a window right next to the curtained door, I know the minute I open the top half of the inner door what is on the step waiting for me, and I have this down to a science.


First, I remind myself that my response is NOT about anything other than getting on with my day without adding any negative energy to the universe-- it's not about "getting even," making a point, teaching them something, etc., and it is most certainly NOT about protecting myself because have nothing to fear.

So I smile and take charge of the interaction across the dutch door. "Hi, did you bring me some literature?" (reaching for it). They aren't trained for that opening!!! I take the proffered items with a smile and say, confidently, "Thanks! I'll look forward to looking at it when I get back from church. I see it has phone numbers if I want more information, so please don't come back. Have a great day!" (sincerely) (closing door politely)

They do not know what to say to this, so they leave for YOUR house. And they never have come back, knocked again, tried to extend the interaction, etc..

Hey, try it my way.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:00 PM

While I'm not a christian of any (apparently) conflicting denomination I find the Judaic avice to

'Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.'

is OK by me

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Wesley S
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:05 PM

Would turning the other cheek be out of the question?

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:09 PM

My house is situated a quarter-mile back in the woods. There's a sign posted on our driveway up near the road that says:

WARNING!

This is a CLOTHING OPTIONAL homestead.
If you are offended by nudity, do not enter.


Works every time.

Subject: ADD: Jehovah's Windows
From: Acorn4
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:28 PM

This one's about a Jehovah's witness who sells double glazing:-

JEHOVAH'S WINDOWS

1.Who's that knocking at my door?
Is that the knock I dread?
They always call when you're in the shower
Or half asleep in bed
They say they've come to take away
Your money and your sins
As you watch the milk of human kindness
Go running down their chins.

2."We happened to be in the area"
That's what they always say,
And grin at you as if to say:-
"This is your lucky day-
We've come about your windows
That you need to replace;
And we've got our foot inside your door,
And our hands inside your brains."

Chorus:

So , come and buy Jehovah's windows,
Sign on the dotted line,
Give us your soul, your money,
Until the end of time.
Why don't you surrender, Why put up a fight?
Just open up Jehovah's windows,
So you can see the light.

3.Now your existing windows,
They really are the pits,
They'll take with them your walls and roofs
When they fall to bits,
Followed by that fitted kitchen that we sold to you
So climb up onto the watchtower
And get a grandstand view.

It's no good trying a gentle hint,
We have no sense of shame;
We'll carry on patronising you
While your dinner goes up in flames-
We get a fat commission when all is signed and sealed
And a timeshare villa in Heaven
On completion of the deal

Chorus:

So, come and buy...

Don't think you can slam that door,
That would be in vain,
We'll just crawl down the chimney pot
Or wriggle through the drain,
We'll seep through any orifice,
You're not safe on the loo
'Cos like gremlins we'll swim round the bend
And grab a hold of you..

You can say that you're a Hindu,
An agnostic or the Pope,
But we're the universal salesmen
And we never give up hope.
We'll never leave 'til your resistance goes without a trace,
And you're left all double-glazed
Just like the expression on your face.

Final chorus:-

So, come and buy...

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: topical tom
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:35 PM

Many years back when I was much younger and more naive I allowed in two pretty and charming JW's one Sunday morning. I was still in my house-coat but they were not deterred by this.They spent two hours and a half (I kid you not!) explaining how to be "saved" and the dire consequences of not becoming so.They assured me that this was the last age-the world would end shortly.I certainly took the lesson to heart.From then on I simply said, "I'm not interested. I am saved." I do accept the "Watchtower";our front door is close to the recycle box.Though I have been on several occasions, I am not rude to them.They are essentially good people who genuinely believe in their mission. I do not.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:52 PM

Midchuck!

Ia! Ia! Shub niggurath!!

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: LilyFestre
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:01 PM

We had persistent folks come to the house when I was a kid. My step father was rude and to the point with them frequently. They continued to come back. Then one day he let our German Shepard and Dobermen meet them at the door (screen door closed, of course) and it scared them enough that they never came back.

In college, I shared an apartment with my 2 closest pals. There were these 2 Mormon guys about our age, so we humored them, listened to their deal, asked questions and shared our beliefs with them. We would invite them for lunch and just had fun getting to know them. We went to church with them once....it wasn't for any of us. I have photos of these guys and several fond memories.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Deckman
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:07 PM

I have ALWAYS felt it is the ultimate in arrogance to EVER speak to anyone else of your religion, unless you are asked. Any student of life knows just how dangerous religions are ... can you possibly count the numbers of deaths that have happened in the name of "religion"? Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:44 PM

We had an English pointer that used to lunge at my mother's front door when strangers were on the porch. The door had 16 panes, the four on the bottom ended up replaced with extra strong glass because of this dog.

We were in the habit of shutting him in the upstairs stairwell when people came to the door, because of his barking and lunging. Two men, Jehovah's Witnesses, arrived, Mom opened the door, and when they indicated their business she declined to talk to them and closed the door. But one of them actually stuck his foot in the door to prevent her.

I walked over to the stairwell and let the dog out. They were gone in a flash.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:59 PM

When a group calls at my door holding a bible and beaming mega smiles I always wish I had some FX make up or mask that would appear to start blistering or melting as I stared at their outstretched bible screaming.

I think it would give them a sense of accomplishment.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:17 AM

When they came by one day the dog was quicker than I was & it got out the door & started barking. I knew the dog was being friendly but they didn't so I said in a panicked voice "DON'T ANYBODY MOVE"! They froze while I got hold of the dog by the collar & the dog & I went inside when I turned back to the door they were headed down the street.
Another time I worked with 3 brothers, they were brought up as witnesses & said next time when they approach tell them that you've been shunned (they aren't allowed to talk with those that have been shunned). I tried it & they did a U-turn at the the head of the driveway.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: quokka
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:24 AM

Have a recording ready of Monty Python's Life of Brian - the bit where the old guy keeps saying "Jehovah" at the stoning.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:49 AM

Great stuff one and all. Next time they come a-calling - I think I'll just tell 'em to fuck off and go to hell!

Remember: They Can't All Be Right, But They Can All Be Wrong...

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:26 AM

An orthodox Jewish acquaintance from a long time ago would invite them in with the words 'Welcome, welcome, come in and I'll show you where you went wrong in the translation!'

Usually had them beating a hasty retreat.

One afternoon, again a long time back before I was married, my housemate and I made the mistake of admitting we went to the local church regularly.   They kept coming back, every week for months after that, so one afternoon we sicced a visiting rabid Pentecostal lay preacher on them, and sat there giggling for an hour and a half as they swapped Bible quotes and she got the better of them. They never came back after that.

I usually just say that I'm in the middle of cooking or something (and I usually am) but I'll take the literature and get back to them....

Another friend found a great way to persuade them to leave, the baby was yelling so her being totally unashamed and a militant sort of person, she flopped out a breast and started feeding... they couldn't back up quickly enough - and they were women!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: kendall
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 07:22 AM

..show you where you went wrong in the translation! I love it!

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 07:42 AM

My favourite (can't remember if it was JWs or Ms) was to tell them I was a satanist and it was such a lovely coincidence that they had called by as we were just about to start the safrifice...

Latest one and much more effective, only a few weeks back.

Ding-dong

Me: Hello, can I help you?

Them: Yes. We wonderered if you had ever thought about God.

Me: Oh yes. All the time.

Them (surprised): Oh! What do you think about?

Me: Well, when I say think about I don't realy mean it (they grin in their innocence...) I actualy speak to him all the time. He always ansers me.

Them (shocked by now): ...and what does he say to you?

Me: That my religion is right of course. All others are wrong and will face eternal damnation unless I welcome them into my faith. The initiation is realy quite simple. Now then, where is it... (looking round and picking up an old duster I spot on the shelf). Ah, here it is! Now, please just stay still while I place this on your heads...

Them (hastily backing out of the garden gate): Oh, no. thank you. We can't...

Me (Chasing them own the road): Come back! Repent ye sinners. Be welcomed to the holy church of... (Break into fits of giggles)

Eeeeeeeh. Good fun. The Mrs hates me answring the door.

Did I ever tell you about the two cavity wall insulation salesmen who spent two hours selling us their product when we had no cavity walls?

:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: quokka
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:16 AM

We had two Mormons from the US, guys in their early twenties, coach my son's Under 7's Teeball team. They were very good coaches, never once pushed their religion on anyone at the club. I guess like in any faith, you get all sorts of people. It's easy to generalise and dismiss people as simply victims of indoctrination, but there is usually a lot more to it, especially if you get to know someone personally.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 10:54 AM

mmmm As a Christian.. I enjoy getting to know all the non Christians personally too....... I guess we can put up with them all and their funny ways..... Sorry folks but you do make me laugh sometimes..... Whatever our beliefs, we are all still the same species.... some of you talk as if "Religious" people are a different species........ Just because they don't have the same beliefs as you (or non beliefs) doesn't make them any worse... or better eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: peregrina
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:12 AM

Dismissing any individual because they are a member of a group you disagree with is prejudice, full stop. Fine to say you don't want to be indoctrinated, or won't buy double-glazing, but as long as it's a person, that's a fellow-human being.

All kinds of conflicts and problems start with the 'us-versus-them' model. Most people here dislike crypto-racism and prejudice in any form until someone they disagree with stands on the doorstep. Go figure.

I canvassed for nuclear disarmament in the US in the 1980s. Some people abused us, some people agreed; I had a lot of human respect for those who disagreed (or in neighborhoods where the feeling was violently pro-nuke) but were gracious.

Last time the mormons came, I said you can have a cup of tea and visit as long as you don't try to convert me. When we talked, I realized how young they were, how far from home, etc. Very decent lads.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:13 AM

Just because they don't have the same beliefs as you (or non beliefs) doesn't make them any worse... or better eh?

It makes them worse if they can't enjoy it on their own and keep it to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: peregrina
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:31 AM

So what do you propose doing with those you regard as 'worse'?
I think your view leads to a sinister slippery slope.

I'd say, it doesn't make them worse, it just means you disagree with the group they belong too. And otherwise you are equally human beings with human rights. (Of course, a person might think that to be wrong is a verb that only exists on the third person, and to be right, only in the first?)

Forgot to mention that the Mormon lads refused tea, and offered to hang out my washing for me--which I refused. And they didn't utter a word to convert me.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: kendall
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:35 AM

As J. Golden Kimball the Mormon preacher (former cowboy) said to a young missionary who had failed at it, "Maybe you should just stay home and make some Mormons."

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:35 AM

Dismissing any individual because they are a member of a group you disagree with is prejudice, full stop.

Now who's preaching?

You are acknowledging no shades of gray and none of the hubris one comes up against in these circumstances. Perhaps you are assuming all of these visitors are fresh-faced naive individuals who need pity. The angry response is more likely one of self-preservation by people who have been involuntarily subjected to objectionable behavior like this, with no recourse.

Think all of the years when smokers were able to pollute the indoor world, despite the protests and complaints, to no avail, of non-smokers. Religion can be much the same. Anyone else been a captive audience at a funeral, where the fire and brimstone preacher decides it's time to convert the crowd of mourners? Or at the municipal goverment meetings or other public events where the leaders insist that everyone pray to a christian god first?

Those who have a voice and reject the orthodoxy are fully entitled to make it clear that they object to the religion and object to individuals who feel entitled, or even obligated, to "share" their good news. How else will those people get the idea that what they are doing is not appropriate? That others disapprove of what they do?

No thanks to the "prejudice" Rx. It's just pushing back.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:39 AM

Well, at least they don't make phone calls.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: peregrina
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:43 AM

Objecting to the religion, food, smoke, diet, political party or whatever is fine. Saying it makes the person worse is something else.

'I disagree' versus 'you are a @(£*'

The US was partly settled by people who sought freedom from religious intolerance so they could practice their own often intolerant religion. Then they quickly set up their own polities of intolerance and expelled others. And so it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Slag
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 09:22 PM

These folks are like certain politicians you see on the TV. They are armed with "Talking Points" and little else. Bone up on some of the rules of logic and if you are so minded, have a little fun.

Like a good chess player you have to get them out of their "book". Most are really poor at thinking. Their aim is to direct the conversation (monologue actually) and get you to agree with certain statements. The unwary find themselves suddenly in complete agreement with the cult's version of reality. The main way they do this is by re-defining the meaning of certain words and phrases. And there are other charlatan tactics as well. This is mainly true of the Mormons and JWs and these two are the ones you will most likely encounter on your doorstep.

If you know any of the history of these two groups you can really enlighten them. When you get them out of their talking points they usually go running to their elders in confusion. Then the elder makes a call (if you allow it). He has learned greater set of "pat" answers with which to sway you! On it goes as long as you are willing to tolerate it.

There are other groups as well as individuals who take the admonition of the Bible as a divine directive and are honestly concerned about YOU and not THEIR religion. These will give you a more honest conversation, discussion. Of course, if you are NOT interested and NOT in favor of wasting your time you can dismiss them. If you REALLY find them annoying you can always make an official police/sheriff's report of criminal trespass and the NEXT visit will land them in jail!

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 03:09 AM

"It makes them worse if they can't enjoy it on their own and keep it to themselves."

Does it truly make me worse for ASKING you? If you say no I shouldn't keep pressing, that's a given.

My religion is something that gives me immense joy and I know it can do so for others. If they don't want it, then that's their choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:30 AM

Just because they don't have the same beliefs as you (or non beliefs) doesn't make them any worse... or better eh?

Just how different do their beliefs need to be Georgiansilver? Mormons? Ku Klux Klan? Taliban? They all believe with the same fervour that they are right and you are the one in the wrong. Do you feel that you have some sort of god-given right to decide which of these sects is any better or worse than the other?

Volgadon - Yes it does make you worse for asking. But it will not stop you will it? You say that it is a given that you will not press. Why then do you knock on my door over and over again? Not you personaly of course but if you sign up to a religion then I am afraid you will be tarred with the same brush as the fundementaists in your cult. And I am afraid I find it very arrogant that you KNOW that your religion can bring me immense joy to me. I feel pretty sure that my religion is very personal to me and it would do very little for anyone else. Why on earth should I even share my views with you unless asked? Or unless in a mudcat argument of course:-)

Cheers

DeG
(aka IrwellKuban)

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Acorn4
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:49 AM

You can't really prove your religion to anyone else.

If you could prove it, it would no longer be a religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Gedi
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:58 AM

I have no problem with those who ask and then leave when the response is a polite "no thanks, I have my own set of beliefs".

However the ones who persist in trying to push their views on me knowing that I have other beliefs is not acceptable. And to continue to thrust those views on me and to try to scare me by saying I will be dammned forever is the height of arrogance. It is these people, who will not take no for an answer, who really wind me up, and it is to these people I will be rude if necessary.

If there's one thing I hate in this world it's having someone else's beliefs rammed down my throat!

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 07:07 AM

Most religions around today seem to be based on a 'sacred text' (ST) of some sort (Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon etc.). This is assumed to represent 'The Voice of God' and to be the ultimate source of authority. Most religious 'fundamentalists', that I have met, can't seem to get beyond their particular ST when advancing their 'arguments'.
In his recent book 'God is not Great' Christopher Hitchens examines some of these texts and concludes that there is a very high probability that they are all man made and are often of dubious provenance. I am not at all surprised by this conclusion. Surely, all you need to say to a fundamentalist, on your doorstep, is: "I'll listen to what you have to say if you can convince me that your ST is really 'The Voice of God' and not the work of man".

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 07:28 AM

Absolutely fail to see how my asking makes me worse. Should nobody ever recommend a film, a band or even a new recipe to you? If you say no, then that's the last you'll hear of it from me.

I'm afraid it's rather arrogant of YOU to tar me with the same brush, especially if you don't know me, but that doesn't bother you in the slightest, does it. I don't answer for people I don't know, even if they are co-religionists. As a missionary, I kept notes of places that had said no. When transferred to another area, I already had no influence over the former. We have our share of idiots, of course, find me one group without.

Yes, I do know that what I believe will bring happiness, that's my conviction. I don't however believe in pressing or force-feeding it.

WHY is it wrong to ask?

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 07:53 AM

Volgadon. It obviously makes you happy so carry on doing whatever it is your religion tells you to do. Funny how "I know it can do so for others" has changed to "what I believe will bring happiness" but, what the heck, worse things have been changed in the name of religion.

If you fail to see the difference between recommending a new film or asking about my religious beliefs then I see no further point in progressing the argument. I know Lord of the Rings is quite emotive to some but I doubt vey much that it has been as instrumental in as many millions of deaths as Lord of the Christians. Somehow I cannot see Tomás de Torquemada sitting me in a comfy chair and recommending a new recipe for strawberry merangues...

As to taring with the same brush, well... You believe in an all powerful God and messenger sent by him to save the world. You believe you are right. You believe your religion will bring peace and happiness. So do the Taliban. What is the difference?

And my I remind you of something?

If you say no I shouldn't keep pressing, that's a given.

Well, I say no.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Emma B
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 07:57 AM

Sorry Volgadon that goes for me too - but you're still very welcome to a drink.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: quokka
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:14 AM

I guess it's like(I don't mean to be glib with people's beliefs, it's the appraoch I object to) telephone cold callers wanting to sell you a garage door or a new roof - if I needed a garage door I would seek one out. Often the impression is that the door-knockers are somehow preying on vulnerable and lonely people, sometimes (not always) to fleece them of their meagre cash. Now, no matter how devout YOUR faith is, the fact is that there ARE some unscrupulous people who DO prey on the vulnerable - heck, some of them are billionaires...well probly not now, but y'know, before God decided capitalism needed a bit of a kick up the arse for being so greedy, that is, a few weeks ago...BTW, didn't JC share all his stuff with all his mates? He wasn't a (SHOCK HORROR) socialist, was he???!!!

Goodbye (aka God be with ye)

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: quokka
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:28 AM

Meant to say "...wanting to sell you a garage door....AT DINNERTIME...when you have 50 things to do!!! Once I answered the persistent knocking of the door with a dripping wet baby I had to take out of the bath in order to answer the door - I only answered it because I thought it was an emergency, and yes, my baby had a fever, hence the cool bath. Having been up all night with said sick baby, I'm sure you understand it would have taken the patience of Job to not be annoyed at the intrusion of the god-botherer, or was Job not actually very patient? It's been a while since I caught up wit good ol' Job......
-Peace be with you all-

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:34 AM

Does it truly make me worse for ASKING you? If you say no I shouldn't keep pressing, that's a given.

My religion is something that gives me immense joy and I know it can do so for others. If they don't want it, then that's their choice.

I have a sign on my door. It can be seen from the curb. So if you come into my yard anyway when I have telegraphed to you that I don't want to hear about your religion, then there is something wrong. It is the arrogance of some of these christian religions to assume that they are above the general courtesy on trespassing, and the "no" you first receive really means "maybe." It doesn't.

One woman dismissed my protest that she rang my bell by saying "Well, I wasn't selling anything."

My quick retort as she turned down the path was "give me a break. You're trying to sell immortal souls." She kind of flinched.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:40 AM

"Volgadon. It obviously makes you happy so carry on doing whatever it is your religion tells you to do. Funny how "I know it can do so for others" has changed to "what I believe will bring happiness" but, what the heck, worse things have been changed in the name of religion."

Nice try. Here is what I said: Yes, I do know that what I believe will bring happiness, that's my conviction.

How is that different from this: My religion is something that gives me immense joy and I know it can do so for others.

Nice little bit of underhandedness there, Dave, or maybe you just didn't read carefully.

I'm not hoisting my religion on you, mate. I'm trying to figure where you get off telling me that I am the same as Torquemada or the Taliban.

"As to taring with the same brush, well... You believe in an all powerful God and messenger sent by him to save the world. You believe you are right. You believe your religion will bring peace and happiness. So do the Taliban. What is the difference?"

Maybe the fact that I don't believe that violence, force or compulsion should have any place in a religion?

My question to you is what is the difference between you and a bigot? Both tar people they don't agree with or like with the same brush.

And really, if someone wanted to take your argument to it's absurd and logical conclusion, then picking up a paycheck is wrong, because thousands upon thousands of crimes have been commited for the sake of money.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:42 AM

You are absolutely right in that case, SRS.

Does it truly make me worse for ASKING you? If you say no I shouldn't keep pressing, that's a given.

My religion is something that gives me immense joy and I know it can do so for others. If they don't want it, then that's their choice.

I have a sign on my door. It can be seen from the curb. So if you come into my yard anyway when I have telegraphed to you that I don't want to hear about your religion, then there is something wrong. It is the arrogance of some of these christian religions to assume that they are above the general courtesy on trespassing, and the "no" you first receive really means "maybe." It doesn't.

One woman dismissed my protest that she rang my bell by saying "Well, I wasn't selling anything."

My quick retort as she turned down the path was "give me a break. You're trying to sell immortal souls." She kind of flinched.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 10:33 AM

No underhandedness at all Volgadon - Maybe I did misunderstand but the phrase "My religion is something that gives me immense joy and I know it can do so for others" says quite clearly that your religion will bring immense joy to 'others'. Not some others, not a few, but just 'others'. The phrase "Yes, I do know that what I believe will bring happiness, that's my conviction" contains no mention of anyone else but yourself. The difference between the two is that you first said it would bring joy to others and then narrowed it to yourself. I will give you the benefit of the doubt though and assume you were being unclear rather than underhanded. Can you clarify what you mean for the sake of us mortals not equiped with divine understanding? :-)

Secondly, I'm not telling you that you are the same as the Taliban or Torquemada. I am just saying that they share the same beliefs as you. Their approach is quite different to yours but what they did and still do, they do in the name of your religion whether you like it or not. You can either work actively to stop them doing so or you can get out of the club. I chose the latter. If you stay in the club and do nothing to stop the extemism then you are as good as condoning it. If you can show how you are active in stopping them then my hat is off to you.

Thirdly - If being a bigot means speaking out against something I believe to be wrong then, yes, I am a bigot. If being a bigot means I do not suffer fools gladly then again, yes, I am a bigot. If being a bigot means questioning religious beleiefs then, you guessed it, yes, I am a bigot. I have never come across your novel definition of a bigot though and am not quite sure why you say it. Like I said - I am not 'tarring you'. Just pointing out that these people do commit attrocities in the name of your beliefs and, as yet, you have not told us what you are doing about it.

Finaly, once again, If you say no I shouldn't keep pressing, that's a given. I have said no. You keep pressing. I will not comment on that but ask others to draw their own conclusion:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: gnu
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:02 AM

Oh oh! I just opened this thread and reached for my cup, absentmindedly forgetting the swollen arthritic knuckles and, for the fourth time in a few days, spilled hot tea. Even though I had placed my cup on a folded towel and the clean up would be simple and quick, I hollered very loudly.

Within one second... doorbell. Yup. A mother and daughter, with those pamphlets about the guy I "hollered to". I almost burst out laughing when the very first thought entered my mind as I opened the door... what a coincidence! I was just praying.

Right. Another towel and more tea.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:46 AM

No, I didn't narrow it, I just forgot to type 'others'. Had I narrowed it, I would probably have added 'to me'.

"Finaly, once again, If you say no I shouldn't keep pressing, that's a given. I have said no. You keep pressing. I will not comment on that but ask others to draw their own conclusion:-)"

Lovely. Either I shut up and concede your point that I share the same belief as the Taliban, or I can speak up, in which case you go 'see, he insists on hounding people,' or words to that effect.
Where was I pressing my religion on you, which is what that quote reffers to. Where was I asking you to talk about your own faith, which you said is deeply personal?
You are spouting nonsense about me, I want to refute it.
Very nice tactic, Dave.

"Secondly, I'm not telling you that you are the same as the Taliban or Torquemada. I am just saying that they share the same beliefs as you"

Rather abstractly and superficially, but then it is easy to deal in generalisations.

"Their approach is quite different to yours but what they did and still do, they do in the name of your religion whether you like it or not. You can either work actively to stop them doing so or you can get out of the club. I chose the latter. If you stay in the club and do nothing to stop the extremism then you are as good as condoning it. If you can show how you are active in stopping them then my hat is off to you."

Ok, what are you doing about it? Sticking your head in the sand?
How has THAT helped stop extremists? I believe in freedom of conscience, I believe in protecting people's religious rights even if they are very different to my own. I vote for laws that will uphold them. I believe in seperation of church and state, and living which does have a state religion, I use my vote to try and change that. If I were to come across any extremists in my own religion, I would try my hardest to dissuade them.
I try to learn as much as I can about other religions and how they believe and see things, because ignorance invariably leads to trouble.
If you expect me to stop the Taliban singlehandedly, then you are in for a long wait.

Nobody does anything in the abstract name of 'religion'. No, people do things in the name of THEIR religion.
The Taliban believe in an all-powerful god, so do I, but the difference lies in who he is and what his relationship to us is. Sure, they believe in messengers from god, but we differ as to who they were, their role and their message. There is a world of difference in there. I believe that God has given everyone free will, the right to make their own choices and that FORCING every knee to bow and every tongue confess (to borrow a Biblical phrase) is WRONG and that it offends God. Let God deal with them in his own time and own way.
Excuse me, but I disagree with you that the Taliban believes that they are spreading happiness and joy.   

"Like I said - I am not 'tarring you'. Just pointing out that these people do commit attrocities in the name of your beliefs and, as yet, you have not told us what you are doing about it."

No, they commit atrocities in the name of THEIR beliefs. I am as responsible for them as you yourself are.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:15 PM

No tactics at all, Volgadon, never mind nice ones. You state quite categorcaly "If you say no I shouldn't keep pressing, that's a given" yet you continue to post. This started as a humourous thread about what to do with religious canvassers. It was always obvious that the evangelists would use it as an excuse to peddle religion. You make the excuse that you will only until someone asks you to stop yet when someone disagrees you continue to harange them. Priceless - I couldn't make it up:-)

I am as responsible for them as you yourself are That is one certainty that we can agree on. I know what I am doing about it. Once again - what are you doing?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:27 PM

Read above. If you want to hold yourself accountable, do so. I, OTOH, have nothing whatsoever to do with Torquemada or the Taliban.
Ridiculous of you to hold me responsible in any way.

I am not peddling my religion, thankee. I was speaking from my own expereince with the subject, then replying to things you said about me, so if you can't stomach views different from your own, tough.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:33 PM

Posted a bit early. Wanted to add this. I was not knocking on your door to talk to you about my religion, I have no intention of talking to you about my religion, as anyone could see it would be futile and I wouldn't waste my time doing so.

Context, as ever, is important. I was talking about KNOCKING ON A DOOR with the express purpose of proselyting. I don't however see why I shouldn't be able to defend myself from ridiculous accusations on an internet forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Deckman
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 03:14 PM

I'll DRINK to that! CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 03:26 PM



Ahhhhh - Should have realised that you were a Mormon as well. That's the lot that go around baptising dead people if evidence is to be believed. As in this one of many articles

Sounds pretty daft to me. If you are not a baptised Mormon you will suffer damnation for eternity so those who have not had chance to be redeemed have redemption foisted upon them? Hmmmmm. You will not knock on doors if people don't want you too but you will happily support a cult that baptises people who can no longer protest? No wonder it feels like banging my head on a brick wall.

BTW - I have read the book or mormon (as well as the old testament, the new, the qoran and grimms book of fairy tales.) I think I still have a copy somewhere. Must dig it out sometime and check out what ol' Joe has to say in Alma 34:35-36. Wonder if it is something like those who are not mormons go to hell, end of story. If so at least I should have the pleasure of never meeting another one, even if they do decide to baptise me later:-)

I have also visited the same prison where both Joe Smith and Jesse James were incarcerated - Liberty Jail wasn't it? They both built up quite a following on a perculiar basis didn't they. One for seeing things that were not there and one for killing people. Can't recall which did what.

Oh - don't take this as a personal attack. I'm sure you are a very nice bloke. And I dislike all organised religions equaly.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:52 PM

I'm not going to engage in a religious debate beyond saying that you are wrong, we don't believe that you go to Hell if you aren't a Mormon. Do dig out a copy and reread those verses, then see that in context he is addressing people who belonged to the church, people who were rebelling against God and unrepentant. We do not believe that being baptised into the church gaurantees you a place in Heaven, and that all non Mormons go to Hell. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure you know what we mean by heaven and hell.
As for baptism for the dead, you don't really know what our doctrine behind that is either. Redemption isn't FOISTED on anyone, as baptism does NOT ensure redemption. Be nice if it were that easy.
All that baptism for the dead does is give them an opportuntiy. Since you seem to know so much about us, you should know that we believe that freedom of choice extends beyond the grave and that the mere undertaking of an ordinance guarantees nothing.
I don't insist that you agree with me (don't really care even), but at least try to understand how WE see things. Does marvels for tolerance, though perhaps you don't think that extends to religious people. I try to extend the same courtesy, of understanding, to any faith, as well as to atheists.
Before you start on about how I said I wouldn't press, remember that you brought up the last points.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:39 PM

OK - I'll make it nice and simple.

What right does your church have to baptise those who do not ask for a mormon baptism? Let it be said right up front and now, I never, ever in any circumstances wish to be baptised into the cult that you follow either by proxy or in any other way . Not do I want your leaders intefering with the memory of my ancestors. Will you guarantee that it will never be done?

Or how about this. I am saying NO loud and clear. Will you assure me that none of your sect will ever knock on my door again? To save both my time and your collegues shoeleather can you put me onto your version of a preference service that says 'No thanks. I don't want to discuss your dogma.' I can assure you that either the sign or our door doesn't work or your missionaries that called at our house cannot read.

BTW - What makes you think I am either atheist or non religious? I have only ever said I am against organise religions.

Finaly, can you explain what is meant by the following quote...

they who are filthy shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.

Happy little fantasist wasn't he:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Melissa
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:54 PM

Volgadon:
"...Does marvels for tolerance..."

this seems like a good time/place for me to ask about the section covering Missouri. It doesn't seem overly tolerant to me.


When people come knocking, I generally greet them with a friendly smile (which is how I'm greeted by them) and the understanding that they're doing Sales--hopefully because they believe they have an excellent product and want to share it.
So, I greet them with that pleasant smile and say "No thanks, I'm alright..please give someone else my share" and shut the door nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Mrrzy, where's my cookie?
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 07:09 PM

Hi, you do mean people who come to your door to preach their religion, not people who come to your door to discover/promote political ideas and use religious arguments in so doing, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:09 PM

They're always very polite and friendly, in my experience. They go away if you indicate you don't wan to talk to you, they are always happy to gossip about anything if you do want to talk.

Maybe we've been lucky in the ones we've had.

No one has mentioned Les Barker's "Jehovah's Witness at the door", in which God has to hide when the JWs turn up on his doorstep.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 02:49 PM

I always tell them that if it wasn't for sinner like me, there would be no use for them. I'll talk for hours until they are frozen cold, wet,bored or re-converted. I have read that you should keep a folder with pictures of S&M practices and porn etc, tell them you are a sinner and they have come just in the nick of time to save you because you have devoloped unnatural interests in these (showing them the folder) and asking for their opinion as to how you may be saved after describing your feelings and lusts.

I'm just going to get my folder started now............

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:14 PM

You'll get yourself arrested for that, EtV. In the U.S., anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: gnu
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:22 PM

Sex is still illegal in the US?

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:54 PM

Is that? Talking for hours until they are frozen cold, wet,bored or re-converted? Or the folder of indecent images?

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 08:45 PM

Anyone want to add a verse to Old time religion?

Joyce McKinney's getting it all on
with the Osmonds being long gone
It's a good time to be a Mormon
Once she sets you free

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 10:50 PM

The folder of images. You hear on the news regularly about guys who have images in their computers who are busted. What is the difference between a computer and a folder? Just make sure it isn't child porn, if that is your plan, or your days on the outside are numbered.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:53 AM

You want me to explain, alright.

"And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end."

This about the Devil, his followers from pre-earth life and the few, such as Cain, who have commited sins that even the Lord won't forgive.
The prophet Jacob was being very figurative, describing what they would feel.
It is not about about non-Mormons or people who have led what we see as a rotten life.

"BTW - What makes you think I am either atheist or non religious? I have only ever said I am against organised religions."

Never said you were.

"Or how about this. I am saying NO loud and clear. Will you assure me that none of your sect will ever knock on my door again? To save both my time and your collegues shoeleather can you put me onto your version of a preference service that says 'No thanks. I don't want to discuss your dogma.' I can assure you that either the sign or our door doesn't work or your missionaries that called at our house cannot read."

You are saying no to the wrong person. I am not on a mission anymore, I am not even on the same continent as you are. You don't want them coming round, well next time you see any of our missionaries, then tell them. Have them write down 'never knock at el gnomo's' and tape it to their door. It's a waste of breath telling me, as I have no control over the missionaries in your area. Frankly, it's not my problem.

"What right does your church have to baptise those who do not ask for a mormon baptism? Let it be said right up front and now, I never, ever in any circumstances wish to be baptised into the cult that you follow either by proxy or in any other way . Not do I want your leaders intefering with the memory of my ancestors. Will you guarantee that it will never be done?"

You overestimate my power. As the policy is that names should only be submitted by kin, then that is your problem, not mine. It would be nice if you were to make your wishes known to any relatives or posterity, would sure save those involved some time and effort as it would be useless to do any work for you, you've already made your choice.

-----------

Melissa, that is a shame. Tell them so.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 05:08 AM

Any form of evangelism is the greatest arrogance. What right has anyone to assume that their religious beliefs/convictions are superior in any way to mine? In my experience, they're usually a bunch of meat-heads who know nothing of comparative religion. I wonder how they'd react if a Satanist knocked on their door and tried to convert them

I've no objection to anyone holding whatever religious beliefs they like just as long as they keep them to themselves and don't try to thrust them down my throat or bring them into politics, where they have no place whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 07:13 AM

Great Volgadon - Just the ammo I need next time those besuited grinning tossers come a'knocking. Questions nicely lined up -

1. So you believe in a god that thinks there are some sins that just should never be forgoven. Fine - You stick to your god and I'll stick to mine:-)

2. You only baptise those who's kin ask them do you? Well, what about the holocaust victims that you have baptised against the wishes of both their families and their faith? (I am going to keep this article handy.)

3. There is already sign on my door that says quite categoricaly NO SALESMEN, HAWKERS OR CANVASSERS. I am going to ask by what right to they chose to ignore my wishes.

As to 'it's not my problem'. Well, your religion, your choice to stay with them, your problem. Like I said before I disagreed with lots of things in the organised religions I tried so I voted with my feet. If enough people do it the leaders of that particular church will get the picture.

As it says in the great book of Gnome (4:17)

"If they god should disagree with thee, tell him to fuck off and find another. There's plenty to go round."

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 07:44 AM

"1. So you believe in a god that thinks there are some sins that just should never be forgoven. Fine - You stick to your god and I'll stick to mine:-)"

Was I saying you shouldn't? What this started from was me asking why it made me worse to ask someone if they wanted to hear.
Stick to your god, that's fine by me, it's between you and him after all.

"2. You only baptise those who's kin ask them do you? Well, what about the holocaust victims that you have baptised against the wishes of both their families and their faith? (I am going to keep this article handy.)"

That was wrong, it has been stopped. I am half-Jewish, BTW, and the entire family remaining in Europe was wiped out, so I do understand why carrying out that ordinance without consent upset those families.

"As to 'it's not my problem'. Well, your religion, your choice to stay with them, your problem. Like I said before I disagreed with lots of things in the organised religions I tried so I voted with my feet. If enough people do it the leaders of that particular church will get the picture."

So, because someone ignored your sign and knocked on your door I should leave and break promises I have made to my God? That isn't just slightly arrogant and presumptive on your part? Or if you ment baptism for the dead, if you ever have a relative or descendent who converts, should I leave because they submitted names from their family? That is YOUR family affair, not mine.

"3. There is already sign on my door that says quite categoricaly NO SALESMEN, HAWKERS OR CANVASSERS. I am going to ask by what right to they chose to ignore my wishes."

Go ahead, ask THEM, not me. I agree with you, signs should not be ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 09:25 AM

That was wrong, it has been stopped.

Direct quote from the article concerend.
"The wrongful posthumous baptism of Jewish dead continues, including that of Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal in 2006. The Church continues to posthumously baptize Jewish Holocaust victims. The matter is still unresolved as of the summer of 2008."

Even if they stop it now the damage has been done. How can you undo a desecration of someones memory? I know for a fact that if any of my ancestors, including my granfather and his father before him, who were both Rusian Orthodox priests, were subjected to this ridiculous ritual it would cause no end of upset in the family.

Some have likened this to the forced baptism of Jews by Catholics or to the desecration of graves by Satanists. I am not willing to go that far myself but it is a good indicator of the strength of feeling against it and why it should stop. I am asking no-one to leave their religion. Just that their religion should leave other people alone. Yours very obviously doesn't and you are happy to carry on making excuses for it. As long as you continue to preach that trying to inflict your views on other people, both alive and dead, is OK then I will continue to oppose that view.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 09:25 AM

Oh - and 100 :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Slag
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 07:07 PM

Just a little theological response to Guest Volgaqdon's 10/28, 2:53AM post as well as some earlier comments. Book of Galatians 1:6-9 Paul writing, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ. BUT THOUGH WE, OR AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL UNTO YOU, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. AS WE SAID BEFORE, SO SAY I NOW AGAIN, IF ANY MAN PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL UNTO YOU THAN THAT YE HAVE RECEIVED, LET HIM BE ACCURSED." emphasis mine.

Point here being that the New Testament has historical precedence and here, in the Letter to the Galatians as well as other places the door is closed on any OTHER "gospels" of Christ. What we know of Christ and his teachings, we know only through the New Testament. If that teaching is fundamentally altered, as it is in Mormonism, it is a different "gospel" and falls under this twice enounced curse.

If you are a non-believer this makes little or no difference to you about the person standing on your doorstep. You have made your choices, but to followers of Christ this is of enormous importance. If you are a believer you ought to really know and understand WHAT it is that you believe.

Sorry about the thread drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:29 PM

Whatta buncha dopes! The problem's the POLITICAL canvassers, not the religious ones! :~)

Me, to a campaign phoner: "Excuse me, stop right there. I have a grand total of ten minutes for politics this year. Do you want me to spend it on the phone, with you, or do you want me to go vote?"

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:42 PM

Hehehe - Well said, Susan. There is a bigger problem though - What about when the religious canvassers are politcal or when the polital canvassers are religious! I suppose they deserve an double kick up the bum:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:24 PM

I remember two JW`s calling coming to my door and handing over their Mag The Watchtower, this was a few weeks before the GranD National, I turned over a few pages and asked them why there was no tips for this years race, telling them that their tipster had forecast last years winneR.
The look on their faces was priceless, and the remedy for the Mormons is telling them you will join when there is two black Africans a`calling, it works.
Never slam the door in their faces, it isn`t nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 08:18 PM

JWs are dead easy to get rid off - tell tem you will swap the Watchtower for your own religious newspaper (Keep one handy by the door, The Catholic Herald is pretty good.) They are not allowed to touch anyone elses publications and will run a mile rather than accept one. Makes you wonder how secure their founder was if he would not let his followers read anything but his words.

Mormons accept that other people can have their own views but will get quite upset if you suggest that Joe Smith was a coniving little confidence trickster who never made as much money as L Ron Hubbard...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,fredbert
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:07 PM

It makes them worse if they can't enjoy it on their own and keep it to themselves.

Joe Smith was a coniving little confidence trickster who never made as much money as L Ron Hubbard...

remedy for the Mormons is telling them you will join when there is two black Africans a`calling, it works.

Would a simple no not suffice, Mormons were the first into New Orleans ask any one they will tell you, gave help and provisions with no preaching. They were there before the Gov was.

They are at any place in the world were help is needed, they advise the US Gov on such matters and have a network that is second to none with regards to distributing aid, they do not bum and blow about it so it is no surprise many are ignorant of the facts.

How do people think this is paid for, the money that is raised by the Church is from its own people no charity drives or fund raising is allowed. I'd say the Hubbard fellow is not as rich in any terms.

Ard get ready to join follow this link http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/blackmormon/000H14.html

With regards to the issue of black members the people who kicked off the most about it wer white, the Black/coloured members accepted the situation. It is what religion is about believing in something.

Next time you knock the Mormons ask yourself how many lives you have saved today. What network do you belong to that gives aid without any catches and no looking for recognition or pats on the back.

Why a simple no thanks is beyond so-called humanists.

fredbert News At Ten unashamed bad Mormon from front living room.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 05:38 AM

fredbert - when your leaders tell the 'troops' to stop pestering other people and when they stop desecrating other peoples memories, then you can start to tell us how good you are. Until then remember the widows mite and what Jesus had to say about people who proclaim loudly how much good they are doing. I would rather keep any good works I do to myself thank you.

Now go back to your cult and stop bothering us. Is that a simple enough 'no' for you?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: theleveller
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 07:55 AM

"What network do you belong to that gives aid without any catches and no looking for recognition or pats on the back."

The human race - and one that doesn't look for reward in the next life. 'Without any catches', my arse!

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 05:49 AM

Quite a thread. I'm heartened that my original approach was the correct one, though disheartened that when I went onto YouTube to search for the South Park episode on Mormonism the episode, is, for whatever reason, unsearchable and the YouTube search engine defaults to Mormon films.

What gives in the land of the free?

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Gervase
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 10:25 AM

I think it's that religions regard themselves as, er sacrosanct, and therefore it's infra dig to criticise them.
I had a couple of JWs in the kitchen for nearly three hours once, debating the niceties of the various biblical translations. They were a pleasant enough couple, if a little ill-informed and rather dim, but I regarded it as my civic duty to save them from bothering the neighbours. i think I even had one of them doubting his faith, but his oppo was determined to keep him strong.
What added a rather surreal touch to it was that my daughter was watching The Wicker Man on video in the adjoining room, so I had Britt Eckland's body-double gyrating in the buff over their shoulders at one point.
On the whole, however, I do wish people wouldn't feel compelled to knock on doors to tell people about their imaginary friends. The brighter ones can provide some diversion, but the dimmer ones (the majority, in my experience), just recite stuff they've learned by rote and, in extremis, simply insist that it's in scripture so it must be true. Life's too short to be abusive to them, however. They're more to be pitied than scorned (to use a nice biblical phrase).

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 11:08 AM

Love it, Gervase. Particular the imaganary friend bit and Britt's body double gyrating on his shoulders:-D

Glad I didn't have a mouthful of tea!

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 12:38 PM

"...simply insist that it's in scripture so it must be true."

I had 2 JWs once debate with me and read me bible verses to support their points. When I explained that I didn't accept the origin or authority OF the bible, they said "we'll be beck"...so they went away and actually DID come back a couple days later with a 'more experienced' elder to clarify matters. He read me DIFFERENT bible verses to support the first bible verses.. I don't think even he comprehended MY point about not accepting the source of his argument as infallible.

I haven't seen any of them for a couple of years now...I think maybe my house # is on a "hopeless" list.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 02:37 PM

If its 2 women who knock the door

Say "Ah good evening, are you the 2 hookers I booked. Do come in, I have the bedroom ready"

If they come in, you have it made. They can recite the bible whilst you have your wicked way. :-)

Seriously, I had a couple of nice women knock the door the other day. Befor they could say anything, I said "Nobody in this house is religious, so you are wasting your time"
They apologised for disturbing me and left.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 04:11 PM

Because they are usually nice people, I talk to the J.W.s till they attempt to hand me a Watchtower.

"Oh no! Graven images! Away with you!"

*SLAM*

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 04:15 PM

"I see it uses Times New Roman, the Devil's font!"

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: bfdk
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:10 PM

We don't get them here, we've got door phones these days.

An old teacher of mine once told us school kids that she'd open the door, smile politely and say to whoever was out there 'Thanks but no thanks, you see, I'm a philatelist'.

She was, too ;-)

She claimed said approach worked wonderfully.

Bente

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 03:27 AM

A fellatelist? What kind of school did you go to?

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 05:02 AM

My wife pointed out that squirting them with tomato sauce as soon as they open their mealy-mouths might count as assault. Ah well, bang goes that idea then! Strange how Mormons and JWs hawking their evil odious insane bullshit door-to-door doesn't count as assault though. This is terminal mind-fuck delivered by brainwashed cultists convinced they are dealing in absolute truth; it is a psychological offence right where people should be at their safest. Let them into my home and be nice to them? I'd have the bastarding scumbags criminalised at the very least; such people ought to be defined as mentally-ill, a danger to both themselves and society, and treated accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:08 AM

Yeah, yeah, right.... for sure, man...

*backing away slowly*

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:10 AM

"A fellatelist? What kind of school did you go to?"

Obviously, a school which taught reading & spelling....

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Acorn4
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:14 PM

As we all know, philately will get you nowhere!

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:49 PM

I haven't seen any of them for a couple of years now...I think maybe my house # is on a "hopeless" list.

Bill, how do you REALLY know I'm not in deep cover? :~) A SLEEPER MAYBE?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:25 PM

bfdk, what does the "k" stand for?

I am a philatelist AND a numismatist! I go either way and both! That alone ought to be enough to scare off porch step prophets.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: GUEST,One who knows
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 04:32 PM

Some funny stuff here, found it by accident.
1. Mormons don't drink tea, coffee or cola , at least the 2 lads I invited in from a blinding snowstorm didn't. I asked them about neutrality in war cos they don't conscienciously object. How they could kill other people who just might be mormon, they said that God would make the bullet.....miss!
2. Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in the common consensus of " hell " i.e. firey lake of torment. They say that hell is translated from new testament ( Greek scriptures )word of Hades, whilst old testament Hebrew word is " sheol ", both being the " common grave of mankind ". That God's eternal damnation is simply eternal death, nothingnes, which from a living standpoint is an unbearable thought.
3. They believe that armageddon will be God's judgement exactly as in Noah's day and survivors will live forever on earth, governed by Christ as king, and 144,000 co-rulers ' bought from the earth ' by dying faithfully, once sinners but cleansed by their actions in faith of the value of his sacrificial blood.
4. All those who died throughout history without knowledge of God's requirements will be resurrected to judgement i.e. their actions after being given a thorough education by the new heavenly kingdom government for a 1,000 years, in perfect peace and eternal life.
5. They don't ask for or expect any money from people for their literature. All of the cost of printing etc. is from their voluntary contributions, not perfunctory percentages of wages as with mormons.

Yes I've read many of their books and find them not so extremist as zealous, sincerely interested in us lot. They refer to a bit in the bible that says...." This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the earth as a witness to all the nations, then the end will come." They're not that complicated really, and they do not come back if you tell them not to, unless they didn't pass it on to their buddies. Hope you guys found this helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 06:50 AM

After a bit of searching I found the South Park episode 712 All About Mormons Here - Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb...

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 05:48 PM

Can't believe I missed this thread first time round... Brother Beard, tell us more of this Neo-Gnostic Marxist-Jesuist Humanism you speak of...

I always find "I'm not religious, but let me get my boyfriend" works wonders...

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 06:31 AM

Lordy, I never knew all that crazy stuff about the Book of Mormon!
South Park rocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 08:38 AM

I was home this week working around the house. I was puttering with something, turned around and there were 2 men dressed in long black coats standing outside my door (big window in the door) and they were just standing there watching me. They hadn't knocked. It was almost creepy. Meanwhile, my 120 pound dog was laying in front of the door. She had her head up and knew something was going on. As I walked to the door, she sat up, ears up. One of the men started tapping on the door and she stood up. I took hold of her collar, opened the door slightly, leaving the storm door closed. My dog was quiet but very alert, I could feel the tension in her body. So...the door was open and still, these two men in long black winter coats and hats stood there....didn't say a word. So I said, "Can I help you?"   I wasn't sure what they wanted and their agenda was not clear until they started to speak. I politely told them that I attended a church I liked thinking they would say okay and go away. Wrong. "I know you THINK you may go to a God loving church but.............." Meanwhile, my dog is now growling a low rumble. The longer the man spoke, the more she growled. I simply stopped him by saying, "I'm really not interested." and I closed the door. I think they should have left right away, I think that they are idiots to stand in front of a huge dog who clearly does not appreciate their presence, an obvious unwelcome sign.   I wonder how long they were there. The watching thing creeped me out the most.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Mickey191
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 09:49 AM

My medium sized dog & I answered the door as I held her collar. The door was opened just enough to make eye contact & find out who the lone person was(The partner was curbside) After the intro I replied "I'm not interested." The lady rolled up the JW tract and threw it through the door saying "Let the dog read it!"

A CRABBY WITNESS! Is this a first?

My cousin had a JW couple come to her door & they turned away after she said she was not interested. She went back to the dishes she was doing & spied the couple & 2 others eating sandwiches at her picnic table.   THAT'S NERVE!

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 01:26 PM

Many years ago, one hot summmer's morning, I was up a ladder at the front of my house, shirt off, putting a coat of paint on the window frames. A man and a lady, dressed soberly in black, bags under their arms, walked up and stopped. I guessed what they were.

"Hallo", one said, "Do you live here?"

"No", I said, "I'm the painter and decorator."

"Oh - is anyone in?" asked the other.

"Sorry - no." I replied.

They muttered to one another and then one surprisingly piped up with, "Do you make a good living from this kind of work?"

"Well, yes, I do normally. But I'm doing this job for free - the lady of the house lets me sleep with her."

Silence. Off they went.

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 02:59 PM

I tell them two things. 1. I know about their religion and 2. I'm not interested.

If they don't accept the former I explain that JW's don't salute the flag, don't allow their children to play with "outsiders" and have their own version of the bible.

They usually disappear.

With Mormons, the same thing pretty much. They don't allow this and that. They don't accept outsiders.

A little research on these "cults" (and that's what they are) helps.

Stringsinger

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 03:16 PM

Oh, Stringsinger, you're missing all the fun of saying Sure, you can try to convert me, and I'll try to convert you, I'm an atheist! Then you get into some really interesting conversations and if you happen to get someone who's actually thinking, you can watch the other one take them away!

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 04:51 PM

Here's a pamphlet you can hand out to them

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 03:42 AM

LOL! EXcellent - I'm printing it as I write this...

Subject: RE: BS: Religious Canvassers
From: Roughyed
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 08:20 AM

I ended up in a conversation with some Jehovah's Witnesses a few years ago because I couldn't escape without being really rude so I asked them if they were vegetarian. They said they weren't so I suggested they look at Genesis 1.28. They came back with Noah who asked god for permission to kill an animal after the flood. I pointed out that this rather indicated that you needed direct permission to eat meat and hit them with Isiah. They countered with Leviticus and I pointed out that if you had to back up your view with Leviticus you had already lost and that in any case I had given them two quotes that you should be veggie and they had given me two that you didn't have to be so it didn't fill me with confidence in the book they all came from. A working knowledge of Tom Paine's Age of Reason is handy as well!