 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Yuletide - the Solstice
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: PoppaGator Date: 30 Dec 08 - 02:19 PM I just noticed an "above-the-line" thread on "Folklore: Celebrating the Solstice." I found it interesting that there was a much less contentious tone in that discussion up there, in contrast to the some of the "anti-pagan" rhetoric down here in BS-land. That other discussion does include a serious bit of disagreement about the "Celtic-ness" of early Britain, but the argument is exceedingly polite an basically academic, with no one taking offense at anything. I am entirely in favor of Chrsitanity, but I am also absolutely comfortable with the notion that early Church authorities "appropriated" existing worshipful customs and adapted them to the new religion. I do NOT see celebration of Christmas and of Yuletide/Solstice as an "either/or" choice: both refer to the coming of light into the world, and I would hepe we can all agree that this is good, and that we can all share in each other's best wishes! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: PoppaGator Date: 30 Dec 08 - 12:59 PM I would have thought that celebration of the solstice would be something everyone could agree upon. Shame on anyone who tries to twist this discussion into something divisive! Whether one believes in God or not, or isn't sure, or adheres to one brand of orthodoxy or another, or none at all, we certainly all inhabit a complex world where very much is uncertain, but where one of the few certainties is that the days get shorter and shorter as every year comes to an end, and then they finally begin to lengthen again as the cycle of life is reborn once again. The fact that various religions have found ways to incorporate this ancient observance, each into its own calendar and in support of its own credo, only emphasizes the universal truth behind the celebration. So lighten up, y'all! Literally!!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Mr Red Date: 30 Dec 08 - 12:18 PM have we past the latest sunrise yet? I don't think so. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: maeve Date: 30 Dec 08 - 08:40 AM May the returning Light greet each of us; restoring hope and helping us to extend the hand of friendship. maeve |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Sleepy Rosie Date: 30 Dec 08 - 08:20 AM "Roll on Imbolc" Aye, to that. Race you for the first Snowdrop..! In fact if you do open a thread near to the time, hopefully I'll have figured out how to get photy's postable, and I'll be able to post piccy's of Imbolc snowdrops. This may sound a strange question, but as a long term Wiccan Bryn, in your opinion does Wicca have any 'Prophets' as such? How much of the founding materials of Wicca were possibly forged from personal divine revelation? There are certain echoes that I see in the tripartite nature of the Wiccan Goddess and some similar expressions of the Gnostic Sophia for eg. Of course there's been a whole lot of relatively recent debunking of the early 'cloathing' of Wicca as The Old Religion. But I think most Wiccans are fine with all that stuff now. So what I'm really interested in, is to what extent, Gardener et al, were arguably 'prophets' and cloathing their direct and genuine personal gnosis in 'ye olde' packaging? (Implicit in my question is of course the acceptance of the premise that there is indeed such a thing as personal gnosis, or revelation.) This probably isn't the place for such a question... And it's no doubt a quite impossible one to answer! But the thought struck me when you posted a message further down the thread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Bryn Pugh Date: 30 Dec 08 - 05:31 AM SR - aye, or in some other convenient orifice . . . Roll on Imbolc, when I shall (if I'm let) give some folk the further opportunity to be rude, to call themselves names, to require the thread to be closed, and then to be all apologetic . . . My youngest grandson behaves like this, as does my great-granddaughter. Wise and Blessed Be, all Friends on the 'Cat - you know who you are. E & B |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Sleepy Rosie Date: 24 Dec 08 - 05:07 PM "Spit roast puritan anyone? Sorry, Sleepy - I can't let this comment pass without a fnaar fnaar..." A tippet - when spit roasting dried-out little puritans, it's worth basting them with plenty of goose-grease first. I'm told they squeal something awful too. So a seasonal satsuma (a la Michael Hutchence) stuffed in the gullet should help... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: goatfell Date: 24 Dec 08 - 07:24 AM OK I will leave, but if you want to close this thread ask Joe offer to do so, don't blame me, I didn't start this thread, all I was doing was putting across my views and I might not have to same cleveriness as you lot or the same diplomatic way of saying/doing things and I have said that I'm sorry about the way I behave, but I don't think that I got angry at all and if I did then I'm sorry. So Goodbye but remember I'll always be there behind you lot and I will put my views across wither you like or not. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: theleveller Date: 24 Dec 08 - 06:05 AM Troll, that rather smacks of hedging your bets with the almighty :0 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Jack Blandiver Date: 24 Dec 08 - 05:37 AM Spit roast puritan anyone? Sorry, Sleepy - I can't let this comment pass without a fnaar fnaar... Having celebrated the solstice, and sang of wrens and such like blood sacrifice, I'll be off to Midnight Mass tonight to complete the round of observances which, like the solstice, just happen. Faith (Christian, Pagan or Otherwise) is too prescriptive for a brain such as mine that thrills to a multiplicity of excitements depending on the occasion, or the season. I believe the term is pluralism, and it's not something I appear to have much of a choice about either. Remember, we can't all be right but we can all be wrong. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Sleepy Rosie Date: 24 Dec 08 - 03:54 AM Sorry K! Yes, the Drum n Bass outfit SOM. I like them. Tangentially it's of interest to me how we've misplaced the primal sacrality in such immediate things as rythm and dance - which arguably fit hand in glove with a genuinely pagan reniassance. It's one of my beliefs that such movements as Rave Culture are the instinctive secular manifestations of an impulse to communual ecstatic ceremonial experience. Not exactly a groundbreaking theory of course, lots has been written on 'shamanic trance' and drumming and dance. For me personally (and no disrespect to Wiccans), from my own brief foray into 'Pagan songs', this is where neo-Pagan religions don't really seem to grab me strongly enough. Take that 'State of Mind' track which I posted, "Sunking". IMO, that bit of completely secular D'n'B, is what I'd like to be dancing to come the Rebirth of the Sun. Preferably at Newgrange ;-) Where according to some bit of research on experiments with vibration there, which I saw on a doco, is more or less apparently a great big sound chamber - sound familiar? Carols from Kings anyone? Some really lovely photy's there Bill D by the way. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: katlaughing Date: 23 Dec 08 - 07:37 PM I should have clarified, SR, I mean the great drumming for which you provided a link would get yer blood going! Good stuff! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Sleepy Rosie Date: 23 Dec 08 - 03:51 PM Goatfell/Arran/Trainboy - You apologised. That's really great. Good work. Time to leave this thread alone now. Katlaughing - I know, I got me blud a bit hotted up today. It does do me hed in when other folk want to tell others how to live their own lives... I mean it really does! Time for some mulled wine and other snuggly things in my own home. Just so long as the fundies don't start banging on me bluddy door... ;-) Jeez I wish some fracking Pagans would start proselytising, at least then I could have a proper party!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: CapriUni Date: 23 Dec 08 - 01:57 PM Trainboy -- I, personally, feel great joy when a Christain tells me about his love of Jesus, or a Jew tells me of his love for YHWH, or a Muslim tells me of his love for Allah, because then they are including in their circle of love. It's just that when people tell me to sit down and shut up when I speak of my own love for the Earth, because somehow, my feelings and experiences don't count, and they've decided that they have sole claim to a particular date on the calender, that I get a just a teensy bit annoyed. (Besides, this thread is clearly titled for the celebration of Yule and the Solstice, which are Pagan and/or atheist observations [the solstice just happens, whether or not you believe in any supernatural entity]). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: GUEST,trainboy Date: 23 Dec 08 - 01:18 PM What happened to free speech, here's a guy using that right of free speech and yet you 'peace loving' pagans turn really nasty towards him, so much for showing love to towards your fellow human being, all because he believes in free speech. I think that you 'peace loving' pagans should look at your 'faith' and because I don't think that this guy has a problem, he just putting his true feelings across. I don't care if your pagan faith or whatever you want to call it is right no one can say what is the correct faith, but at lest he said he was sorry. and yet some of you don't the heart to accept it and then just get on with your lives.
Guests may post IF they use a consistent name. Pick one: Arran or trainboy, and keep it consistent or your posts may be deleted. - joe clone - |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: katlaughing Date: 23 Dec 08 - 01:09 PM He doesn't need to knock on every door, Arran. He started his own thread about Christmas and has stated the same things in both threads. Repetition will get him nowhere in this case. THIS thread was obviously started for people who celebrate Solstice. It is naive, incorrect, and/or obtuse, recalcitrant even, to believe/say it is a place for such negative spewing as he has done. Would you like to see a greeting card you'd sent to someone all marked up by someone who didn't celebrate the same holiday as the card you sent out did? There's something called Common Courtesy which he could have observed. There are threads for debates, but this was not intended to be one of them, as I am sure he doesn't want his Christmas thread to be. Sleepy Rosie, that'll get yer blood warmed up! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: GUEST,Arran Date: 23 Dec 08 - 12:56 PM Well I think that Goatfell has the right to be heard as everyone else, and has the right to put his points of views across, and if you wanted this to be a thread for pagans only then you should of said |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: open mike Date: 23 Dec 08 - 12:01 PM as for the three stars--those in orion's belt (or freda or freya spinning wheel) there are other celestial brights these days.. they are planets...venus, mercury and mars, and jupiter by the way, Orion's belt reaches meridian on dec. 24 venus, jupiter and the moon were forming a bright triangle around the first part of dec. saturn has been near the moon on the 18 and 19 dec. clear skies mean cold weather |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Bryn Pugh Date: 23 Dec 08 - 07:38 AM Goatfell - speak for yourself. You, of all people, to criticise those you think, or you feel, to be acting hypocritically. By what authority or right do you do so ? And do not dare, here, to quote words of your prophet. This is the first time I have knowingly "flamed" on the 'Cat, and if that means that this thread is closed, so be it. Go and observe the tenets and rituals of your faith, and leave those of us who have chosen to turn our backs on christianity, for what we feel to be a better faith, to do the same. When a pagan prevents you from observing the tenets and rituals of your faith, then you can bitch. Until then, kindly clear off this thread and stick to your true christmas one. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: goatfell Date: 23 Dec 08 - 06:53 AM At lest I can admit that I'm a hypocrite, it's these people that can't that have the problem, as they say the truth hurts doesn't it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: theleveller Date: 23 Dec 08 - 06:52 AM It's simple, really Goatfell. Only the christian religion has usurped the traditional celebration of Yule, as this demonstrates: "The Pagan celebration of Winter Solstice (also known as Yule) is one of the oldest winter celebrations in the world. Ancient people were hunters and spent most of their time outdoors. The seasons and weather played a very important part in their lives. Because of this many ancient people had a great reverence for, and even worshipped the sun. The Norsemen of Northern Europe saw the sun as a wheel that changed the seasons. It was from the word for this wheel, houl, that the word yule is thought to have come. At mid-winter the Norsemen lit bonfires, told stories and drank sweet ale. The ancient Romans also held a festival to celebrate the rebirth of the year. Saturnalia ran for seven days from the 17th of December. It was a time when the ordinary rules were turned upside down. Men dressed as women and masters dressed as servants. The festival also involved decorating houses with greenery, lighting candles, holding processions and giving presents. The Winter Solstice falls on the shortest day of the year (21st December) and was celebrated in Britain long before the arrival of Christianity. The Druids (Celtic priests) would cut the mistletoe that grew on the oak tree and give it as a blessing. Oaks were seen as sacred and the winter fruit of the mistletoe was a symbol of life in the dark winter months. It was also the Druids who began the tradition of the yule log. The Celts thought that the sun stood still for twelve days in the middle of winter and during this time a log was lit to conquer the darkness, banish evil spirits and bring luck for the coming year. Many of these customs are still followed today. They have been incorporated into the Christian and secular celebrations of Christmas." Now, as I said before....go and start your own thread, this is nothing to do with you. As always, your religion is bringing rancour, division and bitterness into a time of peace and goodwill. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: goatfell Date: 23 Dec 08 - 06:35 AM if I was a muslim or a Jew or any other person of faith, and I stood up for my rights and my views, I mean I have nothing agaist the Solstice, or the people that celebrate it, but how does that MAKE ME A HYPOCRITE |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Sleepy Rosie Date: 23 Dec 08 - 06:28 AM Might be an idea to ressurect the old Wicker Man Christmas bonfire celebrations? Spit roast puritan anyone? Or was that sposed to be the Spring Rites... Bahhh a month here or there, who's counting? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: theleveller Date: 23 Dec 08 - 06:06 AM "So have your pagan Christmases or whatever but don't sing Christian songs and don't give/take Christmas gifts because that smacks of being a hypocrite " There it goes again - bloody Christians hijacking our traditional celebrations. Was Jesus really born on 25th December? I doubt it. The hypocrisy, I think, is on your part, Goatfell - go and start your own thread, this is nothing to do with you. As always, your religion is bringing rancour, division and bitterness into a time of peace and goodwill. To Erica and Bryn - thank you for you greetings, they are much appreciated and, in the lengthening days ahead, may you enjoy peace prosperity and plenty. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Sleepy Rosie Date: 23 Dec 08 - 05:03 AM Lovely drop of Beatles Katlaughing... Sun King |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Bryn Pugh Date: 23 Dec 08 - 04:54 AM Thank you, CU - Joy, Health, Peace and Love, indeed. At slight risk of thread drift, when in Salem, Mass., last year I saw a 'car sticker' (in a shop window), which set me thinking and chinking : No war was ever fought in the name of Wicca. Wise and Blessed Be, All. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: katlaughing Date: 22 Dec 08 - 10:20 PM Beautiful, CU! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: CapriUni Date: 22 Dec 08 - 09:32 PM Religiously, I'm agnostic. Most days, these days, I'm tipping toward the atheist side of that spectrum. But, in any case, I don't have to believe in a deity to believe in "Something." I believe in something very powerful, with every breath I take in and let out: |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: bobad Date: 22 Dec 08 - 09:13 PM "Spectacular enough to make me WANT to believe in something." It speaks to me of the powers of observation, calculation and interpretation. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: katlaughing Date: 22 Dec 08 - 07:16 PM If you believe...they will come, BillD!**bg** bILL- kewl yule snap!! Skarpi...those seven seconds will sure add, won't they? Here comes the sun, indeed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Bill D Date: 22 Dec 08 - 05:53 PM The solstice at Newgrange..in Ireland Spectacular enough to make me WANT to believe in something. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: skarpi Date: 22 Dec 08 - 05:37 PM thank you capri uni .>) skarpi |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: CapriUni Date: 22 Dec 08 - 03:00 PM Thank you, Skarpi! And every new second of new light is a welcome thing. May your basking in it be a joyful thing. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: skarpi Date: 22 Dec 08 - 02:55 PM well all , yesterday was the shortest day of the yar , only three hours here in Iceland . it will be 7 seconds longer today .>) Merry Christmas all Skarpi |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: number 6 Date: 21 Dec 08 - 04:45 PM Happy Yule biLL |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Alice Date: 21 Dec 08 - 04:39 PM Here comes the sun. Yippeee!!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Jack Blandiver Date: 21 Dec 08 - 04:35 PM Thornborough Henges & Alignments |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: VirginiaTam Date: 21 Dec 08 - 04:30 PM Not as important as the chocolate yule log cake I am having right now... Ymmmmmmm |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: CapriUni Date: 21 Dec 08 - 04:25 PM Yes. Liz the Squeak mentioned about the alignment of the pyramids in another thread, the other day. It makes sense, when you think about: It's a constellation of the brightest stars in the sky, right next to the river of stars we call the "Milky Way," and, as it's over the celestial equator, it's a constellation that is visible from both the northern and southern hemispheres. So, naturally, people all over the world have looked up at that cluster of stars and said: "ooooh! That's Important!" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Jack Blandiver Date: 21 Dec 08 - 02:25 PM There's a theory that the distinctively wonky alignment of Orion's Belt inspired both the placement of the Giza pyramids in Egypt and the Thornborough Henges in Yorkshire. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: CapriUni Date: 21 Dec 08 - 02:03 PM Thank you, Troll. (And those in the Southern Hemisphere can look forward to the promise of summer harvests; for Pagans there, it's now Litha) You know, I've always liked the constellation known to most of us as "Orion," in large part because it always seems to be visible in the sky no matter how much light pollution there is (I'm now living in the suburbs, having grown up in the woods, and the Orion constellation is just about the only one I can still fully see, at night). But I've always been bothered by the Greek mythic explanation: That Orion was a mortal hunter who wanted to show he was better than the gods by hunting down and killing every wild animal on earth. So I love the constellation, but hate the "hero" it represents. Well, I recently learned that the three stars of his "Belt" was known to the Norse people (whose holiday Yule was, long ago) as "Frigg's [or Freya's] Distaff." Frigg and Freya were two heaven goddesses, who were believed to spin and weave sunlight, and Frigg was believed to have a jeweled spinning wheel (The circle of stars that is visible around the row of three, perhaps?). I also learned that if you use the three stars as a pointer to guide you to the Star called Sirius (the brightest star in the sky, near the horizon in the east, you'll see where the sun will rise, the morning after the Winter Solstice. I like this much better than the "Orion" story. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Jack Blandiver Date: 21 Dec 08 - 08:24 AM We passed Solstice point today at 12.04 GMT. Now we sufferers of SAD may at least start looking forward again; the solar year is renewed. All that remains is to get through Xmas & New Year. As I said elsewhere, it's always good to have something to look forward to: Happiness in the New Solar Year! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: goatfell Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:32 AM thank you |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Sleepy Rosie Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:27 AM "I'm sorry for being an Idiot and bumhole." Lol! Well seeing as you made me laugh out loud by saying "bumhole", everythings good again... ;-D |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: skarpi Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:22 AM The winter solstice " vetrar sól stöður " is tomorrow . HAve a great holydays all . kv Skarpi |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: goatfell Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:20 AM I give up, I now know what this thread is all about, and I'm sorry for being an Idiot and bumhole. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: GUEST,Mr Oldbugger Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:16 AM oh no Goatfell.. and now you've just reminded me.. if it aint bad enough I've got keep the telly turned down low and all the lights off in case of carol singers... theres also bound to be the annual plague of local godbotherers banging on the front door early in the mornings when i'm trying to settle down for a quiet relaxing shit.. xmas is worse than %*@#in' halloween.. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: Sleepy Rosie Date: 20 Dec 08 - 10:00 AM No-one here is telling anyone else what they *should or should not be doing*, except YOU Goatfell: "Do this, don't do that. Bla bla bla!" Yes there is only one TRUE CHRISTMAS, it's a holiday the Church established on the 25th December and it involves lots of pressies and plastic baubles and pudding (I know 'cos I've seen this Sacred Mystery in action myself) This thread is for people interested in Winter Solstice on the 21st. So please stop bossing everyone else about, and stop telling other people who you don't know from Adam what *they* can and can't do, and go and TROLL your own thread. Ta.. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: GUEST,Mr Oldbugger Date: 20 Dec 08 - 09:57 AM Goatfell, if it makes you feel any better this Xmas.. I'm an agnostic and couldn't give a monkeys for anybody's religion.. ..and if it wasn't for the mrs being so girly about all this seasonal good cheer bollox I'd be just as happy to treat it all as just any other miserable bloody day... happy @#*?in' christmas !!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Yuletide - the Solstice From: goatfell Date: 20 Dec 08 - 09:39 AM If I was a muslim or a jew or any other memeber of faith I would be going off my head at this Happy Holidays and not a word would be siad about me, but as a Christian, I've just to sit back and allow people to critasize me, and just take it lying down, I mean would would be saying these things about a muslim or a jew or anyone else for that matter no but because I'm a Chirstian reminding people wht CHRISTmas is all about I have been told to shut up, aye tell that to a muslim to shut about their faith and see where you end up, I don't mind people the way the celebrate CHRISTmas, but don't tell me what I can and can not do. GOD BLESS YOU ALL |
