BS: Gardening, 2009

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 10:59 PM

Smokers tend to kill roses. They don't like the nicotine on your hands, so that's the mystery of it for some gardeners.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Janie
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 10:43 PM

Ain't got no cukes, but the tomatoes in pots are doing well enough to convince me that I can plant a small veggie garden next year, if I can find the time, energy and $$ for materials to get the raised beds in by fall. I'm pretty sure there is enough sun, if I encroach a little on the town right-of-way, for two 3' or 4' x 10' and possibly another 3'x 6' bed running beside them but perpendicular to them in orientation.

My struggle is going to be with deciding whether to put it all in veggies, or use some of the space to plant some roses or full-sun perennials.

I love roses, maeve, though in this region they all look awful from black spot by mid-summer. I don't have the time to stay on top of the spraying needed - and that is whether or not one uses organic methods.

We bought our old bungalow in Hillsborough from the son of the folks who had built it in 1914. (actually bought it from the lady of the house, but she was in a nursing home in PA by then, so we never met her.) She and her husband were both textile mill workers and people who loved to garden. We bought it in August and moved into it in November. The gardens had been severely neglected for a number of years, and we had no idea of what was there. In the spring, several old, neglected roses began to send out sporatic blooms, and I fell in love. (and earlier, heirloom daffodil, narcissus and hyacinth began to bloom in the midst of grass and weeds, then some hardy carnations and pinks, and the stray crocus) Worked hard to restore and renew them all, but especially the roses.

My favorites were a polyanthus rose that the daughter-in-law told me the Missus had brought from Benson when the family moved here in 1914, and which sports different colors ranging from pink, to coral, to orange to red quite freely, and an old rose that was somewhat desease resistant that I dubbed the Thelma Neighbors rose after the Missus because I could not identify it.   I saw it growing in a few other yards throughout the old mill village district of Hillsborough. It propogates very easily by cutting a semi-hard cane, sticking it in the ground, and firming the soil around it. I made up a story in my head about one of the millworker ladies getting the rose for a Mother's Day or birthday gift, then passing along cuttings to friends and co-workers at the mill, Flint Fabrics (now closed.) It is a a wonderfully fragrant rose, and the color varies with temperatures from clear, pale, pink to a deeper pink with a tinge of coral. The blooms were the densely double of old garden roses, but the shape and the repeat bloom suggested a hybrid tea. It was more desease resistant than most hybrid teas, but still suffered significantly from black spot unless treated with dormant oil in winter and sprayed weekly with neem oil during summer. I propogated it and passed it on to a number of fellow gardeners who admired it over the years. About 3 weeks before I moved, one of those gardeners finally keyed it out. It is an early hybrid tea, introduced somewhere around 1925, if my memory serves me, and is called Aloha.


As I got more and more involved with gardening, I had less and less time to tend to my darlin' roses. I finally reached a point where I fertilized them well in late winter or early spring, pruned them in January, loved their glorious blooms in mid-spring before black spot defoliated them, and viewed them as trap crops for japanese beetles come June.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: maeve
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 08:52 PM

We have started Diva and Lemon Cucumbers, Bobert. It's been too cold and wet before. Other years we had good luck with one of the Marketmore strains.

Roses aren't for everyone, but I do love them, wild or cultivated. These have really been happy after last year's generous doses of manure compost, alfalfa pellets, and fish emulsion.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 08:20 PM

Oh, the guilt... I just trashed a mamouth wild rose bush with my tractor... lool...

Actually, I have the deepest respect for anyone who is willing to grow roses... We bought several from Jackson and Perkins a couple three years ago but gave them away after discovering that we really didn't have the DNA for grwing and appreciating them... So, my hat is off to you, maeve...

With the deer moving in around the house every night we are in full-speed-ahead on the next (and last) deer fence project... I pulled down some very old fence tonight with my tractor and Thursday my backhoe buddy is going to push over the last 6 "paradise tree" and some old fence posts to get ready for new fence posts which will hold the deer fence... Seems that this project is going to take a couple weeks but when it is done, we will indeed have peace from these creatures...

BTW, what kinda cukes is everyone growin'???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: maeve
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 07:46 PM

With the torrential rains from which we appear to be emerging, we'll forgo planting a second block of corn, and tuck in a few more tomatoes, beets, lettuce, kale, chard, beans, peas (snow, snap, and shelling), carrots, basil, and onions. I added the shelling peas to the perimeter of the corn block for added nitrogen and to help anchor the corn roots if we get another big summer wind.

Roses in bloom include Maiden's Blush, Dark Lady, Iceberg, an old double red nameless, William Baffin, New Dawn, Red Grootendorst, Topaz Jewel, Bonica, Fair Bianca, Sea Foam, Carefree Beauty, Schneekopf... several more here and there and some not yet in bloom.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 08:54 PM

Just sprayed molasses on the lawn to feed the worms and microbes, and the lightening started as I finished... then began a real gullywasher with hail.

We've had one of the wettest springs in a long time, finally helping to end years of drought. Our climate is arid here anyway, so drought on top of being a dry high country climate makes it pretty hard to garden.

RE: harvesting.... I hope to have some green beans before it snows this fall!!    I have about 4 leaves on the little bush green beans that have sprouted.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 08:13 PM

Notes from the Virginia Blue Ridge:

First of all, Alice, great to have you back in yer gardens... Heals lots of stuff that nuthin' else can heal... But Zone 4??? That is brutal!!! We're 6B and that is cold enough, thank you...

We are finally eating yellow squash and zucinni out of the garden... The P-Vine fried up some tonight... It was extra yummy seein' as it's been since last year since we've had it...

We have decided to "deer fence" another 2-3 acres that will include our pond field and our house and the planting around it... I realize that it will be another big project but once done there won't be much left that the sumabiches can eat... Last night they came right up to the house and mowed down several hostas... I mean, down to the ground... That was it... We finally have realized that we will have no peace until we can keep the deer away from all of our gardens...

That's it fir now...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 01:05 PM

If you've ever wondered if Bacillus thuringensis (BT) really works, I had an excellent demonstration today. I've been using it every week to ten days, as a drench over my garden crop plants and onto the ground around them. This weekend I have been watering some untreated potted plants from my next door neighbor's back yard. She toted them around to the side in front so I can get to them without having to unlock her gate. Yesterday I killed one hornworm on a hanging plant, and this morning was astonished to find five of them on the skeletal remains of one of her other pots that was resting on the ground. Four were full-sized, one was about half that. I've had hornworm problems in previous years, but was too frugal with the BT. This year I want to keep my plants going. I'm not spraying, I don't want to harm butterflies, but I do want to keep these garden bulldozers out of my solanaceae plants that they favor (tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, potatoes). These are about 15 feet away from my lush tomato plants. I'm planning to give her some of my overage--it's funny, because she's the one that turned me on to organic gardening.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 11:51 AM

That tree info is really helpful.

When the two groves of aspens were planted, the landscape designer put down a weed barrier cloth that is probably now too tight around the base of the trunks, so I need to cut that back more.

The organic amendment product on the dirt doctor site look really interesting. I've used garlic and fish emulsion on the trees before, but not vinegar, cornmeal, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 10:01 AM

Nice gentle soaking rain last night. Wonderful!

Found a toad in the dogs' pool again, but this guy was alive and well and treading water. I forgot to carry the bricks over to the new location (it's a child's wading pool the pit bull uses to cool off and they both drink out of it). I move it around the yard to keep the grass alive under it.

Picked a few more bagworms off of the juniper this morning, and I haven't finished digging out the extra dirt around the roots. Once it can breathe more easily I'll do the sick tree treatment.

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garden/view_question/id/2840/

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: maeve
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:12 AM

Welcome back to gardening, Alice. I appreciate your delight in reclaiming your gardens. I've had similar issues with more recent injuries.

Janie- Mail order; what a kind thought. I'll let your know, thanks. We are in USDA 5a, and we plant for zone 4 whenever possible. We do have the long daylight this time of year, and the short day and long darktime of the winter, though the contrast is not as extreme as it is in Scotland, say, or Alaska. We're in Midcoast Maine, and have some of the few gardens that were not washed away by the rains of the last couple of months.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 12:17 AM

My kitchen window is packed as full of ripening tomatoes as it can be, and an entire shelf in the fridge is filled with bowls of ripe fruit. Gotta blanch and freeze or can starting tomorrow. I had intended to do some today, but I had other chores that needed doing first. Jury duty on Tuesday (hopefully only one day, but who knows?) so I probably need to get this finished tomorrow.

Things are kind of collapsing under the weight of fruit. Tomatoes have toppled over in their cages all over the garden. Peppers look like they're decorated for christmas. The largest eggplant has several fruits, one almost ready to pick. When I first few them I remember watching it grow and wondering when to pick it. Now it's second nature, as is spotting and destroying pests at their first appearance, not after they've been around for a while.

Now I weed, water, and poke around looking for fruits, keeping in mind that this is a region with a wide variety of biting critters. Reaching down into plants is best done slowly.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 12:05 AM

Here's a magazine published in my town... "Zone 4 Magazine, Living in the High Country West".
http://www.zone4magazine.com/index.php

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 11:55 PM

I was injured badly from a fall in Dec. of 2006, could not use my right arm much, and then from a dislocation of my atlas from that fall, developed Trigeminal Neuraligia. Eventually someone x-rayed last year and found why I had the TN and put the atlas back in place. With all that pain, I've barely been able to handle getting through the work of my job, so yard work had to wait a few years. This is the first time in 3 years I've been able to do gardening.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 11:52 PM

Well, every year is a bit different, but this year we've had more rain and cool weather so it's late spring feeling now. Most things, except for bedding plants from the nursery, are not yet in a blooming stage let alone anywhere near harvesting. My raspberries today have both flowers and just the beginning of tiny green berries.

I'm at about 5,000 ft. above sea level in a large valley in the Rockies in western Montana.

The latitude is 45 degrees north.

The USDA hardiness zone is 4

We have summer usually in August unless July is summer and August start feeling like fall, or it's one of those years when it can snow any time. ;-)

The winter is deep snow and at least 2 weeks of below zero temps.

Because of that, we really appreciate summer.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Janie
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 11:22 PM

Alice, you may have said earlier and I have forgotten, but are you in the process of restoring and renovating a garden you installed years ago that got ahead of you as life made other demands?

Whether or not that is the case, sounds like you are doing a lot of hard work. I bet it will feel very satisfying after the bones and muscles stop hurting:>)

Not just your climate, but your ecosystem is so very different from mine, and I really enjoy reading about the work you are doing.

maeve, let me know if you get to a place where you are interested and able to do a bit of mail order of plants.

maeve and Alice, what USDA zone are you in? And to help me understand further what that means, in terms of plant growth and harvest time of things like tomatoes and snap beans, do you consider it to be mid or late spring, or early summer?

It is interesting to me to think about what it means for gardening in different places. Bobert is only about 5 hours north of me, but is at a much higher elevation. We are one zone apart. Normally he is a couple of weeks behind me, and as he has noted, is getting a late start this year because of wet weather. However, because he doesn't get the intense and long summer heat that we get here on the Piedmont, the delay doesn't mean he has missed his shot at most cool weather crops.

Maggie is significantly further south than am I, but we are closer in elevation, and both of us get intense summer heat. I'm in zone 7a, but most gardeners in this area agree that we are closer to zone 7b, and many plants that are classified as cold hardy to zone 8 can be grown here with just a little winter mulch protection. I have also grown perennials supposedly only hardy to zone 9 with heavy mulch protection. (of course, there is always the risk of a lengthy and really cold snap that will kill them off, even with protection, but we haven't had many intensely cold snaps in a number of years, and have not had a lengthy intensely cold period for 15 years. I remember that because the last one was the winter my son was born.)   

Maggie's season is a few weeks earlier than mine, but both of us are limited by long, hot summers in terms of both early and late season crops. However, she is far enough south that she gets more day length early spring and late fall, which has an effect on those early and late season cool weather crops. maeve, I think in Maine, you get significantly longer day length in summer than do Bobert, Maggie or I. Not sure about you Alice. I think you are much higher in elevation, but don't know how much further north you are.

I know we can all do succession planting, but heat and day length probably play nearly as big a role as last and first frost date. We may not have frost here until late October, but tomato production falls off sharply due to shorter days well before lower temperatures are a significant factor. I can sow kale or turnips in very late summer and get a small fall harvest, but most of the harvest from fall sowings will come the following spring. Because of late heat and high soil temperatures, it is very hard to get a fall crop of lettuce in before frost. I can get a small crop of baby salad greens, but even under cold frames, day length comes into play for successful fall and winter salad crops.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 05:09 PM

AAhhhhhh finished with the front aspen grove/nanking cherry and the flower bed beneath it. What a battle. I had to get help from my neighbor with a chainsaw to take out one of the young aspens that was riddled with borers that had been missed when the arbor guy worked there in June. I kept thinking, " I AM a Green Coalition Logger!"

I found the oregano and lemon balm... they had reseeded themsleves to new spots. I uncovered a rose, many sages (herb) and daylilies and found some columbine and daisies. Also, some cotoneaster, lily of the valley, and currant. It's been a neglected jungle in there for years, and now it is all pruned to get better light, dead stuff taken out, and thistles and invasive grasses whacked down.

Now I have only one neglected flower bed left to fix. It's long and wide, full of weeds, invasive grass, stuff I want to keep like tulips and poppies and iris and columbines mixed in with the stuff I need to clean out. It's against the front of the house, the aspen grove not quite hiding it now from the street. It needs major remediation, as it is part of the front facing landscape.

All in all, a very satisfying gardening weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 03:24 PM

I'm watering my next door neighbor's potted plants for a few days while they're out of town. One of her tomatoes had shrunk considerably overnight, and I easily found the tobacco hornworm--I've gotten to where I do a running battle with those guys every summer. I squashed this one, though I often toss them in the woods across the road. They become the sphinx moth which is a good pollinator, but kids are a real challenge.

I've decided to make more use of the BT this summer. I'm very careful where I use it, and I don't spray it, but I've used it in a drench over and around my tomatoes. Fingers crossed this will keep the hornworms out. I'm also an old hand at spotting the damage of lacebugs on my eggplants, and have removed several little clusters already. This year I am breaking off the leaves they attack and tossing them into a layer in the compost. If I miss a few with my masking tape removal method when they're aphid-sized, or don't get all of the eggs, they can grow and do more mischief. More surgery, fewer bandaids this year.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:47 PM

Getting too dark, so I had to finally stop pruning and come inside. Now a little ibuprofen for the aching back....

It has been over 3 years since I worked in that apsen grove. I did put weed mat down when I created it about 18 years ago, so at least that will help in cleaning out the grass and weeds that spread in the flower bed under the aspens. I did find all the groups of daylilies that were planted there and started to clean out the sage that had died back. Good thing it's a 3 day weekend, there's so much more to do in the yard.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:34 PM

Here's a link.

We're bringing in several pounds of tomatoes a day, so just in time for the produce preservation season I finished defrosting my big freezer. I will freeze some and can the rest.

And people who know about my garden tomatoes (my daughter and her boyfriend) sometimes drop by for BLTs. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 02:23 PM

See the thread with that title, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 02:20 PM

Green Coalition of Gay Loggers for Jesus???

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 01:41 PM

All done marching with the Green Coalition of Gay Loggers for Jesus, led the singing for God Bless America, now back home and will finish planting the rock garden. Ten plants that will fill it out nicely! The bush beans are coming up, the perennial native sweet peas are thriving. I still need to clear out my front grove of aspens and the Nanking cherry.... years of stuff grew up underneath the branches, so I need to get in there and thin out the herb sage and select the baby aspens that need to be encouraged. I think my oregano and lemon balm were crowded out under the canopy.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 01:20 PM

I spent an hour in the veggie garden this mornin' wedding and mulching the okra... Seems that we have been too buzy with the deer fence and runnimng the garden center that our usually good veggie garden habits have taken a back seat and now we are playing catch-up... Only a few more areas around the lower row of tomatoes to weeda dn mulch and we'll be caught up..

The P-Vine has decided that running this garden center is going to be a one year deal and that if she wants to run a garden center next year that we'll set up our own... Yeah, for the time she puts in there for the little compensation she's workin' for about minimum wage... Meanwhile the folks at the Co-op anin't all that "co-op"erative in helping to keep stuff watered and the manager all but refuses to do any advertising... He's a farmer and thinks like a farmer and not like a businessman... Oh well... We certainly know how to do it if we want to and I own the perfect little piece of ground for a garden center...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 12:11 PM

So tell us about Burdock?

Yesterday I took a close look at an ornamental juniper tree beside the garden. It has been looking particularly ratty, and it turns out it was covered with bag worms. Ugg. I filled about 1/3 of a bucket with the things, which were wiggling away and starting to drag their bags out of the bucket. I poured them all into one of the plastic sleeves the newspaper comes in, tied off the top, and let them cook in the sun. It's now in the trash.

Howard Garrett (the Dirt Doctor) says that when a plant is attacked like this that it is in stress and makes it a target for insects and disease. I look and found that this tree is buried too deep. Not a surprise--most of my trees are. I planted them in 2002 at the level of the dirt in the pot, maybe even a little deeper, before I started listening to Garrett on the radio and before he discovered this problem. Nurseries plant trees in a few inches of dirt in a pot and then before shipping they dump in several more inches of dirt so the plant looks more established, whatever. If you don't take that dirt off the plant can actually slowly suffocate. They clearly fail to thrive. The swell at the bottom of the tree needs to be exposed and then the tree will be much healthier. So I watered and scratched off several inches, and I'll water and scratch off some more today. BT on the plant to kill any more worms still crawling around, another pass to remove bags I missed, and some good fertilizer and the "sick tree treatment" (see Dirt Doctor). Bag worms are best removed with dormant oil application in winter, I think, but I can go a long way to making them scarce by working on the ground around it now.

Tomatoes are coming in at the rate of a couple of quarts a day. I'm going to be defrosting my big freezer today and I'm also going to be doing some canning this weekend.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 08:25 AM

I'm going to order one, fir sure...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:10 PM

The local nursery had everything small 1/2 price today!
I still had to fill out the rock garden I created next to the juniper that I pruned last month into a bonsai shape.... so I was able to load up on a lot of 4" pots of perennials for the rock garden for only $2 each.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: maeve
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:09 PM

You did well getting it at that price, Alice. Unfortunately that's the total farm stand income for June, thanks to the rain all month. I'll keep watching yard sales.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:05 PM

Maeve, I bought my Grandpa's Weeder from the tv shopping channel. It was a lot cheaper than the web site I linked to.

It's on Amazon.com for $21.59.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: maeve
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:57 PM

I like that tool, Alice. It would be good working weeds out beside tree roots. If I ever see one at a yard sale I'll snag it. Reminds me of a bulb planter I want.

We enjoyed our first lettuce of the year. We're picking from self- seeded plants; some romaine and some Jericho lettuce. We had close to three hours of sunshine today!

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:45 PM

Actually, Bobert, it is best for tap root weeds. I've
used it on tall thistles and more, pulling them out along with their tap root.

Give us a review once you've bought one and tried it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 08:24 PM

That's a purdy cool weeder, too, Alice and will get most of them... But it won't get burdock which has a major tap root which is up to 10 inches long... But I might get one of grandpa's for other weeds...

As for beets, this was not a good year for them... I planted at least 30 and we may get a dozen... That is flat out bad... But we got a bumper crop of spionich which we have now harvested and in vacuum paked bags in the freezer...

Our cucumber plant is now pumpin' them out at a reat of 3 per day, as is the yellow squash...

The P-Vine is so in love with the deer fence that we put up that she is going to make (have) me put up another 750 feet around our pond field... That will be good because of the light and all we will be able to plant that field in azaleas... We now have over a thousand of them in heeling beds, pts, etc... It would be worth it to just get them in one place where they are happy and the deer can't get to them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Alice
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 12:54 PM

Speaking of weeding tools....

I have the BEST I've ever found. Grandpa's Weeder.
http://www.garrettwade.com/grandpas-weeder/p/65P01.01/

I've replaced the handle on it once.
You just push the gripping spikes into the heart of the weed and lean the lever against the ground, the grips close and grab the weed and you lever it out of the dirt, root and all... no stooping. It's the BEST if you're trying to get the roots out.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: maeve
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:40 AM

Huzzah, gnu! You did all the work. Your success makes my day.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: gnu
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:27 AM

I planted beets on May 12. I planted beets on May 28. No beets.

I asked maeve what I should do.... could put down newspaper to control weeds and then 3 to 4" of compost. I put down 4" of compost and planted beets on Sunday, June 28 at noon.

I went to water the plot this moring. I got beets up the wazoo!

Thanks maeve!

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: maeve
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 08:30 AM

Bobert, If you're serious about finding a use for your burdock, you may be able to sell the roots (first year plants, I think) to an organic/whole foods store in your area. They are said to be tasty.

I'll aim for some better posts in the future, fellow gardeners. I'm too tired to do much now. I'm enjoying reading others' writing.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 08:21 AM

Hi folks.
I used a product called Bug Clear.

Lupins regenerating well just had a great downpour and thunder storm so the grounds had a great watering and it cleared the Air much fresher outside . good growing weather
Pierre..

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 07:40 AM

Dry here on the Virgina Blue Ridge... Been running the oscillator all day... Nice to be sitting over some monsterous cavern filled with water...

Thinking about harvesting my burdock root... I bougth the coolest weeder at Plow and Hearth... It is a shovel that is "T" shaped so that only a long skinny blade goes into the ground... That's all one needs to get Mr. Burdock root and all... Great tool!!!

Anyone need any burdock root???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Janie
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 01:44 AM

Here on the Peidmont of North Carolina we are on the cusp of high summer. It is getting dry, which always happens, even in good years, because throughout high summer nearly all rain is from hit or miss thunderstorms that quickly run off before penetrating our heavy clay soil.

A cicada, the first I have seen this season, was clinging to a window screen this morning. They, and other insects are starting ttheir imperative search for mates. Tonight is the first night I have really noted the beginning of the high summer chorus as assorted insects in the trees begin their sedcuctive "singing" to attract their mates.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Janie
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 01:02 AM

Rats. I just lost a multi-topiced post. Not sure if it was me or mudcat that was the problem.

Oh well. Won't try to replicate it, but will share what it started with, a recipe that includes stinging nettles that I particularly like. We used to fix this on a grate over a wood coals or on one of those cooking grills on posts common at picnic tables in state parks and forests. It would work fine in the oven or a dutch oven also.

My early dates with my ex were usually foraging hikes in local state forests, or weekend camping trips in the mountains. When we expected to find stinging nettles, we'd bring along a cooler with a couple of chicken breast halves in a cooler, season them with wild onion and/or wild garlic, wrap them in stinging nettle leaves, then seal them in foil wrap and cook them on the grate until tender. Add a good bottle of wine, a loaf of sourdough, and a wild greens salad, and it makes a meal fit for a queen!

PLC, keep us posted regarding how the whitefly issue develops (or hopefully does not develop) with the regrowth of your lupines. What product did you use?

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:52 PM

Horse tail is pre-historic and a great source of silica for those who need it. I never tried the sword fern but the children said it helped them? Haven't tried horsetail either though there is tons here. Avoidance and licking my wounds works for me.

One of the best uses of burdock is the exercise one gets digging it out!! It occurs to me, I could just get rid of my - boxes and boxes of - books and just google everything. Wean myself from books???

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:19 PM

There's no liquid to speak of in sword fern. The nearby plant that is supposed to help with stinging nettles (as opposed to "dry nettles" that look similar but don't sting) is Equisetum, or horse tail (also called scouring rush). A very ancient plant.

If you want a good source of nitrogen in your diet, you can eat the nettles, but you have to boil them in water, drain it, and boil again. Much like the instructions you get for cooking skunk cabbage. Personally I can't say I'm tempted to try either. (For more of this information, look up the slim book on Ethnobotany by Erna Gunther).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 08:35 PM

Asad day for my Lupins.

Hi folks
due to the Whitefly attack on my Lupins I had no choice but to cut all the Lupins off at Ground level and place the plants in the trash. I found a earth friendly Whitefly killer spray and finished off the whitefly on the base plants and flooded the soil to kill off the rest.
That was two days ago. Sucess I have not seen a single Whitefly since and my Lupins are already starting to resprout. They regenerate so quickly it amazing.I hope to have a second more sucessful batch of Lupins and flowers without Whitefly before the summer is over. Mother Nature works wonders.

Best Regards to all Pierre.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: maeve
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:52 PM

Alternative medicine uses for Burdock

Brandeis info

one more

Bobert, here are three sample links to sites that may satisfy some of you curiosity. I am not formally trained as an herbalist. Some of my best herb books note that a decoction of burdock is good for healing deep wounds, whereas comfrey is effective for skin damage.

Thanks for the jewelweed recipe, Janie.

I have plenty of the same medicinals available, but right now I am driven to clean up and recover the gardens that have been ignored due to my forced absence from garden chores.

Another week of rain in the forecast.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:51 PM

So what medicina; qualities does burdock have, maeve??? I got a bumper crop this year...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:28 PM

I believe Euell Gibbons was a proponent of eating poison ivy. I think it is in one of his books. A lecturer at the Ohio Agricultural Experiment Station (1958) suggested drinking the milk of goats grazing on poison ivy. Hey, if everyone knew these things, the drug companies would go bust. And that would be wonderful, imo.

Jewel weed is known as a preventive. It usually grows nearby and can simply be rubbed on skin after exposure to prevent or relieve effects.

Stinging nettles are monsters here in the NW. I was informed recently that a sword fern leaf rubbed on will alleviate the pain. I found just licking it, if reachable, or using spit if not, helps amazingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:53 PM

I watered the corn again with BT. Those worms keep coming back, but I'm gradually getting some stalks. They're not quite waist high yet. What is the thing about mineral oil and the corn silk or ears, Janie?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:13 AM

I figured that remark was misplaced, but I posted a response so if he/she came back they would realize we do read each post, not just gloss over them. He should do the same.

That poison ivy approach sounds too radical. I got it so bad a few years ago I had to take the steroids for weeks. I'm going to spray the sprouts coming up around the mustang grapes, and after a week or so I'll go mow over there with the weed whacker (and long pants and sleeves!)

I have cosmos in a bed that is partial shade. I've never grown them before, but the plant and leaves are coming up nicely and I think this will be a pleasant discovery. These were planted from seed. A friend in the area said they're very nice flowers in this area. Good! I also have lots of portulaca coming up in pots. They are so beautiful and so wonderfully tolerant of the heat. My beans aren't getting pollinated much so I put a pot and seeded it with portulaca nearby. Hopefully anything attracted to the flowers might then investigate the beans.

I actually left some tomatoes out there this evening that I normally would bring in. My hands were full. I'll pick them in the morning. My windowsill is full of tomatoes and I have several bowls in the fridge. I may can a few jars this weekend just to get started on that enterprise. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Janie
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 11:58 PM

Reading maeve's description from several days ago about her pink roses in combination with blues and lavenders (if I remember correctly), I found myself thinking about all the happy accidents of color and form I have stumbled upon in my gardens over the years. One spring my sister was visiting and we were looking at a large bed with "Cerise Queen" yarrow, interplanted with red opium poppies, pink, white and blue larkspur and a touch of coreopsis grandiflora. It had started out as a yarrow bed, and the rest had self-sown from other near- by beds. Or in some rash and unthinking moment I had scattered seeds while deadheading the year before. Annie commented on how stunning it all looked together. We both laughed when I agreed, adding that I wish I had thought of it. it was pure accident.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardening, 2009
From: Janie
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 11:48 PM

maeve,

are you aware that young jewelweed shoots are a very tasty edible? Preparation and taste are similar to young snap beans.

On Jewelweed and Poison Ivy

Jewelweed is a very, very effective preventative for poison ivy. (I have often wondered if the common bedding impatiens is also, but have no idea.)   Make a very strong decoction of the entire green plant- stems and leaves. Fill a large pot with the plants, cover with cold water and bring to boil. Reduce heat and simmer 30-45 minutes. Strain, squeezing as much liquid as you can out of the plants before discarding. Cool and refrigerate in a spray bottle (can also be frozen and thawed, though will begin to lose efficicacy if frozen more than a few months.) Either spray well with it before going out into the woods and weeds, reapplying every few hours, or spray and wipe down with it very thoroughly within 2 hours of exposure. It really works well, and is one of my ex's biggest sellers at the Farmer's Market. He also wholesales it to the local food coop and the local branch of Whole Foods Market.


For the brave of heart, you can also innoculate yourself from poison ivy reactions - same principal as allergy shots. But do be very careful. I In very early spring, when the leaves first emerge and are tiny, start eating one tiny leaf a day. You may get a few blisters in your mouth, but the toxin is very weak at that stage. Keep eating a leaf or two daily as the plant grows for the next month or so.   You will want to stop before the plants reach full potency.   As you continue to eat the leaf, your immunity will build. As noted before, you may get a mild reaction in your mouth at first, but this is unlikely when the leaves are just emerging and very, very small.    As you gradually increase the amount you eat (it will never be more than one or two leaves, and never full size leaves) or as the plants become more potent as they grow, stop for a few days until the rash is gone, then resume at a slightly smaller dose than what caused the rash. (Sometimes people will also get a rash around the rectum, especially if taking in too much, or increasing the dose too quickly. Do the same as for a mouth rash.)

If you are extremely allergic (i.e. can get it from smoke or wind or petting the dog,) be sure you start absolutely as soon as the first leaves peek out, and take only a tiny bite. Do not continue if you get more than a very mild reaction to those first leaves.

This is a pretty radical approach and is not without it's dangers, but my ex and my son are both pretty allergic, but are constantly working in the woods and meadows, digging sassafras or slippery elm, or wild yam roots, etc, and getting into poison ivy roots in the process, which are even more potent than the leaves. It has worked very, very well for them. Over time, the immunity builds up to the point that you need less of it and for a shorter period of time each spring. I can't remember when we started this with my son. We didn't feel comfortable trying it with him as a toddler, but I know we started him on this regime sometime between the ages of 4 1/2 and 5 1/2, and only after we knew he was pretty sensitive to poison ivy. (I rarely react to poison ivy - only when I really wallow in thick patches of it when the dew is heavy or it is wet from rain, or if I have been doing a lot of digging and had contact with the roots. We waited to see if Sum Yung Sun had inherited my relative immunity.)

My ex learned about this approach from an old herb doctor he studied with in WV, "Catfish" Grey. He tried it out of desparation. Some of you know Mr Ex is an herbalist and wildcrafter. You can't do that and not get into poison ivy, and he was quite sensitive to it. One year, early on after he started wildcrafting, he was digging sassafras roots in wet weather and got into a large mass of poison ivy roots. He got it so badly that it entered his bloodstream and he nearly lost a leg. He knew he had to do something, so the following spring started eating it. It worked. He still uses jewelweed after coming in from working in places where it is thick, or if he has been digging where he is likely to have come in contact with roots.

I miss my old garden roses, maeve. I bet your roses are lovely.