Nuclear Subs Collide

Subject: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: bubblyrat
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 02:31 PM

The recent news that two nuclear submarines (SSN,or possibly SSBN), one British ,viz HMS Vanguard, the other French ( Le Triomphant) have collided and damaged each other,without having a CLUE that the other boat was anywhere in the vicinity, throws up some interesting scenarios and possibilities. On the one hand, it may prove the superiority of modern Western anti-detection methodology,whilst at the same time indicating that the Taleban only have to get their hands on a relatively unsophisticated ex-Chinese SSN in order to wreak HAVOC upon Western defences. Please comment !!

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Skivee
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 02:40 PM

Speaking of the wrong side of the road, shouldn't this thread be submerged below the BS line?

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 02:42 PM

If you switch on your active sonar, you can find other things, but you tell everyone else where you are. You should get a clue of anything close by using passive sonar (what used to be called hydrophones) but only if it's making a noise.

These boats are ballistic missile submarines, and they are very much in the business of not being detected. Nice to know it works!

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 02:53 PM

...so the British drive on the left, and the French drive on the right....and -- hmmmm

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: bubblyrat
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 02:58 PM

Of course !! How stupid of me !!Vive le difference !!

to the GUEST whose posts have been deleted: you know the rules. Follow them and your posts won't be deleted. Continue to insist on not following them and EVERY post of yours will be deleted. Not so hard now, is it?

---

Current policy can be found here

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 03:31 PM

A worrisome thought occurs to me: Anyone else wonder if we'll hear in the near future that "Oops, sorry. There was indeed some radioactive material released..."?

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 04:19 PM

It does make you wonder why they collided in such a large mass of water. The british sub has been taken back to the base where my brother is stationed (he doesn't work on subs)

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Wesley S
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 04:29 PM

Where did this happen? And can we expect mutated fish-monsters to crawl up from the briney depths? Isn't this how Godzilla got his start?

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 04:56 PM

Pretty scary but evidently no critical damage this time around. Shouldn't they be required to post their course in advance?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 05:01 PM

A Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine - "Shouldn't they be required to post their course in advance?" - Absolutely priceless.

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: frogprince
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 05:06 PM

space satellite collides with another; one submarine collides with another; the odds in either case sound outrageous. How long before a submarine collides with a communications satellite?

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Hovering Bob
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 05:12 PM

Only to be expected, the French ignore us and we ignore them!

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 05:16 PM

To paraphrase an old Senior Service saying...

There are more satellites in the sea than there are submarines in the sky....

LTS

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 05:32 PM

"On the one hand, it may prove the superiority of modern Western anti-detection methodology,whilst at the same time indicating that the Taleban only have to get their hands on a relatively unsophisticated ex-Chinese SSN in order to wreak HAVOC upon Western defences. Please comment !!" - bubblyrat

As one of Lt. Miller's own I would have thought you'd have known better. Now I'm pretty certain that what the Pashtu tribesmen from the south-west of Afghanistan and along Pakistan's NWFTA don't know about driving nuclear subs isn't worth knowing, but "a relatively unsophisticated ex-Chinese SSN in order to wreak HAVOC upon Western defences."???? They didn't call the Nuclear Red "Boats" Russian or Chinese "Coffee-Grinders" for nothing, you literally could hear them coming for miles.

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 06:56 PM

Maybe there was a Crazy Ivan involved. . .

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 08:02 PM

I have my own idea about what happened. Two bored crews, penned up in the middle of the briny, decide to play a game of chicken for fun and carry it a bit too far...

Not knowing their positions? Bull!

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 09:16 PM

More likely, perhaps, given English and French history is that any game of chicken had a fairly grim undertone.

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 09:58 PM

That's what happens when boats go sailing around under water! They belong on the top of the ocean like God intended, with sails to catch the wind. These modern nine-day-wonders sailing around without visible means of propulsion will see the end of good seamanship, you mark my words!

Subject: with thanks to William Schwenk Gilbert
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 10:10 PM

I shipped, d'ye see, in a Revenue sloop,
And, off Cape Finistere,
A merchantman we see,
A Frenchman,going free,
So we made for the bold Mounseer,
D'ye see?
We made for the bold Mounseer.

But she proved to be a Frigate-and she up with her ports,
And fires with a thirty- two!
It come uncommon near,
But we answer'd with a cheer,
Which paralysed the Parley-voo,
D'ye see?
Which paralysed the Parley-voo!

Then our capt'n he up and he says, says he,
"That chap we need not fear, We can take her, if we like,
She is sar-tin for to strike.
For she's only a darned Mounseer.
D'ye see?
She's on - ly a darned Mounseer!
But to fight a French fal-lal — it's like hit -tin' of a gal, —
It's a luh - ber-ly thing for to do;
For we, with all our faults, Why we're
stur-dy Brit-ish salts, While she's only a Parley-voo,
D'ye see?
She's only a Parley voo!"


So we up with our helm, and we scuds before the breeze
As we gives a compassionating cheer;
Froggee answers with a shout
As he sees us go about,
Which was grateful of the poor Mounseer,
D'ye see?
Which was grateful of the poor Mounseer!
And I'll wager in their joy they kissed each other's cheek,
(Which is what them furriners do),
And they blessed their lucky stars
We were hardy British tars,
Who had pi ty on a poor Par- ley - voo
D'y'see?
Who had pity on a poor Parley - voo!

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Feb 09 - 11:10 PM

Tut tut! I say old chap....

Sacre bleu, moi bad!

Quite all right, old chap.

===
or....
===

Have you any Grey Poupon?

~S~

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Newport Boy
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 06:29 AM

Steve Bell's cartoon in today's Guardian gives another explanation.

Phil

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 09:26 AM

Nice one, Phil!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Rog Peek
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 11:20 AM

They have all the oceans of the world to paddle in, on board there must be the very cutting edge technology in navigation equipment, and they manage to bump into each other in the middle of the Atlantic. It really does beggar belief!

Rog

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 12:47 PM

I am reminded of that rather rude joke about Catwoman disporting herself lewdly on a skyscraper roof, and Superman taking advantage to fly low into her narrow channel - much to the surprise of the Invisible Man...

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 01:23 PM

So if one of these subs runs up against a mine, the first they'll know about it is when it detonates, because they cruise around with their sonar switched off.

How very reassuring...

A bit like having police cars drive around at night with no headlights, so that no one sees them coming.

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: DMcG
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 01:34 PM

They have all the oceans of the world to paddle in ... and they manage to bump into each other in the middle of the Atlantic

Not perhaps quite as surprising as at first sight. I don't know about underwater navigation, but in aerial planning it is often done based on notable landmarks (watermarks???). This makes the chances of two people picking the same route much more likely than a completely free choice.

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Feb 09 - 02:24 PM

Not long ago a US submarine ran right into a sub-surface mountain with some damage, and a few years ago one surfaced under a Japanese fishing boat.

It ain't no vision quest!

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 01:25 AM

"So if one of these subs runs up against a mine, the first they'll know about it is when it detonates, because they cruise around with their sonar switched off."

One of those subs might run against a mine and be sunk, true. However if any of those subs run around transmitting on active sonar they will all be sunk - equally true.

Passive sonars on both boats would most definitely have been on and manned, but these boats are very, very quiet. They say that surface weather conditions were rough which possibly created eough background noise to mask the submarines from each other.

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Penny S.
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 05:54 AM

Given that they were likely to be using similar depths because of sound transmission, and may have been using valleys in the Mid Atlantic Ridge - guesswork purely, but it isn't featureless down there, I suppose it may be more likely. The French apparently thought they had been brushed by a loose container - now that is worrying.

Twas in the broad Atlantic, the weather it was rough,
Two submarines crept slowly on, but were not quite slow enough..

With audience participation in the form of repeated pings - not appropriate in the real conditions, but hey...

Penny

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 08:46 AM

The US and the Soviets used to play games, seeing how close they could come to one another before unleashing a barrage of pings. I've heard (from folks who were there) that there were several "collisions", but the news was never released.

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 09 - 11:11 AM

In a world where poparazzi and celebrities collide, where satillites hit head on, and nuclear subs armed to the teeth collide, a new wind is about to blow!
Worlds in collision will blow you away.
See Earth at the relative size of a Ford Focus hit head on with Nebulon, a dark matter planet the size of an Escalade.
The carnage is complete...for the lucky ones.
rated PG.

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: Penny S.
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 07:41 AM

A whole ocean for manoeuv'ring, from Greenland to the Horn,
Now two captains are a wishing that they never had been born.

Penny

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: GUEST,Chris B (
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:29 AM

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: GUEST,LTS pretending to work
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 08:46 AM

Rog, Rog, have you never been travelling in a far off land, wandering about in splendid solitude down a deserted beach, only to be greeted by your next door neighbour or your aunty Jean?

Happens to me all the time.

LTS

Subject: RE: Nuclear Subs Collide
From: G-Force
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 09:48 AM

So, why don't they have windows?