Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk

Subject: Help with the use of Digital Tradition Folk Player
From: Lin & Tony, Chatham, England
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 05:16 PM

We have the DT folk song data base and we also have the DT Folk song player but how do we use them together? The samples you get with the player work ok but from then on we are stuck. HELP! we are not great computer buffs

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 08:38 PM

Hi, Lin and Tony - I take it you got the Digital Tradition Folksong Player from MusicEase. Am I right? I'm downloading the program at this very moment, and I'll fool around with it and let you know. I'm a little disappointed with the $29.95 price tag, but it does sound like a good program.
I think you probably have to unzip the Digital Tradition tunes before you play them. If that's the case, be careful to put them all in a separate directory/folder so they don't get mixed with other files. If you unzipped just any old place, you'd have thousands of files scattered about. Not a pretty sight.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: MusicEase Digital Tradition Folksong Player
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 11:25 PM

Hi, again - well, I tried the Digital Tradition Folksong Player. Seems like a darn good program to me. It installed itself nicely, and it's easy to use.
You do have to have the Digital Tradition tunes file (tune.zip) unzipped. What I would do is make a digitrad tunes subdirectory in the directory where the DT tune player is located. Copy the tune.zip file into that subdirectory, and unzip it into the umpteen jillion song files Dick has typed for us (leave the original of the tune.zip file where it was, for use with the database).
Then you open the player, and go to the file menu and open a file. It produces a nifty-looking piece of sheet music, and plays the tune quite nicely. It also will enter chords into the music if you ask it to; or it will play the song with an accompaniment. Can't say I liked the accompaniment on most songs I tried, although it did a nice job on "After the Ball." Let's say, maybe, that the accompaniment is not quite what you'd expect for a folk song. The "Black Fly Song" with a samba beat didn't quite inspire me....
The main problem I see is that the program taxes my system to its limits. I have a Pentium 133 with 32 MB of memory, and the program takes forever to display a song and then longer to get around to playing it. I'll betcha it would work just fine with a Pentium 266 with 64 MB - but I'm trying to hold off and not buy another computer until Windows 2000 comes around.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jun 99 - 11:42 PM

Personally, I try not to unzip just any old place...I mean Joe, you gotta' know there's laws against that kind of thing.

Actually Joe, I do love to read your computerese. I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, but I'm glad you live here in the village. We really couldn't get by without you, really!!!

catspaw

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 12:15 AM

Aw, Catspaw, I knew you'd catch me on that line. I thought of changing it, but I couldn't. I got a kick out of your response, even though I knew it was coming.

But don't you understand this stuff I type? I try really hard to make it understandable. What I really want to do is get people to pay my airfare to travel to exotic places to set up the database for them, but I haven't found anybody yet who's interested.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 12:25 AM

I mentioned in another thread that I had tried it..and not ONLY does it hog memory, it doesn't give it back when you give up/close the program..it shows lots of promise, but we sure needed more info like Joe just provided..and a bit more for some...like...uh...well... where does one get the tune.zip file? This is DOS?..(I keep asking this because I do not like DOS and mess with it as little as possible)..In other words, am I dealing with the ENTIRE DT as a download?...12-14,000,000 bytes or whatever..in order to get the tune.zip file?..( I have several disks I got from Dick..is tune.zip on them?)

Boy, do we need a manual for all this! An organized, clear, complete manual that starts at the beginning, as there is always someone new coming along who has no clue.

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 12:52 AM

Bill, Bill, Bill....
Yessir, we're talking about downloading the ENTIRE DT, which Dick, in his benevolence, has compressed into a tiny 5.8 MB download that expands to about 10 MB on your hard drive.
You download the file to a separate directory/folder that you have created for that download, and then you unzip that file and click on the go.bat file. Your computer will begin to rumble and whir, and in no time at all, you will have your very own copy of the database, which you run by clicking on the folksong.bat batch file.
You, being a Win95 kinda guy, should probably drag that folksong.bat file onto your Start button so you can get at it without having to look at DOS.
Now, to use the MusicEase player, you have to unzip the tune.zip file that comes with the database. When you unzip files, you should have at least some idea what you're doing. I learned the hard way.... [actually, what I did was click on one of the .exe files that come with the database. since it had no perameters specified, it unzipped all of the tune files for me and made a big mess] Don't click on anything but go.bat and folksong.bat.
Gee, I went out to CompUSA today to buy some memory, since the ad said it was 32 MB for $29.95 and you could get two for the price of one. Somehow, the final tab came to $205. I returned the stuff before I left the store, so I'm still at 32 MB.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 03:20 AM

Joe, you're doing a great job. I bet that Catspaw understands only too well, but is sensitive to being seen as usurping your leadership in all things Mudcat. BTW I can't offer you an airfare but would gladly offer you accomodation in sunny Brisbane anytime you please - you might have to check out our unzipping laws first.

Downloading the DT does appear formidable, but following on from your comments I believe that there are a few simple things to make life easier.

(1) Make the TUNES.ZIP file available for download as a single item. It's about 1.53Megs at the moment, and at the slow rate we're generating new tunes it probably won't grow too much in the near future.

(2) I suspect that some Mudcatters don't have the software to unzip, or are put off because of this. There are probably a few solutions to overcome this, including a self extracting file.

(3) If TUNES.___ becomes available as a separate download then other simple options evolve:

(a) The simple DOS tune player (qabcplay???) should be available as a simple download, and can be used by the humblest of PC's, and no need for a sound card.

(b) Other cheap programs such as ABCMUS can be used (by more people more easily) to import the DT tunes and then play and modify them in many ways.

BTW I applaud the availability of the DT Player, and thanks to Dick for providing it through Music Ease. The SongWright 'format' of housing tune and lyrics together is clearly important. I hope that we don't have to wait too many more years before the MIDI (or whatever) standard is produced to ensure that this integration can move on.

Regards
John

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 10:51 AM

HI- Joe, as always, is right on. I'm trying to get time to work out an interface that will allow you to print the tunes directly from the lyrics screen; until then, you have several options: a) if you've downloaded the entire database, the filename of the tune shows up with the lyrics after the words play.exe. Use Winzip or PKUnzip to extract the individual SongWright file, and use the DTPlayer on that.

b) If you're working off the web, you can download the individual MIDI file, and DTPlayer will deal with that.

c) We'll make either entire tune.zip file available for downloading. You can then unzip any single file you wish as in (a)

d)You can waity until we come up with a neat interface.

BTW, there's no charge on the shareware version of DTPlayer; the other versions, for which charges are (IMHO) reasonable, have other capabilities.

Patience. Patience. And we DO appreciate your comments.

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 12:19 PM

As the resident cyber-klutz, I think I'll offer Offer bed and board and friendly song-swapping in exchange for a side-trip as he is going either to or home from the Getaway in October. I doubt that I'll ever understand all that zip-file stuff. Failing that pleasant possibility, I plan to corner Greenhaus when I see him later in the summer.

Joe: That means your side-trip could be labor-free! Only the bed/board/song-swapping would remain on the agenda.

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 02:07 PM

The memory-hogging is a real problem with the MusicEase player, but I have to say that the printed music looks absolutely beautiful. A lot of that is due to the top-quality work Dick did when he entered the tune in the first place. If we can resolve the memory problem, I think we'll have a major advancement here.
Sandy, I'm heading up the coast to Boston after the FSGW Getaway, and I may just take you up on your invitation. Thank you very much.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jun 99 - 04:49 PM

*been reading*..Joe, Joe, Joe..*grin*...you have not been reading my plaintive threads over the months..I am NOT a Win95 kinda guy..yet...I am the guy with the gerbils and the steam backup running Win3.1..(maybe that will change soon)..I have a TOTAL of 640mg on my HD...and seldom more that 15-25 mgs free on any partition at any one time..so I guess I will NOT be installing the DOS version right now..(reading the comments of John & Dick, I will probably just tinker a bit and wait..both for more ***POWER** and for newer program configurations and availability...but I DO appreciate all the answers from Joe, Dick & John, and I have a bit better grasp of what it requires now...

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Linda & Tony, Chatham, Kent, England
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 10:07 AM

A great thanks to Joe after going around in circles for most of that afternoon getting really frustrated. We are pleased to let you know after your instructions it was up and running within half an hour. We owe you a pint. A good Newcastle Brown.

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:25 PM

I'll take you up on that pint some day, Linda and tony. Now, how's the program working for you. Do you expoerience the same memory problems I've had, or is it working well for you? What are the vital statistics of your computer (speed and RAM)??
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help with the use of Ditgital Tradition Folk
From: Lin & Tony, Chatham, England
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 01:17 PM

Joe, The computer does work slowly we have 133M and 40 M RAM, we are just pleased to be able to get the music, we are amazed at the amount we can access. A big thanks to Dick Greenhuas. We hope to contribute to it in the future. Any way bye for now.

Lin & Tony