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BS: Controlling Diabetes
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Subject: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 11:46 AM I have a loved one who has type 2 diabetes and can't afford all of the tests and ongoing care needed to bring it under control, although even when they were under a doctor's care, they got a lot of conflicting information and did not succeed in getting their blood sugar under control. The biggest problem they face is all of the conflicting information that is out there about what kind of diet is the best for lowering blood sugar levels. This is further exacerbated by the fact that they spend about half the year on the road for work and it's very difficult to have appropriate foods handy while on the road working 12 to 18 hour days. Some of the conflicting information encountered so far: It's ok to eat carbs, including refined carbs, if the portions are kept small. It's not ok to eat refined carbs, but complex carbs are ok. It's not ok to eat any high carb foods at all, including complex carbs, if the body is resistant to second phase insulin production. Low carb diets are dangerous. Perspectives on what works based on peoples' own experiences or experiences of people they are close to would be appreciated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: gnu Date: 31 Aug 09 - 11:59 AM Health Cnada website has good info, CC. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: TheSnail Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:07 PM This seems to be a very sensible site - http://www.mendosa.com/index.html. I am alarmed by "can't afford all of the tests and ongoing care needed to bring it under control". The cost, both financial and personal, of not getting it under control is unsupportable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Wesley S Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:11 PM I've lost 45 pounds and as a result I've stopped using insulin earlier this year. Most of it was just common sense. Look at what's on your plate. Is it something you need - or something you want? It's simple - fewer calories in - and more calories "out" - via exersize. And sorry - but I reject the notion that it's difficult to lose weight on the road. It's easy to pop into a grocery store and buy inexpensive fruit and water bottles instead of pulling through the drive-thru for fries and a soft drink. If you're sitting next to a big bag of apples and bananas you are less likely to pull into Whataburger. But that's just my experience. Feel free to PM if you have any questions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Wesley S Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:13 PM And to echo snail - which is cheaper? The tests you can't afford now or the hospital visit you can't afford later? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: wysiwyg Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:13 PM Think of the conflicting "rules" you listed above as the menu of what has worked for different people with different physiologies and lifestyles, under the treatment philosophies of different professionals, whose treatment plans have had other items to go with the rules that seem so conflicting. They just have different philosophies of approaching the management of the disease. What has worked best for folks I know is to learn as much as possible about their own bodies, and to carry snacky items to fill in the gaps between what is conveniently available on the go and what they know they need to have. That includes learning how to use fast-food crap menu items in combination with what can easily be carried. I have not yet met a fast-food menu that did not have at least one item that could serve, with some modification, as the base item in a good meal on the go. There are a million ways to convert a dollar burger into part of a decent meal. Hardi and I split the McD dollar burger, peeling it open so we each get half the bun and one of the two patties. With the McD skim milk (alone or in iced coffee) and the McD apple-dippers, there is the fruit, the carb and the protein. The sugary caramel sauce for the apples goes into the emergency bin for those days when he's caught far from food, on the run, having a LOW blood-sugar crash. Preventing the lows is as important as preventing the highs. Hardi carries peanut butter on wholegrain/oat bread, and raisins, to use as needed. There is often a bag of apples in his car. Sometimes jerky. Not as eat-all-the-time items, but as "gotta have something NOW" items. If you search up an old post of mine (use Gastric Bypass as the search term), you will see a good post about the mini-meals we adopted on the advice of the best-managed, busiest diabetic we know. There will only be a very short list of posts to look into, to find it. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: wysiwyg Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:22 PM PS, free meters abound (drug co. giveaways), and people who upgrade often have still-good test strips to give away for the meter they also want to give away. FreeCycle is a good place to seek all these. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:32 PM One of the best things for treating a hypo is a 200ml pure fruit juice drink (Orange, whatever - the kind that comes in a little 'box' with a plastic 'straw' that you push through a foil-sealed hole in the top. It contains the right quantity of sugar, and it's the right kind. Follow up with a snack, such as a banana or a couple of biscuits. Eat the next meal as scheduled. Source - my dietician at Queens Medical Centre, Nottingham (consultation FOC thanks to the good ole NHS). On the subject of meals - Diabetes UK's website has a lot of good information and a plethora of publications for the Diabetic. I can recommend 'Type 2 Diabetes' by Drs Charles Fox & Anne Kilvert (ISBN 978-1-85959-176-5) and 'The Diabetes Guide' by Anne Claydon, Diana Markham and Graham Toms (ISBN 0-7535-1004-9). http://www.diabetes.org.uk/ I was horrified to hear CaroleC's comment about her relative being unable to afford the tests and treatment necessary for bringing their Type 2 under control. It should be free - there are many, many sufferers, it's life-threatening and, left untreated, the complications are horrific. I hope your relative gets tested and treated soon Carole, it's absolutely essential. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:32 PM Is fruit ok, then? Isn't it considered high carb food? This is a person who has limited body awareness, so just trying to learn about their body may not work for them. And when they were under a doctor's care, they got so frustrated with all of the conflicting information, they just sort of gave up. One of the problems with learning about their body is getting test strips to monitor their blood sugar, because of not having access to medical care. This person saw a doctor a couple of months ago and paid out of pocket, but is extremely dissatisfied with the care they got, which amounted to no more than a one month prescription for metformin and instructions to return in a month, and they're very skeptical that a return visit would produce any results. They are on the road for the next few months, so a doctor appointment isn't possible during that time anyway, but in the meantime it would still be good to try to get the blood sugar under control. They don't really have the time for fast food much of the time, and they have a choice between what can be carried in the car without refrigeration and what is available in gas station convenience stores, which, believe it or not, is often even less healthy than fast food restaurants. Recommendations for foods that can be carried in the car without refrigeration that don't need preparation would be appreciated. Right now, they're pretty much just eating nuts and turky jerky for snacks. They've got cans of low salt soup (high blood pressure is also a problem), but most soups have either rice, noodles, or potatoes in them and are not particularly low carb. The whole grain bread is something they definitely like to eat, but again, they're wondering about whether or not even whole grain bread is ok for them to eat. The other problem is exercise. They don't have time to get the kind of sustained exercise (20 to 40 minutes every other day is one recommended amount I saw recently) while on the road. They are on the go continually from about 5:00 in the morning until about 11:00 at night and most of that time it is absolutely necessary to be sitting down. Which is why it's important to find out what its ok to eat and not ok to eat. Thanks for the links and recommended sources of info. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:39 PM Crossposted with the last two posts before my last one. They have a meter but are almost out of test strips. They aren't able to test while on the road, and will have to wait until they're done being on the road for a few weeks, which isn't going to be for a couple of months. Again, I'm seeing recommendations for taking in juice and fruits. Are these ok? They seem like they're very high in carbs with a high glycemic load. That was another thing that was confusing. There are people recommending only having foods that have a low glycemic load, but another site said that even foods with a low glycemic load (complex carbs, essentially) can cause a spike a couple of hours after eating if the body is also insulin resistant during the secondary insulin phase. More conflicting advice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Wesley S Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:45 PM "They don't have time to get the kind of sustained exercise (20 to 40 minutes every other day is one recommended" Sorry but I reject that notion too. People make time for what is nessessary to maintain their health - once they decide it's in their best interests. It sounds like the biggest health hurtle this person needs to overcome is their own inner voices. Anybody can go for a walk or a dip in a motel pool. Even if it means getting up 30 minutes earlier. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:48 PM Getting some sleep is absolutely imperative, since most of their work day is spent driving. Getting killed in a car accident is not preferable to having diabetes. As it is, they only get 4 to 6 hours of sleep a night while on the road. Sacrificing any more sleep is not really an option. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:48 PM Carole, in the UK Type-2 sufferers don't routinely test their blood-glucose levels - that's the province of Type-1 sufferers whose pancreas produces no insulin, so they have to constantly monitor their blood-glucose - so we Type-2 people don't get issued with testing kits. I bought my own, but only because, as an accountant, I'm a natural checker and statistician! I buy my own strips (around a dollar per strip! Eek!) and check my blood once per week, first thing in the morning before eating or drinking. My doctor and the Practice Nurse strongly disapprove because, whatever the reading, there's no additional treatment to be given - just diet control and take the pills as instructed. With Type-2, the pancreas still produces insulin, albeit in reduced quantities, so diet or medication (usually pills) are used to boost that production. Testing is generally done periodically (like 6-monthly) via the HBa1c blood-test, the sample for which is taken at the doctor's surgery. The HBa1c shows 'average' glucose levels over a long period. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: maire-aine Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:51 PM Hi. I posted these comments in an previous thread a while ago. It describes the diet I used to control carbs. Personal discipline is the most important component, but that has to come from within the individual. You can supply information and clarify ambiguity, but you cannot provide the motivation your friend needs. m |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:51 PM And, Carole, they need to go to a doctor. Whatever the cost, it's cheaper than death. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:55 PM In the US it's necessary to have a prescription from a doctor to get test strips, which is why that's a problem right now. But what we are seeing online is that testing will help them understand which foods are causing elevated blood sugar levels and will help them figure out what they can eat and can't eat, although when they were testing regularly, they never did get it all figured out. There is the added problem of this person not trusting the medical profession in the US. They are used to a single payer health care system where doctors don't screw the patients over in order to make more money, and they don't trust that the doctor is necessarily acting in the patient's best interests rather than the doctor's financial interests. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:55 PM Exercise is important because it helps control cholesterol-levels, and heart-disease is one of the things that diabetes can, and frequently does, cause. I walk to work 5 days a week, half-an-hour's walking morning and night at a rate fast enough to increase my heart-rate and make me feel pretty warm, but not so fast as to make me out-of-breath. As recommended by the medics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Wesley S Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:56 PM And if possible - it might be time to look for a new job that doesn't endanger their health. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:03 PM Carole, are you sure that test strips are prescription-only? Sounds very odd - what harm can they do to anyone that would make them prescription-only? Might be worth checking. And do take a look at the Diabetes UK website I mentioned earlier. They have stuff on there about balancing diet. No offence, but I think you and your relative are getting down into far too much nit-picking detail. It's not necessary to check your glucose levels to work out what you can eat and drink - there are straightforward guidelines in existence as to what constitutes a good diet for a Type-2 Diabetic, and going down into fine detail isn't necessary. Type-1 is a different matter, though, and I wonder if your relative is doing what I did at first - panicking and thinking like a Type-1 sufferer? They're both Diabetes, but they're not identical, either in form or in treatment. Just a thought. I've PM'd you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:07 PM Finding a different job would be lovely, but the search has not produced results so far. The way the work day looks is this: out of bed and down to the complimentary hotel breakfast where there are usually no low carb foods available. In the car for periods ranging from a few minutes to a few hours. Out of the car and into the convenience store, and about three to five minutes walking around the premises. Back into the car for anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours, and repeat from about 6 in the morning until anywhere from 9 to 11 at night. At the hotel, usually anywhere from one to three hours of work is necessary on the computer. Sometimes there is about 10 to 15 minutes of walking around the hotel (also work related) before working on the computer in the evenings. Anything less than this amount of work means even less money for paying doctors. This is the bind they find themself in. And again everyone, thanks for the links to resources. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:07 PM Thanks to poster just before my last post. I will respond to PM. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Michael Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:21 PM Hi Carole, I am Type 2 in UK, a member of Diabetes UK and have an excellent Practice Nurse and a good Diabetes Clinic at the local hospital (hurrah for the NHS).The dietary advice, in a very simplified form, is get a GI list and eat foods from the lower end as much as possible, get SOME form of exercise and if necessary, lose weight. So far that's doing me fine,so well infact that my next 6 month hospital check is in 12 months! It does require a bit of effort, but then life is worth it. Cheers Mike |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:21 PM Ok, thanks for the suggestion that it's not necessary to have a prescription to get test strips. I just called Walmart and they said it's not necessary. It's just very expensive without a prescription, but they can be had without seeing a doctor, so that's good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:22 PM Thanks, last poster before my last. That's good to know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Rapparee Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:35 PM Test strips are NOT a prescription item -- you can buy them over the counter by asking. The control solution is not a prescription item. The meter is not a prescription item. I know -- I'm Type II and I've bought test strips OTC when I've been on the road and found I hadn't brought extras. There are a ton of websites that will provide goon, solid info. The Mayo Clinic site, or the Amer. Diabetes Association (or Foundation), PubMed.... If the person involved is a veteran, check out the VA. Or a free clinic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:41 PM Ok, thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Aug 09 - 02:04 PM Good post Rap. I thought there would be good resources in the USA. Carol, I've responded to your PM. Peace to all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: mg Date: 31 Aug 09 - 02:41 PM Don't eat fruit juices. You can do pretty well at a McDonald's...better than a gas station. Take with you: peanuts, almonds, macademia nuts if you don't eat too many. String cheese. There is ice in any hotel so take a cooler. Get some turkey at Safeway and put in cooler. McDonald's...side of eggs and a sausage biscuit. Throw out the biscuit and eat the sausage. Supplement with some celary sticks or whatever. COuld have a salad for one meal..chicken. Hamburger..throw out at least 1/2 of the bun. Chicken mcnuggets not too bad. Get plenty of protein and fat and green vegetables. Have small amounts of fruits and berries. No juice. Read Dr. Rob or Robert THompson of Swedish Hosptial in Seattle. I have metabolic syndrome bad and to lose weight I have to eat essentially 0 carbs..good bad whatever you call them. Or maybe 20 to 40 per day. Count carbs rigorously. He talks about glycemic shock, not just an index or a load, but a shock. No white flour except in hamburger buns and throw 1/2 away. If he can afford a hotel he can afford a certain amount of food. Carry a few greenish apples, bluberries, etc. Never eat fruit by itself. If eating more than 100 carbs a day, cut to 100 immediately. THen start cutting more and more, white flour and potatoes first. Have a bit of brown rice and non instant oats if you feel you will die without carbs. Eat a small amount of dark chocolate. Don't be afraid of butter, lard or coconut oil. Eat lots of green vegetables. Keep snap peas, celery, broccoli etc. in a cooler and supplement any fast food meals. You really need to test. And need to walk and walk some more. Do these hotels have pools or exercise rooms? \ Don't get all paranoid about doctors. Most want to help you but they are terribly ignorant on this subject. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:06 PM Pretty much the opposite of medical advice given by professionals in the UK, mg. Here, we're warned off fats, especially saturated fats - NO McDonalds, burgers, sausage, cheese (especially 'plastic' processed cheese like Cheesestrings, or cheese slices like those used in cheeseburgers), butter, lard - all very, very bad (raise cholesterol levels, bad for causing weight-gain and high blood-pressure which goes arm-in-arm with T2 Diabetes). Encouraged to use vegetable oils like sunflower or olive oil in cooking. Carbohydrates from cereals are strongly recommended - oats (porridge esp. good), pasta, wholegrain breads, potatoes in moderation - all good. Sweetened breakfast cereals (like coco-pops) - very bad. Fruit and vegetables encouraged. Pulses very much encouraged. Salt and sugar - very limited use of these is recommended. Processed foods (burgers, processed cheeses, ready-meals, canned and packet foodsstuffs) can be very, very high in salt and/or sugar, and should be avoided. Home-prepared meals made from fresh, unadulterated ingredients are the way to go, if at all possible. It doesn't hurt to slip into fast food occasionally, but not as a way of life. It's a case of balance, Carol, balanced healthy meals with a wide range of natural, low-fat, low, sugar, low-GI ingredients - go to the resources that Rap, myself and others have recommended. And try to raise the funds to GO TO A DOCTOR. I have to vehemently disagree with mg about this. Diabetes, and the complications which can accompany it, kills. It killed my Gran (T2), after taking her leg in an amputation made necessary by T2-Diabetes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:15 PM This is why my loved one and I are so confused. Although I do appreciate everyone sharing their experiences with what they have been told is best. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: LilyFestre Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:27 PM Hi Carol, Diabetes is a fickle beast and requires adjustments for each individual. I have Type II Diabetes or maybe I should say I had it. I'm not sure if you are ever *cured* of it. For me, going to a whole foods diet with extremely limited amounts of refined foods helped me to lose almost 100 pounds. I had been taking 80 units of insulin twice a day and after about 40 pounds were lost, I found myself having too many lows, indicating there was too much insulin going into my body. In the end, I now require no insulin, meds or such careful monitoring of my sugar intake (although it's small just due to the way I now eat). Whole foods are easy enough to eat and have along in a snack bag for those days on the road. For emergencies, I also carry (still do) a few packs of white sugar (the kind that you get with coffee in a restaurant) which can be dissolved in water or if need be, taken right from the package. Like the other posters indicated, glucose testing strips (and any other testing supplies) do not require a prescription. You are absolutely right that they are expensive that way but if your friend is skeptical about what the Dr.'s have to say, it might be worth the investment just so they can see first hand what sends their blood sugars through the roof. They would also be able to see first hand how exercise can help bring the glucose levels down. I never had time for exercise either. Yeah. Bad call. However, it is something each person has to come to understand on their own. I found that coffee (regular) dropped my sugar levels hard and fast...good to know when I found myself with an unexplained sugar high...also helped explain lows. Good luck to you and your friend. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: DonMeixner Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:25 PM Carol, I didn't get my diabetes type 2 under control until I found a Doctor who was diabetic. Don His advice: What ever you eat now, eat less. What ever alcohol you drink now, drink less. How ever far you walk now, walk more. Go to bed 1/2 hour earlier. He said Doctors give you all these impossible in the real world ultimatums. Do what you can do, then after awhile, do more. The result is the same if you do it 8 months instead of 4. Good luck |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 06:01 PM Thanks, guys. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 31 Aug 09 - 06:56 PM Eat nothing but air Drink nothing but water Walk all day Work with available medications. Smaller portions Alcohol is not entirely bad. Main point there is that it lowers blood sugar ( I used whiskey and diet ginger ale to lower mine however I fell over before it went down far enough) If you are on medication which is lowering your sugar drinking will lower it too far not good. So if you drink check sugar frequently and add food or sweet juice mixers accordingly. Eventually if you are in controled mode you can predict your sugar level and that makes testing less frequent. It is often dangerous to know that you can eat more when your sugar is controled. I tended to eat more when I knew medicaitons were working but then of course weight gain. Exercise is good but it requires a lot of walking to bring sugar levels down walking is better for fat levels and weight loss. A difficult path tedious but working with doctor and medication helps. The main problem is if you have food and drink as an important aspect of your cultural world. Dying for ones culture. Well....tempting. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:27 PM Alcohol lowers blood sugar? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: kendall Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:34 PM I was diagnosed borderline diabetic. What works for me is diet and exercise. I stay right away from all forms of refined sugar, and I limit intake of any sugar. I bought an exercise bike and I ride it. I find that watching tv, reading or even playing the banjo helps to relieve the boredom. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: LilyFestre Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:43 PM Carol, YES! I know it sounds crazy but alcohol DOES lower your blood sugar levels. Many people mistakenly assume a diabetic is drunk which causes staggering, slurred speech, etc.....but really what they are seeing is a sugar LOW. There are lots of stories about people who have died because of this....loved ones thinking they just had too much to drink when in fact the alcohol has dropped their sugar level dangerously low. I've always been told it's ok to have a drink or two but that if I feel I MUST have more, to always make sure I have something to eat with it. Just another paradox of diabetes. I thought it would raise the glucose levels too. Wrong. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:04 PM Does alcohol in any way aggravate diabetes, or is it neutral with regard to its effects on diabetes (aside from the problem of weight gain)? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: maire-aine Date: 31 Aug 09 - 11:25 PM It depends on what kind of alcohol you're drinking. If it's beer, there are carbs and that means sugar. Same with wine, altho the sugar content varies more. If you're drinking straight distilled liquor, then there's no sugar, unless you mix it with something sweet. There are websites that will list the nutrition information, including calories and carbs, for just about anything. m |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 31 Aug 09 - 11:35 PM The person this thread is about is going to be very happy about that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Barry Finn Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:49 AM Wesley S "And sorry - but I reject the notion that it's difficult to lose weight on the road. It's easy to pop into a grocery store and buy inexpensive fruit and water bottles instead of pulling through the drive-thru for fries and a soft drink. If you're sitting next to a big bag of apples and bananas you are less likely to pull into Whataburger." Wesley, who ever said bananas were good for diabetics?? WRONG! Carol, fruits in moderation & in balance is good, an abundance of fruits alone will turn to sugar & the sugar blood count will skyrocket & peak. You want to stop the peaks & drops & that's why you test to get an idea of how to moniter you food intake & how that effects you blood count. Example, Breakfast- I do 3 carbs which comes from if balanced, 1 carb from starch (say 2 slices of light bread or 1/2 an english muffin), 1 carb from fruit (maybe 1/4 cup of dried fruit or a small banana) & 1 carb from a milk product or byproduct (maybe 2/3cup of low-fat yogurt). Now I can add to that 1 protein (say 1 egg or 1 cup raw veggies) along with that I should have a little fat (maybe 1 slice of bacon) & then some "free foods". Lunch is the same 3 carb serving; balanced=starch, fruit, milk. Again with maybe 3oz of protein (that number will change depending on the person), 1 fat serving 1 veggie serving & again some "free foods" Supper; maybe a 6" ear of corn (your starch), 1 1/4cup of water melon (your fruit), 1cup of low fat milk (your milk). Along with you protein; 5oz of lean pork or, beef or fish, 2 servings of fat (2 tbsp of salad dressing) plus a large salad & again some "free foods" 3 squares a day!!!! now you need the snacks inbetween maels. For me I try to target between 17-20 carbohydrates. The balance is important. Example. Starch may turn to ssugar with an hour, protein within 2 hours & will cause a peak in sugar levels but balancing the meal spreads the sugar spike out over a period of 3 hrs. The oil/fat (good fat is always a preference, meaning non animal fats) will slow down the fruit changing to sugar) SO your friend needds to learn about what foods fall into what groups, what amout he can eat safely (consult an expert) & learn to read the food lables when buying foods. He won't be able to do this without consulting a doctor (for finding out his blood levels & labs) & a nutri/diet expert to work in cojunction with his primary health care phys. Once he has a handle of all this along with keeping his levels even & down to where they should be 90-100 then he can check his levels not so often but he needs to know where his levels are now, he could be a walking time bomb, find out if he needs meds & what kind (oral or injection) & get in some kind of exercise, exercise with diet = sleep is most very important, the combo is what will keep him alive in the long run. If he can't manage it, it's his tough shit, he'll pay eventually. Doesn't matter if he can't find the time or he's working all month long, if he wants to live long he'd better start finding the time to do what he has to do Barry, who's trying to find his way too. I never in my life had to worry about foods & exercise. I work heavy labor all my life & kept in great shape, eat what I wanted & got more exercise than I needed. Having a transplant & the meds that came with it caused my type 2 diabetes. It's a whole new & strange world for me too but we live & learn. Good luck with your friend |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:02 AM As has been pointed out, glucose monitors and test strips do not require a prescription in the US. It has not been made clear that having, or not having, a prescription does not affect the price of these items. Having insurance is what matters. It is true that most US insurers will not pay anything if the items are obtained without a prescription, but usually will pay varying amounts if they are prescribed. It is usual for a prescription to be valid and "refillable" for one year, so ONE visit to a physician to get a prescription, once per year, should not be an onerous burden. In many parts of the US, retail (store-front) pharmacies will usually fill prescriptions for one month at a time, but if the prescribing physician writes it properly one can sometimes get a 90 day "fill." There are "chain pharmacies" with whom you can fill a prescription and any other store in that chain can e-transfer it to fill the same Rx for you anywhere in the US. (Walmart and Walgreen are a couple in my area.) Most mail order pharmacies customarily offer 90 day refills. If you have insurance (the main reason to get a prescription, really) your insurer quite probably has a deal with a mail-order pharmacy that will give you 90 day quantities. (Some doctors might write the Rx to "test 5 times daily" and tell you test twice, to make a 30 day supply last a little longer, but I won't say who's done it for us.) It is quite common for "newly diagnosed" Type II diabetics to feel that they must keep constant track of variations in their glucose levels, so they feel that they need "lots of test strips." Mainstream advice is that most Type II diabetics should NOT CHECK more than once daily, with the recommended time being about a half hour after waking, before eating, since the "fasting level" (after sleeping for a normal night) is most representative of how well one's body is responding to diet, exercise, and other "behavio(u)rs" that might affect control. It is fairly common for the docs to recommend checks a half hour after each meal for newly diagnosed persons; but this is mainly to assess how wide the excursions in levels are. Once this baseline is established, a doctor might neglect to tell you to cut back to "once daily," or to another lesser frequency, but likely would agree if asked. Once a stable record has been established, many Type II diabetics can get by with readings once or twice per week, if they are consistently done at the same time relative to sleep and meals each time, and if they have made needed changes in diet, exercise, and sleep and the condition has been stable. You do need the advice of a professional, often an endocrinologist, most especially if your condition has not stabilized. You should follow instructions from your advisor for your specific case. Alcohol has a rather special significance for diabetics, in that it is a sugar of different molecular weight, and it is not affected by insulin. Attempting to control the transport of "sugars" while ingesting "sugars" that are immune to the control agent is a recipe for disaster. Alcohol may give aberrant glucose level readings in testing, and may affect both the natural insulin and the effectiveness of "insulin enhancers" like Glyburide, Metformin, etc. Using alcohol, in any amounts and of any kind, can significantly interfere with stabilizing the diabetic, and may confuse the SH*T out of one's physician, even if you openly provide information concerning your use. A healthy diet, and especially one that facilitates weight loss when needed, really is all that most Type II diabetics need worry too much about. Especially in early treatment, more frequent smaller meals may help limit the "postprandial excursions" in glucose levels, which is generally helpful. Practiced for a while, many people find they like "frequent little snacks" to the exclusion of big meals as a way of life. Exercise and appropriate sleep are also important. Weight loss is generally recommended for most diabetics, when possible. A few persons may be discovered in "critical Type II" condition, and may require very strict diet and lifestyle modifications; but for most newly diagnosed Type IIs it's more a "time to start treating this before it gets to the serious effects" sort of thing. It is important that the severity of each case be understood before launching into panic, and unfortunately many professionals are not good at offering "risk level assessment" opinions. It is important that each diabetic learns to live with his/her own specific response to the illness. The anecdotal experience of others may be of little value, if your case isn't just like theirs - and it probably isn't. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:40 AM Good advice from John there. In the UK, testing by T2 patients is not advised - the periodic HBa1c blood-test by the doctor is used to monitor long-term average levels - and we are not issued with a testing kit. The wisdom has been that, provided the patient is able to recognise the onset of a hypo, and knows how to treat it, short-term spikes aren't a major issue - provided that the HBa1c results show a good average (around 6 mmol). However, Diabetes UK seem now to be pushing for doctors to advise once-a-day checking and I'm expecting (nay, hoping) that it will become the practice in the not-too-distant future, when we should then be issued with free testing kits and have access to free supplies of strips. Worth noting that, in the UK, over-60's get free prescription drugs and medical equipment anyway, and all diabetics get free eye-tests (for spectacles) and free annual Retinopathy checks. I personally have good HBa1c readings. In addition, I bought my own testing kit and I buy the strips (about $50 for 50 strips - not cheap!). I check once a week, early morning before eating or drinking, and my readings are invariable between 5.5 mmol and 7.5 mmol, so I must be doing something right! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:42 AM InvariablY!! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:49 AM And I agree that many newly-diagnosed T2 patients have a tendency to go overboard and think like a T1 patient - wanting to know at all times how their blood glucose is doing and panicking if it's a tad high. I know I certainly did. Time and experience in managing T2 teaches that it's not necessary to constantly monitor your glucose, and you become very good at managing your diet in a sensible way, limiting the 'bad' elements and using the 'good' food-types in a sensible way. It takes time and a little will-power, but it's very do-able. It's a lifestyle-changing condition but, approached sensibly and intelligently, it's not Armageddon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 01 Sep 09 - 05:38 AM Apologies for 'going on' a bit but here's a question:- I noted someone earlier claiming to have been treating T2 with insulin shots (if I understood correctly). Is this true and, if so, is it commonplace in the USA? It's something I've not heard of here - if dietary adjustments alone don't control blood-glucose, and because a T2 patient's pancreas is still producing **some** insulin, we're given drugs such as Metformin or, in my case because of suspected liver-damage, Gliclazide which 'encourage' the pancreas to produce more insulin itself, so insulin introduced artificially isn't necessary. Insulin is used as a treatment for T1, where the pancreas has stopped producing insulin completely. Anyone got the definitive answer? I'm intrigued. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 01 Sep 09 - 10:28 AM Yes, I misspoke when I suggested that a prescription would make the strips less expensive. I was just remembering that when this person first got the strips they have now (with a prescription), they had insurance and the strips didn't cost anywhere near what they would cost now that they don't have insurance. This person was actually diagnosed with T2 several years ago, back when they had insurance. They never received the kind of care from their primary doctor that people are describing in this thread and they were never referred to any other care givers like dietitians back then. They had their blood sugar levels fairly well under control through the weight loss and metformin, but after they lost their insurance and no longer had regular access to a doctor, they lost track of the whole process. They recently went to a free health screening and found that their blood sugar level was back to being too high again and went to one doctor's office where they were seen only by a PA, who did nothing except prescribe metformin and a blood pressure medicine for one month and who wanted to order a lot of tests and told them to come back in a month. The blood pressure medicine never worked, and they weren't on the metformin long enough to see any improvement. They didn't agree to having all of the tests because they are convinced that the doctor is trying to rip them off. The last time they checked their blood sugar, it was still high, but only a small amount compared to the reading at the health screening. They've probably been walking around with fairly high blood sugar for a few years now, and unfortunately, medical attention is going to have to wait for a couple more months. In the meantime, they are following the advice of the people in this thread and in PMs, and it seems to be helping. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Wesley S Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:32 AM How high is high? I've heard that between 100 and 150 is "normal". When my diabetes was discovered my count was around 380 to 420. Any idea what your friends recent count numbers have been like? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:22 PM The count was somewhere around 400 at the time of the free screening, and around 240 or thereabouts (shortly after eating) a couple of days ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: JohnInKansas Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:50 PM It should be noted that US and UK practice is to express the sugar levels in different units. The commonly used US unit is mg/dL (milligrams per deciliter) and in those units the common guideline is that fasting level should be at 100 or below. A fasting level of 140 was, a few years back, the usual level at which many doctors recommended serious efforts to get lower, but recommendations regarding the level at which treatment should be begun has been decreasing and most docs would now suggest diet changes, weight loss, and often one of the milder "facilitator" drugs like metformin for fasting levels above 120. The glucometers commonly used in the US rarely will "register" levels above about 450 or 500, and readings this high probably are not really accurate. At the other end, most US glucometers will not register, and/or are inaccurate below about 40 or so. Most people are unconscious, or nearly so, at levels below about 45, but especially in Type I diabetics, and in Type IIs using insulin, some may become "acclimated" to transient lower levels and may see lower numbers. Anything below about 50 probably requires immediate action to bring the level back up, and until individual tolerance is known professional - emergency - assistance may be needed. One person of my acquaintance can usually "self treat" at levels as low as 40, but may need assistance at 36. About 35 or below is when we call "911" if there isn't an IMMEDIATE response. This is a person with unstable control and acclimated to episodes of very low glucose levels, and "normal diabetics" might go to the morgue rather than to the hospital at these levels. For Type II, US doctors rely mostly on the "average" shown by lab tests, but again different units are generally used and the critical value is called the "A1C" level. It's listed on lab reports as a "%" but the reports don't say what's measured. Values between 4.7 to 6.4 are listed as "good" or "normal." For fasting glucose levels, a range of 70 to 100 mg/dL is shown on the reports as "normal." Most physicians seem not to be too concerned if non-fasting levels are around 180 - 200 in Type II patients with otherwise good control, but at the high end (or above) some might suggest a brief period of readings over time following a meal to see whether the level declines normally. Note that these comments are based on a dozen years of consultation with "pretty good" medical advisors to our family. They might help someone know what to discuss, and what questions to ask of their own medical consultants; but should not be considered "authoritative" by anyone. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Rumncoke Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:04 PM Consider doing Atkins - not the media information type Atkins but the one where you buy the book and read it. Eating pounds of fresh vegetables every day is part of it, NOT perpetual fry ups and processed meats. On the Atkins list I am on, on Yahoo groups, there are several people who no longer need drugs to control their dabetes, others who are controling their blood sugar levels with fasting readings in the normal ranges. Humans never used to eat as much sugar, grain, carbohydrate in general as the standard supermarket diet provides. It is possibly why there is so much diabetes - we are simply not able to cope with all the carbs. Anne Croucher |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: GUEST,Kendall Date: 01 Sep 09 - 02:21 PM So, it's ok to drink whiskey as long as you dont add something sweet.I drink Glen Fiddich or Glen Morange. Wouldn't think of adding anything sweet! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: maire-aine Date: 01 Sep 09 - 02:41 PM As always, talk with your doctor or health care professional. The alcohol may interact with medications. I'm partial to Glen Morange myself m |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: DonMeixner Date: 01 Sep 09 - 02:53 PM Same here Kendall, I have some Isla and a 1/2 a bottle of Paddy's. At the rate I'm drinking them I couldn't raise my blood sugar if I wanted to. Don |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: mg Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:55 PM Read up on Dr. Rob Thompson of Seattle...now his advice is for metabolic syndrome, not too awful type 2 diabetes...borderline, not too high. But a level of 400 is a very serious situation. I never said don't see a doctor and I wouldn't say that. I will say that very many are very ignorant and can not see what is before their eyes, which if a person eats too many carbs, good, bad or indifferent, (carbs with calories..not vegetables with few sugars or starches) some of them will get overweight, which is a symptom of a diabetic process, not a risk factor as is commonly stated. It is not a cause of diabetes, it is part of the symtomatology of diabetes. If you are overweight consider that you are in the process of diabetes...and you might not be diagnosed for some time till you hit a magic number. Get your insulin tested. Never ever let any doctor or anyone tell you that if you are diabetic you don't produce much insulin. You don't know if you don't test. Read up on metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance and see the connections between insulin levels, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. Hint..some people could eat fat all day long and not get these problems and put them on a few carbs and wham they are diabetic with comorbidities. And I do mean a few. So you have to do your own research, if you are mildly elevated you have some time to research and experiment and test frequently with strips. It does not matter what Great Britain recommends or does not. You need to do this. You need to compare your blood sugar readings to your insulin level because that will tell you how damaged you are. You will get this if you are genetically disposed, if you eat too many carbs, good bad etc., if you don't exercise it off, if you have too much stress and other factors. You won't get it if you are vigorous and what you eat conforms to your metabolic type, which in some regards depends on whether your ancestors were subjected to famines or not. 400 is very high. Camp out for a few nights if you have to and save up for a doctor visit. Cut out white flour and don't let anyone tell you you need it. Likewise juice, soda of any sort, trans fats. Go easy on fruits until this level is down way down. Don't be afraid of fats..they stabilize blood sugar. How much anyone needs of anything is very individual, but no one needs coke, white bread, doughnuts, etc.etc. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: maire-aine Date: 01 Sep 09 - 07:22 PM Somebody mentioned earlier keeping single-serving packs of nuts, which is a good idea. Also, take along a can or 2 of low-salt V8 or tomato juice-- better than orange juice for breakfast-- along with your Egg McMuffin (egg & Canadian bacon). A McDonald's bacon-ranch salad with GRILLED chicken (not fried) is a good, filling choice. m |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Mingulay Date: 01 Sep 09 - 08:17 PM Backwoodsman - you are misguided about T2 diabetes and no insulin. I am T2 and have to inject twice a day with about 60+ units in total. Also, Blood Glucose Monitors are freely available ( I got mine from the Diabeticare Centre at my local hospital) and test strips are available on prescription, again free as diabetics in the UK do not have to pay prescription charges. I agree that healthy eating and excercise are important components in control but this is often difficult when having to live on benefits and being disabled. Trust me, I am that diabetic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Joe Offer Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:42 AM Please note that anonymous Guest posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted. If you insist on posting without a consistent name, that's your problem. Gargoyle, this includes you. You know the rules. If it's in the non-music section and the "from" box is blank, the message gets deleted. Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:42 AM Fortunately this person did quite a lot of walking during July and August for work (walking around gas station parking lots for extended periods of time each day - different gig than the ones he's doing now). Hopefully that helped some and bought him some time until he can see a doctor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:44 AM My last post addressed points made in the deleted post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: GUEST Date: 02 Sep 09 - 04:53 AM Found it CarolC It is sitting in the Mudcat cache can. QUESTION : Carol - your "friend" might very well ask, "Why walking? - O f all exercises available. why is walking always...most recommended for blood- sugar control?" Answer: Diabetes is an insiduous diseas...it compromises many parts of the body. One of those...is...the veinous system. (The return of blood flow to the heart) Each step taken while walking (as compared to swimming or rowing) contracts the calf-muscles (gastrocnemius and solius) and each contraction...in each leg....acts as secondary "heart muscle" propelling the blood back to the center of the body. Poor blood circulation in the lower extremities leads to a plethora of problems...(varicose veins, plantar warts, fungus, yeast, gangreen) and good blood circulation helps in prevention. Exercise helps all parts of even a healthy person's body...even the current thread on Sciatia... (the cure for THAT is easy...but it should be in that thread....and will anger doctors and chiropractors and lawyers) Walking. Imagine each step....squeezing blood upwards Your friend will become a daily practitioner....if not....take them to a local dialysis unit...and count the number of toes on the patients and ask "how many of you have diabetes?" OK, so this post is from Gargoyle, who is reluctant to sign his name tonight. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 02 Sep 09 - 06:17 AM "Backwoodsman - you are misguided about T2 diabetes and no insulin. I am T2 and have to inject twice a day with about 60+ units in total." Thanks Mingulay, I didn't know that - mea culpa! :-) And apologies to all for speaking out of turn on the thread about that point. "Also, Blood Glucose Monitors are freely available ( I got mine from the Diabeticare Centre at my local hospital) and test strips are available on prescription, again free as diabetics in the UK do not have to pay prescription charges." Not so, Mingulay. It may be true within your local HA area, it is true in my sister's area in the south of England, but it's far from universal - in my area, frequent testing is not considered necessary, and kits are not issued routinely, nor are strips prescribed, for T2 patients. It's different of course in the case of T1 patients (which I'd guess you're close to being?). I bought my own kit and strips because I'm happier being able to do checks myself, not just relying on 6-monthly HBa1c tests, but I limit myself to a weekly test. My doctor and the practice nurse strongly disapprove, and have expressed their disapproval very vocally, but it's my life! Diabetes UK are, I believ, pushing for T2 patients to have self-checking kit made freely available by all HAs. Here's hoping. Good health. BWM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 10:02 AM They told me by phone today that they've been sticking to the low carb foods and they feel much better now than they used to feel. Yay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: LilyFestre Date: 02 Sep 09 - 10:52 AM YAY!!! That's just an added bonus!!!! It's amazing how out of tune we are with our own bodies until something goes wrong and we are forced to pay attention. As we work to improve our health, the attention falls to just how much better we feel...it's an amazing thing! Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Wesley S Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:20 AM Good news - Thanks |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:41 AM One thought that may help continue to it all out for your friend is that there seem to be several subgroups of T2. The first diagnosis is, is one diabetic and if so is that person T1 or T2. But after that, for T2s, there is a lot of additional fine-tuning according to the many CAUSES and resulting physiologies of T2, and each one seems to have a particular management approach. And then, from there, each person's unique lifestyle impacts how that management approach can and will be applied. A lot of patients stoip learning at the T1/T2 point and just follow instructions. Pateints who want to know how it all works, and know their bodies from the inside, tinker and end up teachin gtheir docs what med school can;t teach. === Most of the office visits, after diagnosis, are with the less-expensinve nurse-practitioner and/or dietician. It IS possible to just start (creatively) with the non-MD side of the practice's team for help monitoring and adjusting a self-designed management approach or an approach started with an MD in another practice. I don't recommend it, and any given practice may be more or less cooperative, but it's a thought. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:22 PM We were talking about doctors on the phone today. I'm definitely making a nuisance of myself by talking about it. But they expressed an interest in trying to get their readings consistently in the normal range instead of seeing a doctor. I said that if they could get their readings consistently under control, I would shut up about the doctor. We'll see how it goes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: LilyFestre Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:28 PM Hey Carol, I know that you are well intentioned and concerned about your friend but sometimes what people need (including me) is just a teeny, tiny amount of space to digest what has been diagnosed and time to think about it. Learning to eat to manage your sugars takes a little bit of time and fussing.....it's a readjustment and they'll get it. Please don't think I'm telling you to NOT talk about it...but if you are constantly after them about it...it might serve to just make someone unhappy. Stress, by the way, can make your glucose levels rise too. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: mg Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:49 PM I think the above is true if the person has a blood sugar say of 150 or so..higher than normal but not immediately emergent. The person in question had a blood sugar of 400. I would tend to think that time was of the essence in this case, and of course that medical attention was essential. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:52 PM They've been living with the diagnosis for about seven years. They've had a lot of time to get used to it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: LilyFestre Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:17 PM I must have missed that part. And they are just NOW looking for information that will help them deal? Or they don't have an understanding of the disease? Wow. Can they sit down with a friend who has diabetes and lay it all out in the open about what they don't understand? Eating on the run isn't all that hard when you know what raises your sugars. Even with 12 hour days. Since being on the road is part of it, I'd say the key is to PLAN PLAN PLAN...make a menu, shop for it and keep stuff in the hotel room. Eating out isn't THAT difficult for someone with diabetes. It's all about the choices. For me, whole foods (read unprocessed foods) helped me to lose a bunch of weight and got my diabetes WAY under control going from 2 shots of 80 units per day to NOTHING. No shots. No meds. NOTHING. Anyway, 7 years into and not having a working understanding is scary. High blood sugars do SO MUCH damage to your body. Wishing your friend all the best. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: LilyFestre Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:20 PM Let me just add that I can see that you are trying to have that conversation with them to help but honestly, if you can find someone nearby that has Type II diabetes who has it regulated...a face to face conversation with someone who has been there might be a bit more helpful. They know what the highs and lows are like and all the accompanying crap that goes along with it feel like. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:40 PM Unfortunately there is no one in this person's life that they are aware of who has type 2 diabetes. And this person has a constitution like an ox, so it takes a lot more to make them feel the effects of health problems than it does for other people, which I think partially accounts for their ability to ignore the effects of their diabetes. And some people just seem to think they are immune from any consequences arising from their food choices, even when a doctor tells them there's a problem - if they don't feel it themself, they don't really internalize that knowledge. Right now they're eating a low carb (low glycemic load) diet. They have a selection of nuts, raw vegetables, and turkey jerky and nuggets that they're munching on throughout the day. There are refrigerators in the hotel rooms to put the veggies in at night. They say they're feeling much better than they have felt in the past, so I see that as a very good sign. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:45 PM Also canned fish - forgot to mention that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Rumncoke Date: 02 Sep 09 - 01:52 PM There are people on the Atkins-a-way-of-life list on Yahoo groups who are controlling their diabetes, reducing the need for medication - perhaps it might help if your family member joined and just read the messages. There is a lot of information there about eating away from home. It is rather worrying that this is 7 years in - doctors here in the UK would be finding themselves under scrutiny for neglecting an untreated patient within a year of diagnosis. When we emptied my mother in laws house earlier this year there were lots of pots of test strips and maybe six testers - I tested my blood sugar levels a few times out of interest and then salvaged the coin cell batteries and threw them lot away. I am assuming that this is happening in the US. I am really surprised that people there are not demanding a proper health service rather than the disgraceful system they are living under. Anne Croucher |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 02:11 PM I found out last night that they have about thirty or forty test strips left from their prescription, and it sounds like they would rather pay for more strips rather than go to the doctor. So when they get back they'll start testing again to see if they've got things under control. It's definitely a shameful thing that we don't value life enough in this country to make sure that everyone has access to good medical care. This person and I are both doing what we can to try to make it happen. Unfortunately, even if the proposed health care reform gets implemented in this country, it won't help those who currently don't have insurance until sometime in 2013 at the earliest. I'm not happy about that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: mg Date: 02 Sep 09 - 02:46 PM True..and this person also is starting to take responsibility for his own care...I wouldn't wait for him to return but mail the strips and machine to him right away. If we get this diabetes epidemic..which is realted to heart disease etc..under control, cost of health care goes way down. And we have to absolutely take responsibility for our own health management. Unfortunately much advice given is harmful so we also have to educate ourselves and test test test. There is no getting around testing, because otherwise you are at the mercy of misinformation. Don't take my word for anything, test test test. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: LilyFestre Date: 02 Sep 09 - 03:44 PM If you test, test, test please be sure to use a new lancet each time. It's not visible to the naked eye but the ends become less sharp which creates more pain with each test and increases the chances of infection. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: maire-aine Date: 02 Sep 09 - 05:15 PM Whatever the reason your friend has for not seeing a doctor regularly, could it be that it is not entirely financial? Was your friend avoiding the doctor, even while covered by insurance? Regardless, is there a diabetes association office in the area? Sometimes they have (or know of) a low-cost program, sometimes associated with hospitals or clinics. Maybe your county health department has a practitioner that your friend can contact. m |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 05:48 PM They used to get much more regular care when they had insurance and when they lived in a country with a universal, single payer health care system. It's definitely more financial than anything else. Unfortunately, while the local health department used to sponsor a program that provided treatment and counseling for people with diabetes, when I called the number, it was no longer in service. I called the local health department information number and the only thing they were able to tell me about was a support group that meets once a month (that won't be for another three weeks). I'll google "diabetes association" and see what comes up though. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: mg Date: 02 Sep 09 - 05:50 PM I would urge people who come across meters and strips that are not too old..perhaps someone has passed away or upgraded their set..to not throw them away but offer on Freecycle or something. TOo many people can't afford them and strips are worth $1 each. Take out lancet of course and wipe down meter with alcohol. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Sep 09 - 06:43 PM Numbers from expired strips are meaningless. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 02 Sep 09 - 06:48 PM So much for the strips they already have, then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: freda underhill Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:19 AM I have type 2 Diabetes, and receive fantastic free health care here in Australia. This includes testing, 3 monthly check ups, dietician, monitoring by the Diabetes clinic at the local hospital, and subsidised medicine and testing strips. I would advise cutting down on alcohol, limiting to one day a week and two drinks only. I've also stopped drinking fruit juice and cordials - substituted with water and herbal teas. I try and have carbs in a meal only once a day + vegies and lean protein the other 2 meals. Porridge is a good filler which reduces cholesterol and is low GI. GOING FOR A WALK EVERY DAY is crucial. crucial. to maintaining health and reducing risks. and if he has something like a biscuit or cake, he has to walk it off afterwards. wish yr friend good luck from me carol! freda |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Rumncoke Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:42 AM Now I am feeling really guilty as I must have dumped several hundred (in date) strips, and the machines, the lancets, the lancet jabbers, solutions - they were provided free so I just assumed that anyone who needed to test would be provided with them. Anne Croucher |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:01 AM Blood sugar of 400?
Soon the LEAST of your friend's concerns will be diabetes.
Carol - Since YOU know this person. Sell some of your possessions and come to their immediate aide.
Do not wait for Obmma or their momma. The obligation for action is clearly and ethically in your court.
Now go out and do the right thing.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: nutty Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:45 AM Blood sugar of 400? I'm not sure what this reading is intended to mean except that in the UK anyone with a reading that high would be dead. (Should it be 40.0 which would be dangerously high with the possibility of kidney and liver damage or 4.00 which would be a normal pre food reading.) My meter reads up to 30.0 after that it just signifies that blood sugar is high. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: LilyFestre Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:46 AM Carol, Was that 400 reading a normal reading for them or perhaps just a spike? It's definitely high but if they had been out having cake or indulging in an ice cream sundae or something equally sweet, I can see how such a reading could happen. Not to worry terribly but to take note of (and to mention to the Dr.). This is NOT true, however, if normal readings are consistently high....as I'm sure you know...and really does need to be addressed ASAP. Some might even say with a trip to the ER. I once received a bunch of brand new syringes, strips, lancets and even insulin from a family who lost their diabetic family member. Later we found out that they had had hospice care and it's highly unusual for hospice to allow any type of medication in the house (that belonged to the deceased). Orders are for it to all be thrown away. At the time, I was uninsured and really, REALLY appreciated the extra help. Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 03 Sep 09 - 11:22 AM Nutty, the US uses a different measurin system to the one we use in the UK (look back in the thread and read the posts by John in Kansas). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 03 Sep 09 - 12:38 PM The 400 was after a big meal that was probably very high in carbs (it was a few months ago, and I don't remember exactly what was eaten). I don't know what their fasting level is because so far I have not been able to persuade them to take a reading at the appropriate time. They have agreed to do so when they get back from being on the road, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: GUEST,hg Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:29 PM Carol, I've dealt with my mom's diabetes for years now. 240 is way too high even after eating. Four hundred is dangerous. He probably needs metformin, high blood pressure meds, daily testing, possibly a second med such as starlix, and a very controlled diet. Your sweety needs a job with health insurance! Or, he may be eligible for social security disability based on his diabetes. Apply and then if he gets awarded it, he will eventually be eligible for medicare. He can make a good deal of money on SSD nowadays without any penalty. This is an emergency situation! A month's worth of strips is about $28 without health care coverage and it is worth it to monitor blood sugar. The silent damage from consistently high bs levels is the killer, such as organs, eyes, and such. Meds, monitoring, and diet is the treatment of choice. It is nothing to fool with so make him do it |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: nutty Date: 03 Sep 09 - 04:44 PM I would be interested to know if the USA has a programme similar to this DESMOND programme which is gaining popularity in the UK |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 03 Sep 09 - 05:27 PM I just checked out the SSD for people with diabetes. It would probably cost more in doctor bills to get the proper diagnosis (it requires two of the following - neuropathy, retinopathy, or acidosis that happens, on average, no less than once every two months, which must be documented by blood tests) than it would to just get started with some medications, testing supplies, and a good diet plan. But thanks for the suggestion. And yes, a job with insurance would be a blessing. The closest thing I've found to the Desmond site so far is the American Diabetes Association website, which doesn't look anywhere near as helpful as the Desmond program. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 07 Sep 09 - 06:27 PM As an update: I've been getting some help from the people at the American Diabetes Association discussion forum, and they've put me on to some local resources that might be of some help. Thanks to everyone who has helped out with resources and experience here in this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 07 Sep 09 - 06:47 PM Diabetes.... It's about eating simple food, regularly. It's about watering down the orange juice 50/50....having a handful of strawberries rather than a bowlful. It's about Slimmers World food, which is excellent for Type II diabetes, I know, I eat it, and my blood sugar is normal, my cholesterol is so low...and I'm diabetic. It's about using a bike, instead of the car, or walking whenever you can. It's about exercise.... It's about not letting blood tests rule your life. It's about taking a brisk walk, if your blood sugar is high, to lower it again. It's also about realising that a cake or a chocolate bar now and then is NOT going to kill you. It's about some cool, iced water with lemon, instead of beer or wine. It's about common sense taking over from sugar. And it's about realising that diabetes is not so much an illness, but more your body's way of telling you to take care of it, please... It's about a stress free life, of learning to let go of feeling you have to live you life a certain way, because stress is not good for diabetes...so do it! Let go! It's about being taken care of, by nurses who look after you so kindly, opthalmic specialists who care about your eyes, doctors who care about your health... It's about loving your feet, taking special care of them, buffing them, moisturising them, painting those nails (yes, you too guys, should the mood take you!) getting 'The Sexiest Feet In The Neighbourhood' Award! It's about not feeling bitter, or that your life is 'over', but realising that a far healthier life is just beginning. It's about realising that actually, diabetes could be one of the best things to happen to you, not the worst.. And, it's about understanding that YOU can control your diabetes, and not let IT control you. It's about learning to relax, to feel at home with being diabetic. Diabetes, it's about YOU, in all the most positive ways imaginable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 08 Sep 09 - 07:03 AM Absolute, magical Words Of Wisdom, Lizzie, and my attitude to my diabetes perfectly stated! Amen, Amen, Amen! It's not The End Of Life, it's a New Life, but not as we used to know it, Jim! I live it your way, my BP is under control, my glucose around 6.5 (perfectamundo!), and my cholesterol count is 2.0 (I KID YOU NOT! The Diabetic-Nurse almost fell off her chair - and it's been down there for the past two years). My feet get regular 6-weekly checks by a podiatrist and frequent applications of foot-softening cream - aaaaaaaahhhh! I have annual eye-tests and retinopathy checks. No problemo senora! Low fat + low sugar + low salt + low GI + regular exercise = a healthy, happy T2 Diabetic. And a naughty 'treat' once in a while never killed anyone - even a diabetic! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: Dave Roberts Date: 08 Sep 09 - 08:23 AM I agree. Lizzie C has it exactly right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 09 Sep 09 - 03:21 PM Nice healthy attitude Lizzie C and David R
Some people take control of the situation - others prefer the "poor dog" victim-of-circumstance that brings them attention.
From WolfRamAlpha.com ( © 2009 Wolfram Alpha LLC—A Wolfram Research Company)
DIABETES
Number of deaths 76,813 per year
Cause of death probability 1 in 32 ~~ 3.2% rate of death
26 deaths per 100000 persons per year
Sincerely,
With a mudcat membership of 30,000 - we could expect 3 more MEMBERS to kick the bucket before the new year. Oh sweet. sweet pee,
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 09 Sep 09 - 06:23 PM Yes, better I should stick my head in the sand and not try to help a loved one who needed my help. That would definitely be the better way to go. Thanks for the insight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: mg Date: 09 Sep 09 - 09:51 PM Try my Reno diet. Find an allyou can eat buffet. Of course only eat the things that you should..in my case it is meats, salads, stir fries, small amount of fruit, etc. I find it is much easier than cooking because by the time you get around to cooking it feels like it is too late..also at a regular restaurant meal you have to pick all the starch off everything. This way the food is all ready to go. Sometimes Chinese restaurants will have something similar. No sugary sauces, no MSG, no rice. Chinese restaurants are actually quite good if you know what you are getting..,and you can just ask. if you are in one place, find one nearby and have your main meal there if you don't do well with cooking. Vegetables and meat and meat and vegetables. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 09 Sep 09 - 09:53 PM Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: freda underhill Date: 21 Sep 09 - 09:26 AM Carol Lizzie's comments are so true. but some of us find it hard to shift into truly feeling that way. I went to a hypnotist to implant some deep, positive thoughts, to help me make healthier choices and manage my diabetes. a friend's wife went to this women and gave up smoking after one session. when i heard that, I rang up and made an appointment. i helped write the thoughts i wanted my hypnotist to implant - it has been a great experience. I feel like a lot of limiting messages I had taken on unconsciously were removed, or at least substantially disempowered, while I have a lot of positive thoughts and habits so deeply and easily reinforced. The Prof at the Diaqbetes Clinic (free in Oz) has seen the impact as my sugar levels have dropped, I've lost weight. he's amazed and has reduced the amount of medication I have to take. I recommend hypnosis for any desired lifestyle or attitude change, but you need to have a good hypnotist. i went to someone else years ago and it didn't work at all. freda |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 21 Sep 09 - 10:26 AM I really appreciate the recommendation, but already I can imagine the laughter such a recommendation would be met with should I suggest it to my loved one. LOL But thanks. On the good news front, they've been working very hard to get their blood sugar numbers down and it has helped a lot. Since the new test strips arrived a couple of days ago, the blood sugar readings have been within the acceptable range. Thanks again, everyone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: Backwoodsman Date: 21 Sep 09 - 02:53 PM Good news Carol, glad to hear that. Nil Illegitimae Carborundum. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 23 Sep 09 - 12:10 AM CarolC -
Your thread - launched my usual reverse Munchousen's psychoschematic reflex...and I feared DIABETES
Therefore I invested in my future:
Taking lots (up to six a day) of readings.
The highest was at 2:00 p.m. on afternoon ... after a cheese-burger, fries and sweetened ice tea....
157!!!!]
I took a walk to the library:
103!!!!
Sincerely,
Not hard ... Nor expensive.
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: RobbieWilson Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:26 AM Carol, I have read this from start to finish and can say that most of the advice was probably appropriate for someone at some point, but it's not as simple as that. Adult onset, or type 2, diabetes is not a static condition. When I was first diagnosed about 14 years ago I could keep my sugar levels under control with good diet and excecise howeveras time goes by the pancreas produces less insulin and/or your body becomes less effective in utilising the insulin it produces. I do not know how the numbers compare between the scale used in UK with that in US ( though I do know I have seen it in the past and it is quite easy to find.) The blood Glucose of anyone without diabetes is maintained between 4 and 7 by insulin produced in the pancreas. If your blood sugar is consistently over 10 you may feel tired a lot of the time. Over 15 you will get thirsty, need to pee frequently and get lethatgic and headachey. At these levels while the symptoms appear a bit irritating but tolerable the real damage is long term and almost imperceptible. Small blood vessels and nerves get damaged, especially in the extremeties. For 11 years I maintained control with the aid of medications mentioned by other people here, namely Metformin and Gliclasides. These serve to squeeze a bit more insulin out of your pancreas or to make your body more able to use the little you have. About 18 months ago I had to go on to insulin to control my blood glucose. At that point the whole regime changes. Up to then dealing with diabetes is a constant struggle to keep your glucose levels down. When people talk about Hypo's, the immediate unwellness that afflicts diabetics where your blood sugar is too low, this is almost always people taking insulin whose insulin intake and excercise has not been balanced with their carbs consumption. The ill effects of high sugar are drastic but come on over a long span of time. By the sound of your posts your friend is not taking insulin. This means that healthy lifestyle means not taking in more carbs than you expend in energy. Complex carbs are generally better than simple and refined carbs like sugars. Fatty foods impair your body's uptake of insulin. The only benefit of blood testing is to understand where to go next with treatment. However the long term effects of elevated sugar levels are so drastic ( blindness, loss of toes, feet lower legs)that periodic checking is essential in order to establish control. I am aware that this post is getting overlong and heavy so I will stop but if you have any questions I will look in again. Feel free to pm me if you want a less public discussion. love Robert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:29 AM Thanks. I appreciate that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: RobbieWilson Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:44 AM In most countries, blood glucose is reported in terms of molarity, measured in mmol/L (or millimolar, abbreviated mM). In the United States, and to a lesser extent elsewhere, mass concentration, measured in mg/dL, is typically used. To convert blood glucose readings between the two units: Divide a mg/dL figure by 18 (or multiply by 0.055) to get mmol/L. Multiply a mmol/L figure by 18 (or divide by 0.055) to get mg/dL. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: mg Date: 23 Sep 09 - 02:44 PM You don't know if your body is not producing enough insulin unless you have it tested. You will probably just have to pay for this test yourself as most doctors won't do it apparently even if you request it, beg for it, show them research data. It is pretty darn ignorant. Your body can be flooded with insulin and you can have high blood sugar. My doctor who specializes in this says your cells get candy coated and insulin can't do its job. So adding more insulin might force something, but is probably not correcting the problem in type 2. Read up more on fats. Some are good and they are what helps regulate your blood sugar. Everyone is different. I know on a low-carb diet my insulin levels last year were 24, with 17 being the highest is should be and 10 probably a good score. That is with me watching and being very compliant low-carb wise..It used to be 47. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 15 Oct 09 - 11:57 PM Dearest Carol C. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Controlling Diabetes From: CarolC Date: 18 Oct 09 - 01:11 PM They're doing very well. They're making good progress and some of the food suggestions in this thread have helped. They're doing a good job of controlling their carb intake, and candy's not so much of a problem because they're not very fond of sweets. |
