Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance

Subject: Show Of Hands - bad for folk music
From: taddylad
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:31 AM

I see that Show Of Hands have done a video of themselves on the internet plastering self-publicity over buildings in London about their new record. I thought they were supposed to be a folk-singing group and I think this will do a lot of damage to the image of english folk music which is very highly thought of and does not need this blatent vandalism.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:36 AM

Do you feel used?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:41 AM

SoH doing a Banksie? Must see this. Link, please.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:45 AM

something about the literary style of the opening post makes me suspect that goatfell has acquired yet another Mudcat nom de plume.

Is this in fact you, Tam ?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: mandotim
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:46 AM

This is outrageous! We can't have folk music entering the world of popular culture! It doesn't belong to ordinary people, it belongs to us! What would Ewan have thought? Heaven forbid that someone might try to make a living out of this music; surely anyone who sings this sort of thing should be one of us, with independent means! Next thing you know we'll have oiks with guitars in our folk clubs...er...hang on...
Tim ;)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:48 AM

Yes, a rather suspicious opening post under a rather unlikely name. Ignore.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:48 AM

Whatever...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Kampervan
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 12:26 PM

It's on Youtube just search for


SHOW OF HANDS - AIG 2010

Sorry not good at doing clicky links!!

K/van

---

...but I'm good at clicky links...-Joe O.-

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: TheSnail
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 12:30 PM

Bit confused by the line at about 301 in -

"With the crumpled goat you found"

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 12:35 PM

Nah, it's not Tom Hamilton. It's not his style, and it appears to be a London based poster too. Tom is in Scotland, on the Clyde Estuary.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Captain Farrell
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 12:38 PM

A very slick production please let them make a living

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 01:08 PM

Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed

Thanks, Mr Van.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: TheSnail
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 01:10 PM

the line at about 301

Sorry, that should have been "the line at about 30s".

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 01:20 PM

It's a good song, it's a protest song, quite Dylanesque in a way.
A folk song it isn't, pure rock in style.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 01:36 PM

Remove this thread....please... it serves no purpose!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 02:16 PM

It's serving the purpose of bigging up SoH. Which is, presumably, the point.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: SunrayFC
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 02:32 PM

why don't people on here make it clear who they are.

What's the point otherwise.

Hide behind some stupid name and make controversial comments. It's not adult! Not mature!

And as to SOH- they are excellent!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: jeffp
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 02:40 PM

And who are you?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:05 PM

Shite! Diane put a Show of Who? link in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's TRUE, she DOES have Show of Who? knickers!

I didn't dare believe the rumour, of course, but now....



WOW!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: SunrayFC
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:18 PM

that's so funny!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 03:43 PM

The thing is.....does Phil have The Borchester Echo underpants?

We need to know.. ;0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 06:36 PM

So you are anti-promotion/publicity - publicly promoting Show of hands whose publicity you disdain.

Sounds like a shot in the foot to me!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: taddylad
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 07:59 PM

I havn't used the Internet much before but I was delighted to find so many interesting things about folk music on a Website like this, which I was told about by people as being very relavant to Folk Music which I have been listening to for a long time and I have been to folk clubs quite a lot, but I have been quite suprised by some of the rubbish which this Website has been quoting.
For example Mr Borchester Echo says I am bigging up Show of hands when in fact I think really that they're publicity stunt is bringing folk music into disrapute by causing people to complain about litter and sticking posters up on public property, all because they want to advertise themselves like some pop band.As I said i have been to a lot of folk clubs for a long time and even spoke to (and I got their autographs)from some famous groups like the Yetties but a lot of people, for example some people I work with think, that folk music is quite respectible.
And Mr John Mackenzie I would like to ask how much you know about me as you say I am from London but I am a proud Yorkshireman, from Tadcaster which as you obviously don't know is known as Taddy, so ha ha you don't know that much.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 09:24 PM

Well, I guess I wouldn't call "Arogance, Ignorance, and Greed" a "folk" songs, so I have no purist folkie expectations for it. Nonetheless, it seems to be a good song, and I think the video is well-produced.

Wondering why there's always such controversy about Show of Hands, I played several cuts on Spotify. I found I liked some, and didn't like others. But no, they're not pure folk, so why expect them to be? If Cyril Tawney had acted like Show of Hands, I might have been distressed. If Show of Hands acts like a commercial group, that's OK with me.

Is Taddylad trolling? Maybe, maybe not. The objectionable posts in this thread come from others, who ought to know better.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?
From: Soldier boy
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 09:27 PM

I am a proud Yorkshire man too but I would now appeal to everyone (after seeing his posting above) to just ignore this lame brain that can hardly put a sentance together and not to give him oxygen.

In other words don't fuel his fire because you will just waste your breath and time and it's not worth it.

As Georgiansilver has said.."Remove this thread...please.."

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: TheSnail
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 09:31 PM

Oh! It's "With the crock of gold you found".

I think I preferred the crumpled goat.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Soldier boy
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 09:38 PM

Sorry Joe I wasn't refering to you here. I was refering to 'taddylad' and I don't like to be 'objectionable' but I love Show of Hands and he is talking rubbish and I find his comments offensive.
(Your comments were very diplomatic by the way!)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 10:28 PM

Well, it took forever to load, and I have broadband, but I liked it. Not folk, but it's got a nice upbeat sound. Has anyone actually *seen* the handbills posted all over as in the video? Looks like a set up for the video, to me. Even so...there's nothing wrong with promoting one's work, imo.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Skivee
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 10:59 PM

I don't see what Taddylad is getting all twisty about. It's clearly a music video, made to promote the political POV of the song. Has TL seen general press reports of SOH's rampent bill posting vandalism? I doubt it.
This feels like somebody having us on.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignor
From: treewind
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 03:33 AM

"crumpled goat"
Oi! What's my Bulgarian gaida got to do with all this?
(it even smelled of goat when I first bought it)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: stallion
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:32 AM

as someone who spent a night in the cells for fly posting I can tell you that what they were posting, whilst admittedly had political content, was most certainly arty farty compared with the sedition I was plastering on the walls! taddy btw is Sir whats's name heartland, Sam Smiths brewery owner wot don't allow live music in 'is pubs...........ooo taddy lad are you 'im trying to get yer own back!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:36 AM

bigging up

If the crumpled goats want to self-promote they can, and do. I'd prefer it personally if they pursued their other projects since, as is very well known, the only thing I don't like that much about Beer & Knightley is SoH. They can, and have, done much better, musically.

(Ms) Borchester Echo

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: nickp
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:46 AM

Good for them!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Alex
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 05:06 AM

One of the folk scene's problems is that everyone is so self-serious and, as we see on a daily basis on here especially in this thread, have little sense of humour or irony. Taddylad's original post is clearly a wind-up and if we were in any doubt, his second one surely confirms it, with its amusing lack of grammar. So who's the perpetrator? Who'd want to bring attention to the video? He has form for this sort of thing so surely it's obvious - it must be a very effective piece of self-publicity. So I'll doff my cap to... Mr Steve Knightley.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 05:21 AM

Oh dear, Taddylad, you've really missed the point, haven't you? Perhaps you've spent too long sniffing the heady atmosphere created by the Messrs. Smith or spending too much time in the Angel & White Horse, or the Howden Arms, or the Britannia, or the Falcon or.......

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: OlgaJ
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 06:12 AM

Why is it that some mudcatters seem to think music can't fit into the genre 'folk' if it is successful and people are actually making money out of it? Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me. Social comment has always been at the heart of 'folk' songs and SoH perpetuate this in a modern style, appreciated by a huge following of young (and not so young)people as can be seen at their festival appearances. We can't have it both ways - either we accept new ways of doing folk or we watch the whole tradition disappear.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 06:54 AM

To my mind it's no less vandalism than the bloody awful 'tv screen' Lehman Bros (now Barclays) building in New York...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: melodeonboy
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 08:35 AM

"Why is it that some mudcatters seem to think music can't fit into the genre 'folk' if it is successful and people are actually making money out of it? Sounds a bit like sour grapes to me."

Why is it that the same old line (above) is trotted out every time anyone dares to criticise a "successful" folk artist?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 10:18 AM

I hope they hit the big time so some of our struggling semi pros can maybe get a few gigs on the fallout.;-)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 10:49 AM

I wonder how many songs there are out there already on this theme? Has Tom Paxton written anything along these lines? Leon Rosselson?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 12:13 PM

I had far more respect for Show of Who when they weren't bowing and kowtowing to The Traddies, but standing on stage saying how much they weren't like that..

Er...then it all changed....

Still, at least The Traddies are now getting some good recordings from Phil..and many of their favourite artists have been given opportunities by Show of Who....

Who'd a thunk it, eh?

I haven't bought this CD...but I've heard the title track and it's good.


Erm, are Show of Who booked for Cecil Sharpley House yet?   

Just wonderin'......

I'm sure they'll get there, eventually.......

;0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 01:18 PM

But we all thought YOU were organising a C# concert. And a Torbay Festival. And a radio programme. And a dyslexia campaign. And free bath handles for all. Bit behind with the arrangements, then?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 02:17 PM

I hope they hit the big time so some of our struggling semi pros can maybe get a few gigs on the fallout.;-)

Sorry that was me.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Aeola
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:04 PM

Good luck to them!!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 04:36 PM

I have been having one hell of a job getting youtube videos to load on my PC which is served by a wireless connection. They play for 5 secs then load for 20 and so on. Then I transferred to channel 6 and tried the superb SOH video and bingo - it loaded and played without stopping. It's a damn good song.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: bubblyrat
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:41 AM

I have never liked SOH,and probably never will,so I don't have any of their recordings,and I don't go to their performances,but I would not wish to denigrate them on the internet,if,indeed ,at all----I think that PB is a fine musician,and that SK is a talented songwriter,but I just can't get tuned in to their material ! If they wish to be a bit "over the top" in the publicity department,then good luck to them,I say !

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:01 AM

No, no....I wouldn't be organising a Show of Who show....WhatEVER made you think that?

I am hoping though that you, being a new fan and all, along with Ian Anderson and Joan Crump WILL be. I'm still waiting to read write ups from you all about their gigs...

'Tis most strange..

Still, I expect you're making sure that every word you write is filled with love for your new found heroes.

;0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Mary Brennan
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:34 AM

Lizzie, when you write provocative posts like that, people like Ian and Joan won't write about SOH. When they do write about them, you gloat, just like you did when Diane put the link in. Just like you do every time Ian mentions Seth Lakeman.

Gloating isn't nice.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:47 AM

Personal feuds are best slugged out in a car-park somewhere, no weapons, but kicking, gouging and biting permitted.

Public fora are not the right place for personal battles to be pursued. Such puerile antics show all of the participants in a singularly bad light, and detract from the value of discussion, and subject matters in hand.

Many of us are heartily sick and tired of pugnacious and insulting postings by people whom, I strongly suspect, would defecate in their underwear if someone offered them 'outside'.

For God's sake GROW UP, the lot of you, or it'll be bed at six WITH NO SUPPER!

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Jan 10 - 09:15 AM

Hey, I think it's great that Ian's become a Seth fan! Especially after he tried to hinder his career...and...of course...FAR be it from me to suggest that fRoots use Seth's good looks to sell their magazine...Oh no no no no no.........nooooooooo

And as for 'Mary Brennan'...yeah, right...

Oh come on now, Mary, I'm sure, you be a visitor to the fRoots board an' all, as well as once upon a time to my myspace page, know how all the usual gang said how much they now respected Show of Who, after Steve and Phil said what they did....

Shame they don't respect their music, huh?

I did, but I have to respect both the artist AND the music for the inspirational thoughts to flow, otherwise, they stop dead.

I do find it intriguing though as to WHY, after nearly SIX years of me yattering on about Show of Who, and bringing people into their music, as has been said to me over and again, WHY it took them so long to stand up and tell me they preferred the 'vitriol' to my supportive words.   

I'd hate to think it was to keep in with the Traddies, with the new recordings that are happening, because hell, that would be so hypocritical....but...hey ho...

Six Years is a long time in Journalism, as they do say....

"Haul away, boys....."