MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice

Subject: MC Fat's Daughter Need US legal Advice
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 06:27 AM

My daughter who has been working in Boston Mass USA for 2 and a half years has hit upon a problem with her employers. are there any catters who could help with legal issues re her employment and contract law. I could sure use some support and I know she would be gratefull of some assistance. It's one of those times when I feel as a Dad and being so far away I can't just pop in and sort it out.

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Need US legal Advice
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 09:31 AM

I can't help you but I can sympathize. I have a kid in Korea and sometimes Skype just don't cut it. You never stop being a parent do you?

Don

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Need US legal Advice
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 10:10 AM

That's the thing that's galling at the mo. I really want to go and give this shower a piece of my mind or in other words 'twat them'

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Need US legal Advice
From: Melissa
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 10:39 AM

I don't know anything legal/useful..but if she hasn't checked her state's Department of Labor site, she might be able to pick up an idea of where else to look for information relating to her situation.

Good luck to both you and your daughter..hope it works out ok for her.

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Need US legal Advice
From: Amos
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 10:45 AM

MC:

Try getting in touch with MidChuck with the details of the situation. He might be able to ask someone in the specialty.


A

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Need US legal Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 10:58 AM

I had the same thought Amos.......try a PM to him.

Spaw

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Need US legal Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 11:04 AM

Hi Peter

Got a 'Catter on this thread that needs some legal guidance......

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=127642&messages=6

Best as Always......and I won't even end with a lawyer joke.....

Pat

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Need US legal Advice
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 11:08 AM

I just sent the above to Midchuck

Spaw

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Need US legal Advice
From: vectis
Date: 25 Feb 10 - 02:33 PM

My lads are in NZ and the distance and time differences are a major buggeration factor.
Hope this comes right for your wee lassie.

(((((((((((((((((((((McFat))))))))))))))))))))

Mary

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 26 Feb 10 - 06:42 AM

Hope you get the help Jimmy

Ray

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: Acorn4
Date: 26 Feb 10 - 06:56 AM

Hope it all sorts out OK, Jim.

My step daughter is in Sicily and has no security of contract - she's decided to jack the whole thing in and come back (with baby!) to the UK.

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: MC Fat
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 04:58 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: Midchuck
Date: 27 Feb 10 - 08:21 PM

Unfortunately, I formally retired last fall, and I was never admitted in MA anyhow, so I can't offer any help.

Peter

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 05:18 AM

As a "once-upon-a-time" union executive officer, I can't offer legal advice; but I can perhaps suggest where to look for help.

It is fairly unusual for most individuals employees to have a formal contract. If the person does have one, then what's written in the contract is what rules.

There are some cases where a company is required to have, and to publish, company policies and in some cases "rules of conduct" for employees. If the company has published any such, they should be generally enforceable, but tend to favor the company rather than the employee. If the company has ignored a requirement, and failed to produce any such required documents and make them available to all affected employees, one can probably make a strong legal case for just about any whim suggestive of maltreatment - but (in my best guess) it will require very excellent legal counsel.

If there isn't a contract between the individual and the company, there may be an employment agreement stating minimal working conditions and method (and sometimes amounts) of payment. Beyond what is stated in that agreement, and published company polies, most people are "employees at will" and the management is pretty much free to do what they want, including discharge without notice and/or changes in working assignments and conditions.

There are some regulations, especially with respect to harrassment and "inhumane working conditions," usually refered to as "anti-discrimination laws," and there are minimum wage laws that include not only the minimum amount paid but also when "overtime pay" may be required.

Federal laws/regulations generally are enforceable only for companies in "interstate commerce" or for those having contracts with the Federal Government.

State laws may supercede harrassment and minimum wage laws for local companies who don't fall under the Federal regs.

The harrassment and minimum wage laws/regulations - both state and federal - generally do not apply to small companies, and "overtime pay" has so many ways that companies can weasel out of paying it that the work hours and overtime pay regulations are really of little effect.

If there is a union at the company, and if the person is a member of the group eligible for union membership, then the US Federal Law requires that the union must enforce their contract for all "eligible members of the contract group" regardless of whether they pay the dues. (If you want enthusiastic enforement it's probably best to be a member of the union.) In some states, all members of the "organized group" must pay dues whether or not they join the union (called a "check off law") and in some states - so-called "union states" - all eligible members are required to actually be union members. The difference is largely a matter of whether everybody (who pays dues) can vote in the union elections and on new contracts (although where actual membership has been a permitted requirement some unions have used membership quotas to limit competition).

I don't know whether it may be usual for "green card" workers to have more detailed individual contracts than is usual for "citizens." For most of us, the first contact necessary/recommended when maltreatment is suspected - and not resolved directly with local management - usually is the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC); but I don't have experience with whether they considers resident aliens to be part of their responsibility. Assistance one gets from them can be quite variable (based on my experience) but one can get lots of forms and regs to read from them. Personal knowledge of specific regulations that you can cite is probably quite important if one expects a satisfactory outcome in any significant dispute.

For any suspected breach of conduct on the part of a company that might fall under EEOC jurisdiction, it should be noted that most offenses must be reported within specific (usually fairly short) times after the "first cause for complaint" so a prompt look at whether they offer anything should be considered important, if only to determine if deadlines must be met.

Individaul states may have state equivalents to the Federal EEOC, but I have no idea whether Massachussetts has such an office. Web and phone books are a place to start looking.

Hiring one's own attorney is generally impractical (my opinion) unless one has a provable complaint of a company action that violates a specific statute that permits "punitive damages."

Age discrimination cases under the Federal statuts, for example, are not permitted to collect anything except "actual losses" so it's usually impossible even to hire an attorney - because you can't get anything out of the case with which to pay one. Sexual and Racial discrimination - the last time I looked - allow "punitive damages" (2x or 3x the actual loss claimed) and are more viable.

Note that these are just "lay observations" and more informed (and more current) advice should be pursued before making any threats to one's current employer.

John

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 04:51 AM

Looks as biga mine field as UK law Jimmy!

Contracts can be implied in UK law simply by just doing the job and surely as your daughter is a qualified teacher this must count for something, and terms and conditions should not be any worse than anyone who is a US national!

Obviously we don't know the problems ~ is she not in the union in the USA or even in UK?

Ray

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: MC Fat
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 09:24 AM

Yeah it does. It appears that her employers are negligent and crap. She is basically near the end of her time there ( nearly 3 years she's been there)and they are trying to hit her with some charges they should have taken from her salary ages ago. It's their fault they haven't done so and I don't think they should penalise her.

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 01:01 PM

They are in a strong position Jimmy as they control the payments

However she should consult initially with her union and refer to any contract of employment

Looks like they are negligent at least if these deductions are statutory like Ni conts in UK

Ray

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 07:54 PM

My husband is a lawyer but unfortunately this is not his speciality nor is he licensed in MA.... HAVE YOU TALKED TO A LICENSED ATTORNEY IN THE STATE??

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: MC Fat
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:33 AM

I'm trying to get all the facts together at moment. They are trying to recover money 'they have forgotten' to take from her salary. Basically they are inept and should not be placing my daughter in such hardship near the end of her contract.

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:52 AM

In the UK the angle would be estoppel, but I think that the USA and the UK have been diverging for some years (since the late 1940s) in that area. Even in the UK I have seen well-known (ie have own column in national newspaper) lawyers say exactly the opposite to what I would say about similar-ish situations. But of course lawyers with differing opinions are how litigation can come to occur.

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:59 AM

To start the ball rolling, in the UK the situation about unlawful deductions from wages was governed by the "Truck Acts" from long long before the time that the USA declared independence, and therefore those Acts are likely to have been continued into US common law - until repealed if they ever were (much as the US originally followed old UK copyright law flowing from the Statute of Anne). In the UK the relevant law is now subsumed into the Employment Rights Act 1996 as amended.

I imagine however that US law did change, given the number of customary references to "the company stores".

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 04:27 AM

Looks like they have the right to make the deductions, and not the ability to do it in a timely fashion.
If the deductions are lawful in the first place, and that would be my first challenge, then as it is due to their negligence this wasn't done correctly.
I would then determine the amount due, and make them an offer, of an agreeable amount [to you] in full and final payment, and see what happens.

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: Bert
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 08:25 AM

..then what's written in the contract is what rules...
Not in every state. Here in Colorado they have "Employment at will" which overrides a written contract.

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: MC Fat
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 10:05 AM

Getting some details from my daughter but intend to approach from the company accepting a fair offer in light of their negligance. thanks for everyone's thoughts and help

Subject: RE: MC Fat's Daughter Needs US legal Advice
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 11:18 AM

Good luck. When we moved out East, my husband's employer agreed to pay all moving costs, including airfare for the kids and I plus our pets. They did as promised. The next year when things began to get a little tight in the industry they suddenly said that meant they would pay it upfront, but we would have to repay them through paycheck reductions. We had no recourse but to allow them to which really caused a hardship for us.

Have you PMd InObu/Lorcan Otway? I don't know if he is licensed in MA, but he may know someone who is and, as far as I know, he has experience in this type of law; his Mudcat handle stands for "In One Big Union."