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Folklore: Bread Rolls
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Subject: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Paul Reade Date: 11 Apr 10 - 06:45 AM This may seem an odd subject, but in these days of universal marketing the humble bread roll seems to be one product which is still known by a variety of local names: teacake, barm cake, bap etc. At a session in Yorkshire recently, someone did a poem about visiting Lancashire and asking for a sausage sandwich in a café. "What do you want it on?" asked the waitress; "A teacake" he replied, whereupon it was served in a currant bun! Any other local variations on this? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: GUEST,Gerry Date: 11 Apr 10 - 07:04 AM In the US I just called them rolls. In Sydney people didn't know what I meant unless I said bread roll. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: VirginiaTam Date: 11 Apr 10 - 07:23 AM In US we also called them buns. In The Silver Whistle When my King's son he comes back home No bruising stones will put before him! Loaves of bread, bread will be baking For Charles, with eyes so blue, enticing Loaves of bread would not have meant large multi serve slice-able bread. More like the size the biblical loaves and fishes (shepherd boy's dinner) that Christ multiplied to feed the thousands. Sadly now the words loaf and loaves are quite specifically the whole unit of sliced bread. Found these on wikipedia Batch - Coventry/Nuneaton term , a large soft floured roll from Shropshire. Bulkie roll - A type of roll with a crust that is usually slightly crisp or crunchy and has no toppings. Bun -(e.g., hamburger bun or hot dog bun). Buttery - A flat savoury roll from Aberdeen. Cob - A bread roll of any kind in the West Midlands and East Midlands. The name originates from the resemblance to the shape and size of a cobblestone. In these areas the term "bread roll" often refers exclusively to a longer, hot-dog style roll. Muffin - Some people in the UK refer to a bread roll as a "muffin" (commonly used in Rochdale, Oldham, Bury, Ashton-Under-Lyne), although a muffin is also a separate, distinct form of bread product. See English Muffin. Nudger, a soft white or brown roll similar to a finger roll common in Liverpool. Oven Bottom, a Lancashire term for a flat, floury, soft roll. Stottie cake, a thick, flat, round loaf. Stotties are common in North East England. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: gnomad Date: 11 Apr 10 - 07:26 AM Also bread-bun, bun, oven-bottom cake, stottie, breadcake, plain teacake (so distinguished from just a "teacake" which,as your friend discovered, can mean the fruit variety) or cob (which can sometimes mean a round loaf about 9" across) It's a subject in which meanings can change in quite a small distance, fraught with possibilities for looking a twit. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 11 Apr 10 - 07:29 AM The standard bread roll was a bun when I lived in Geordieland - the Stottie cake was quite different. They have barmcakes (or just barms) on Merseyside. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: GUEST,MadauntieCat Date: 11 Apr 10 - 07:32 AM Very regional. Being a southern softie, 'stotties'and 'barm cakes' threw me for a while, as did our 'cobs' and 'drippers' in return. I likes drippers, me. Erm...folk?! Anyone know a song about bread rolls? (grin). |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Manitas_at_home Date: 11 Apr 10 - 08:07 AM I ask for a sausage torpedo in the cafe in the mornings and they keep telling me it's a baguette. It's quite clearly a torpedo on the menu! In East London the beigel ( i as in pipe) has almost completely been replaced by the bagel. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Rob Naylor Date: 11 Apr 10 - 09:06 AM ...plain teacake (so distinguished from just a "teacake" which,as your friend discovered, can mean the fruit variety) or cob (which can sometimes mean a round loaf about 9" across) Not in Yorkshore or the West Riding as was, anyway). A "teacake" would automatically be plain bread. If you wanted the fruit variety you'd have to ask for a "currant teacake". And then there was the "long bun"...a longer, thinner version of the currant teacake. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: open mike Date: 11 Apr 10 - 09:11 AM there are many styles, types and sizes of mexican bread this one fits in your hand http://www.enasco.com/prod/images/products/B0/AC042509l.jpg here are some descriptions http://www.articleclick.com/Article/What-Are-Some-Types-of-Mexican-Bread/959383 and some pictures of sweet ones http://www.frugallawstudent.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/a822.jpg |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Geoff the Duck Date: 11 Apr 10 - 09:21 AM There have been previous discussions on the naming of (UK) bread, and when I grew up in Bradford (West Yorks) you could locate people on a map within a few miles if you asked them what they called certain items of bread and things sold in chip shops. Only last Summer in Whitby I identified some total strangers in a pub as residents of Keighley using the Bread and ChipShop system. Take bread, 4 to 6" diameter, flattened, fairly soft but not floury, not identical, but similar enough to be regarded as essentially the same. Keighley was "barm cakes", West Leeds "bread cakes", Bradford "tea cakes" (white, brown or currant). Baps were rolls - soft and floured and from further afield. Cobs were rolls - soft inside, but a crisp crust. Bradford had "flat cakes" which large diameter oven bottom jobs which looked as if they were cooked with a baking tray on both top and bottom. I think the North-East stottie is similar, but would not bet money on it. There area bunch of others, but I am off shopping. Quack! GtD. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Apr 10 - 02:14 PM Muffins, to most North Americans, is a rather cakey form, often with nuts, fruit, chocolate chips and whatever, baked in a small paper cup. See pictures- http://www.muffinrecipes.net English muffins in North America are usually flattened rounds, tasteless but OK with jam, butter, etc. on top. see pictures- http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/English-Muffins/Detail.aspx A simple teacake, American var. (sometimes called sugar cookies) 1 cup butter 1 3/4 cups white sugar 2 eggs 3 cups all-purpose flour 1/2 teaspoon baking soda 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/4 teaspoon ground nutmeg 1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract Often nuts, fruit, etc. added. As I understand it, the original English teacake lacks the sugar. Many in North America are loaded with raisins, etc. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: MGM·Lion Date: 11 Apr 10 - 05:52 PM A muffin in England is an unsweetened cake, thick but flat, eaten toasted for tea; unhappily the American nomenclature English-muffin is taking over here, as Americans imagine that what are properly called sweet buns (a sort of cupcake, but not iced) should be called muffins. Muffins here [real ones] are a fine old tradition ~~ in Dickens' Oliver Twist, Mr Grimwig visits Mr Brownlow for tea on days when he expects him to be eating muffins. And these are the sort of muffins that "The muffin man who lives in Drury Lane" in the nursery=rhyme would have been selling; along with another sort of unsweetened English teatime flat toasted cake, the crumpet, which is cellular baked and so absorbs the butter when hot, and has a particularly delicious flavour which folklore ascribes to a recipe traditionally kept secret by bakers. {"Crumpet", in English slang, is a word synonymous also with "totty", denoting the female regarded as sexual object; tho what the connection [apart from delicious desirability] to teatime treats I have never quite understood. ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Rob Naylor Date: 11 Apr 10 - 06:16 PM Geoff the Duck: Take bread, 4 to 6" diameter, flattened, fairly soft but not floury, not identical, but similar enough to be regarded as essentially the same. Keighley was "barm cakes", West Leeds "bread cakes", Bradford "tea cakes" (white, brown or currant). I grew up south of Bradford...on the Wyke side of Scholes: Westfield Lane area. My dad had one of the Fish & Chip shops in Wyke (having worked up from being a window cleaner, a miner and a leatherworker). Definitely tea cakes in our house. And the "fish cakes" we sold in the shop were made of 2 slices of a very large potato with a slice of fish sandwiched between them, dipped in batter and fried like the fish. AKA "patties". "Fish cakes" down here in Kent, if you can get them, seem to consist of fish and potato mashed together, rolled in breadcrumbs and shallow-fried. As I said on the "dialect" thread, back then you could virtually tell which village somebody came from by the dialect words used. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Anne Lister Date: 12 Apr 10 - 10:57 AM It's a fascinating subject - and it's also true in France, where the naming of loaves and bread products is also regional to a great extent. I was always particularly happy in Paris, where I worked through most of my university vacations at an international hostel, and would be sent out some mornings to buy a bastard or half a bastard (in the not-so-distant English translation). A side issue is the naming of cakes in the patisseries, where my favourite were known as nun's farts. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Valmai Goodyear Date: 12 Apr 10 - 11:26 AM And what became of the term 'French loaf'? Ask for a French loaf in a modern baker's and you will be met by a look of blank incomprehension until you say 'baguette'. It's loaf, Jim, but not as we know it. Valmai (Lewes) |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Les from Hull Date: 12 Apr 10 - 11:58 AM Of course a teacake's got currants in it. Otherwise it'd be a breadcake. Have you never had a toasted teacake? Bread rolls are circular in cross sections, often called dinner rolls. Baps are smaller than breadcakes, bigger than a bread roll. Don't get me going about pikelets. Anyone who disagrees with any of the above is clearly wrong! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Rob Naylor Date: 12 Apr 10 - 07:25 PM Bolleaux, Les, a teacake's a teacake. If it's got currants in it it'd be a *currant* teacake. There is no such thing as a breadcake. So :-P |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Apr 10 - 08:16 PM In Berlin, they were called Schrippen. When I was a seminary student in Milwaukee, we had a steady breakfast diet of something very similar, but we called them just "rolls" - eaten with lots of butter and, occasionally, jelly. We had them at the Catholic summer camp where I worked during college:
They say are mighty fine Till one rolled off the table And blew up Cabin Nine. Oh, I don't want no more of Villa Jerome, Gee, Ma, I wanna go home. Here's a recipe for Berliner Schrippen. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: catspaw49 Date: 12 Apr 10 - 08:20 PM Mike says: "Americans imagine that what are properly called sweet buns (a sort of cupcake, but not iced) should be called muffins. See now? There ya' go again. I've told y'all before that ya' don't know shit and once again you're wrong! This here Baby is a MUFFIN. Look at that thing and you know its just eatup with blueberries....or maybe its a cranberry-orange muffin. I dunno' what it is YOU think is a muffin but it don't compare to that mother! But I guess it just fits in with the rest of y'all's lack of knowledge about these things. Like the completely fucked up thing about cookies and biscuits and scones and all. Lissen up......You have got to quit calling biscuits "scones." There are milllions of Rednecks in this country and we are all genetically wired to know what a biscuit is when we're born.........and that thing you call a biscuit ain't nothin' but a cookie and that scone thing IS A BISCUIT! Hellfire, a Redneck baby's first meal is sausage gravy and biscuits! And I don't mean them "banger" things y'all think is sausage. I'm talking good ground pork with a shitload of sage and black pepper. Try to learn better.....I think you can. Ain't no sense in keepin' on with that ignorance. Best of Luck in Getting Your Shit Together, Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Rowan Date: 12 Apr 10 - 08:50 PM Spaw, your imitations of linguistic imperialist hegemony are legendary and without peer. I tips me lid. But stick it to the Poms and don't bother trying it on us real southerners. Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: catspaw49 Date: 12 Apr 10 - 09:15 PM LOL.....and even my ass off as well! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: MGM·Lion Date: 12 Apr 10 - 10:05 PM See now? There ya' go again. I've told y'all before that ya' don't know shit and once again you're wrong! This here Baby is a MUFFIN. Look at that thing and you know its just eatup with blueberries....or maybe its a cranberry-orange muffin. I dunno' what it is YOU think is a muffin but it don't compare to that mother! ===== Yay, Spaw, You make my point. An uniced cupcake if ever anybody ever saw such a thing: YOU PATHETIC YANK FRUITCAKE YOU!!! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Anne Lister Date: 13 Apr 10 - 02:43 AM While I disagree with Spaw about muffins I can't agree with MtheGM about cupcakes ... an American muffin is often packed full of raising agents like baking powder, hence the overgrown appearance, whereas a cupcake has a flat top and interesting icing and is more of a sponge mix. Biscuits are not scones and I personally wouldn't dream of putting gravy or sausages with a scone while cookies are a variety of biscuit. But we all know that, don't we? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Apr 10 - 03:20 AM I think you may well be right about cupcakes at that, Anne ~~ years since I had one, tho used to luv the J Lyons choc or lemon ones in my way·back childhood. But, then, what would you say was our name for what Spaw and such boobies over there will insist on calling muffins? ~ coz muffins is what they sure·a·zell ain't, eh? ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: GUEST,Pete Date: 13 Apr 10 - 03:22 AM Saw a mention of jelly back there. I hope you mean jam. Also why has no-one yet complicated matters with crumpets. (not to be confused with crumpet which is something else entirely). |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: GUEST,CrazyEddie Date: 13 Apr 10 - 03:32 AM Blaa (pronounced Blah!) A soft, round, white floury bap from Waterford (Ireland). |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Apr 10 - 04:28 AM Also why has no-one yet complicated matters with crumpets. (not to be confused with crumpet which is something else entirely). === GUESTpete, you will find I dealt with both crumpets & crumpet on 11 Apr, 5.52 PM. ~~ & even started a spinoff BS thread on definition of 'totty' emerging from what I had to say there. ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: banjoman Date: 13 Apr 10 - 04:54 AM When visiting in Missouri a couple of years ago I was interested to know what a "Thrown Roll" was until I was taken to Lamberts restauraunt where they literally throw fresh baked rolls at the customers. If you want one you have to be quick and catch it |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: theleveller Date: 13 Apr 10 - 05:16 AM "Also why has no-one yet complicated matters with crumpets" Do you mean pikelets? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Arnie Date: 13 Apr 10 - 05:31 AM When I worked in a Halifax fish & chip shop in my youth, chip butties were a favourite with the customers. The butty was a soft, round bread roll but we had no dialect name that I was aware of at the time. I also recall frying 'chats' when in season. Bet there's a few mudcatters out there who know what these are. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Valmai Goodyear Date: 13 Apr 10 - 05:41 AM I think what Americans call muffins are a variation on the English fairy cake, with different combinations of fruit. The Cupcakes I have met are denser, fruitless, flat on top, cling sullenly to their baking cases and have a thick layer of icing. Valmai |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Dave MacKenzie Date: 13 Apr 10 - 06:01 AM I used to have muffins for breakfast in London with a fried egg. As for crumpets, they're what the English call pancakes, not to be confused with pancakes, which the English call drop scones, or French pancakes, which the Bretons call krampouezh (actually I think there's two words depending on whether they're made of buckwheat or ordinary flour)! At least nobody's mentioned Muffin the Mule. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: theleveller Date: 13 Apr 10 - 06:11 AM "they're what the English call pancakes, not to be confused with pancakes, which the English call drop scones, or French pancakes" That's a complete load of crepe! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 Apr 10 - 06:19 AM At least nobody's mentioned Muffin the Mule. I believe it became a sexual offence in the 1960's. Hey, banjoman - I've been to Lamberts too. Great fun. Cheers DeG |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: GUEST,Abdul - nearly home. Date: 13 Apr 10 - 06:51 AM Born York, brought up in Dunnington. I agree with Les from where my daughter lives, a teacake has raisins or whatever in it, bits of peel too I recall. I'ts not bread it's a teacake and best toasted. Al |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: GUEST Date: 13 Apr 10 - 07:04 AM Re: the nun's farts comment up there somewhere... A friend of mine who is a patissier catering for the re-enactment market makes Whore's Farts (from a C18th recipe I believe). These are a very sweet semi-aerated meringue, not dissimilar to a cross between meringue and Edinburgh Castle Rock (for all of our trans-pond cousins, ECR is like sweet fruit flavoured chalk). They are small, and of a somewhat amusing shape. She also sells them dipped in chocolate, which go by the non-authentic name of Skiddies. As far as bread is concerned, her orthentic C13th gingerbrede balls (small spheres of breadcrumbs, honey, ginger, chilli and sandalwood powder) are to die for. Hot as Satan's undercrackers, but tastier. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Dave the Gnome Date: 13 Apr 10 - 07:35 AM Hot as Satan's undercrackers, but tastier. The mind boggles as to the breadth and depth of experience held by mudcatters but that one must take the bisuit. (Pun intended) :D (eG) |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: A Wandering Minstrel Date: 13 Apr 10 - 07:36 AM From my own childhood I remember "penny bricks" which were like a miniature cottage loaf, and Malt Bread which was a cross between a teacake and a chunk of road tar with lots of fruit in it and best eaten toasted. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Apr 10 - 10:57 AM Further to cupcakes ~ see 03.20 AM above: as I agreed there with Anne, Lyons cupcakes were indeed flat-topped and iced; but between then & now I have had a coffee & 'cupcake' in a Costa Coffee Shop; and their cupcakes are versions of their [US style] 'muffins', (what Valmai reminds me above are 'fairy-cakes' to us ~ which I had queried & for which reminder many thanx); but iced. All still with me? ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Anne Lister Date: 13 Apr 10 - 11:07 AM I'm still working my way through the definition of crumpets by Dave MacKenzie, which bore no relation to any crumpet I've ever eaten (and I've had a few in my time). No crumpet I've ever met could be confused with any variety of pancake! No one has mentioned Cornish splits yet, either ... Oh, and the pets de nonne (or nun's farts)in France mentioned above were like a small cottage loaf shape made out of choux pastry, iced and filled with either coffee or chocolate confectioners' custard. Or do I have to define "cottage loaf" here too? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Charmion Date: 13 Apr 10 - 11:12 AM A southern French pastry, called "paume de Juif" (Jew's palm), is a heart-shaped confection of puff pastry sprinkled with large sugar crystals. It is made by rolling a large rectangle of pastry from both ends, and cutting the double tube into slices about a centimetre thick. Bake in a fairly hot oven, sprinkle with sugar. I first saw them on the French Riviera in 1972. I have never seen them anywhere else. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Joe Nicholson Date: 13 Apr 10 - 11:25 AM the buns in paper cups which are now sold as muffins were called queen buns when I was a lad. Joe Nicholson |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: GUEST,MadauntieCat Date: 13 Apr 10 - 11:33 AM D el G (for it was I who posted accidentally anonymously about whore's farts and gingerbrede) Satan's nether-wraps are hot, with a distinct whiff of spent gunpowder and random scorchmarks. Generally made of woven asbestos. Cerise. No lace. Wash at gas mark 9 and stand well back. I have fiends in low places, me. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Les from Hull Date: 13 Apr 10 - 12:09 PM Me Mam's fairy cakes had the top middle bit cut out, some butter cream put in and the bit that was cut out cut into two and put back to make the wings. Fairy, wings, see? And me Mam was NEVER wrong! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: MGM·Lion Date: 13 Apr 10 - 12:30 PM LfH ~ yay, my Auntie Lily's fairy cakes were the same as your Mam's, and she was the best cake-maker in our big family [father one of 5, mother one of 8, Auntie Lily her 2nd oldest sister ~ 23 1st cousins]. So, yes indeed, that was what fairy-cakes were right enuff. ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Newport Boy Date: 13 Apr 10 - 12:43 PM @DeG Hot as Satan's undercrackers, but tastier. The mind boggles as to the breadth and depth of experience held by mudcatters but that one must take the bisuit. (Pun intended) I thought it was only the Jesuits ate the bisuits! Phil |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Newport Boy Date: 13 Apr 10 - 03:42 PM OK - to clear things up. South Wales, 1947-8. Bottom of the pile was the cob - almost spherical, less than 3 inches diameter, with a hard crust. Sold for a farthing. Since there were few farthings in circulation by then, we usually bought 2 for a ha'pennny. Next, the bread roll (as opposed to the jam roll or swiss roll). Similar to the cob, but nearly 4 inches diameter and a slightly softer crust. A ha'penny each. There was also the bap - flatter and slightly larger, with a very soft crust, and floured. I don't know what they cost - only the posh people ate them. The cheapest bread was a french stick - usually about a foot long and about 3 inches diameter, with a hard crust. These were tuppence farthing, and since you didn't usually want 2, you had to pay tuppence ha'penny if neither of you had a farthing. The standard 1-1/4lb white loaf came in 2 varieties - sandwich (square section) or tin (a harder crust on a raised top). The latter was best for toasting on a toasting fork in front of the fire. Both varieties sold for fourpence ha'penny. Small white loaves were also available, and Hovis loaves. There was brown bread, but our local shops didn't stock much of it. Teacakes were usually about 8 inches diameter, and had currants - you can't have a teacake without currants! Sliced, toasted, buttered and spread with home-made jam, they were a Saturday treat. We had pikelets - soft, light brown one side, honeycomb the other, they were sold by all the local bakers. The national chains (like Lyons) sold crumpets, which appeared to be the same, but more expensive. Toast them and butter the honeycomb side - you're not allowed jam on pikelets. Oh - and I don't want any nonsense about Welsh cakes - they're bakestones, plain and simple. Here endeth Phil's bread gospel!! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: Rob Naylor Date: 13 Apr 10 - 04:07 PM Well you're still wrong about teacakes! You got the size about right (though I reckon 6in is closer than 8 in). But if they've got currants in them, they're currant teacakes. The clue's in the name!!! Normal brown or white teacakes are just bread. I believe they originated in Yorkshire and only the currant variety was "exported" out of the county, so all you people who had the misfortune to be born outside [insert deity of choice or atheistic epithet]'s own county dropped the fructoid identifier and are just wrong, wrong, wrong :-P |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: GUEST Date: 13 Apr 10 - 04:32 PM Well I've lived north, south and west of Yorkshire, and teacakes always have had currants in. Going by the tradition, Yorkshire folk are just too tight to pay the extra for the fruit. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Bread Rolls From: GUEST,Pete Date: 13 Apr 10 - 04:33 PM Re Muffin the Mule. The same act of parliament also outlawed Noggin the Nog. Anyone else for mucky euphamisms? (Is that spelling correct? It looks a bit dodgy). |
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