BS: Can the LibDems Win?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:05 AM

91 seats now lost by labour.......91!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:08 AM

I can't remember, Jim. I was but a lad and didn't know about these things.

But I remember a comment about someone lying there chewing the pillow. And a whole load of us going into histerics about Palethorpe sausages.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:17 AM

"Gordon Brown was electd as an MP by his consituency, and elected as Leader by the Labour Party under their established election process. He was as 'elected' a Prime Minister as any other."

Exactly so! The Prime Minister is the leader of whichever party is in power and if the leader changes then the new leader simply becomes PM. Apart from Brown the last one to get the job that way was John Major.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:36 AM

In Scotland the SNP had 20% of the vote and 6 seats. The Lib-Dems had 19% and 11 seats.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:42 AM

Tories are 20 seats short of a majority....20 seats!!!!! What a washout for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Emma B
Date: 07 May 10 - 11:57 AM

Newspaper allegiances round-up:

The Daily Telegraph - Conservatives
The Sunday Telegraph - Conservatives
The Sun - Conservatives
Daily Mail - Conservatives
Daily Express - Conservatives
News of the World - Conservatives
The Times - Conservatives
The Sunday Times - Conservative
The Economist - Conservatives
The Mail on Sunday - Conservatives
The Financial Times - Conservatives

The Mirror - Labour, but urging tactical voting for Lib Dems

The Independent on Sunday - Liberal Democrats
The Guardian - Liberal Democrats
The Observer - Liberal Democrats

And the Tories still couldn't get an overall majority?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 12:13 PM

"Consider how many seats PR would give to the BNP - just think on that nightmare and waste of government time!!"

They would be as significant in westminster as they are in Europe.

ie ... irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 May 10 - 12:16 PM

NO, they can`t.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 01:06 PM

No, Thorpe was the shafter. His little friend "Bunnies" was the pillowbiter. That was the point of my comment. Still, at least Eton, Westminster and St Pauls should understand that sort of power sharing.

"Dave" started his campaign with a 28 point lead in the polls. Some mandate he got! Er, that's the other sort, not man-date.

The financial meltdown resulted from trickle-down (Thatcher/Reagan) economic policies and Brown and Darling (and Obama) were well on the way to a solution and now the cut-now idiots will undo all the good done. How stupid are the electorate?

Finally (for this rant) there is I suppose a silver lining in that ID cards will vanish, and HIPs will vanish - both of which were bloody stupid ideas. But stupid is better than the malice of the conservative axe, which will cut only where it does the most harm to the poor and the least to the rich - as always.

As the song has it - "Ain't it all a bleeding shame?"

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Teribus
Date: 07 May 10 - 01:26 PM

Can the Lib-Dems Win - NO

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:46 PM

The lib dems have won.

They will choose the party who enact PR straight away.

At the next election their share of power will increase by about a hundred votes.

Thats the liberal holy grail.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 07 May 10 - 02:59 PM

Hi

Strictly speaking Brown was not elected as leader of the Labour party. He was the only candidate as none of the other Labour ministers stood against him.

John Major was elected by his party to be Leader : after two preliminary elections the other two contestants withdrew.


Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 10 - 03:42 PM

Therefore by the rules of the relevant erection, GB was elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:37 PM

So labour have lost almost 100 seats - that's almost 100, in case anyone can't hear - thats almost 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 07 May 10 - 06:46 PM

Yes, and the Spawn of She-Devil Thatcher STILL can't get a majority. That's NO MAJORITY therefore no mandate to form a government - what a bunch of losers!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bugsy
Date: 07 May 10 - 08:46 PM

A question from the southern hemisphere,

Why is the election always held on a Thursday?

Down here in AUS we have all our elections on a Saturday giving everyone more time to get to the polling booths.

I heard that some of the stations over there were inundated and had to close early. (I would guess that would be because most people were at work and came after).

Just wondered,

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: s&r
Date: 08 May 10 - 05:12 AM

Polling stations close at 2200. Some polling stations still had queues at that time. Those people who had not been given their voting form by 2200 couldn't cast a vote.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Emma B
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:55 AM

Bugsy,

On election day broadcasters in the UK are required to impose an almost total blackout on any strictly political discussion commencing an hour before the polling staions open until they close and certainly can't discuss the results of any early exit polls

This leaves a bit of a vacumn and, after the effects of the weather on turn out have been exhausted, someone inevitably asks the question why are elections conventionally held on a Thursday?

The only 'explanation' that the BBC were able to offer was that, as people were tradionally pad a weekly wage on a Friday, this was the best way of securing a sober electorate!

Another often quoted reason is -
'the government is formed on a Friday, and then everyone has a weekend to absorb the change and for the government to prepare for work.'

That doesn't always work either :)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:14 AM

"Polling stations close at 2200. Some polling stations still had queues at that time. Those people who had not been given their voting form by 2200 couldn't cast a vote."

There was a bit more to it that that though. There seems to not have been enough facilities (ie stations or booths or whatever) as people were seemingly queuing for up to an hour and a half. And at least one polling station ran out of ballot papers mid evening meaning people who had turned up in plenty time to vote couldn't do so because the organisers made a balls up.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:26 AM

Yes Allan.

Besides, there can be no excuses for a 21st century democracy if dedicated voters who have queued for houers in the rain to vote are told they can't come in.

In this day and age, people should be able to come at 9.55 and get their vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bugsy
Date: 08 May 10 - 11:37 AM

So what is yuur opinion on compulsory voting. We have it here in Aus and I for one think it works.

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 11:45 AM

There are certainly good arguments to support the idea - mainly sentreing on the sacrifices that have been made in the name of democracy by soldiers, suffragettes and numerous other civil rights activists.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 08 May 10 - 11:55 AM

I would vote in a referendum for compulsory voting.

Clegg appears to be holding Labour and Conservative to ransom. I don't think it is going to work.

We might just as well hold another election.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 12:10 PM

He needs to be careful that Brown doesn't call his bluff.

Which is more important to him - PR or getting Brown out ...

... and more importantly - which is more important to Liberal voters ...

They will feel betrayed if he doesn't accept Browns offer of an immediate referendum.

The Next Government will be short lived whatever happens - best to make sure that when the next electon is called, that it is a fair one.

If it's called in 3 days it will be First Past the Post and they will lose this wonderful opportunity to force through electoral reform.

I can't see how the liberals have any other choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 10 - 12:39 PM

A lot of beefing about proportional representation - now how exactly will this work please?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 May 10 - 01:19 PM

there are several different forms of p r,one method is the single transferable vote.why dont you google it

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 08 May 10 - 03:33 PM

It would probably work a bit like the Scottish version (Mixed Member System).
There would be X number of constituency seats and Regions where there would be X number of seats to allocate on a % vote for each party within that region.
You would get 2 votes on each ballot paper. One for the person you want to vote for (Constituency, just like now) and the second is a vote for the party you want to be elected (Regional).
The regional seats would be allocated on the number of votes a party receives within that region based on a %.
How all of that is agreed, I wouldn't know

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:37 PM

Sounds like the local council system to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:43 PM

I wouldn't know.
However, I can see how people like the BNP might get seats. Not good.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:55 PM

PR is the system used in most of Europe to elect their governments, including Ireland, Germany, Italy etc etc.

If you don't know what it is that says nothing about how good it is, only how ignorant you are for not being aware of one of the most fundamental political issues in British constitutional politics.

As a quick aside, in the local elections on Friday, the BNP lost ALL their seats.

In Barking in Dagenham, their big hope this year, they used to have 3 seats. They now have NONE.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:00 PM

Is this a coded message to start the campaign for PR in anticipation of a referendum on electoral reform? ...

Cleggs Speech to Party Faithful ...

... Or is he fobbing them off with a half truth? ...

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:08 PM

That's not a "speech to party faithful" - that crowd doesn't trust him. They are there to try to stop him doing a deal with the Tories that sells out electoral reform.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:10 PM

"It would probably work a bit like the Scottish version (Mixed Member System)."

No in the Scottish system you have one normal vote for a constituency MP then another vote for your preferred party and members are then elected from party lists depending on the figures of total votes cast divided by the number of seats you have already - then the calculation is done again and again. Both the Labour and Lib Dems proposals are based on you putting the candidates in order of preference.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Emma B
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:10 PM

28 thousand people who don't want to be 'CON-DEMed'
here

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:23 PM

Nick Clegg strikes me as being a Glib-Dem... "I won't be voting for the pretty boy" was how an old lady I was talking to on the eve of the election referred to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:43 PM

"That's not a "speech to party faithful" - that crowd doesn't trust him"

They are party faithful, looking for reassurance that he too is remaining party faithful, and not selling out to another party.

The question I asked was - is he giving that reassurance or is he just fobbing them off?

I don't see how he can sell them out. It would mean the end of his career in westminster.

He could never claim again to represent the liberals and no voter would ever trust him again.

In the process he would also condemn the liberals.

He has no choice but to press cameron for a referendum on electoral reforem, or to accept Browns offer.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 07:48 PM

And far from Being a pretty boy, he is playing a very clever diplomatic game.

By Negotiating with Cameron he has forced Brown to put his concessions on the table before any negotiations with labour have even begun.

In addition, he is demonstrating how mature politicians should behave. Instead of entrenching themselves into hostile adversarial positions and taking a defensive/aggressive approach to politics, he is insisting on consensus politics and is giving his ear to the leader who is best able to behave constructively.

When PR comes in, that is the type of politics that our MP's will have to learn to engage in.

And it is about time too.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 May 10 - 01:30 AM

"I won't be voting for the pretty boy" was how an old lady I was talking to on the eve of the election referred to him."

Well there's an intelligent and carefully considered decision for you. Only slightly more gormless than "I'm voting for the XYZ party because that's who my parents always voted for".

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 10 - 04:13 AM

Oh well, I'm off to our polo club to get an update on the Faces reunion!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 May 10 - 04:59 AM

Keep an eye out for horse-shit, Bozo, there'll be plenty of it coming from those horses-arses the toffs have for mouths.
And it'll be the working-class Mucky-Toffs like you that they'll be shitting on. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 10 - 06:29 AM

It's OK I've got brown wellingtons - with a "94 seats lost" pattern on them!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 10 - 06:57 AM

Does another bit say 'and we STILL can't get in power'?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:00 AM

What would anyone want with Browns wellingtons? ...

... And why would anyone wear them to a game of polo?


OK Bonzo.


The Tories ARE in power, You ARE a millionaire and you really DO play polo.


Aren't 'oo kwevver.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:16 AM

Just a quick comment from the left side of the Pond.


Don't think I've seen this on the thread yet.   What I've read is that this election comes under the heading of:   "Be careful what you wish for"---since anybody who "wins" this election will have to cut the budget substantially---with a lot of pain for somebody, probably for a lot of people.   That party or parties will then as a result lose a lot of popularity.

So any politician who wants a successful career in politics would actually be better off out of power at this point.

Is that a reasonable statement?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:50 AM

Not Quite the accurate overview.

Certainly that is the view of the tories, that substantial cuts will have to be made straight away, but labour disagree and claim that they would make cuts more gradually on the basis that cutting too much too soon could be to starve the economy of oxygen as it were.

There are also different approaches on the matter of where to make cuts, and who to tax.

In Short, yes all parties will make enemies of some sort, but they will make different enemies.

The Libs and Labour are more likely to make enemies in the financial sector, while the tories are likely to punish the most vulnerable in society.

On the subject of analyisis and predictions ...

I'm starting to wonder whether the libs might jump in with the tories after all.

The language that the libs and tories are using suggests that they are moving into a new phase of negotiation and that they may be comng near to making a deal.

I can handle this as long as there is a referendum on PR.

If Clegg jumps in with Cameron and this commitment is not made then he can kiss his career goodbye and the libs can kiss their chances goodbye for years to come and they will be known as the party who betrayed their faithful.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:51 AM

I've emailed the LibDems. I've been disenfranchised twice. Once by moving to a safe Conservative seat which will never, never change, and now by having my LibDem vote converted. Unless he gets PR out of it. Which I doubt. Anyone remember TBlair promising electoral reform before 97?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 May 10 - 08:04 AM

But everybody agrees that cuts will be made?   So somebody--and probably a lot of people-- will be unhappy.   It sounds like we agree on that.

If the Liberal Democrats and Labour would be making enemies among the financial sector but not among the general electorate, are you implying that the budget problem can be dealt with just by raising taxes, and not by cutting the budgets of any government programs?

This is obviously also germane to the US situation, since we have the same issue to grapple with. I've just heard that in the US, Secretary Gates says that bureaucracy is 40% of the Department of Defense budget--which itself is huge-- and that therefore deep cuts in DOD could be made.   I would think the UK does not have the same option since the Ministry of Defense is a much smaller part of the government than military expenditures are in the US.

Is this accurate?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 May 10 - 09:07 AM

We are told there are 650 seats making the winning cut off at 326. If we take the 5 Sinn Fein seats away (they always abstain) and a further 4 which include the Speaker and his three deputies who are traditionally neutral, we have a new overall majority figure of 322.
Lib, labour and the 9 Nationalist MPs add up to 324 whereas the Tory 306 plus 7/8 Northern Irish MPs only make 314 max.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 10 - 10:57 AM

Ron - Like every administration in the world, I suspect, cuts can be made and they can be minimised. But where is the news in that? The media will only report on cuts to child care, education, health and anything else that really matters. Cutting beurocracy is not news so very little will be said of it, even if it does the trick. No-one wants to know if billions are saved on over funded management but cut the free coffee for the workers and it gets you into the news.

There is an old joke - Welshman in the case of the UK. Chose your own after reading. Welshman complaining to a friend. "I looked after all the local old people for years. Shopping for them. Fixing their house. But did they call me Jones the carer? No."

"I created some masterpieces in the local park. Floral displays, beautiful lawns, paintings on the side of the bowling pavilion but did they call me Jones the gardener or Jones the artist? No."

"I only shagged one bloody sheep..."

Moral - Only bas news makes th eheadlines:-)

Oh - and I am getting pretty pissed off with politcs!

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 01:29 PM

The Lib Dems have won. They have managed to get Gordon Brown to resign.

So he has got his bum sucking way with only 50 odd seats.

So it is highly unlikely that there will be a Con/LidDem amalgamation.

6 months time the cons will wipe the board as the Lab/Lib Dem come under so much pressure