BS: Can the LibDems Win?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 01:45 PM

Obviously Gordon Brown was going to resign, however the manoeuvrings went. He'd failed to win the election. It was just a matter of getting the right timing for the announcement.

Touch wood.

Either there'll be a LibLab coalition bringing in electoral reform - or the Tories are going to have to come up with a deal that provides the same reform.

Either way it should mean an end to the risk of an administration dominated by the right wing of the Tory Party for the foreseeable future.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:11 PM

>>foreseeable future<<

Short term future.

Has Scotland got a place for Gordon the Scot.

We want an English PM who will look after us rather than the Scots, Welsh and Irish.

Brown has sold England down the Swannee

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:16 PM

I will give 10 out of 10 for Cleggs abilty to speak excellent Dutch. It is very impressive.

Click on this link. http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/935991/b3159ba3/nick_clegg_spreekt_prima_nederlands.html

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:28 PM

Interesting isn't it that even Brown himself - almost gone, time for another celebration!!!, has now said that labour came a distinct second in the General Election - and yet his own staunch sheep on this site do not appear to be like minded!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:47 PM

Of course they came second - but so what? If there is a Lab/LibDem coalition,that represents fifteen million voters as against ten million for the Tories.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:54 PM

Yes Bonzo.

Poor Labour ...

... Back in Government again

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:57 PM

HANG ON FOLKS ......

"Senior Tory George Osborne said they would offer the Lib Dems a
referendum on changing the voting system."

It ain't over yet ...

... one tail wagging two dogs!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:59 PM

Yes Bonzo.

Poor Labour ...

... Back in Government again

I don't mind in the least, Brown is going!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:09 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs - PM
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:59 PM

>"Yes Bonzo.Poor Labour ...... Back in Government again I don't mind in the least, Brown is going!!!".

Hi bonzo

Your fixation on getting rid of Brown mirrors your party's policy.

They became transfixed with removing Brown that they could mention little elase as their policies during the run in to the election. They took their eye off the ball and they look as if their short-mindedness has come back to haunt them.

Osborne's only comments made here in his constituency when asked during his canvassing tour about how they planned to cut the deficit was " we will get rid of Brown".

Don't forget Brown has said he will resign...but he hasn't said WHEN.....hope this time the Libdems read the small print unlike the Tories....lol

Be careful what you wish for.....next time it may be Cameron's head Clegg will be after.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:12 PM

I don't think we've seen the end of Brown yet - watch this space!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:29 PM

Oh no. Brown is a slimeball

Subject: RE: BSlot of people : Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:36 PM

As John McCain might have put it, Gordon Brown is a decent man with whom a have some serious political differences. So is David Cameron and so is Nick Clegg.

Couldn't we dispense this this stupid stuff about "arse-lickng" and "slimeballs" and so forth, from any political direction?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:40 PM

Thats fine McGrath
Stop having a go at anybody who doesn't like or support Brown or Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:49 PM

Yes McGrath - I'm with you all the way.

We are witnessing one of the most exciting and fascinating constitutional events in British history, not least because it looks like being the last FPTP election in British Politics.

And yet the best some on here can manage is to chant a few tacky footbal slogans before contradicting themselves under the table.

As for the Mystery Guest and his comment "You are talking Bollocks McGrath" ...

... actually, no he isn't. More than half of the votes cast in this election were for Parties left of centre, who supported PR.

Less than 40% of he votes supported right wing politics.

LIB/LAB represents the liberal majority.

As will continue to be the case when PR is introduced, which will now definitely happen as both tory and labour are offering it.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 10 May 10 - 04:25 PM

What utter tripe you labourites come out with.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 04:38 PM

"Utter tripe" - that's a very powerful argument from The Smiler.
...............................................

Con Lib Dem 17.5 million
Lab Lib Dem 15.4 million

And Labour Conservative would be 19.5 million

Add in the Nazis and UKIP and it'd go up to 21 million.

But it's preferable for parties allying with each other to have political attitudes in common. That's true enough for Labour and the LibDems. It isn't for the other alliances I indicated there.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 10 - 05:34 PM

I cannot and do not accept that "Dave" is in any way a decent man, nor can I accept it about any other conservative politician, or most other conservatives. It is very simple. Should the rich be made richer by the poor?

We really do need the guillotine.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:45 PM

Plenty of people in the Labour Party who don't have many worries about the rich being made richer by the poor. And it's perfectly possible to be a conservative and long for a fairer society.

All political parties are pretty imperfect, in their policies and in their members.

Mandelson was less guarded about it than most when he talked about how "we are intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich", but it seems evident he was speaking the truth about how his colleagues saw things.

Best way to shoot yourself in the foot is to lose your temper. Hitting the target requires that you keep calm.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:51 PM

NO, it is not possible to be a conservative and take any steps towards a fairer society. It is a contradiction in terms.

The Lord Mandelson moves in mysterious ways, but he was probably doing two things when he said that. First, he was trying to avoid alienating the grabbies. Second, he was laying a base for his own get rich quick schemes.

One of the main problems with the New Labour party is that it tolerates the rich stealing from the poor.

Aux barricades!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 11 May 10 - 03:35 PM

Looks like Lab have well & truly f****d things up!

There's gonna be one helluva price to pay for this, I remember feeling just the same way when that b****y woman got in in 1979 (b****y depressed) and boy, did I have good reason to be!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 11 May 10 - 04:07 PM

Can the libs win?

Well - they're in government for the first time in ... how long? ...

Roll on PR- then whatever happens ... happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 May 10 - 04:13 PM

celebration!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:12 PM

Judas Clegg. Wave goodbye for ever to being seen as a credible alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:29 PM

Roll on PR

Yes indeed. But there is no prospect of it coming. And the chances of it's non-proportional cousin AV getting approved in a referendum are reduced by the likelihood that both the Tories and Labour will be throwing massive resources into campaigning for a NO vote when it comes.

Touch wood that their efforts fail, and Tactical Voting can be a thing of the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 11 May 10 - 07:33 PM

I disagree,

I think the tories have been backed into a corner.

I bloody hope Clegg hasn't wasted his opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 May 10 - 09:06 PM

Well, it looks like a miracle that anything was accomplished given the lack of any constitution to spell out procedures.

Weird, I always thought the UK was a "constitutional monarchy." It's really hard to read the tea leaves from our side of the great pond.

Good luck in muddling through this one.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 12 May 10 - 01:52 AM

"Well, it looks like a miracle that anything was accomplished given the lack of any constitution to spell out procedures.

Weird, I always thought the UK was a "constitutional monarchy." It's really hard to read the tea leaves from our side of the great pond."

The UK does have a constitution but it is not in single rigid written down form as much as being based on recognised procedure and president. This makes it more complicated but also more flexible. The procedure is that the incumbant remains PM until someone is in a position to do the job - and it appears that has happened after only 5 days which is actually quite quick considering it was over the weekend too. Theoretically the monarch has the power to invite someone to try and form a govt but in practice the palace does everything in its power to keep completely out of politics so she is only going through symbolic motions. So yes we are a constitutional monarchy where the monarch is our symbolic Head of State. She is not a politician and her job is to stay out of politics and basically do as she is expected. The convention is also that the politicians act in a way not to risk the need of putting the monarch (who is after all unelected)in any potential situation where she becomes involved in politics in any way.
It may seem airy-fairy to folk used to a written document, and there are plenty folk in the UK who would like to see a written constitution, but the reason it is still as it is and not a great hot issue is because by and large it kind of works. If the monarch actually became involved in politics then the fact she is unelected would become a hot issue hence the reluctance of the palace to get involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 May 10 - 02:38 AM

The answer to the question is no. No, that's it.

Best wishes

L in C#

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 May 10 - 02:48 AM

Glasses half empty???

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: MikeL2
Date: 12 May 10 - 05:52 AM

hi

In answer to the original OP question the answer must be YES !!

They have acheived a Deputy Prime Minister Post and at least 5 more in the Cabinet....

Yet they lost seats and perfomed far worse in expectation in the polls
than any other party.

Cameron must be very desperate....

Cheers

MikeL2 scratching my head in disbelief.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:11 AM

Les - How is the answer No if the Liberals are in Government?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:18 AM

As I think I said earlier - I believe they have won - Possibly the only ones1

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:23 AM

I don't think the Lib Dems have won.

They have sold themselves down the swannie and will never be trusted again. I beleive in the long term, they have done themselves a lot of damage.

Has Clegg done this for financial greed or power?

Cameron must have stayed in the barrel longer than Brown

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Stu
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:28 AM

The spider and the fly.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 10 - 06:39 AM

Lib Dems are in Government - but they are not in Power. Having being swallowed, they can now prepare to be digested. Perhaps "inside Government" might be a better way to express it...

Will you walk into my parlour?" said the Spider to the Fly,
'Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to shew when you are there."
Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again."

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Emma B
Date: 12 May 10 - 07:16 AM

I don't believe the Lib Dems have 'won' either - apologies for length....

So Clegg is deputy leader - a role described accurately by Wiki as

"The office of the Deputy Prime Minister is not a permanent position. It exists only at the discretion of the Prime Minister.

The office is normally considered as a honorific title.

Unlike analogous offices in some other nations, including the United States Vice Presidency, a British Deputy Prime Minister possesses no special powers above those of his or her ministry.
He or she does not assume the duties and powers of the Prime Minister in the latter's absence or illness, such as the powers to seek a dissolution of parliament, appoint peers or brief the sovereign.
He does not automatically succeed the Prime Minister, should the latter be incapacitated or resign from the leadership of his or her political party"


Charles Kennedy told a fringe event at the Lib Dems' annual conference last year that the Tories' hostility to the European Union was "one of several straws that would break any camel's back".
"I just don't see how we could make common ground with a Cameron-Hague administration on the European issue," he said. "I mean pigs would fly."

At the same time when a hung parliament looked a distinct possibility a poll for the BBC revealed that fewer than one in five Lib Dem activists said that they would want to see Nick Clegg team up with the Conservatives in the event of a hung parliament after the next general election


And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?
Mark 8.36


Julian Glover English journalist and partner of former Conservative politician Matthew Parris sums up one view….

"Politics is about the pursuit of power"

"The onus is on Liberal Democrats. . They are close to it. They must take it."

He acknowledges that
"Clegg might have to accept that some Lib Dems, finding their party in bed with the Tories, would desert to Labour"
But argues that
"…the purifying departure of social democrats from a liberal party would be no bad thing"


From 1979 to 1988 David Alton (now a peer) was a Liberal MP and a Liberal Democrat MP until 1997; he served at various times as spokesman on the Environment, Home Affairs, Northern Ireland and as Chief Whip

He observes….

"First, the unedifying procrastination of the past few days has risked discrediting the concept of power-sharing.
The haggling vividly underlines the importance of going into an election with a clear idea of who will work with whom and on what basis.
Much of the electorate who took part in last week's election will have been left with a bad taste in their mouths – and whatever the merits of today's agreement it will not have been what millions of people thought that they were voting for last week.

Nick Clegg, however, has conveyed the impression or wanting to run with the hares and the hounds – and this has left many voters confused.
He has some way to go to convince that the Lib-Con deal is anything but a marriage of convenience.

Philosophically and ideologically the Lib Dems – since their merger with former Labour Party members – have largely abandoned classical Liberalism and opted for a social democratic paradigm of society

The prospect of a Liberal-Conservative axis genuinely never occurred to most of them, which is why it will lead to internal dissent, rupture and resignations"

He refers to previous disagreements over coalition parties which catastrophically ruptured the old Liberal Party and continues

"Liberal Democrats now embarking on their new electoral dalliance with the Conservatives need to recall these precedents and recognise that expediency -based on deal making alone – rather than a genuine meeting of minds on political principles – will end in division and tears."

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 12 May 10 - 07:29 AM

Read the reasons why people are joining the Labour Party.

Why They Joined ...

Labour will be back in power by a landslide in 5 years.

Clegg has blown it.

It will dawn on him soon - if it hasn't already.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 May 10 - 07:31 AM

Lox have you no work to do??

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 12 May 10 - 07:37 AM

How about you Bonzo?

You seem to be very busy on the mudcat yourself ...

... I thought you were 'tending' to a client ...

I've just started a 5 and a half month holiday.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 May 10 - 08:03 AM

Alan-

Thanks for the explanation of "constitutional monarchy" in the UK. The only "monarchs" we abide over here are butterflies but we do have some ferocious spiders, and other political "beasties" which are much too fierce to mention.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 May 10 - 08:05 AM

Client at the door - 6:43. Back online 7:31. Plenty enough time for a massage. Even with the 'special' treatments...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Lox
Date: 12 May 10 - 08:07 AM

By the way Bonzo,

I may or may not be wasting my time on here, but I am engaged in discussing the thread topic, so at least there is a reason for me to be here.

You appear to be spending all your time on this thread with the sole purpose of criticizing people who are on this thread.

If you think contributing to this thread is such a waste of time, why are you doing it?

Did it escape your attention that as a participant on this thread, any 'clever' comments you may make about contributing to it refer to you too?

I think you should apply to be a mascot for the tories at the next session of parliament.

You could sit up in the Gallery and clap your hands together in your own special 'hit and miss' style, chanting "Kam-wun Kam-wun" while they discuss the detail of the european constitution.

The truth is Bonzo that you don't possess the wit to participate in any kind of meaningful discussion, much less run a multi million pound business, and the nearest you will ever get to 'playing Polo' will be trying to eat a mint sweet without soaking your bib in drool while your mum cleans you up and dresses you in some fresh underpants.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 May 10 - 09:29 AM

'The UK does have a constitution but it is not in single rigid written down form as much as being based on recognised procedure and president'

We don't have a president. Did you mean 'precedent'? Makes more sense, and less confusing to the Americans!   :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 10:16 AM

I am just watching the 2 love birds talking to the press.

My first thought is that Cameron is glaring at Clegg everytime he answers a question, as if to say "Don't you dare say anything out of place".

They are both intelligent people and I wonder how long it will be before they have one almighty bust up based on their own individual desires and determination for their individual parties.

How long before they go to the country?

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 01:34 PM

I do like this LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKP89Bi8EFM&feature=related

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 10 - 02:17 PM

"We don't have a president. Did you mean 'precedent'? Makes more sense, and less confusing to the Americans!   :-) :-) "

Aye thanks. Speling wis niver ma strang piont.

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:00 PM

There is much gratuitous and unwarranted abuse here. The three leaders have risen to the occasion and I see no reason for so much cynicism. The Con-LibDem agreement suggests we may expect a programme arguably more progressive in terms of social justice and civil liberties than we would have had if Labour had won outright. Obviously the government will soon be spectacularly unpopular, as would have been the fate of any other government, because of the austerity that is about to hit us. But I expect this coalition to hold together for the full five-year term.

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:01 PM

Myne neever! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:13 PM

This notion of a Conservative Liberal Democrat coalition must seem a bit confusing to our American members...

Subject: RE: BS: Can the LibDems Win?
From: GUEST,The Smiler
Date: 12 May 10 - 03:26 PM

:-)