Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 11:05 AM

This thread reminds me of the great contribution sheep have made to the continuance of traditional music, specially in the UK. Being out in the pasture all day with not a lot to do has led many a good ram or ewe to while away the hours singing songs by Robbie Burns or composing their own unique variations of Mary Hamilton, Little Musgrave, etc. And they usually don't do a Ba-a-a-a-a-hhhd job at it either! If it were possible to persuade the local Irish and Scottish lads to stop harassing these poor animals in the dead of night, I should think we'd get to hear even more good trad swelling up joyfully from the meadows.

Boring? NEVER! Let's hear a big round of applause for our wooly friends who have given their all to keep the music alive!

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Toby Ashton
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 10:38 AM

I find it interesting that both Damien Barber and Jon Boden both cite and clearly display the influence of PB on them. As much as I really like and admire Damien's singing I really can't abide Boden's affected bleating.

TA

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 09:22 AM

Damien Barber says: "One of my main inspirations in folk song is Peter Bellamy who I had the honour of knowing for a couple of years before his untimely death in 1991. Peter's nickname for me was 'The Demon Barber'".

Check out Damien Barber and Mike Wilson's version of "On Board a 98" here.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 08:48 AM

Perhaps 'polite' is the wrong word, but I find that when Jon Boden lets rip he often does so in ways that sound fairly mannered and predictable; to my ear he sounds more raw and unprocessed when he's doing quieter stuff (e.g. today's AFSAD, "Deep Blue Sea"). Bellamy's delivery, at least on his later stuff, was *all* mannered - which meant that, once you'd tuned into that style, the voice could sound extraordinarily raw and powerful. It's an odd trick but a good one; I wonder if he'd listened to a lot of Beefheart in between the Sam Larner.

When I ask myself what advice Bellamy would have given newish singers like me, I suspect he would have told us to sod off. On the other hand, when I ask myself what example Bellamy set, the words "de l'audace, et encore de l'audace, et toujours de l'audace" come to mind.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 07:33 AM

I think we'll be waiting a long time for the next Peter Bellamy - just as we'll be waiting a long time for the next Frank Zappa, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Sun Ra, Miles Davis etc. etc. The age of the great Individual Traditional Restructuralist is past. Besides which, Folk was always a matter of a few exceptions proving rules anyway; such a shame PB never took his craft to a more discerning audience who might have understod it better. These days I hear a lot of great singers in singarounds - such as Crow Sister, John Jocys in Chorlton, Dave Peters in Preston and Piers Cawley in Newcastle (himself a commited Bellamist with a repertoir to match) - but after what happened to PB, I doubt any professional folkie would dare push the envelope so far again.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:59 AM

Very diplomatic Mr Cringe - bring your spoons and you are in

L in C#

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:54 AM

Any fule no the Beech Band are in a class of their own!

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:36 AM

I'd like to draw your attention to The Beech Band who not only tear up the envelope of dancin' music but sniff the glue off the seal first. Bigger, often twice as big, as Bellowhead and working towards a stranger collection of instruments.

Forget 'New Wave of English Country Dance Music' listen out for 'Acoustic Metal Dancin' - What would PB made of that?

L in C#

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 07:15 PM

I wouldn't call Jon Boden's delivery "polite"... I'd say he's one of the few around who isn't, and more power to his elbow for that. Raymond's bang on the money with Fay, Tim and Damien too. I'd add Mike Wilson to the list - his album with Damien Barber is a corker. I'd like to think he'd have approved of the wonderful Alasdair Roberts, too. He's one of the few current artists whose output inspires in me the same sort of devotion I have for PB's output.

However... too much bright young trad (TM) sticks doggedly to the limitations of the envelope rather than tearing it up. I think we're going to see some changes to this over the next couple of years. Elle Osborne, Jackie Oates, Emily Portman, Sam Lee and Lisa Knapp, for example, have far too much about them to be content to be mere Radio Two fodder...

I think we're still waiting for the next Bellamy, though.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 06:06 PM

I think he'd have found Jon Boden a bit polite (although I'm sure he would have liked "A Folk Song A Day"). I'm not sure who there is out there now who has Bellamy's rawness or attack as a singer.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 02:35 PM

He'd have been delighted, too, with Damien Barber's current eminence, and I think Fay Hield would have ticked the right boxes for him. He'd have loved Tim Eriksen to bits. Who else?

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Brian Peters
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 11:24 AM

I remember an interview somewhere in which Peter opined that 'clonedom', whether the clones were of Martin Carthy or himself, was something he found embarrassing and musically sterile. What he wanted was for singers to listen to the kind of stuff he had listened to, whether Sam Larner, Robert Johnson or American Baptist hymns (he once made me a cassette boldy titled in his own hand 'REAL Sacred Harp', that contained some really wild singing) and form their own style based on those models. As he'd done himself.

At the same time he was generous in his praise of any younger singers he could find, who were interested in traditional song, so I'm sure he'd have been thrilled to bits with some of the present crop. Jon Boden has all of his attack, and the high notes, but is no clone, even when singing Bellamy material.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 05:47 AM

"This is generally supposed to reflect a left-wing bias, but in context it is, in truth, a celebration of the continuity of serfdom under feudalism..."

Well, yes, perhaps. Others see (and sing) it differently, and I think the point here is that Kipling is amenable to ambiguity in a way that is rarely acknowledged. The trouble with thinking about the Kipling-Bellamy settings as a corpus, as we inevitably do, is that it encourages us to see them as presenting a distinct and consistent agenda. We don't think of folk songs that way. Because we don't know of the original maker's identity or views, we tend to see a folk song through the prism of our own individual sensibility. Nowt wrong with that! My guess is that if we encountered a Kip-Bell song and thought it traditional or anonymous, the same process would take place. But tell someone "This is a song by Rudyard Kipling" and a set of expectations (or prejudices) clicks instantly into place.

Yesterday I was watching a vid of PB being interviewed by Eddie Upton around 1990. It's interesting – and perhaps germane to this discussion – that PB says here of Kipling (I'm paraphrasing from memory) "I don't by any means think all of his work was good, "and "Some of his work contains opinions that I personally detest." Detest is the word he uses here. Now that's food for thought...

In the same interview – remember, this is about 1990 – he declares himself thoroughly pessimistic about the emergence of a new generation of singers. "They'll come, but probably neither you nor I will be around to see it." He was, of course, 50% correct in that assumption: as far as I know, Eddie's still hale and active.

But here's a game everyone can play. Supoose PB was still around. Who among the new cohort of singers would he rate? John Boden may be the most obvious contender, but what would PB have made of someone who is so obviously and unrepentently in his debt stylistically and in terms of repertoire? "He's great – he reminds me of me!" Maybe it's more complicated than that...

Form an orderly queue...

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 04:49 AM

PB's politics were never directly expressed in the rhetoric of song, though if we take the human sentiments (though never sentimental!) found in The Transports together with his setting of Kipling's Humanist Hymn A Pilgrim's Way then I think we might be getting the picture. But what of that other Kipling/Bellamy oft-sung masterpiece The Land? This is generally supposed to reflect a left-wing bias, but in context it is, in truth, a celebration of the continuity of serfdom under feudalism with the faceless Hobden being a mere type, a patronising caricature of tradition rather than a flesh & blood individual. The irony of him somehow owning the land only because it is comprised of his dead forefathers is a bitter one. A bleak testimony indeed, but wholly analogous to the actual condition of Folklore as a subject perceived by the feudal masters of their lesser subjects.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:22 PM

Political or not, a song should be well-crafted with knowledgeable writers doing the service.
Whether it's a Left-wing song or a political song is irrelevant. The question to be asked is
"Is it a good song" with imagery, context, a sense of form, appeal to the senses and not generalizing, stanzaic consistency (either uniform or not), subject matter that reach people,
and not inane preaching but "showing".

Eric Bogle, Stan Rogers, Woody Guthrie, Leadbelly, Pete Seeger, Tom Paxton, Tom Lehrer and occasionally a song crafted for a rally or demonstration can be useful (though probably not for a concert).

There must be plenty of good songwriters in the UK who I don't know about.

I found Rosselson to be a little too glib and clever (without being clever like Tom Lehrer).

Peggy's songs "Engineer" and a couple of others are very good especially when she doesn't feel obliged to "screech" her message with a shrill voice. The lady can sing and write.

Don't forget Jean Ritchie, "Black Waters", "The L. and N. Don't Stop Here Anymore".
These are terrific songs and have a political intent.

Expressing political intent in a song is fine as long as it's a good song (see definition above).

I think it's perfectly fine and important to rewrite lyrics to traditional songs to reflect contemporary times provided that there is an understanding of the source material.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 05:06 AM

A blogging friend has posted some more Bellamy memories here. I missed the Rosselson/Bellamy debate (if that's the word) - sounds memorable!

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,David E.
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 03:11 PM

What a wonderful thread. My wife and I had the pleasure of Peter and Anthea's company at our home in California for an extended stay while he was doing some local gigs and we have such fond memories of them both. I remember he wanted to buy some wine to go with the dinner we were preparing and I had to take him to the most run down "whiskey store" I could find in the worst part of town, nothing else would do! On seeing a fan with a "Save the Whales" bumper sticker on her Toyota he commented "If you cared that much about saving the whales you wouldn't be driving a Japanese car." I think of that often. We searched local used record stores for Rolling Stones bootlegs for his collection and upon looking through my record collection he wrote down a list of what I SHOULD be listening to. (He was right.) Somewhere I have a photo that I took, at his insistence, at a local lake side recreation area: a big smiling Peter next to a sign pointing the way to "Negro Bar." I think I need to find that again.

David E.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Howard Jones
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 02:27 PM

"Genius" is a much over-used word and I'm not sure it applies to PB. However he was a supremely talented performer and musician, and surely that is worth celebrating. On the other hand, the other singers Jim mentions are/were surely giants too, and Karl Dallas was not entirely wrong in recognising that in the folk world mediocrity is all too often accepted.

It is undoubtedly true that PB's idiosyncratic style was not to many people's taste. However I wonder whether, if he had had a more mellifluous voice and more conventional style of playing concertina, whether he would have had half the impact he did. For those who manage to get past the bleating voice, he stands out as a stunning interpreter of songs, with a superb sense of timing - so many times he managed to put just the right amount of emphasis on exactly the right word.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 02:06 PM

I'm not falling out with anybody - I hope! I hope if we were all on the lashg in some boozer we could roar heartily without coming to blows and stagger off into the night singing Butter and Cheese and All happy as larry.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Howard Jones
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 02:02 PM

somehow Bellamy's genius has singularly failed to attract such a cult status

I'm not so sure of that. He certainly seems to be held in high regard by a younger generation who probably never had the chance to see him live. Jon Boden's admiration for him is well known, but he's far from being alone. Check out this new band, made up of young but well-established musicians, who do a cracking version of the Kipling/Bellamy "Pilgrims' Way", and even named the band after the song:

Pilgrims' Way

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 01:45 PM

Back off boys! No fisticuffs allowed here; this thread, I hope, is about raising a collective glass to a much missed artist and human being. Mind you, it's good that we can argue about PB, and even fall out over him. He would have loved that, I'm sure. But no-one's trying to beatify him here. He can be a genius without having to be a saint, surely.

I'm chuffed that Suibhne feels I converted him to the Bellamist cause. I've actually got an almost 100% success rate in such endevours. The only person I ever failed with is the one with whom I share my life. But I'm not finished trying...

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 12:53 PM

"No I don't, I might despair of it at times, as any self respecting lover of traditional song would, yourself included,"
True - but we are talking of a different stage in the revival when mediocrity wasn't the main problem by far.
Peter was part of the scene at the same time as MacColl, Lloyd, Killen.... and when it was possible to catch the occasional glimpse of Joe Heaney, the Stewarts... et al; all demanding performers and hardly middle-of-the-road by anybody's standards.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 12:26 PM

Nurse, nurse

L in C#

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 12:20 PM

a revival which you obviously despise

No I don't, I might despair of it at times, as any self respecting lover of traditional song would, yourself included, but I certainly don't despise it. If I did I wouldn't be here.

these are not the kind of artists the nation clasps to its bosom

Hmmmm. I think they are you know - Sun Ra was cherished and regularly played to packed concert halls. The last time I saw him (1991?) was at the RNCM in Manchester after his first stroke and the place was heaving & the music typically transcendent. Mark E. Smith - what can I say? The latest album (Your Future Our Clutter) is one of the finest ever; he has a devoted following and National Treasure status with BBC 4 documentaries to boot. The only thing that got in the way of Vivian Stanshall's career was the booze - not long before his untimely death he did a Late Show Special which is up there with his finest work, with plenty more in the offing, including a cinematographic return to Rawlinson End.

Odd that PB was top of his game too, as S&RCT testifies. I saw (and did the sound for) what might well have been his final gig and he tore the place apart. That he had nothing in the offing tells us more about the folk scene than it does about him.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 11:29 AM

"this is about the MOR mediocrity that has typified the folk scene..."
No it isn't - you have chosen to confuse this with personal taste and judgement. It really does take a special kind of arrogance to claim that anybody who doesn't share your tastes in singing must be mediocre
I reject totally the idea that any of us who didn't particularly like his performance had anything to do with his ultimate fate. As far as I'm concerned, he was an experimentalist whose experiments just didn't work - for me, at least.
This does not prevent me from being eternally grateful to him for his role in introducing Walter Pardon to a wider audience; something that influenced and enriched my life for over twenty years.
I find it totally unacceptible and extremely distasteful that you should use Peter Bellamy to belabour a revival which you obviously despise, yet choose to be part of and take enjoyment from, along with many others, including me (and Peter Bellamy)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 11:24 AM

I'd like to split the difference between Suibhne and Brian (which will probably satisfy no one).

I think what leaps out at me when I look at Bellamy's discography is how focused he was: there always seems to have been something he wanted to achieve, some project at the back of his mind. Most artists - and I really want to stress that I mean no disrespect in what I'm about to say - record An Album, followed if they're lucky by Another Album, and they're pleased if the album sounds nice and even more pleased if other people think it sounds nice. For most artists, something as wilfully single-minded as (say) an entire album of Kipling settings would attract labels like "side project", "personal passion", "indulging a longstanding obsession".

There are very, very few Another Albums in Bellamy's discography: it seems to consist mostly of personal passions and longstanding obsessions. In this he wasn't much like Nic Jones or even Ewan MacColl, and he was a lot like Sun Ra and Mark E. Smith (and Viv Stanshall, come to that). And Brian's right: these are not the kind of artists the nation clasps to its bosom. Most people like stuff that sounds nice.

However, I don't think single-mindedly following your passions is a sign of genius, or of being a giant among dwarves. On the other hand, coming back to the bit about not meaning any disrespect, I don't think making An Album and trying to make it sound nice is a mark of mediocrity. The Noah's Ark Trap goes down quite smoothly, and you'd be listening to it for a very long time before you were reminded of the Fall; it's still a brilliant album.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 11:08 AM

with Dolly Collins on piano and Ursula Pank on cello

Bloody hell. Just realised what this actually means - that Mrs Ursula Pank, wife of Steve Pank, is in fact none other than Ursula Smith, who played cello with the Third Ear Band circa 1970, appearing on the classic Air, Earth, Fire, Water and the soundtrack for Abelard & Heloise. She briefly joining the re-formed band circa 1988 to play some truly demonic violin on New Forecasts from the Third Ear Almanac. She also played in various other contexts, including the album Spirit of Love by Clive Palmer's COB.

For more on Mrs & Mrs Pank & the TEB see HERE.

Now there's a link to cherish!

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 10:29 AM

he was a professional performer who chose his career and failed to please his customers - no more, no less.

Which is exactly what I meant, of course. But for those of us who still believe in some sort of musical transcendence it is the inability of his customers to appreciate the genius in their midsts that remains, sadly, the untimate legacy of his craft. And he isn't alone in that - Van Gogh was just such another. This isn't about the bestowing of sainthoood though, this is about the MOR mediocrity that has typified the folk scene since it's inception and continues to do so, with but few notable exceptions - and most of them I hear in singarounds for which I remain eternally thankful.

What seems to be emerging here is less a celebration of a uniquely gifted human being who challenged such cloying folk mediocrity, than it is a solemn shaking of the head that he didn't rein himself it in a bit and knuckle under. A dire warning indeed to anyone who dares aim just that little bit higher because your customer demographic is so limited in their horizons they just won't understand. So you too must knuckle under, laddie / lassie, and give them the schlock they can understand, because, as we know, the customer is always right.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: DebC
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 09:45 AM

I didn't know Peter; he had left this world just as I was discovering the YT and many of the traditional folk songs of the British Isles. I do, however, count as good friends the many people on both sides of the Atlantic who knew Peter well and it's always interesting to hear their stories.

If he had stuck around a wee bit longer, I am sure we would have met, though what I would have thought of him personally, I can't ever know. But his artistic legacy is huge and has inspired me to look deeper into the music and try to find the gems amongst the thousands of traditional songs out there.

That said, I have never liked the "sainthood" bestowed on anyone in the folk community (or anywhere else for that matter) be it PB or Guthrie. There is no denying that the contributions each has made to the folk genre are significant.

Debra Cowan

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 09:41 AM

"and suffered rebuttal as a consequence."
Nope - he was a professional performer who chose his career and failed to please his customers - no more, no less.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 09:23 AM

This is entirely a matter of personal taste

Of course it is! Who's saying anything different?

beatification

Hardly that - just giving credit where credit's due that's all. PB was a man who dared to push the conservative Folk Envelope (just a bit) and suffered rebuttal as a consequence. The others played it safe, and continue to do so, which accounts, IMHO, for the disparity between the glories of The Tradition and the MOR / Easy Listening status of The Revival even at its most (dare I say) traditional.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 08:58 AM

"Whereas PB is a big fish in any pond"
This is entirely a matter of personal taste - as reflected by Peter's empty appointment diary - not a problem with any of the others mentioned to my knowledge.
It is possibly to have respect for Peter's character without particularly liking his singing, which reflects my own attitude.
Let's leave the beatification to the church and avoid contentious arguments on a thread paying rightful respect to somebody who deserves it, shall we?

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 08:18 AM

but are we to infer that MacColl, Lloyd, Carthy, Nic Jones, Ray Fisher etc. (I could go on) were pygmies?

Dare I say big fish in a small pond? Whereas PB is a big fish in any pond. I file PB alongside Rene Zosso, Duke Ellington, Davie Stewart, Sun Ra, Kraftwerk, Harry Cox, The Fall, Jim Eldon and Miles Davis. Much as I love the others they're still filed under folk.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Brian Peters
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 07:42 AM

"For PB to have had the success he deserved the folk scene would have had to have been a very different thing to what it actualy was - and is."

More accurately, the world would have had to be a very different thing. PB's wildly idiosyncratic style, larger-than-life character, outspokenness, sartorial eccentricity and general other-ness would never have gained him mass adulation in any musical genre. Most humans prefer conformity. Where did eccentric genius get Vivian Stanshall?

"a giant in a world where the pygmy is the standard" is a good soundbite, but are we to infer that MacColl, Lloyd, Carthy, Nic Jones, Ray Fisher etc. (I could go on) were pygmies?

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 07:11 AM

the contrast between the success he had and the success he deserved

For PB to have had the success he deserved the folk scene would have had to have been a very different thing to what it actualy was - and is. The Karl Dallas quote sums it up perfectly: ...a giant in a world where the pygmy is the standard.... Maybe in an alternative universe PB would have got the Fairport gig (he was offered the job, and did accept!) and by such means come to the attention of a wider more eclectic and appreciative audience - but the further irony her is that whilst Shirley Collins is lauded by the likes of Current 93 and darker scenes beyond the reactionary confines of the folk orthodoxy, somehow Bellamy's genius has singularly failed to attract such a cult status - thus far at any rate, despite the best efforts of we frustrated Bellamists who insist he is deserving of a world class status transcendent of genre.

I remember the first time I met Peter Bellamy - a Thursday night at the Bridge in Newcastle after a hard day tree felling with the BTCV circa 1983. I hadn't even heard of him back then, but I was nevertheless recommended to him as the sort of person who could offer him a bed for the night - so up he came to the bar, asking for me by name and looking thoroughly pissed off that such was his exalted status he was reduced to begging for a doss from a stranger who wasn't even at the gig (after a hard day tree felling all I wanted was to drink & roar with my fellows). In the event he found somewhere a little closer to Newcastle than I was living at the time but I often ponder how it would have been to have sat up smoking the night away with PB entirely unaware of his status. Anyhoo - a few days later I related the episode to Raymond who was living in the wilds of the South Tyne valley at the time, asking if he'd heard of someone called Peter Bellamy - and there was my induction, as I recall, right there and then as he took me through the entire Bellamy oeuvre long into the night.

*

Whilst rummaging around for masters for the forthcoming release of the double CD set John Barleycorn Rebirth on Coldspring, I found a rehearsal session of me singing A Tree Song (AKA Oak, Ash & Thorn) from March 2007 which I'd forgotten about entirely. Not bad - even if I say so myself: you can hear it as the first track on my Myspace Page. I fancy PB would have been singularly unimpressed!

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Lanfranc on holiday and cookieless
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 07:06 AM

I didn't know Peter that well, unfortunately, but of all the people I met through my lifelong obsession with folk music, he is the one I miss the most. In YT days we shared the management services of Bruce Dunnett and I booked him at clubs that I ran whenever I could. Unfortunately, if it was a committee-run club, I was often outvoted when I suggested booking him.

He once travelled into London with me on a commuter train after spending the night after a gig. The reaction of our fellow passengers (who seldom spoke) when Peter burst into song at 8am was a sight to behold!

I'm glad his memory lives on.

Alan

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 04:37 AM

Love it too. Keep 'em coming!

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 07:14 PM

You did a good job on it, too, Pip. One of the high points of the evening.

This has been a marvellous thread. Thank you, people, for all the anecdotes and reminiscences.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 06:54 PM

God love you, Dick, I didn't for a moment mean to suggest that Bellamy was boring. The whole phrase - "boring bleating old traddy" - was one that he coined himself, with obvious *ENTIRELY* *IRONIC* reference to himself.

I suppose my reason for using the phrase was to reflect on the contrast between the success he had and the success he deserved. (Which was probably his reason for using it as well.)

Incidentally, I sang "Poor fellows" this evening. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool traddie, but I'm sure that won't be the last Bellamy song I sing.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 01:39 PM

boring is a poor description, Mercurial is [imo]more appropriate

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 01:20 PM

Regarding Heather's post, I believe Elmer P Bleaty came from Lawrence Heath - Southern Rag /Borfolk - and Googling to find the combination of SR, LH and EPB came up with a mention on this thread on Mudcat last year.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,GordonT
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 12:57 PM

Good to hear these memories of PB.
I first heard him in the mid 70s at Leeds Poly folk club.I think he came on wearing a cape.I thought he was great,and went to see him again a few days later at the Grove,where I couldnt help noticing he did exactly the same set.He did his best to antagonise his audience at the Poly (which was not a very trad folk club) by saying "You think youre too cool to join in the choruses - well none of you are as cool as me"!
A few years later I did a spot at Selby folk club,run by Mike Soar,with Peter as guest.I sang The Seven Gipsies and said "this is from a singer called Harry Cox from Norfolk or somewhere".Peter didnt think much of this and took the piss out of me for the rest of the night - "here's a song from Yarmouth - or somewhere".
I got to know him a bit when he moved to Keighley.His house was stylish,the home of an "artist",and he was always wonderfully entertaining and seemed to know about everything.Did the fact that his records,cds and tapes were so meticulously arranged on his shelf show a slightly obsessive streak? I dont know, but I remember that his huge number of Beatles tapes were arranged so as to spell out The Beatles in big letters on the spines.Then there were his large busts of Keith Richard and his tudor style paintings.
i last saw him at Whitby that year and spoke to him in the spa about his quiz.In retrospect,he didnt look that great - he was perspiring heavily for some reason.
His funeral was the saddest,most emotional thing - the coffin with his hat and concertina on the top,led by John Pashley's New Orleans jazz band.We probably all thought - if only he could have seen this, the love people had for him.And yet - would it have made any difference? He was obviously in a distressed state, and had attempted to take his own life several times before.It's very hard to reach someone when they get to a certa9in place.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: C Stuart Cook
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 04:31 AM

I'm a 'Stopport' lad born and bred though I decamped to the hillsides above Hyde many years ago. 'Fruitcake' hardly touched the surface of some of the inhabitants. I worked on Stockport market for a number of years. Some of the characters were amazing, Dirty Les and his brother, old man Petulengro with his mane of grey hair.
Last years club combination of Barber and Wilson was a fantastic tribute to both PB and MacColl. Fantastic personal interpretations of songs rooted in the originals. I've almost worn out the CD.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: Howard Jones
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 04:23 AM

For those who can get Spotify, there's quite a number of his recordings there to listen to.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 04:21 AM

Indeed I recall the menu being so after their return from Nawlinz ~~ but, credit where due, the gumbos and jambalayas were Anthea's work. Peter was no sort of cook, to my recollection.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 04:05 AM

I've always understood PB's culinary flare was every bit as flamboyant as his approach to traditional song - albeit somewhat more cosmopolitan. I was talking to someone recently who'd once been PB's dinner guest and was served up authentic gumbos & jambalaya all to the accompaniment of 78s of vintage New Orleans jazz.

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 12:49 PM

Stalybridge Stare, interesting, reminds me of the phrase Stockport Fruitcake.In culinary terms PB was more like Gentlemens Relish

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Goodnight Gracie
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 12:41 PM

My husband Peter and I had the honor of meeting Peter through our good friend Lisa Null. Peter was a fine musician and person. I have wonderful memories of him in the red suit playing the concertina with a garter on it. He stayed with us 4th of July week in Ann Arbor in 1976 and had a great time participating in our bicentennial. He and Pete appreciated each others sense of humour and became fast friends. We miss him terribly as a friend and as a great artist.

Grace

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 12:11 PM

Dolly Collins on cello.

That would have been the Maritime England Suite (1982) with Dolly Collins on piano and Ursula Pank on cello, issued in a cassette only edition with a fetching yellow photocopied cover!

Subject: RE: Boring, Bleating Old Traddy (Peter Bellamy)
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:28 AM

There's no dounting that PB had presence. I remember his performance of the Kipling-inspired cycle "We Have Fed Our Sea For a Thousand Years" at the Norwich Triennial back in the very early Eighties with the also lamented Dolly Collins on cello.
It was clear that the evening was not quite what many in the audience - the county tweed and twinset types - had expected, and as he launched into the first song there was some murmuring and shuffling of prgrammes and one or two walked out in protest at this 'avant garde nonsense'.
PB seemed to see it as a gauntlet flung down and to change up a gear, and the sense of 'sod you lot, I'm going to do this my way' was palpable. Within the space of the next song he had transfixed the hall, and from then on one could have heard a pin drop.
His vocal style was never my favourite - I always found it a little too affected, but there's no doubt that he was an elemental figure. It's only the the past year or so that I've started playing his recordings again, and it saddens me that I didn't make more effort to see him live. The recorded legacy is stunning, and I'm so pleased that Jon Boden is mining it so well for some of his material.