BS: Heavyweight boxing champions

Subject: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:53 AM

Lost track a bit of wha't going on with the heavyweight boxing champions.

David Haye retained his WBA title last night.

However, I got to thinking

When was the last white British/American heavyweight boxing Champion?

I for the life of me cannot think who that might have been.

So I got to thinking

Why are black British/American's so dominant in the heavyweight section?

The nearest white boxer, I can think of that almost won the title, is Henry Cooper when he knocked Cassius Clay out and only the bell saved Clay. Clay went on to pummel Cooper until they stopped the fight because of Cooper's cuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:03 AM

Marciano?

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:08 AM

Ingmar Johannson?

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:41 AM

Were they both American and how long ago was that?

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: alanabit
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:50 AM

I read somewhere once that Black African bodies tend to have a slightly higher proportion of bone marrow than White European ones. This was assumed to give Black men slight advantage at certain sports, especially the upper weights of boxing. By the same token, the Europeans were supposed to have a slight advantage at sports like swimming. I do not know enough about physiology to comment on this and I would hate it to be misconstrued as having really horrible, racist connotations.
The current world heavyweight champions with titles that mean anything are the Klitschko brothers, a pair of giant Ukranians. To my eye they are reasonable boxers without having the movement, balance, technical skill or timing of the better heavyweights. They are both in their mid thirties, so it is inevitable that they will make way for another champion, probably in the next couple of years. While Haye is undoubtedly an excellent technician, he is too small to have any chance against the Klitschkos, either of whom will swat him, if he has the temerity to step into the same ring. Haye was superb against Valuev. Valuev's freakish size was his only asset in a boxing ring though. Neither of the Klitschkos is remotely as bereft of boxing ability as Valuev.
At the moment there is no really classy heavyweight in sight. However, I suspect when he does emerge, he will be a Black American. There never was a white British Heavyweight World Champion. Bob Fitzsimmons was indeed born in Cornwall, but he was ten when he became a New Zealander - and I think he was a little older when he became champion! Rocky Marciano is the last American white I know of who became a credible World Heavyweight Champion. In today's boxing rings he would be too small - a cruiserweight at most.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Lox
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:50 AM

Well the current heavyweight champions on the other two boxing bodies are the Klitschko Brothers from Russia, and Haye won his belt from Valuev, the beast from the east (also russian).

All three of them are white ...

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Lox
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:52 AM

Sorry Alan,

cross posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:04 AM

One name that comes to mind when I think of British boxers was Richard Dunn from Leeds. Okay he was never World Class, but he was courageous. I saw him fight Muhammad Ali for the world heavyweight title in 1976. Ali, knocked him out in the fifth round; this was to be the last knockout Ali achieved.

He was one of natures triers. I saw a sports centre named after Dunn in Bradford.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:25 AM

While never winning the championship, Randall "Tex" Cobb fought both Earnie Shavers and Larry Holmes, neither of which could figure out how to knock Tex out...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:17 AM

Alanabit, you may well be right. I just find it so wierd.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:36 AM

Karl Mildenburger also nearly had "Gaseous Cassius" Clay, but failed to nail him while he was wobbly.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:44 AM

If they were to allow chimpanzees to box men, it would really shake up the whole scene in a big way.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:49 AM

Cosell denounced professional boxing in a November 26, 1982 bout between Larry Holmes and a clearly out-matched Randall "Tex" Cobb at the Astrodome.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:57 AM

"On March 29, 1966, Chuvalo fought the first of his two famous title bouts with Muhammad Ali, again at home at Maple Leaf Gardens. With only 17 days notice, Chuvalo was fearsome in the ring and forced Ali to defend himself through 15 long rounds. Midway through the 15th round, Chuvalo landed four vicious blows to Ali's jaw and a wicked right to the head, but was unable to put Ali down for the count. Although Chuvalo lost the fight on decision, Ali later said, "He was the toughest man I ever fought." And Chuvalo quipped, "Guess who went to the hospital and guess who went out dancing with his wife!"

Canadas Walk of Fame-George Chuvalo

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 12:00 PM

I don't box. After I KO'ed my cousin Jim (I was 8 at the time) with the first punch of the match I never boxed again. Stylized fighting isn't my thing -- a fight is over in seconds and one doesn't walk away. And I'm not talking about "Mixed Martial Arts" or "Full Contact" crap. If I am in a situation where I absolutely must engage in hand-to-hand combat the other person is going off in an ambulance or a coffin.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 12:07 PM

Johansson was Swedish and became World Heavyweight Champion in 1959 after defeating Floyd Patterson. Patterson regained the title the following year.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 12:13 PM

Believe it or not, I once knocked out a guy.

I was 17 and working away from home, retulrning home only every two weeks. One time when I walked into my bedroom my 15 year old brother came in from the other room and without a word grabbed me by my shoulders and began pushing me out.

I am saying, What are you doing? This is my room? What are you doing

He says, only: Out. Out. And kept pushing.

Outside the threshold I'd had enough and brought my fist over my left shoulder and punched him in the jaw. He was slightly shorter than I in height and it connected solidly.

Down he went. And down on my knees I went too, babbling, Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

After a memonet he staggered to his feet, mumbling It's all right. It's all right.

Years later I asked him what was going on, and he said the only reson he can think of is that he hated for me to be gone so much.

I never went pro though.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: kendall
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 12:38 PM

I decked a trouble maker when I was a teen and never raised an angry fist since.It's hard for a guy to walk away, but it's better than hurting someone or worse, being hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 02:19 PM

I decked a teen as well when I was a teen and just like Kendall never did it again.

Mind you I did enjoy seeing the bugger lying on the floor groaning. My street cred went up considerably :-) It was in the local church. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 02:53 PM

No way to treat the vicar - even if he wasn't a tory.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:52 PM

I really collared him Al :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:36 PM

Amazingly, Joe Bugner held some very dodgy version of the Heavyweight title not too may years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:47 PM

Blimey forgot all about him Tunesmith.

David Haye said he would do "everything in his power" to fight Wladimir or Vitali Klitschko after his demolition of Audley Harrison on Saturday.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 09:05 PM

Super Six, Frosh/Abraham Nov. 27th from Helsinki, Finland.

Carl Froch (26 – 1, 20 KOs) Vs. Arthur Abraham (31 – 1, 25 KOs)

Frosh is tough, can absorb many punches, and likes to maul opponents. But, he hasn't much boxing style and leaves himself open. His loss to Mikkel Kessler and that was a close call, and he will likely fight hard to redeem his reputation.

Abraham is also very tough and has proven he can take many punches (remember his fight with Edison Miranda. He has a really good defence, and has a iron fist (though a slow starter). It's hard to see one of these guys being knocked out. Maybe it will be down to a points decision?

Any predictions?

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arnie
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 06:41 AM

Today's Talk Sport radio debate is about whether or not Harrison should have his fight purse withheld? He stands to make around £1 million and barely threw a punch. I think that withholding the entire purse would be a bit harsh, given that he took a real pummelling in round 3. However, maybe some of the purse should be withheld for lack of effort and lack of contribution to what was a very one-sided boxing match. Sends out the wrong message if a boxer gets paid a lot of money simply for defending himself over a few rounds. The only real winners, once again, are the sponsors and the pay-per-view tv channels.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Lox
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 08:07 AM

I'll join the Ranks of Kendall and Arthur in being a one punch teen.

In my case, I was in the wrong.

I was 14 and at school giving a smaller kid a hard time in the woodwork room, when an Israeli kid in the same class as us stood up for him.

I smacked the Israeli kid in the mouth and bust his lip, then took him to the medical room where we boh lied and said he'd slipped and hit his face on a vice.

The next day he didn't come to school and I felt pretty shit about it, but was shocked when my class mates started coming up and patting me on the back saying words to the effect of "you showed that Jew" etc.

Suffice to say that I told them to fuck off and the next day I apologized to the Israeli kid for being an asshole and we became best friends from that day onwards.

He had more courage in his little finger than they possessed as a group.

Since then, I've discovered that i have both a tough chin and a srong patient character as I've had people hit me hard, even headbutt me and I've just stared back at them, which so far has made them very uneasy and made them back off, and i have then just walked away.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Becca72
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 11:55 AM

Lennox Lewis is the last one I can think of, but of course he is not white....I did enjoy watching him, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:32 PM

There never was a white British Heavyweight World Champion.

Was Lennox Lewis a Jamacian, Canadian or British citizen...or all three wrapped up in one?

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:34 PM

Quote
WBA heavyweight champion David Haye has denied betting on himself to beat Audley Harrison in the third round of their world title fight on Saturday.

The British Boxing Board of Control (BBBC) rules prohibit fighters from placing wagers on their own bouts.

"I didn't need to bet, I made enough money from the fight anyway," Haye told BBC Radio 5 live.

Haye added that it would be "harsh" for the BBBC to withhold some of Harrison's purse after his dismal showing.

In the aftermath of his demolition of fellow Briton Harrison in Manchester, Haye claimed to have "put a lot of money on the third round".

But asked to clarify the comments, Haye told 5 live he had merely encouraged friends and family to bet on that outcome.

"I didn't physically go into a betting shop and say here's X amount of money," he said.

"What I did say is I would knock Audley Harrison out in three rounds. My prediction was the third round and I told a lot of people that and it was true.

"It makes the fight a lot more exciting for people. It did feel like I'd bet on myself because so many people had put money on it.

"If it had gone into the fourth round I would have felt guilty."

BBBC Secretary Robert Smith said he was "disappointed" Haye claimed not to know the rules regarding boxers betting on themselves but that he was satisfied by the explanation.

"Every year we send out the rules and regulations. The betting rule is in the regulations and if he had read it he would have known the rule," Smith told 5 live.

"But I think from what David has said I'm fairly happy that everything was OK."

Unquote

Hmmm, seems like quite a few made a bob or 2 on that match. Maybe not him. I am miffed that he didn't tell me.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 02:47 PM

ngemar Johansson
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Ingemar Johansson
IngemarJohansson 2.jpg
Statistics
Real name         Ingemar Johansson
Nickname(s)         Ingo
The Hammer of Thor[1]
Rated at         Heavyweight
Height         1.84 m (6 ft 0 in)
Reach         183 cm (72 in)
Nationality          Sweden
Birth date         September 22, 1932(1932-09-22)
Birth place         Gothenburg, Sweden
Death date         January 30, 2009(2009-01-30) (aged 76)
Death place         Kungsbacka, Sweden
Stance         Orthodox
Boxing record
Total fights         28
Wins         26
Wins by KO         17
Losses         2
Draws         0
No contests         0
Medal record
Competitor for Sweden
Men's Boxing
Olympic Games
Silver         1952 Helsinki         Heavyweight

Jens Ingemar Johansson[2] (September 22, 1932 – January 30, 2009) was a Swedish boxer and former heavyweight champion of the world. Johansson was the fifth heavyweight champion born outside the United States. In 1959 he defeated Floyd Patterson by TKO in the third round, after flooring Patterson seven times in that round, to win the World Heavyweight Championship. As a result, Johansson won the Hickok Belt as top professional athlete of the year and was named the Associated Press Male Athlete of the Year and Sports Illustrated magazine's "Sportsman of the Year".

Johansson enjoyed a successful career as a heavyweight. When he retired in 1963 he had a record of 26 wins, 17 by KO, and only 2 losses. He called his right fist "toonder and lightning" for its concussive power (it was also called "Ingo's Bingo" and the "Hammer of Thor"), and in 2003 he was ranked at #99 on The Ring's list of 100 greatest punchers of all time

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Becca72
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 02:49 PM

Ed,
According to ask.com:

Lennox Lewis -
Nationality: British/Canadian[1]/Jamaican[citation needed]
Birth date: September 2, 1965 (1965-09-02) (age 45)
Birth place: West Ham, London, England

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 03:49 PM

The original question was concerning the last white American/British boxer to hold the heavy-weight title.
As stated earlier, Joe Bugner in the late 90s held a "joke" version of the title. Here's the relevant bit from Joe's Wikipedia entry.

He[ Bugner}made a final comeback during the 1990s, winning the Australian heavyweight title in 1995 and the lightly regarded WBF heavyweight championship in 1998 at the age of 48 against Bonecrusher Smith.

Of course, Joe may no longer be a British citizen.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 04:00 PM

Of course, it must be John Ruiz.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Acorn4
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:25 PM

Heard a joke on the radio this morning:-

What did Audley Harrison and Michael Jackson have in common?


ans: They both wore gloves for no reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Ed T
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 08:49 PM

US Tommy Morrison won the WBO Heavyweight Championship in 1993 and kept the title for nearly four and a half months (7 Jun 1993–29 Oct 1993).

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: 3refs
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:40 AM

Tommy Burns!!!
Born in Hanover, Ontario. Canada.
Lost "The Title" to some guy named Jack Johnson!

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: 3refs
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:49 AM

I wanted to add to the above that he may not have been the last white guy to hold "The Title", but he was the first to lose it to a black man!

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:58 AM

So it's Burn's fault :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: 3refs
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:00 AM

I remember "Tex" Cobb on the Tonight show with Johnny Carson(I think the day after the fight with Holmes and paraphrasing here a bit), Carson asked: "Do you think you hurt him at all?" Cobb replied: "Oh ya, I think I broke both his hands".

Cobb also had a "Black Belt" in Karate.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: GUEST,Alan whittle
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:12 AM

I always liked the nice guys. It used to pain me when Floyd Patterson or Frank Bruno got beat.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: 3refs
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:13 AM

I boxed in Army Cadets,(about 40 years ago)had a 9-1-1 record and quit after a win! Broke my nose for the first time and said "I'm never going through that again and not be able to kick the guy in the nuts! Broke my nose several times after that playing hockey and lacrosse and still never got to kick anybody! There are some things you play where you just can't do that!

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:42 AM

Responding to Alanabit's post regarding Cornishman Bob Fitzsimmonds, it appears that he was taken with his family, to New Zealand when aged about ten years old. However, I can find no reference to him becoming a citizen of that country, or of America, where he lived when winning the World Heavyweight Championship.
Evidently he held three world titles at different weights. He beat Jack Dempsey in 1891, for the World Middleweight title and Jim Corbett in 1897 for the World Heavyweight crown.In 1903 he won the new World Light-Heavyweight title. If Fitzsimmonds did not become a citizen of either New Zealand or America, surely that means he was an Englishman when he won those fights? Maybe somebody knows different?

Regards

Andy

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 01:56 PM

For me the fact that he was born in Cornwall would have prevented him from ever becoming an Englishman! However, you have made a credible argument (albeit tenuous) for claiming him as Brit. He must have been quite a character though, because there are some good stories about him.

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM

OMG, is Cornwall now trying to not be part of England.

I'll get me cornish pastie

Subject: RE: BS: Heavyweight boxing champions
From: fat B****rd
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 11:02 AM

I asked somebody from Fitzsimmon's hometown of Helston if they'd heard of him (this was in 1995) and they told me there was a picture of him in one of the pubs there.