The Folk of Folk Songs

Subject: The Folk of Folk Songs
From: Sourdough
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 07:10 AM

As I listened to "Feet First I" this evening, I wished Sandy and Caroline had been on long enough to talk about the pleasures of collecting. I often fantasized what it would be like to discover a song and then, listening to some of the Library of Congress recordings I wondered if I would recognize a treasure. Most songs, it seems to me, don't present themselves all smoothed out. I would think you have to develop a sense of what a song could sound like as well as the very necessary appreciation for what the song is. I would like very much to hear what the Warners had to say about that, too.

As a part of my work, over the past ten years or more, I have done a lot of oral history recordings and have met a variety of people. By my standards, many of these people are close-minded and wrong-headed about what I think are important life topics but there are other parts of these same people that are warm, charming and caring. I have always had trouble integrating my real affection for these people with my disappointment about their close-mindedness. It sounds as though a number of people around Mudcat have dealt with this problem in collecting songs.

I think that what I do is focus on the good and just try to overlook the other even though sometimes I feel wimpy not "standing up" but I learned the hard way that unless I am asked, as an outsider, my views will probably do nothing more than irritate and annoy in a situation where I am The Guest.

I'd be real interested in others' experience and thoughts because this is something that is still going on for me.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: BS: The Folk of Folk Songs
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 06:40 PM

Sourdough,

I like to keep an open mind and be able to deal with people on a factual level. But when you're collecting songs from someone who is generously giving of their time, I think it's important to get away from ideological disputes and keep focussed on the project at hand.

Most ideological discussions don't seem to change anyone's minds about things and there is always an appropriate form for this. Somewhere along the line, it's important to get past ideological differences and bridge the gap with that upon which you can agree.

Love of music is pretty much an agreement.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: The Folk of Folk Songs
From: Sourdough
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 06:57 PM

Frank,

Has a tune ever surprised you in the sense that when you first heard it it seemed ordinary, perhaps because of the performance or the informant, but then you came to realize the beauty of tune or words that you had overlooked originally?

Additional copies of this message deleted.....
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: The Folk of Folk Songs
From: Ballygally Whistler
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 07:21 PM

Frank..calm yourself !!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Folk of Folk Songs
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 08:47 PM

"Joe Offer- Clean-up on aisle 6"

Subject: RE: BS: The Folk of Folk Songs
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 09:39 PM

SD, a teaspoon of vinegar will cure those hiccoughs!:-)

I know what you mean about collecting oral histories and feeling wimpy. I have had to keep my mouth shut, and as you do, focus on the positive. Most of the people I am talking about are extremely old and pretty set in their ways; I don't think much I'd say would change their outlook, but I still consider their knowledge of "the way it was" as priceless and worthy of my time and taping. Most of what they share is so interesting and full of the little things whihc made up daily life, so different from what we know nowadays.

Even from the time my kids were growing up. I was talking to my neice the other day about her 3 yr old watching movies on the vcr. I think it was my defining moment as an "old-timer". I mentioned that of course we didn't have vcr's when she and her cousins were kids. She was silent for a moment and then exclaimed, "Oh, yeah! Wow, I hadn't thought of that!" We then had a lovely little conversation about life before video on demand.

My grandmother was a little girl when her family moved from Kansas to Colorado in a covered wagon. She became a schoolteacher and fortunately wrote her memoirs when in her 70's and convalescing. I am still amzed to think she went from the wagon to the first telephone and cars to climbing down into a submarine in her early 70's and taking her first plane ride about the same time. Similarly my mother, wihtout the wagon, but still the early cars, party lines all the way to email.

I am sorry for rambling. There is just such history out there and everyday when I see the obituaries and read of another 90something who came to Wyoming as a kid and went to some rural ranch shool, started a feed store or whatever, I mourn the loss of their voice and memories, and those of their counterparts elsewhere.

My friend calls them "the salt of the earth". I remember that when one of them gets a bit closed-minded or on a subject which bothers me. Salt can rub a wound and burn like hell, but it can also cleanse and heal or add seasoning to life.

So....here's to all the Salts of the Earth!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: BS: The Folk of Folk Songs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 10:22 PM

Why is it I can detatch and accept people for what they are when I'm doin' musical things, but I cannot do that at all with my father-in-law! At a big family gathering, when he used the N-word AGAIN I just plain lost it and screamed, "THAT WAS THE STUPIDEST F****** THING I EVER HEARD!" I've been pretty much a non-person ever since. (As Utah once said, "It's good though!"---lots less stupid small talk.)

If my father-in-law was Roscoe Holcomb, I'd give him the slack probably.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: The Folk of Folk Songs
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 08:27 AM

Sourdough,

Yes. Many times I've re-heard a tune and found in it something that I'd overlooked before. For me, it might be the addition of a new chord in the accompaniment or a new context musically or historically. Sometimes, I will alter a tune or chords if I hear it a new way. Or sometimes a collated text (putting together different verses of the same song)brings the song to life for me. Or sometimes a new variant of a familar song excites my interest. When I did my new CD I changed tunes, added verses and applied different chords than I had heard in other performances. A good example of a song that has been overlooked for me would be Red Rosy Bush.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: The Folk of Folk Songs
From: Duckboots
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 11:56 AM

Hell of a dilemma Art. I've been there. Not with my current inlaws (who are great) but in a couple of past situations. The one thing that is certain is it will put an even greater strain on a relationship that probably ain't 100 percent to begin with. As I get older (and broker) I find I'm more likely to do what you did. After all, what are they gonna do, block my career oportunities?

Rick