BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot

Subject: Ariz. Dem. Gabrielle Giffords shot
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 01:59 PM

Just a few minutes ago --

NPR: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

>>U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot in the head outside a grocery store in Tucson while holding a public event, Arizona Public Media reported Saturday.

The 40-year-old Democrat, who was re-elected to her third term in November, was hosting a "Congress on Your Corner" event at a Safeway in northwest Tucson when a gunman ran up and started shooting, according to Peter Michaels, news director of Arizona Public Media.

At least nine other people, including members of her staff, were hurt. Giffords was transported to University Medical Center in Tucson. Her condition was not immediately known.

Giffords was talking to a couple when the suspect ran up and fired indiscriminately from about four feet away, Michaels said.

The suspect ran off and was tackled by a bystander. He was taken into custody. Witnesses described him as in his late teens or early 20s.

Giffords was first elected to represent Arizona's 8th District in 2006. The "Congress on Your Corner" events allow constituents to present their concerns directly to her.

More details to come.<<

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: BS: 2nd Ammendment
From: saulgoldie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:09 PM

----------------------------------------
Breaking News Alert: Reports: Ariz. Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shot at Tucson public event
January 8, 2011 1:46:15 PM
----------------------------------------

Arizona Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot on Saturday morning while hosting an event outside of a Tucson grocery store, according to local news reports.

National Public Radio reported Saturday that Giffords, who in November narrowly won re-election to a third term, was hosting her first "Congress on Your Corner" event when a gunman ran up and began shooting.

According to a local news report, Giffords was shot in the head at point-blank range. She was taken to University Medical Center in Tucscon; her condition was not immediately known.


And the nutjobs exercise their 2nd ammendment "rights" to thwart elections.

Saul

Subject: BS: Democratic Ariz. Congresswomen shot dead
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:19 PM

Along with 8 other democrats at a Safeway Parking lot in Tuscon Arizona Congresswoman Gofford was shot by a Glen Beck fanatic with a high velocity semi automatic handgun. Fox news reported that someone had unloaded on the crowd where Ms. Gifford was holding a question answer event.

The number of fatialities is uncertain but at least 8 people have arrived at the hospital at this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Democratic Ariz. Congresswomen shot dead
From: maeve
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:23 PM

http://www.cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2011/01/08/arizona-rep-cornell-alumna-reportedly-shot-tuscon

Subject: RE: BS: Democratic Ariz. Congresswomen shot dead
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:23 PM

One person is in custody after being tackled to the ground.
His weapon may have had a twenty bullet magazine that allowed for the most effective "unloading" in the least time.

Glen Beck has made no comment at this time. Hand Gun sales are up 700% since Obama was lected and has gworn so fast that most dealers have had the experience of running out of ammunition to sell for extened periods of time.

A second ammendment solution has begun in Arizona.

Subject: RE: BS: Democratic Ariz. Congresswomen shot dead
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:24 PM

A child has been reported being shot dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Democratic Ariz. Congresswomen shot dead
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:32 PM

The gun man shouted before "unloading" and then began shooting the Congresswoman her family and supporters. A security officer did manage to wound the gunman before the crowd pushed him to the ground.

What he shouted is not yet released but I am assuming it will be a familiar right wing phrase.

No comment from Hannity O'Reilly or Glen Beck who have called for for conservatives to rise up and exercise thier 2nd ammendment rights and water the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots.

Subject: RE: BS: Democratic Ariz. Congresswomen shot dead
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:34 PM

Wonder why this took so long...

I mean, here we have an entire fake-news station airing one loon after another threatening to jihad terrorism on people with who they disagree and no one, not one single Repub congressman, senator, judge, dog catcher has ever said, "Wait a minute"... No, Fox, the Tea Party and the Republican party have their fingerprints all over the trigger...

I have warned here on Mudcat over and over that threatenin' these "second amendment" remedies was going to bring this day...

I think John Beohner should be arrested as an accessory...

B~

Subject: BS: Gabriele Gifford alive in surgury
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:39 PM

Congresswoman Gofford is linginf to live after being shot in the head at a democratic political event in a Saeway parking lot in Tuscon Arizona. Many others have been killed by what some say is a lone gunman.

Subject: RE: BS: 2nd Ammendment - AZ Congresswoman shot
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:42 PM

Donuel, where the f*** do you get the idea Beck or any conservative had any impact on the killer of these people. Or that Beck knows or has been contacted about this murderous tragedy. Your own hate is showing.

So far the only thing said about the alleged perp is that he is young, late teens or early twenties.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:49 PM

Ahh I see the grouping of threads now, thank you.

Hi John, I know by watching the right wing media machine spin their diatribe of revenge and implied violence for 2 years straight.

If by any stretch of imagination the gun man has never heard of Glen Beck, I would then apologize.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:55 PM

http://giffords.house.gov/

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:59 PM

The Web is raging right now with curious references to failed vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin after a speech she gave last September criticizing Giffords, a Democrat, for supporting Obamacare. Months earlier on her website, Palin named Giffords as one of 20 Dems in her "target practice" crosshairs.

According to NPR, six members of Giffords' staff were killed in today's attack. According to the Associated Press, 12 people were shot.

Giffords and astronaut husband Mark Kelly, who served in Desert Storm, have two children.

http://trentonian.com/articles/2011/01/08/news/doc4d28b551cbe8d148239504.txt

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Skivee
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:00 PM

FWIW I just tuned in Fox News. Their coverage was reasonable. They retracted an earlier report that the congresswoman had died, explaining that they had obtained what seemed like 3 reliable sources' confirmation. Now it seems that she is in surgery with very serious injuries.

Subject: Our sensationalist, trigger-happy media
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:12 PM

Our so-called "news media" seem to be tripping all over themselves - and the facts - in the attempt to "scoop" their competitors.

I've just read headlines from a number of "reports" on this incident, ranging from Giffords being a "Republican" to a "Democratic Congresswoman" who "was shot dead" and who "is in surgery" in the ICU.

Then, of course, there are the hair-trigger, knee-jerk attempts at "analysis" of what it was about Giffords or the attacker (or Obama, Palin, the Republicans, Glenn Beck, the Democrats, etc.) that prompted the violence.

Here's a wild idea: How about not reporting "the facts" -- much less, analyzing them -- until we know what they are?

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:16 PM

Cable FOX news has rebroadcast the local Tuscon FOX TV station KGUN
which stated that Gabrielle GIffords' Local office has been subject to repeated violence in the last two years which includes threats and broken windows and doors.

Right wing web sites have targetted the Congresswoman for over 5 years.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:19 PM

She is, BTW, a Democrat. But that hasn't stopped hordes of internet message board posters from speculating that Obama's socialist brownshirts were somehow behind the shooting because they oppose Jan Brewer's AZ border security measures.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Smedley
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:23 PM

Palin didn't just name Giffords, she had a graphic on her website with sooting targets on a map of the US, each one signifying a politician deemed worthy of 'attack' - the Palinistas will no doubt say the target thing was a metaphor, but is some dumb young far-Right kid going to work that subtlety out ??

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:29 PM

The news has been all over the place. NPR usually takes the care go get it right, but apparently only got the news out first this time, and the reports of Giffords status (dead or alive) still seems to be in question. The university medical center at U of A reports Giffords is in surgery.

The stuff popping up in Twitter are links to the various stupid things put out by Palin and her ilk. There was a map with gunsights that people frowned upon when it appeared, and now it appears to have been a really poor choice of graphic, mean spirited at the very least, inflammatory at the worst.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: josepp
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:30 PM

Expect within the next week several republicans to issue "Why I am not responsible for this shooting" statements.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:37 PM

.... and Americans are afraid to take a vacation in Mexico.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:37 PM

Extremist speech incites extremists.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:40 PM

This message was posted, presumably by someone opposed to Gifford's policies (or just her being a Democrat?), last June.

We don't know what motivated the shootings, but Matt Iglesias reported that an anti-Giffords event was held in June with the billing:
"Get on Target for Victory in November.
Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office.
Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."

Rep. Giffords was also on Sarah Palin's "target list."

As noted earlier, a gun was dropped at a Giffords event in 2009, and her office was vandalized in March."

At least 5 of those shot have died and several others are in critical condition.

Nice having semi-automatics so readily accessible, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:45 PM

Another kook with a gun.

Nothing known about him as yet.
All the speculation about right-wing, Palin map, etc. is nonsense at this time.

John on SC, I'll echo your post.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:53 PM

As of a few minutes ago, CNN and FOX both were reporting the congresswoman alive. Let us hope this is true and that she makes a full recovery. A Judge has been confirmed killed, as well as perhaps two or three others, which is sad and unfortunate. Nine others may be in hospital with unsaid wounds.

Donuel, CNN had a feed from KVOA (I think those the call letters), Tucson. The reporter noted that several of her supporters at that rally also had guns, and opined as that may have helped put an end to the shooter's rampage. Wondering out loud, but maybe those supporters had heard Glenn Beck support the 2nd Amendment right to own a firearm for protection. I'm pretty sure he didn't say it was to shoot up meetings and speeches.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: josepp
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:56 PM

Well, Sarah, this is what happens when you pal around with terrorists.


The Pallin map on Fox News

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:07 PM

Oh my!~ Terrorists!

Misuse of words, chapter two.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:10 PM

MSNBC reported just a few minutes ago, that the judge was not killed but is in critical condition.
A spokesman for the hospital where Gifford and 9 others were taken reported, just now, that only one of those 10 (a child about age 9) has died. A few are still in surgery, most are in the ICU. He is "about as optimistic as you can be in these circumstances" that Gifford will recover, though it's too early to know the nature of that recovery.   He said that she was "responsive to commands" but that she is under anesthesia at present, so I'm guessing he meant she was conscious and responsive to commands before she was anesthetized for the brain surgery.

A total of 18 people were injured in the attack, according to the Pima County Sherriff's broadcast of a few minutes ago, but several of those were apparently not gunshot wounds (probably injuries from the chaos in the crowd).

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:13 PM

Is it just me, or do other folks feel that when you see someone's name in a thread like this, you don't even have to read what they write, because they've already told you all their opinions?

The congresswoman, wife and mother is in the hospital after being shot. If all you do is talk politics, there's something wrong with your heart.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:23 PM

Again, the conflicting reports seem to stem from the news media treating reporting as though it was a sprint race of some sort.   There are still conflicting reports as to whether Judge John Roll was killed or not. What is happening is that, as MSNBC is reporting, "the numbers don't add up" when you compare various reports about how many were "shot," how many "injured," and how many have died. But CNN and MSNBC both reported within the last few minutes that Roll had died. It would be a relief to find out that this information too was premature and incorrect.

Jeri, it's not just the Congresswoman. A nine-year-old girl was fatally shot and, apparently Judge Roll too, and there are 8 or 9 others who are still in surgery or in critical condition after surgery. This is a great tragedy for many families and for the people of Arizona. This kind of attack is not going to make their politics or their lives any easier to deal with.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:24 PM

I'll come back in a day or two and read this thread. Already I have read somethings that I know we wouldn't have said upon reflection. A horrible crime has been committed by a criminal who apparently has a mental illness. The news isn't complete. The story hasn't been fully told.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: pdq
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:28 PM

For what it's worth, this quote is from an Israeli news site...

"Giffords was elected to Congress in the Democratic sweep in 2006. The first Jewish woman elected to Congress from the state, she made her Jewish identity part of her campaign.

'If you want something done, your best bet is to ask a Jewish woman to do it,' said Giffords, a former state senator, said at the time. 'Jewish women — by our tradition and by the way we were raised — have an ability to cut through all the reasons why something should, shouldn't or can't be done and pull people together to be successful.'

Giffords fought a hard election this year, against the national anti-incumbent, anti-Democratic mood. She tacked to the right of her party on immigration, saying border security was of primary consideration. The election was called in her favor weeks after the vote."

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:31 PM

Genie, yep. My complaint is that something this horrible happened, and folks are blaming political parties, or defending them, in an entirely predictable way. People who think aren't so predictable and people who feel don't so easily dismiss the tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:43 PM

The 22-year-old man accused of the attempted assassination of Gabrielle Giffords has been named as Jared Laughner (or Loughner). Nothing much is known about him although a spooky youtube video has been unearthed attributed to Jared Loughner. The 2:34 mark features a little bit about terrorism. No political affiliation is represented in the video.

VIDEO

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:43 PM

Giffords WAS a Republican and now is considered by herself and others as a "blue dog Democrat."

My immediate feelings about the shooter is expressed numerically: 3-7-77. But I'll wait and see before saying more.

Subject: RE: Ariz. Dem. Gabrielle Giffords shot
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:49 PM

A terrible piece of news. I think it will take time to get clear information. One account told of two fatalities and another of six. It appears that Gabrielle Giffords has a head injury too, which is never good news. Like everyone else I will be waiting and hoping for the least tragic outcome.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:52 PM

Jeri and Don,
I heard you.
This is a shocking tragedy. A child is dead. A mother and elected official has been shot. What a sad and disgraceful event. The family of the young man who shot the gun have a nightmare ahead of them.
I'll be back when the facts are sorted out and leave the rest of you to carry on your interminable conflict.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:55 PM

I hate for an incident like this to fan the flames of political rivalry.   On the contrary, I would hope that it would have a sobering effect on hate-filled, violent rhetoric.

Both Gabrielle Gifford and Federal Judge John Roll (who, according to official sources' very recent reports, was fatally shot) had not only received death threats for some of their political policies or decisions (par for the course for judges and politicians), but had been targeted by very public calls for gun violence against them. And it's unlikely that this group assembled in front of a strip mall in Arizona just happened to be chosen as the target of a would-be mass murderer.

This is the most distressing trend in political 'warfare' -- when campaigning, reporting, news analysis, town hall meetings, and judicial remedies are tossed aside in favor of violence.

And what died in this attack, beyond the direct human victims, was another piece of our ability to engage in open, free discussion and debate with our political candidates and representatives. The democratic process of "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" sustained yet another grievous wound.

Will our representatives in legislatures and state & local executive offices now fear to hold town hall gatherings unless we're all subjected to TSA-airport-style screening processes? Will they fear to meet their constituents face to face at all?

I know this kind of violence isn't new, but it's very sad to know that it's so alive and well.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: josepp
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:56 PM

The shooter's politics don't have to figure in. Somebody who is unbalanced can be induced to kill someone else regardless of the shooter's or the victim's politics. That doesn't let the instigators off the hook. This woman was on rightwing hitlists for some time and it seems unlikely that didn't play a role in pushing this guy to do what he did whether he was politically sympathetic to them or not. That's one resaon you have to be careful what you say in public because someone could take you up on it for ANY reason at all.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:01 PM

Jeri, I appreciate your concerns. However, some of us have expressed concern for Ms Gifford and others. In fairness, there has only been blame assigned (to Beck, Boehner, Palin) and to Mr.Laugner, where it properly belongs. Nobody has defended any parties to this act, either directly or indirectly, although, I and a few others have chastised those whose whose prejudices place blame where it ain't.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: josepp
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:04 PM

What bothers me and I can't let it go is that Palin's words were deliberately chosen--"reload". You hear these people saying things as "take aim" or "Let them have it" without any specific appeal to violence but it seems to me that they are, in their own way, recruiting a nut to do what they know sane, reasonable people are not going to do. It's a beauty for them because by doing this, they don't have to accept responsibility. No real connection can be found.

"Hey, I never said to kill someone. This guy was a nut acting on his own! He didn't even have any political leanings!! You can't pin this on me!"

And it's true--we can't. And they know it and that is why they do it. The rhetoric is unmistakable. People like Palin and these other nutjobs are trying to push someone to kill their opponents. If it works--great. If it doesn't--no harm, no foul. And in the end, they are untouchable.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:11 PM

First step, let's hope she survives in good enough condition to resume her seat and her life.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:20 PM

Well, Ms. Palin has pulled the crosshairs graphic from her website, so I guess she gets the connection.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: mousethief
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:28 PM

Sarah Palin made it political when she released a map of the US with gun site graphics and the names of politicians that included Gifford's. You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind. In my mind she's accessory to murder.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: DougR
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:30 PM

There is no evidence that the shooter was either a right-wing extremist, or a left-wing extremist. From what I can gather, so far, he is simply a nut.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:39 PM

I can't believe it ... all this political right wing, left wing bull shit argument bantering when 18 human beings have been tragically shot, 6 of them fatally, 1 of them a 9 year old child.

Shame of it all ....

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:43 PM

josepp, You've stated the points very well.

DougR, forget the "left"/"right" labels. Loughner's bizarre convoluted "logic" ramblings DO cry out against "the government" and seem to be calling for violent resistance to such.

True, some mass murderers do seem to choose their targets 'at random', but it doesn't sound like that's what happened here (regardless of whether he leans "left" or "right" or has ever paid attention to Palin, Beck, etc.).

The rhetoric of calling for fighting political battles and "taking out" opponents or officials via guns too often, understandably, disinhibits the nut cases who otherwise might express their frustrations in less lethal ways.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:43 PM

......sadness..... in many ways.... I hope the injured recover.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: mousethief
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:48 PM

number 6, the left/right politicisation of violent crime didn't start in Tucson. We're just now seeing what the Tea Party has been saying it wanted all along. Watering the tree of liberty with blood. Finding a 2nd Amendment solution. If ballots don't work, turn to bullets. What we're doing here is not politicizing. We're seeing what comes of it.

Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 05:51 PM

Here is a statement from Steny Hoyer, House Minority Whip:

"My prayers are with Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, her family, her staff, and all the victims of today's shooting in Tucson, Arizona. Congresswoman Giffords is a devoted and insightful public servant, and a passionate advocate for her constituents—but more than that, she is my dear friend. To all those who are privileged to know Gabby Giffords, who know her spirit and graciousness in public life, today's cowardly attack is devastating.

But it is equally devastating to every American—to everyone who cares about our democracy. Our form of government, like all human things, is imperfect and flawed; but one of its greatest virtues is its power to resolve questions of the greatest import without violence. An attack on a member of that government—of whatever party or whatever views—is an attack on that principle, in which every American has a stake."

The second half is very important.

And, to help set the record straight about the casualties, here is Attorney General Eric Holder's statement:

"Today's tragedy in Arizona was a senseless act of violence that has already resulted in devastating loss, including the death of Chief United States District Court Judge John Roll and four other individuals and the wounding of Representative Gabrielle Giffords and a number of others. All of those who were killed or injured and their families are in our thoughts and prayers.

"As the President said, FBI Director Mueller is traveling to Arizona to help coordinate the investigation. The FBI is working jointly with local law enforcement to investigate today's events, and I have directed Department prosecutors and law enforcement officials to use every resource necessary to investigate this tragedy. I want to assure the people of Arizona and every American that we will hold accountable anyone responsible for these heinous acts."