Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 12:10 PM

Howard I even remember going to see Steeleye Span in the Student Union main hall, and even then in the absence of chairs most of the audience preferred to sit on the floor (although a very few jigged around in the corner, and I think were considered a bit of a distraction).

Hmmm, Ths Steeleye gigs I went to were sometimes standing only, and many, even most, people danced. In fact, Maddy P would sometimes come into the audience and grab people to dance with herself. Including myself on one memorable occasion.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 03:26 PM

Anyway - I'd love to see them but the mid-week Manchester date makes it impossible, so that's why I won't be going. I do note, however, in the light of my flippant remark earlier in this thread that the booking form for the Manchester Cathedral gig (HERE) does specify standing...

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 03:11 PM

We saw "Cleopatra" at the Globe in London. It was mostly standing only. Thanks for an authentic experience, but we found it uncomfortable.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 01:12 PM

What a thoughtful and responsible response from Adrian McNally. The Unthanks are clearly a force for the better. I've seen the quartet - the full group must be an impressive sight in full flight! If the nearest date is standing this time, I hope that there will be a chance to sit at a date on the next tour. Happy to oblige if you are looking for baby sitters!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Old Vermin
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 11:25 AM

Pleased to see that there has been communication between Steve Shaw and the Unthanks. Might I mention a less tractable problem on the same theme; seats that are too cramped?

Guildford has a couple of theatres which suffer from what I can only call short-pitched seats. Being blessed with long thigh-bones, the only way I can endure a couple of hours in most of their seats is to try to sit bolt upright and hope that cramp doesn't set in too viciously.

How general is this? It may of course cease to be a problem if larger venues struggle...

We now mostly go to places where chairs may be moved and where there's preferably a chance of sliding out to the bar or loo. Tends to be clubs or sessions rather than theatres. More intimate, and more, er, folky.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 12:13 PM

Bieber only playing all-seater gigs

"Saturday, February 19 2011, 15:24 GMT
By Paul Millar, TV Reporter
© WENN / Lia Toby


Justin Bieber will only play in all-seater venues for his upcoming tour, his bodyguard has insisted.

The 'Never Let You Go' singer, who will perform tracks from his latest album My World, will have extra protection from his hardcore fans.

"You've got a mob pushing," Kenneth Hamilton told Rolling Stone magazine, "and even if it's little girls, they're crawling on top of each other with their arms and elbows, and getting injured.".. "


well... errrrm... meanwhile in an alternative dimension universe somewhere near you..


"Screaming hysterical folk music fans invade local Arts Centre stage....
scores hospitalised, many serious injuries, unconfirmed fatalities.
Reports emerging of attempts to identify missing popular folk singers
from Dental records
and DNA on shreds of clothing and hair
found in possession of detained souveneir hunting folk fans.
Greiving families demand inquiry into inadequate security and prior removal of comfy seats"....

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 07:58 PM

To Adrian and the Unthanks: thank you for the response, which I really appreciate. I've been away all day and haven't quite had chance to absorb your long post. The thread has attracted some negative comments about your playing, which is off-topic and not at all what I intended and is certainly something I do not agree with, and obviously that's something beyond my control, and I regret that. I'm not going to get back to the Phoenix box office on this occasion, as I would feel very awkward at the gig now, having bagged three seats for my slightly-disabled self and my two relatively able-bodied companions! I shall look out for future gigs and feel sure I will see you in full flight sometime in the future.

Cheers

Steve Shaw

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Rain Dog
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 12:05 PM

Because of all the other people blocking your view?

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 11:58 AM

I have already done so and apologised for that misapprehension, Raymond ~~ 04.49 AM above.

Noted, belatedly, Michael!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: stallion
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 11:21 AM

I hope the Unthanks post was not aimed at me! The last time I let a performer know what i thought to his face we had to be dragged apart, took exception to mild criticism and was in fighting mood. As for the rest I was defending their position. As to their target audience demographic it would tend towards the older end of the spectrum and those bums NEED seats, thirty years ago I wouldn't have given a toss, now, with arthritis in one knee and a dodgy ticker, I do. I think the lasses have fine voices and seem genuinly at ease with the music they are playing and if they are appealing to a wider audience then fair play to them.
Peter Outhart

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 10:13 AM

And as a Tynesider born and bred, I can confirm that the Unthanks do indeed sing in their own regional accent. Wake up at the back, Michael! ======

I have already done so and apologised for that misapprehension, Raymond ~~ 04.49 AM above.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 10:12 AM

Thankyou[unthanks] for the response, but whats this crap about slander ETC.
I am quite prepared to repeat anything I have said on this forum to the faces of the Unthanks, should they ask my opinion, on the occasion when I couldnt understand one word of one of the Unthanks songs,I did not mention it as IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATE, it would have created an unecessary unpleasant atmosphere in an otherwise pleasant singaroun.,
however if they had asked my opinion, I would have repeated what i have said on this forum, number one purpose of a song is for the words to be understood, in person it would probably be easier to put over constructive criticism,in a more diplomatic way, body language makes this easier in person than on the net.
I do not hide my identity.I am Dick Miles,in fairness I enjoyed the other youtube clips of The Unthanks

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:57 AM

Manners spareth the scars!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Larry
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:55 AM

Seems fairly straight forward: you can't please all of the people all of the time. That the original poster is not going to see them is a pity but understandable in his/her circumstances. I, like Ruth Archer and Spleen like my live music standing up and so would not go to see, for instance, 3DM or The Levellers sitting down.   However ... seeing the Unthanks ... this is a bit of a puzzle as I have never really 'got' them.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:51 AM

"People naturally find it easier to be blunt about someone on a forum rather than to their face: it's a matter of good manners. "

Not sure about that, Raymond. I would never say anything on here that I wouldn't say to the person's face. Got the scars to prove it :0

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: raymond greenoaken
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:42 AM

" The initial author and many of the contributors have made interesting and welcome debate, but others are rude in a way I suspect they would never dare to be in person, yet it is taken no less personally by us. Making and releasing art makes an artist subject to criticism but not to abuse and slander, nor does making art, however successfully, give the artist any thicker skin than the next person."

Mudcat is a place of robust debate. That's the nature of a forum. People naturally find it easier to be blunt about someone on a forum rather than to their face: it's a matter of good manners. Making art DOES make you subject to abuse in a culture of free speech. It comes with the territory. Has an artist the right to say: don't be rude to me, I'm as thin-skinned as the next person? If you need consolation, count your CD sales.

And as a Tynesider born and bred, I can confirm that the Unthanks do indeed sing in their own regional accent. Wake up at the back, Michael!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:23 AM

Sorry, that last Guest was me - not logged in - and sent before I'd seen the Unthanks lengthy and thoughtful response.

Nevertheless it does raise the question of balance at these venues. It seems its fine if you're actually disabled, or if you can persuade the management that you're an old crock who can't stand for too long. If not, you just have to put up with it. I'm 57 and fairly fit and active, but I wouldn't want to stand for several hours no matter who was appearing.

It seems to me that standing venues are more excluding than seated ones, on the basis that it's more of a hardship being forced to stand when you don't want to than being forced to sit.

If a band - and I'm not specifically addressing the Unthanks - wants to go into a "youth" venue which is normally standing and intends to arract that venue's usual audience who expect that, that's one thing. If it's playing a more general venue, such as an arts centre, then it seems to me that it should seek a better balance between the needs of all its audience, which means providing adequate seating for those who want it.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Mad Spaniel
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 09:12 AM

Adrian,

Thank you for your frank and honest reply.
It's a debate that will always go on and on and i'm pretty sure your fans will come and see you whatever and whenever.
Box offices are always inundated with enquiries and request (i know i work in one) and sometimes you know the answer you give won't supply the caller with the solution they require, particularly if tickets have sold well.

To be honest i don't mind standing if the artist, band, act, suit it and i reckon a 10 piece band are going to make a pretty big noise.
But as you say venues should make provision for the less able and as a priority not an afterthought.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 08:59 AM

I'm wondering whether this is more of a generational thing than an age thing. When I was younger we didn't usually feel the urge to jig about, even during instrumental pieces - on the contrary, I can remember a seated audience (of students, at a university folk club) listening in rapt attention to Boys of the Lough and enjoying their instrumental virtuosity. Songs and instrumental pieces demanded, and received, close attention, which you can't give if you're dancing. If we wanted to dance we went to a ceilidh. I don't think we'd have expected to have to stand at a concert. I even remember going to see Steeleye Span in the Student Union main hall, and even then in the absence of chairs most of the audience preferred to sit on the floor (although a very few jigged around in the corner, and I think were considered a bit of a distraction).

I can see that for some bands this may be less important than the overall vibe - Bellowhead being the obvious example - and I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. However I think those bands are the exceptions, and from what I've seen of the Unthanks (and I admit I'm not a fan) I shouldn't have thought they were one of them. With most folk performers the song is still the main thing, and should be listened to rather than danced to.

I also wonder whether this attitude is due to the sheer ubiquity of music nowadays. Youngsters these days seem to be unable to function unless they're plugged into an ipod - that's fine at one level but I wonder if they know how to really listen to music.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: maeve
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 08:38 AM

Adrian McNally & The Unthanks-

That is a gracious reply. Thank you.

Maeve

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,THE UNTHANKS
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 08:09 AM

Oh behalf of The Unthanks, I'd like to thank 'Arthur itis' for drawing this matter to our attention, and giving us the opportunity to see if we can do something about it, and I would like firstly to address the original author of this thread directly. Unfortunately, the only way I can do that is through this board.

Steve, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I have spoken directly with Exeter Phoenix today. It is true that they have an allocation for wheelchair users, and a number of seats for those unable to stand for whatever reason. The number of seats depends on the number of wheelchair users - ie. if there are no wheelchair users, there are 18 seats, but the more wheelchair users, the more seats they remove to make space. They also liaise personally with wheelchair users to ask whether they would prefer to be in this allocated space (raised at that back, like a balcony, accessed with an elevator) or right down the front where they are given and welcome to have front row access amongst the standers. The limited seating available is given out on a first come first served basis, but there is also some subjectivity to the way in which it is granted. Box office staff are encouraged to make sure that they don't give the seating away willy-nilly, in case the next caller has physical ailments that entirely prohibit them from standing. This assessment is also subject to the point at which the enquiry is made, ie. if there is only 3 days to go and there is still 80% of the seating available, they are more likely to grant seating than they are if there is a month to go and only 20% available. Such a system is clearly open to interpretation, which is a good thing (rules can be flexible to common sense and human judgement) and a bad thing (one interpreter of the rules might be more aggressive or relaxed than another!).

I have spoken with the centre's director, and he has promised to alert box office staff to your enquiry Steve, so that if you call again, they can assess your enquiry again. As we don't have contact details for you, that's as much as we can do. The director's personal opinion at this point? - with you having some physical difficulties and your companions being in their sixties, he felt that you should be granted the 3 tickets you require, based on a combination of your needs and the fact that the majority of the seating is still available.. in other words, you have no cause to feel that you are taking up the last of the allocated seating, to the detriment of someone with greater needs, as was one of your concerns.

This I hope, addresses your concerns, but perhaps not the wider issue of standing gigs, and the resulting scarcity of provision for those who want or need to sit. Firstly, I don't think we've ever done a show where there hasn't been some sort of provision for seating. But regardless, the decision to do standing gigs is never a money making consideration. Sure, it may be a decision based on providing more tickets for people to see us, but that's not a financial move, it's a move to make sure that the amount of people that want to come and see us in a given town are not disappointed! Off the top of my head, I can think of two venues - Exeter Phoenix and Norwich Arts Centre - that we now do mainly standing, when once we used to play those venues fully seated. The reason is partly because there aren't suitable larger venues in those towns, and even if there is, it is partly because we value the intimacy of small venues, and try and find ways of resisting the move to larger, less personal venues. Sometimes the only way to do that without disappointing fans with a show that is sold out before they know it, is to go for standing downstairs. The decision to hold on to a smaller venue rather than moving on to a larger one is entirely with our audience in mind, from the point of view of intimacy, communication, sound quality, atmosphere. We are also in the business of trying to honour the little guys who supported us from the start, as opposed to moving on to a bigger venue without them. In some cases, that results in us playing a venue on consecutive nights, so that we can meet demand without increasing the venue size. When that happens, we incur twice the overheads by playing a venue twice, instead of moving to a venue that would only incur the costs of playing one night. Sometimes it involves us staying loyal to a small promoter, rather than accepting the advances of bigger fish. Furthermore, we have found that our standing shows have electric atmospheres, that the audience is much more responsive, and because people end up much closer to the stage, the connection we get with the whites of peoples
eyes is invaluable, in terms of communication, and breaking down the barrier between stage and audience, between artist and viewer.

We enjoy playing in churches, theatres, folk clubs, concert halls, sticky standing indie clubs, folk festivals, mainstream festivals and we enjoy the challenge of thriving in all of them, and I make no apologies for it, because the reason we do so is to please and attract people from as many different demographics as possible. For example, in Leeds, mostly we play at Howard Assembly Rooms, which is a beautiful seated venue belonging to Opera North. The average age of our audience there is probably about 50. But last time we played Leeds, we played the Brudnell Social Club, which is a standing rock venue, and the audience was completely different. The purpose of playing the latter venue is to develop new and younger audiences for folk music. The only way to do that is to go to them - to play where they go, where they relate to. But we're not on a single mission. The next Leeds show is back at the stately Howard Assembly Rooms, where we risk alienating (not to mention out-pricing) our younger audience, just as we risk alienating our older audience by playing Brudnell Social Club. We do this because we are philanthropists, interested in preaching to the unconverted. It is not that we are more interested in one audience more than another. It is more that we are prepared to do as much as we can to introduce folk music to as many music lovers as possible. We are no less interested in playing to the old than we are the young. And even if we were less interested in 'folkies' and the folk world than in more mainstream worlds, how on earth could we hope to distinguish a 60 year old folkie from a 60 year old into everything from Elvis Presley to Laura Marling to Rage Against the Machine?! The point there is, other types of music have older fans too.

I agree completely that some venues don't try hard enough with their access, and it is something we take seriously. It seems to me however that Exeter Phoenix take it very seriously, and have a page dedicated to it on their website. In my own personal opinion, there are very few great venues left, and we frequently feel that whatever option we take, it is more a lesser evil than a great option. Please bear in mind also however, that while I have been manager, agent, label, producer, pianist and tour manager for a long time, I am no longer our agent and not always in full knowledge or control of our touring plans. We work very hard, but we have gone past the point at which we have time to do everything ourselves. The reason we have tried to deal directly and personally with every facet of the music industry for so long (apart from the cold fact that we can't afford professionals to do it for us) is precisely so that we have as much control over our music and our audience's experience as possible, guarding against the prospect of success equaling the delegation of decisions to people who may not be as sensitive to our wishes and concerns. 'Arthur Itis', who brought this matter to my attention, last saw us performing at a Primary School in Lincs. Had we been looked after by a big London agency, this school's enquiry would never even have reached our ears for consideration, and while we have to say all the time to enquiries, the headmaster in the instance struck me as being on quite a remarkable quest with what he was trying to do with music and his semi-rural community. The personal contact allow me to assess his case on merit, not on money, or cool, or our aims and objectives. So, we came of stage at the ultra cooling, all standing festival Crossing Borders in Holland, jumped on a plane and with practically no sleep at all and another show a long way away the next night, we went to play at the primary school, first in the afternoon for the kids, and then again in the evening, after we'd done some workshops too, and then we have the pleasure of staying with the headmaster, his lovely wife and children, and what a great night we had.

In case anyone thinks this statement of independence is hypocritical given our licensing deal to EMI, our deal with them is one which offers them no artistic interference at all, nor do they seek it. Their impact on our career is purely a question of using their marketing and distribution infrastructure to reach as many people with our music as possible. It is up to every individual to decide what they listen to. When you listen to ours, it is from us, but it may have been brought to your attention in a way that we alone could have reached you alone, because we do not have the manpower, expertise or finance.

Do not think for a second that our touring motives our financial. If they were, we wouldn't be putting out a 10 piece band that is not financially sustainable in the size of venues we are playing! Despite our perceived success, the core members of The Unthanks, including myself, still haven't made it into five figures, in terms of personal annual earnings. We'd probably be better off on the social! And if our touring motives were financial, our shows would consist purely of playing in seated, comfortable, well facilitated arts centres and theatres. That's because such venues (very generally speaking) have a higher average audience age and a higher socio-economic audience group. Put in brutal terms, we could quite easily play cosy provincial arts centres and theatres for the rest of our days, playing to audiences with higher disposable income, with more money to spend on CDs and higher ticket prices. And at these shows, the backstage facilities are better, we're well treated, well fed, the shows finish earlier and we get a lot more rest. The majority of standing shows we do are aimed at cultivating new and younger audiences for folk music, and it has been a long and expensive investment, playing in large city centres, in under-equipped venues with sticky carpets and that charge you a hire fee to play there. If there is any part of our audience demographic that we are disappointed in, it is the young, not the old! Of course, I'm generalizing enormously now and exaggerating and being tongue in cheek to make a point, but the fact is, youngsters growing up now have so many different types of leisure options available to them, that music does not occupy the same places in youth culture as it once did, let alone folk music. So we're determined to try twice as hard to make sure we are doing our bit to keep this music alive amongst new generations, as well as been heartily glad and appreciative of every single person who chooses to spend their hard earned cash on coming to see us, regardless of generation or musical persuasion. I myself am a grumpy old man in the making, and both Rachel and I spend the majority of our little free time either with our ancient parents and our toddler nephews, rather than on our own generation, and at 37 and 33 respectively, we don't regard ourselves as young anyway! And when our UK tour starts in March, Rachel will be nearly 7 months pregnant, and will most likely have her own chair on stage!!!

Please note that this is a statement and not an attempt to enter into conversation. Such forums ought to be healthy places for democratic discussion and debate, but are frequently places to make vicious, insulting, personal remarks behind anonymous aliases, and to assert wildly inaccurate information or ill-informed prejudice that quickly adopts the impression of public opinion, as if the subjects you insult do not have ears, feelings, insecurities, families. That is why you will never find an Unthank reading or contributing to these pages, and why I regret having to make this statement through this channel. The initial author and many of the contributors have made interesting and welcome debate, but others are rude in a way I suspect they would never dare to be in person, yet it is taken no less personally by us. Making and releasing art makes an artist subject to criticism but not to abuse and slander, nor does making art, however successfully, give the artist any thicker skin than the next person.

Nevertheless, anyone who has concerns or problems of any kind in relation to being able to see our shows is welcome to approach us directly.
While I write as manager as well as member of The Unthanks, I do not necessarily represent the views of all members of The Unthanks.
Adrian McNally
The Unthanks.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 07:55 AM

Fair enough Dick

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 07:35 AM

I agree Black belt,
Arthuritis, to the contrary I enjoyed Patience Kershaw, however my constructive criticism, was just that.. constructive criticism.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 07:26 AM

Sorry to be controversial but I think that i'm actually more of a fan of Rachael and Becky's father George!
Might be a session and dance team player thing.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 05:29 AM

Well said Silas.

May i also correct one thing.

Adrian is no longer the agent. That I know, through an email conversation with him.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Marje
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:53 AM

A partly-seated concert would seem to be a good solution, but I can't see that putting the seats at the back would work - the seated people wouldn't be able to see. You'd either have to put the seats at the front or (better) have a half-length row of seats down the middle, with space at the sides for people who preferred to stand/dance.

Narje

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:49 AM

I apologise. My comment about the Mid-Atlantic accent was due to insufficiently careful listening. Having listened to Here's The Tender Coming, I fully accept that it is their own accent in which they sing.

Very sorry about that.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Allan Conn
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:23 AM

"don't really see the "mid atlantic accent" maybe a bid to make geordie understandable"

I kind of agree with you there. To me they if anything they often put a stress on their own local accent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q24_9K9tAw

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Silas
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:22 AM

OK.

The Unthanks and anyone else for that matter are not only in the business of entertaining us, they also have to make a living. I would never attend an all standing event, however, if it is advertised as an all standing event, I or anyone else has the choice to attend or not. I really don't see what the problem is. If you don't want to stand, don't go, simples. There is no need to slag them off about it.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 04:01 AM

They're self managed. Adrian McNally is agent, producer, pianist and husband. First album was released on his label too.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Thomas Hine
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 03:57 AM

I have enjoyed the Unthanks, and while sitting, and can see why sitting should be an option - but the pointlessness of gigs where you have to sit through a jig or a reel is far more common and annoying in my experience. With people like Bellowhead this is obvious, but others like Katherine Tickell the mood changes, and with it the position!

This shows me why festivals are so good - Trowbridge with limited seating at the back, an open sided marquee with grass outside and lots of floor where you can do as you will - the result? Pleasant anarchy! So much better than you MUST stand/sit.(perhaps this preference is because I am 29?)

Bring a deckchair or 3 to the Pheonix.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: stallion
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 03:37 AM

Thank you A for the links. From the comments I was expecting to see a load of cobblers, they are not bad, take note from what Dick said about the breathy singing, it annoys the shit out of me but the kids are buying it, don't really see the "mid atlantic accent" maybe a bid to make geordie understandable. Seems to me that they have two audiences and they will not please all of them all of the time but I think have the ability to do both. Oh dear, Patience Kershaw, very flat interpretation in my opinion I have heard better interpretations, that is quite a personal veiw and we are all different. Back to the thread, what really dictates the standing / sitting thing is the performance. There is a band in Cumbria (almost a Pogues tribute band), Bag of Spanners, who are very good and almost impossible to sit still to as were the York band Los Yobbos. As Lizzie pointed out sometimes it doesn't feel right to sit still. But for the four tracks I heard that doesn't seem so for their gig and may not be the venue for them. The problem lay with their management not them. The probable scenario is that someone will aproach the management and say I have ten venues all over the country you can have all ten for this price, boom boom, one phone call ten gigs.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Feb 11 - 02:48 AM

Alf and Sadie at Sidmouth...mebbe the Ham marquee should set up a mosh pit for the cloggers?

Unthanks music is variable to me. Just like many artists. There is stuff I love, stuff I like and stuff I say Nothanks to.

The girls did a brill (very sensitive) job on the BBC documentary on English trad dance late last year. For that they get a thumbs up from me. And I am neither English nor dancer.

signed - Tamara from Virginia USA with no sense of rhythm (i.e. having a collection of other peoples left feet over which I have no control).

p.s. If ever I want to attend a concert that is standing only, I will explain my physical limits and request a folding chair. If refused (which I think unlikely) then I will take the matter to the performer's management and finally to the performers themselves.

p.p.s. As to the matter of not planning for the older physically limited fan, please start writing to the performers. They need to know that either management or venues are selecting their audiences for them.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:57 PM

so we all flung Health & Safety to the wind

What a great idea.

And had anyone been injured you would have said?........

And what did the Directors (including your ex-husband) say to this? Do you actually realise what an arse you appear to be?

I am no more health and safety obsessive than the next person. But I do know accidents in crowds happen a lot. Usually because some pillock has ignored the Health and Safety rules in force.

Ever seen a festival venue emptied for fire? Or a heart attack. On both those occasions the stewards ensured people's safety. They don't need smart arses like you.

Tell you what Lizzie if you have any friends in America - go and visit them there and throw a few Health and Safety rules to the wind. See how long you stay out of jail.

And by the way I live close to Hillsborough. I heard the ambulances.

WTF this has to do with the Unthanks I don't really know. Sorry for the thread drift folks, but I didn't start it.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:44 PM

Michael
i know quite a few who dislike them, so maybe that was a wrong comment. "You luv en or ate em. They just dislike their style.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:41 PM

Quite so, Arthur; so I don't agree with your comment above that 'you either love them or hate them'. I do neither. I admire their voices, react negatively to their mid-Atlantic delivery: but in sum neither love nor hate them; simply recognise them as talented but not my sort of thing.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:36 PM

They are very good GSS, but maybe not to your liking.

Let's be fair, You are not to everybodys liking as well. But I am not going to criticise you.

Thank goodness we are all different!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:29 PM

ok so the diction on Patience Kershaw is much better, but the instruments[although well arranged are a little too loud in relation to the voice]the lead singers phrasing[a bit breathy, and interpretation a bit bland.
But, an imaginative instrumental arrangement, the lead singer seemed to lack projection, is that a result of perpetually working with mikes, however it was much better than my previous experience of them, and potentially they could be very good.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 04:18 PM

I can't stand for long periods of time (that's why I need my chair at Cambridge) so I never go anywhere where I have to stand. Several local venues have seat upstairs and standing downstairs, which suits everyone. At one all-standing concert I asked if I could sit down and the man at the Box Office told me that I could sit down but I wouldn't be able to see anything!

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:31 PM

No problems

The Unthanks perform The Testimony of Patience Kershaw

The Unthanks perform Sexy Sadie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftAlWsvG3Ns&feature=related

The Unthanks on Later with Jools Holland Live BBC Folk Northumbria 27th October 2009

You either luv em or ate em!

I managed to get a chat with them once and they are really nice young ladies. Very nice to talk to and doing what they believe in.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:11 PM

Guest999 ~ I found out by just googling them on youtube. I found they had quite nice voices but could have been subject of posts on a thread I OPd last Nov which ran till 25th of last month on why British singers often insist on singing British [or their own] songs with American accents. The thread was called 'Mid-Atlantic accent. Why?' ~ a question I found myself asking about the Northumbrian Unthanks.

~M~

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:08 PM

Thank you, Arthur.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 03:00 PM

http://rachelunthank.com/index.htm

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:58 PM

I'm at a loss. Who are the Unthanks?

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:57 PM

Well I just did that VT

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: GUEST,Graham
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:36 PM

Listening to Front Row right now. Enjoying what I'm hearing of the new album (lots of Australian Radio sessions easily found online if you're interested). Is it folk? The question that's echoed down the ages.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:33 PM

Here is the email address to contact them

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:27 PM

uuhhmmm... Why not contact he artists and their management people about this issue?

I mean ok have a moan here on Mudcat if you like. But then do something about it. An email or letter explaining how disappointed you and your (insert number of friends) were to miss a concert due to restrictions against people who cannot stand for long periods may make them think about the needs of the fans who are their customers.

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:04 PM

I've just heard that there's an item on the Unthanks in Radio 4's Front Row this evening (after the Archers) - but I suspect this topic won't feature!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Why I won't be seeing the Unthanks
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 01:59 PM

Not only would I not stand for it, but I'd just say, "Thanks, but UNTHANKS"