BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami 11-Mar-2011

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 07:10 PM

How will a looming nuclear disaster as well as the earthquake (which pales in comparison), effect the rest of the world?

Financially only about 10 to 20% of Japan's losses are covered by insurance.

Insurance does not cover natural disasters of nuclear accidents. Even your home owners policy will say this.
The special insurance for natural and atomic accidents is sold in large part by AIG. 70% of AIG is in receivership to the taxpayers of the US. AIG would need a bail out to cover the pay outs.

Toyota and Nissan are shut down with no reopendate in mind.

Imagine buying a product from Japan you might suspect of being radiocative. Not good for nusiness.

Hyundai will take over the Toyota market share of Toyota and Nissan for a year or more.

Japan has a current debt margin of 200% compared to the United States debt margin of 25%

After WW2 the US had a margin of 100.



The US will have to provide money and rescources equivenant to what we spend in Iraq and Afghanistan every week which is about 2.5 billion.
If we are serious about saving Japan, we should consider declaring victory in Afghanistan this coming Monday and shift to help Japan. As Bush senior said "Na-gonna-doit"



Again if the N plants (one or more) melt down there will be more death than there was in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but in slow motion voer decades.

There is no such thing as one possible outcome.

The outcome of a meltdown ranges from an enormous bomb event to a persistant radiation event that is difficult to ever clean up as water explodes from a deep radioactive hole in the ground. If the Zircon shield at the bottom of the ractor holds the way the 3 MIle Island Plant did, we all all be very luckey indeed. Since the N plants are next to the sea. I'm sure you can see the difficulty containing the problem if it goes catasatrophic.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 07:08 PM

Tsumani warning in effect now..Japan E.Q the other thread on the disaster


Japan earthquake live - links to reports, pics & videos
At least 402 people have been killed but Japan's Jiji Press News agency said police and other data showed that the total number of quake dead and missing topped 1,000.

Japan Earthquake in photos

Whirlpool forms after Japan earthquake

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 06:45 PM

IF TWO OR MORE NUCLEAR PLANTS IN JAPAN MELTDOWN BEYOND THE CONTAINMENT BUILDING:

Wind currents will disperse radiocative cesium, Iodine, Strongtium, plutonium and other nasty atoms world wide.

Of the dizens if nuclear plants in Japan, currently the oldest one bulit in 1960 and finished in 1970 is in the most serious condition of being unable to cool the fuel rods which are now venting radiactive steam. Once the unclooled water turns entirely to steam the fuel will melt and may or may not be contained in the old brittle vessel. The steel in an old plant being bombarded by protons and neutrons for decades will behave like steet that is hundreds of years old. If heated or cooled rapidly the steel will crack wide open. This N plant has no electricty to run the cooling pumps after the back up generators flooded, the back up batteries have run out hours ago.
This part is speculative but when it was reported that Russia and America are rushing "COOLENT" to Japan's N plant it may be refferring to powered boroon to dump on top of the reactor to ease the risk of ...gulp detonation...the wame way Russian firefighters did on Chernobyl. All the first responding firefighters who dumped the boron from helicopters died within weeks.

A second critical N plant is also having trouble cooling down.


Hilary Clinton said we are sending coolant to Japan. The airforce says they they do not know of any flights of coolant.
(Maybe we shipped it Federal Express?!)

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 06:42 PM

My wife's family is safe. Her brother is in Tokyo and her parents and aunt are in Tochigi Prefecture. They all felt the shaking and my brother-in-law lost his Martin but they are all safe. Aunt Sachiko spent the night in a neighbor's car because of the aftershocks but they all are fine today.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 06:32 PM

In the weeks to come please buy and take Iodine pills as directed. Stop drinking milk and cheeses made after the end of March.
Momitor or measure radioactivity in outside swimming pools.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:49 PM

Watched a tragic film-clip on the BBC, taken from an aircraft, where drivers on a highway failed to get away from a surge travelling about 5 times faster than any vehicle can.

I hope I'm wrong but, despite the good organisation and preparation in Japan, sadly, it looks to me like 1000s of others must have died.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:34 PM

PS

My friend Maki is stuck trainless in Tokyo, but no injuries amongst his family friends and co-workers.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:33 PM

"A theory I been playing with since the last tsunami from a Mathematician view. Does the increased frequency of deep water drilling have a cause / effect in the increased frequency of major earth quakes and tsunami events."

Interesting thoiught, but not a chance. The tectonic stresses accumulate on a timescale waaaayyyyyy longer than human activity. And the stress re-adjustments due to slip on a fault redistribute the stresses locally - not globally. Lots and lots of seismic and direct in-situ stress measurments to support this.

Humans can fuck up lots of things (and can even trigger some - samll so far - earthquakes...see Sichuan 2008, Rocky Mt. Arsenal in the 1970s etc.) But causing an earthquake in Japan from drilling elsewhere on another plate? No possible way.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:28 PM

There's been 'a surge in radiation levels' and evacuation zone is expanded to 10 km. Not looking good at all.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:24 PM

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:22 PM

That's true, Ruth. Best wishes for your friends...

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:17 PM

Thanks, Becky. I've been keeping an eye on the nuclear plant situation all day. I have been thinking that no news is good news, as there haven't been any pictures of Fukushima City, but then one of the reports I saw online called it one of the 3 places worst affected - and another talked about partial collapse in several schools in Fukushima prefecture. So just in knots, really, till we get more news.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:13 PM

Ruth, it looks like Fukushima City is away from the coast, and earthquake damage was not too bad (a factory building did collapse), but the nuclear power plant that is in trouble is in Fukushima Prefecture. They have evacuated an area within a 2-mile radius of the plant.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:10 PM

The situation with the Fukushima nuclear plant looks much more frightening than a few hours ago.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=8389

http://twitter.com/search?q=%23JPQuake

http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/3788886037/nuclear-crisis-at-fukushima

10km radius evacuation zone.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 04:49 PM

My daughter went on an exchange with Minami High School in Fukushima City in the autumn. Their girls came over and stayed with us last summer. We haven't heard anything yet about how things are in Fukushima City, but it's close to the epicentre, near Sendai. Will be quite distressed until we hear something about the girls and their families, or at least about the city and the school.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 04:14 PM

One death reported now in Crescent City, California, where 4 people were swept away by the surge. One person is still not accounted for.

Nothing to compare to the the horrifying results in Japan, but still sobering that an event on the other side of the Pacific could cause this.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 03:26 PM

Southern Calif. doesn't seem to be reporting any damage; beaches have been closed and I would think that anyone living on a boat has been warned to leave.

There has been marina damage in Santa Cruz and especially in Crescent City, which is just below the Oregon border and was devastated by a tsunami in 1964. Apparently the dropoff of the continental shelf off the coast of northern California and southern Oregon amplifies and complicates the effects of any incoming tsunami waves.

In Morro Bay, about 3 hours north of L.A., they evacuated people from low-lying areas, and had some damage to boats and docks. I'm planning to visit there with my son next week.

In San Diego, they're reporting no noticeable waves.

In the L.A. area, Redondo Beach residents were hoping that a surge of water would help clear out a huge kill of sardines in the marina...

~ Becky in Long Beach (southcoast L.A.)

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:45 PM

My friends in Honolulu are safe. Now I'm waiting for my son to contact his son in Chula Vista, CA. My 10-year-old grandson lives on a boat in a marina with his mom and other grandparents. My son, like me, lives in RI, where my grandson also lived until he was 8. The tsunami should be greatly diminished by the time it reaches (has reached?) southern CA. Last i heard, the CA family didn't have Internet access on their boat, so I probably won't hear anything until tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:32 PM

I was responding to the post before gnu's

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:32 PM

In the light of that last comment it is good to bear in mind Japanese nuclear power plants are built with earthquakes of this magnitude in mind. Yet, the cooling system of the one in question is damaged beyond quick repair and while meltdown is not immediately on the cards, anonymous officials at various nuclear power safety agencies are still considering it a real, worst case scenario, possibility.

88.000 people reported missing at this point according to some news outlets.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: gnu
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:24 PM

You have a point Charley. However, there is such a thing as "reasonably safe" nukes. Unfortunately, politicians won't spend the money to build them. One example... build them with with very costly containment systems in remote areas which are not prone to earthquakes. But that at least triples the cost.

Another earthquake near Nagano just now.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:10 PM

Every person who has advocated on this forum in favor of nuclear power should reconsider their position. However, I don't expect that to happen with regard to a couple of individuals here.

Those of us who have opposed nuclear power since the partial meltdown of Three Mile Island in 1979 and the meltdown of Chernobyl in 1986, have become increasingly concerned about the resurgence of corporate and citizen support for "safe nuclear energy."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 01:59 PM

This is horrible! My deepest sympathies to the people involved.

Already on here, and other parts of the Internet, there seem to be a variety of responses. The most worrying and contemptible are people making racist comments against the Japanese (not on Mudcat, I hasten to add!). Then there are those who are looking for someone to blame - God, drilling for oil etc., etc. Then there are the religious nutters - the less said about them, the better.

I think that the only things that we can blame are the size of our populations and the complexity of our infrastructures. The Earth has always been restless and dangerous - just to pick one example, 74,000 years ago the Sumatran super-volcano, Toba, erupted and covered most of the Indian sub-continent with up to 10 ft of ash; this apparently had a profound effect on the future of humanity. But populations were tiny then, and a comparative 'handful' of people died.

Now there are vast populations, plus their buildings, vehicles, power plants etc. in the way of each shrug and mutter of the planet. We have succeeded in replacing a neat little bullseye with several huge barn doors. Sadly, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: gnu
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 01:55 PM

Just heard the core temp in the reactor is rising. The PM is expected to fly over the area soon... I have no idea why.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 01:17 PM

The level of destruction from this one is pretty incredible. Those waves have done an extraordinary amount of damage.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 01:06 PM

Here's a bit more of an update on the two damaged nuclear plants from CNN: click here for update!

The area around the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant was evacuated. The emergency cooling system is still not functioning properly but plant officials claim that the situation in "now under control."

A second plant experienced a fire in its turbine hall (non-nuclear side of the plant) but reports that the fire has now been put out.

The earthquake experienced was beyond what the plants were designed to withstand.

If we think back to Chernobyl in 1986, we know what a worse case scenario can do, hundreds of thousands of people exposed to unsafe levels of radiation.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: maeve
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 12:50 PM

Thinking of all people affected...especially my sister and her family in Palau.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 12:49 PM

One big concern has to be the damaged nuclear power plant in Northern Japan. Evidently there is structural damage and the emergency cooling system is not functioning properly.

There is some video, reports of damage in the control room, some minor radiation release but not much more detail at this point. I would hope that evacuations have been ordered.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Brian May
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 12:48 PM

> I think we're very significant personally. <

OK

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: ClaireBear
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 12:36 PM

Here across the big pond from Japan, a few sailboats have broken loose in the tidal surges in Santa Cruz (California) harbor and are wreaking havoc on the other, still moored yachts. Our tsunami is only a foot high so far, but apparently it is packing some punch even so.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 12:19 PM

I think we're very significant personally.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Brian May
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:36 AM

With our piddly little drills, set against the hole created by a volcano et al, I don't think we make diddly squat difference.

It's just Nature showing us who's boss. This has been going on since time immemorial but affecting Man since he's been around, a piddly few thousand years.

We really are quite insignificant when you think of it.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:30 AM

Crap. All I can say is crap.

And pray for the survivors...I hope help is already on the way.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: olddude
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:16 AM

My wife is a Fulbright scholar. She did a month trip to Japan a few years ago on a Fulbright Scholarship and spent a month with a family in Tokyo .. I can only pray that they are alright. They have been good friends to her and my family ever since ... they have two small kids. I pray they are ok

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:00 AM

Most of Tokyo is made in anticipation of earthquakes. It'll take a while to re-establish communication links, but it'll be done, Mario. I'm sure your family members are safe.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: MMario
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:53 AM

My neice is in Toyko - cell phones are out and train are not running; Her family is a walking home from wherever they were...her father in law finished his 9 holes of golf before leaving to walk home!

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:43 AM

The following list issued by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration gives estimated arrival times for the tsunami along the North American Pacific Coast.

NOTE: The listing of times does not indicate a wave is imminent. Listed time is for the initial wave arrival, though tsunamis can be dangerous for many hours after arrival.

The Alaska/British Columbia border         0538 PST
Langara Island, British Columbia         0543 PST
The north tip of Vancouver Island         0626 PST
Tofino, British Columbia         0706 PST
Prince Rupert, British Columbia         0711 PS
The Washington-British Columbia border         0712 PST
Bella Bella, British Columbia         0812 PST
Wave arrival times for selected U.S. locations on the Pacific coast

Shemya, Alaska         0020 AKST
Dutch Harbor, Alaska         0228 AKST
St. Paul, Alaska         0239 AKST
Kodiak, Alaska         0358 AKST
Port Alexander, Alaska         0434 AKST
Valdez, Alaska         0443 AKST
Homer, Alaska         0516 AKST
Juneau, Alaska         0543 AKST
The Oregon-Washington border         0720 PST
Fort Bragg, California         0728 PST
Westport, Washington         0732 PST
San Francisco, California         0816 PST
Newport Beach, California         0845 PST
Seattle, Washington         0851 PST

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:37 AM

Just read that high waves are NOT expected. I expect that communities located on creeks or rivers that empty into the Pacific should pay attention to what's happening. Water likes to follow rivers, etc., both ways because the mouths are real real close to sea level. Boats moored close to shore are in some danger of getting pushed around, but it will be nowhere near the devastation suffered in Japan.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:28 AM

Low-lying communities in British Columbia (Canada's west coast) have and are being evacuated. The expected arrival time is in about three hours.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: olddude
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:28 AM

A theory I been playing with since the last tsunami from a Mathematician view. Does the increased frequency of deep water drilling have a cause / effect in the increased frequency of major earth quakes and tsunami events.

A geologist would say No, no proof bad science. A mathematician studying chaos theory would say anything is possible via butterfly effect, we just haven't plotted it yet. Looking at data from over 50 years .. it is one thread that emerges. However, no one can prove it -"yet"

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Hollowfox
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:27 AM

Wow. Are you Pacific Rim folks all right? I fired up the $#!@-reduction candles for a bit before work, for what they're worth. Can we help with anything here?

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: gnu
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:18 AM

Sandra... the video is horrifying.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:12 AM

I just posted links to pics & videos on the other thread, I hadn't seen this one

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: olddude
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:08 AM

It is just terrible, my thoughts and prayers go out to all those who were affected ... I have been watching CNN, terrible photo's of the tsunami damage after the quake

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: gnu
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:06 AM

4.5 in Hawaii.

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:00 AM

Most powerful earthquake in the world for 140 years , apparently

Worst in Japan in 140 years. Not world. Doesn't even come within the 25 strongest in the world. Valdivia, Chile, May 1960, holds the record with a 9.5 magnitude while the St Stephen's Day 2004 quake near Indonesia was a 9.1

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 07:53 AM

There are tsunami warning across the Pacific, as far west as Hawaii. One wonders about the coast of Southern California.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: gnu
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 07:50 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709598

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: gnu
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 07:48 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709791

Subject: RE: BS: 8.9 earthquake off Japan, tsunami
From: Lox
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:17 AM

Horrific scenes - very worrying!