BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA

Subject: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 06:13 AM

We've been watching news reports regarding the severe tornado hits in Alabama and beyond. President Obama has declared a State of Emergency for Alabama. ABC News That link contains information regarding the projected path of the system.

Several Mudcatters are in the general path of the storm system. Please take good care, friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 06:23 AM

Some photos, here: http://www.latimes.com/na-tornado-gallery,0,6068109.photogallery

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 07:27 AM

No such things as 'Global Warming', I'm informed...

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 07:36 AM

Global warming or not, my concern is for those folks that are in the path of this severe weather system. More than 80 people are reported to have died just in Alabama. Storm patterns like this one occur whenever conditions are right. Both the size of the individual storms and length of time in contact with the ground are factors that made this system deadly.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:13 AM

Yeah, thank god there's no link between carbon emissions, greenhouse gasses, global climate change and all this increasingly violent weather.

Hope all the folks in the paths of these storms will remember to keep voting the Republican ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:54 AM

Greg, I have no argument with those who perceive links between the factors you mention and severe weather patterns. There are other threads for the discussions to which you refer, or you are free to start a thread for further discussion.

The intent of this thread is to be aware of the people affected by this set of tornadoes; particularly Mudcat friends who may be in or near the affected areas.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:57 AM

tornado warnings here in north florida seem to have abated. rain is winding down. my worry is hurricane season, yet again. we've been spared the last few years. I've got my roof money set aside...

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:58 AM

We're in a motorhome in Lexington, SC and had a sleepless night as this storm went through here, and we're still under a tornado watch. It's so scary to be 900 miles from home (CT) in a camper in a bad storm. We were also worried about friends in N. Wilkesboro, NC who are already at Merlefest (our destination) who got the advancing storm first. To make things worse, there's a train line right near the campground, and every time a train went through it blew it's whistle, making me think it was a tornado siren. And planes overhead sounding like the rumble of a tornado.

The storm is apparently advancing right across to the east coast, so we'll probably get back to New England just in time for round two.

I'm so sad for the families who weren't as lucky as us in this horrendous storm.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:59 AM

It's good to hear from you, hg. Good luck with hurricane season!

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:02 AM

I'm glad you're safe, Barbara. I've been living in a camper; I know how insecure I felt during strong storms this winter and spring. May the rest of your trip be less stressful!

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:05 AM

Being as there is so much help. that these people NEED, do you think the Government could take some of the money that was set aside to fund Obamacare, and help these people?

And to Fooles Troupe, and Greg F, politicizing this emergency, is not only inappropriate, its just down right asinine! Maybe 'Global Warming' has affected your brains!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:24 AM

Here's a link to an article with further information.

http://www.kansas.com/2011/04/18/1812482/241-tornadoes-reported-over-14.html

Please be aware that '241 tornado reports' does not equate to '241 tornadoes' because more than one person can report the same tornado.

=========
Like Maeve and Sanity, I feel little in common with those here who learn of disaster and only spout canned media wisdom in response.

I agree that global warming is real, but terror and suffering ought to provoke SOME kind of empathy.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:29 AM

Thanks, leeneia. Here's your link as a blue clicky: http://www.kansas.com/2011/04/18/1812482/241-tornadoes-reported-over-14.html

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:05 AM

Here, just north of DC, we have watched small, intense cells of weather move past & over us. There was a tornado on the ground at Andrews Air Force base last night. (I am listening to thunder as I type, but the worst 'seems' to be past.) Areas near the Chesapeake Bay got it worse, and the are trees and lines down in several place, but no widespread damage or injuries...

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:10 AM

And to Fooles Troupe, and Greg F, politicizing this emergency, is not only inappropriate.


Of course I empathize with anyone caught in the paths of these horrors, but Politicising? Surely you realize that this "emergency" is a man-made event?

Chickens coming home to roost, as it were.

I also feel sorry these days for anyone voting Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:11 AM

Thanks for the update, Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:23 AM

We're still under a tornado watch in Lexington County, SC. Sun comes out and looks like the storm is over and then another wave rolls in and we get a downpour and heavy winds. So far we still have neighbors at the campground, which is comforting!

I hate to add to the "blowhards" but I firmly believe the increasingly turbulent weather is a result of global warming and the things we've done to the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:47 AM

On NPR they cited that meteroligists were saying they NEVER saw a weather pattern like this in all their lives. I believe it's global warming too. There's just been SO many disasters this year; can't all be coincidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:48 AM

Extreme winds here all night but spared the punishment that the south got.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:52 AM

That's fine; global warming may well be involved, Barbara. No arguments here, folks. I was kind of hoping to keep the thread to the plight of the endangered people, that's all.

Who else in Mudcatville may be affected? We don't need to make a list; just maybe each of us could check in on those for whom we have concerns. Those in the tornado track might check in here so we know you're ok, as have hg, Barbara Shaw, and Bill D. I know that olddude is fine; the storms missed his town.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:53 AM

Thanks, Spaw. I'm glad you're ok.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:57 AM

Seeing Spaw's post has reminded me that I need to revive my sense of humor. I'm from southern Ct, the "land of steady habits" where we get the 4 seasons every year, complain about too much snow or too little rain or too much August humidity or a hurricane every 5 years or so, but not the extremes the rest of the country seems to deal with. Nor do we usually deal with earthquakes, tsunamis, mudslides, wildfires, dust storms, and most specifically at the moment, tornadoes.

The term "tornado" strikes terror in my heart, and hunkering down in a 30 foot metal box (camper) 900 miles away from home with a raging thunderstorm and tornado watch going on is not my idea of a good time, nor do I intend to make a steady habit of it!

Do I sound homesick? Yes, but first Merlefest!

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: maeve
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 12:02 PM

It's a frightening experience to be sure, Barbara. Several times this last year I was certain our camper was going to be blown into the burned out foundation. Watching one's house burn down is terrifying, and as you said, liable to reduce the usual steady supply of humor and equilibrium.

Have a great time at Merlefest, then head safely on home to Connecticut!

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:00 PM

Lefty: "On NPR they cited that meteroligists were saying they NEVER saw a weather pattern like this in all their lives."


Get another 'news' source!!!!


"Hey, bar-keep...make mine a double!"

...but that was before they invented that SUV's were making 'Global Farting'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:08 PM

Driving back from Richmond (VA) last night towards Charlottesville, I was treated to an amazing light show that turned out to be thunderstorms killling about 8 people... wow. It was amazing and I was looking for a north-side-of-a-hill which is apparently the best place to be if you are in the Northern Hemisphere as the tornadoes spin roughly northwards, and when they go over a hill they kind of lose their bottom for a bit. This from an ex-friend who grew up in Oklahoma watching tornadoes miss his house, which was so situated.

Central VA got whacked last night but Charlottesville was spared, again.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM

A headline just said 248 dead. I hope we get in the habit of building weatherproof houses soon. And require all mobile home parks and campgrounds to have sturdy concrete shelters. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:53 PM

A reasonably "factual" summary of the latest storms is at MSNBC:

Storms ...

The video at the top of the page is a fairly typical "TV News" thing, but the text article gives a fairly reasoned report of the damage.

The more interesting part for some may be the 41-image "photoblog" at the bottom of the article.

Conventional wisdom says that the annual "tornado season" doesn't start in Kansas until May, although commemorative events were held locally a couple of days ago for the "20th anniversy" of the 1991 F5 that went through Augusta then. (It was barely at F4 when it passed through here on its way there - approx 30 miles downwind.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 04:45 PM

"Get another 'news' source!!!!"

Well, GfS...you know 1974 wasn't exactly yesterday.Some of the forecasters were still in grade school then. And many of these locations ARE seeing very unusual patterns and intensity. My favorite local weatherman, Bob Ryan, says 'we' have not seen any bunch of serious tornadoes for many, many years.

'Global warming' is not really the correct term right now, but there IS "Global climate change" that is causing patterns to alter...and in many cases, to mean more intense weather....and 'warming' is part OF that....ask the Inuit, who can't find solid ice to do certain types of fishing.

   Changes in ocean currents and various human activities are also involved... it is just hard to say 'exactly' how much.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 05:00 PM

Bill D: "...'Global warming' is not really the correct term right now, but there IS "Global climate change" that is causing patterns to alter..."

A fart by any other name, still stinks! 'Global Warming' is from cyclical sunspot activity, which has nothing to do with the SUV induced fad that was so 'popular' with pseudo environmentalists!....anymore than the caldera in Yellowstone, or the ocean bottom warming up 1500 miles west of South America!..or earthquakes in Japan, and various other spots in the 'Ring of Fire'.
When Greenland was named, it was because at one time, it was a lot greener, due to the climate back then.....WHICH was BEFORE the internal combustion engine!..or even industrialized factories!!
Fair enough?....(Why not?...Those are FACTS!!)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: saulgoldie
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 05:25 PM

It *may* be global *climate change.* It does not matter to me, and I do not care if the victims accept the possibility. I do not care who they voted for, or whether they *accept* the reality that Obama is American, born and bred. None of that matters. My heart goes out to the *people* who are suffering because of this horrible turn in fortune. I wish them well, and I hope that the gummint will do whatever it takes to attempt to repair their shattered lives inasmuch as that is even possible. G-d bless the dead, and RIP.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 05:41 PM

My heart goes out to the people who are suffering because they voted to help create the horrible turn in fortune they are now experiencing.

I hope that the gummint will do whatever it takes to attempt to repair their shattered lives

No, No NO!. Gummint is the PROBLEM, not the solution. You don't want to snare these people into the Cycle Of Dependency or they'll be looking for gumming handouts forever..

They'll just have to pull themselves up by their own Republican bootstraps.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 08:11 PM

"'Global Warming' is from cyclical sunspot activity...."

Oh....pooh! Who told you that? I see that silly theory every now & then, but there are legions of experts who do NOT subscribe to such a simplistic answer.
Sure, Greenland has been warmer in the past...and there have been glaciers in Ohio in the past. Climate DOES fluctuate over thousands of years, and 'some' of the causes are known....but NEVER before has the earth had to deal with humans burning fossil fuel and other activities.

Many of past warmings were associated with heightened CO2 emissions from natural sources...but calculations DO indicate the WE are now a serious source.

Now...you can accept that or deny it, but *I* think it is wise to treat it as if it is true, because cutting down on the stuff we do can only improve life.

"Err on the side of caution"

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:16 PM

Bill D: "..Now...you can accept that or deny it, but *I* think it is wise to treat it as if it is true, because cutting down on the stuff we do can only improve life..."

..and 95% of forest fires are caused by trees!...Well, you might as well, ""Err on the side of caution"

Another bottom of the barrel!!
If you think that man is doing more than the sun, to raise the temperature of the earth, I know of this bridge in New York for sale..I'll send my 'broker' Ally Way Slim 'Fingers' Malone!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:44 PM

I am concerned for good friends who may in the path - take care.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Janie
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:28 PM

Appreciate your effort, maeve.

The scenes of destruction are heart-breaking.

It occurred to me this past weekend that I would probably be wiser to go outside and lay in the ditch during tornado warnings than to huddle in the narrow, central hallway of my very small house that is surrounded by 22 tall trees, some of them quite large in girth.

If I could afford it, I do believe I would build a small storm cellar.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:37 PM

This is indeed a terrible situation. I understand that tornado warnings extended as far north as New York. I have not heard of any harm to my family or friends and hope all Mudcatters can say the same. However, I feel badly for those whose family and friends have been affected.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:47 PM

"95% of forest fires are caused by trees!."

False analogy....

"If you think that man is doing more than the sun, to raise the temperature of the earth,..."

I'll let YOU look up which fallacy that is

..but it's not a matter of whether man is doing more...or less...than the sun, but whether man is doing too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:54 PM

I watched videos of damage in Alabama tonight... as much as I could take. It is beyond anything I have seen since Udall, Kansas was wiped out in 1956, near where I lived.

No final count of casualties even in yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 12:05 AM

I guess you just didn't get it..but that's OK....
However, I made a 'boo-boo'....Not 'Sunspots', but, solar flare activity.....and if you want to believe that the Yellowstone caldera, and the ocean floor off South America heating up is because of man, hey, go right ahead...but I wouldn't tell anyone! They would probably be too polite to tell you what they really thought of you, to your face! As for me, I'll just tell you the truth, the best I can, and if it upsets your sense of 'politically correct' nonsense, I guess I'll just go away peacefully.....then laugh my head off!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Janie
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 12:30 AM

*sigh*




Is there any other weather event that strikes as randomly and with the quick, similar destruction as tornados?

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 01:41 AM

I talked with my North Carolina brother in law this morning. No tornado came close to their home, which is in Newton, close to Hickory.

They don't have s storm cellar but they do have a fully equipped and supplied basement and he said that is where they would head if need be.

His daughter is an RN and on her way to see a client ran into very heavy rain about 50 miles away. She said that when she drove out of the rain, it was like a band of weather that ended abruptly.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 02:36 AM

Ebbie, I wish them the very best!!!..and hope they remain safe!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Penny S.
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 03:07 AM

I saw some horrific images online, in a video, and at times really wondered about the cameraman's wisdom, as he headed towards the tornado - but that one was only a small one, and broke up as it crossed a road. The largest one he filmed looked terrifying. I understand that the loss of life is now confirmed at about 300, with more missing. This isn't the time to engage in pointless arguments about causes, but to pick up the pieces.
And to ensure that trailer home parks in tornado areas have adequate shelters, and very good insurance. (I have wondered before why this style of living is found there...)
Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: gnu
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 07:03 AM

Tragic and horrific.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 11:17 AM

Heard an interview with a man who survived with his wife and two boys. One boy was lifted up and flown away but found mom and dad by following a flashlight beam. He asked his parents if they would have to move and they said yes - at least for a while. Poor little one then asked if they could be sure to get a house with a cellar. Dad promised that they would never again live in a house without a cellar.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Penny S.
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 04:56 PM

How lucky that lad was.

I read of cases where houses had been lifted up and dropped back on the sheltering occupants.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 09:31 PM

I have some friends in Athens and two colleagues in Tuscaloosa. The friends and one of the colleagues (and his family) are safe, though without power at the moment. Haven't heard one way or another about the other colleague, although he may well have been out of town.

To reply to mg's and Penny's comments:

It is almost impossible to make something "weatherproof", particularly when facing an EF4 or EF5 tornado. Basically the only thing that would survive a direct (or even glancing) blow from a tornado of that magnitude would be a solid concrete or solid grouted (and reinforced) masonry box. All sides, including the roof. And no windows, or thick multi-paned impact-resistant ones. Kind of expensive to build a whole building that way, and good luck getting any cell or wireless service inside. You can build resistant structures at the lower magnitudes (EF0 to EF2, even maybe EF3) where the wind speeds are consistent with a Category 4 or 5 hurricane.

As for the popularity of manufactured (i.e. mobile) homes...well, the average cost of a house in the US is around $220,000 give or take. That's a $44,000 downpayment at 20% (traditional mortgage) or $11,000 at 5% (new FHA loan standards). The former is more than a lot of people make in a year. If those folks don't want to live in an apartment...well, a manufactured home is about all they can afford.

-- Gary

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 12:47 AM

Here in RI, most homes have cellars. Even my condo has a full cellar. A friend tried in the late 70s to buy a home with a flat roof and built on a slab but no one here was willing to finance a mortgage. Reasons? No cellar (considered essential here during hurricanes when wind damage is significant, though tornadoes here have been rare) and the flat roof which could collapse under snow. However, I've had toured other parts of the US and asked guides if homes have cellars and been told no because they are built on top of rock. I feel bad for people who live in areas where tornados are unusual so their homes weren't built for the people to survive the recent ones in their locale.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 07:49 AM

I think I'd want to live in a hobbithole if I lived in a place with that kind of climate.

But the trouble is, the climate everywhere seems liable to be changing pretty drastically.

Subject: RE: BS: Severe Tornado Outbreak, USA
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 10:06 AM

Yes McGrath - you are sane. The Fuckwit GFS knows he is! Masturbating for Jesus again...