Football Is it time for Cameras ?

Subject: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 May 11 - 06:16 AM

Hi

After watching the Chelsea v Tottenham game on TV when two very obvious ( to the cameras) wrong decisions were made to award goals I am changing my mind about allowing technical assistance for referees.

I have always been against allowing technical intervention as I believed that it would interfere with the flow of the game. Now however in the days when it can take anything up to 5 minutes to take a free kick, interference seems to be less of a problem.

The decisions yesterday could be very fortunate ones for Chelsea and calamitous for Tottenham as they look likely to miss out on Champions League qualification through this.

Tottenham seem unlucky with goal-line decisions. One of the most obvious ones I have ever seen was was the Mendes "goal that never was " against Manchester United. I was there and even to me and the crowd around me ( all Man U supporters ) it was obvious that Carroll had droppped the ball way over the goal line.

After seeing many wrong decisions awarded in many games this season is it time for a change ??

What does the team think ???

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 May 11 - 06:35 AM

It works well in tennis and Rugby Union, but in football there are too many players willing to cheat and they are frightened of not getting away with it.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 01 May 11 - 06:46 AM

What the F**** has this to do with music?

Hoot

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: Fergie
Date: 01 May 11 - 07:04 AM

I think this should be below the line, down in the bullshite section.

Soccer is only a game and a pretty poor one at that, ninety minutes of huff and puff, feigning, diving, cheating, pulling and dragging by overpaid, pompous and dishonest whingers.
The beautiful game has been ruined by too much money.

Today in Croke Park, two teams of hurlers, one representing Dublin and the other representing Kilkenny, will contest the national league final in front of 50,000 spectators, (and upwards of 1 million television viewers) there will be no segregation of supporters, there will be no trouble. It will be exciting from start to finish, there will be respect, passion, committment, superb skills and honest endeavour, tempers may flare and players may eyeball each other with intent, but when the final whistle is blown everybody concerned will put aside their passions and have a few drinks together in harmony and mutual friendship. Gaelic hurling (and football) is completely amateur, players do not get paid but they train and prepare the same as professionals.
Soccer has sold its soul to the highest bidder.

Fergus

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: alanabit
Date: 01 May 11 - 07:53 AM

Fergus, this does indeed belong below the line and I do not think any of us need to worrry about that. A moderator will soon spot it and down it will go.
I sincerely hope you enjoy your hurling match and indeed I would be glad if football fans always behaved with as much dignity and respect for each other. In actual fact, many of them do. I saw the unsavoury side of some travelling Man United fans earlier in the week, but no doubt others have seen the unsavoury side of the more boorish supporters of my team (Man City) at times too. On the other hand, MikeL2 and Cheshire Cat are both Man Utd fans and men whom I would wish to watch a game with and drink a couple of pints with afterwards too. They were both gracious in defeat two weeks ago when City progressed to the FA Cup Final - and I have no doubt that there are many of their ilk among the ranks of Man Utd fans. Football can and frequently does encapsulate all the virtues, which you identify with your chosen sport. I do not wish to rain on your parade so I am at a loss to see why you would wish to rain on ours.

Getting back to Mike's original post, I reluctantly concede he is right. The Luddite option of "Let's muddle through", will eventually be unsustainable in a society, which is in a position to see clearly (on occasion) when a mistake has been made. Anything less than making the best use of technology will reduce the credibilty of referees and indeed the whole of the game.
I do have a small reservation. In the World Cup, had Frank Lampard's goal been allowed against Germany, it may well have turned the game. Fortunately for football as a whole, it was disallowed, because it would have been a travesty had England escaped the thrashing, which they thoroughly deserved. By all accounts yesterday the right result was reached by two erroneous refereeing decisions. Refereeing mistakes do not always ultimately result in injustice!

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:13 PM

hi Guys

I do understand that this belongs below the line but when I started the thread I couldn't find anything that would take it there.

As Alan says someone will soon pick it up and place it where it should be.....who said in the trash bin ????

Sorry for inconveniemcing anyone.

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:13 PM

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: Arnie
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:21 PM

Agreed goal line technology is overdue - it's only Sepp Blatter who is holding things up, and the sooner he goes the better. Good win for City today but it's a real shocker for West Ham who look destined for the CCC and a new manager next season.

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:23 PM

While it's above the line anyway, here's a great hurling song

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: MikeL2
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:29 PM

hi alan

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments.

1. Real football supporters understand the game and what it should represent. Unfortunately there ( as there are in most walks of life) those that try to spoil everything for the majority. I support Manchester United but I go to watch both teams, who-ever they are playing. Win or lose I try to judge how good the game was. Of course when we lose - like today !!! - I am disappointed but I get on with my life.

2. Yes I applaud City for reaching the Final even though it was at the expense of my own team. They deserved it because they were the better side on the day. I will be shouting for them in two weeks time.
Congrats Alan on today's result. Seems like we could meet in Europe next year. We might even get to have that pint together. Loser pays eh ??

3.With regard to the use of technology. I really can't see any good reason not to adopt some form of visual validation to assist the referee and officials with their increasingly difficult job.

I used to play cricket & rugby union and long argued against the use of cameras but as now both have used them, I have to concede that I was wrong. Of course it is not the perfect answer - things can still go wrong - but what in life is perfect ???

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: Fergie
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:57 PM

Hi alanabit,

not trying to rain on your parade. I love soccer also, but I am tired of the way it (and the English Premiership in particular) has been hijacked by big money. The result is that sportmanship and fairplay has taken second place to winning at any cost by cheating, diving etc. etc. etc.

Goal line technology won't change that.

Fergus

P.S. Dublin won their first Hurling League title since 1939 by a score of 0-22 to Kilkenny's 1-7, that's a winning margin of 12 points. The Dubs were superb. Kilkenny are the aristocrats of Gaelic Hurling and Dublin's progress and achievement at Croke Park today augers well for this years Hurling Championship.

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 May 11 - 04:30 PM

Used successfully now in tennis also, as well as cricket & rugby. Has been used in racing - horse & greyhound - for god know how long; why, 'photo-finish' is a dead metaphor. & everyone wonders what we ever did without it, and feels ripped off when watching games on an out-court, or at one of the minor tournaments, where "Cyclops" or "Hawkeye" aren't available.

So of course it will come in football. With, it is to be hoped, the sensible sort of restriction. e.g. as to be used only by ref & his assistants, or on request for limited # of appeals by manager or captain only [as, mutatis mutandis, in tennis - only 3 unsuccessful appeals per set].

It could work perfectly well; and is surely bound to come; and there will be no more idiocy like that goal awarded to Chelsea the other night when Gomes made yet another cock-up in Spurs' goal; but every commentator & commenter agreed that it hadn't crossed the line & the Asst ref couldn't conceivably have seen from where he was anyhow.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 May 11 - 04:35 PM

"I do understand that this belongs below the line but when I started the thread I couldn't find anything that would take it there.

Did you click the options box?

WHEN you start a new thread there is a box saying "common prefix" (optional)...with menu options. One option is "BS-non music". That puts it down below.

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: gnu
Date: 01 May 11 - 04:54 PM

Definitely BUT... the Yanks have a system that works and that limits the intrusion of "technology" on the flow of the game. It's called a Red Flag. Each coach has a Red Flag and he can throw it on the field if he wishes to challenege a call. When done, senior referees review video from all angles and render a decision. If they rescind the on field decision, the coach gets his flag back. If they are not able to CONCLUSIVELY overturn the decision or if they agree with the on field decision, the coach loses that red flag. The coach is allowed only so many Red Flags and he must use them wisely.

That's it in a snippet. It works... not perfectly, but far better than "only humans" on the field.

Matter of fact, I say it's far beyond time for this to be used in football... on the goal... NOT of offside calls even if a goal results. Of course, I dunno how that could be instituted "fairly"... am I off base on that?

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 May 11 - 05:08 PM

Gnu ~~ I think offside is a separate issue: I once started a thread which went on a good while on why I thought the rule should be abolished anyhow. But my point in saying this now is that I think, with apologies, your lat point over-detailed. The thing we should be thinking of here is whether the use of technology would be welcome at all. The questions as to what it should specifically cover should surely come later?

~M~

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: gnu
Date: 01 May 11 - 05:14 PM

Hmmmm... perhaps I should be more specific on the offside thing.

If there is no offside call, there is no call to challenge. That's the can of worms with an offside challenge whether it results in a goal or not.

Same goes for cards. I have seen cards issued that were obviously incorrect on video replay but NO WAY would I want such reviewed by an off field ref.

But, those are all details for consideration. Goal line reviews... I say yes.

In the Yank system, some "plays" are automatically reviewed without the Red Flag challenge in the final two minutes. I dunno if such would apply in football... can't think of any cases off the top of my head.

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: gnu
Date: 01 May 11 - 06:19 PM

Cart/horse/cart. If ya dunno what cart the horse is gonna pull...

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: michaelr
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:19 PM

Way overdue. I've seen too many bad calls to count since, and including, the past World Cup.

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:19 PM

About the topic in general. Because there are TV cameras with instant replay available, often from 3-4 angles, and the audience will know- usually immediately - whether a call is correct, it seems almost ludicrous NOT to allow proper results when there is doubt. Not on every trivial bit of action, but as mentioned, the coach should have the ability to question those events which might seriously affect the score...especially in Soccer/football where so few goals are scored.

The referees will still have plenty to do.....

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:24 PM

"Kilkenny are the aristocrats of Gaelic Hurling"

Whatever happened to Tipp?

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:48 AM

It has obvious ever since Maradonna's piece of cheating.

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: alanabit
Date: 02 May 11 - 06:55 AM

Maradonna's cheating was outrageous, of course, but that was another game in which the right result was achieved by foul means. England had been cheating the whole game up until that point by blocking, holding and fouling their way through the game. The Argentinians played England off the park that day - as they did in 1998, another game which has been emotively mythologised - and thoroughly deserved to win. I am for the new technology, but as I said before, the mistakes of the past have often had the effect of delivering the right result.
I am up for that pint if everything works out Mike!

Subject: RE: Football Is it time for Cameras ?
From: MikeL2
Date: 07 May 11 - 05:49 AM

Hi


I see Fergie has asked for the referee ( Howard Webb) to be on his toes in Sunday's game against Chelsea.

Webb is England's best referee and one of the best in the world but IMHO without technology to help in the occasional difficult decisions that occur we will always have this type of crossfire coming from the managers.

Sunday is a big big game and it would be a tragedy if the League title were to be decided on a "no-goal" decision as occurred last week.

Naturally as a Manchester United supporter I want them to win. I will be at the game from where I am meeting up with my wife in Wales to spend a week's walking. So win or lose I will not be around here to comment.

This being the case may I take the opportunity of wishing Alan and Manchester City all the best and trust that they have a great day and get the win that I believe they deserve.

Cheers

MikeL2