A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat

Subject: A misleading DT note
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 May 11 - 02:47 PM

The following note, appended to the DT version of "All Round My Hat I will wear the green willow",

"Recorded by Steeleye Span on All Around My Hat.
Note: This hit the pop charts in England in 1975 and made
the Top Five, the highest chart placing ever for a traditional song. MJ"

is about as wrong as it could be. The DT's is the true mournful transportation version of the song. The Steeleye recording was a travesty, for some reason using a tune more or less related, and an 'All Round'... chorus, as setting for the lyrics of the song "Farewell He", a variant of "Let Him Go, Let Him Tarry".

So the above note is thoroughly misleading. I am not sure whether, or how, the DT can be amended; but can anything be done about this?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note
From: Tootler
Date: 05 May 11 - 03:09 PM

The following note, appended to the DT version of "All Round My Hat I will wear the green willow",

"Recorded by Steeleye Span on All Around My Hat.
Note: This hit the pop charts in England in 1975 and made
the Top Five, the highest chart placing ever for a traditional song. MJ"

is about as wrong as it could be.

No it is not.

Whatever you might personally think about Steeleye Span's version of "All Around My Hat", the note at the bottom of that particular entry in the DT is correct as the song given above it is the one recorded by Steeleye Span.

That it is, as you say, a chorus from one song with the verses from another is correct and you could argue the case for a note to this effect about Steeleye Span's version, but the note at the bottom of that particular DT entry is correct as far as it goes.

You are also incorrect in saying it is appended to the DT version of "All around my hat I will wear the green willow", it is appended to the DT entry for "All Around My Hat". The DT entry for "All Around My Hat (I will wear the green willow)" is the one for the original song and does not contain the note about Steeleye Span's recording.

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 May 11 - 03:36 PM

The melody display in the online Digital Tradition (click) comes from an external source, 8notes.com, which in turn gets and converts the melody and and attached lyrics from the downloadable 2002 edition of the Digital Tradition. We have at least five versions or parodies of "All Around My Hat," and the lyrics with the melodies do not always match the lyrics in the song entry. Each melody in the DT has attached lyrics that do not always match the primary set of lyrics for the entry - we may use the same melody entry for several sets of lyrics. So, it's confusing.
That being said, the notes Mike cited are certainly apropos to the Steeleye Span lyrics in the DT - (click) - the note just doesn't match the lyrics attached to the tune.

The Steeleye Span rendition of the song blames the young man for being a "false deluding young man," and the theme of the song is, "Good riddance!"

The traditional lyrics are quite different, lamenting the exile of a female lover by a cruel judge and jury that falsely convicted her of thievery. The two songs have many elements in common, but they tell totally different stories.

And I like both.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 May 11 - 04:09 PM

What you have not seen is that the same note is appended to the one which I carefully specified as the one titled "ARMH I will wear the green willow", as well as to the one, simply titled as "ARMH", which shows the Steeleye lyrics. You didn't check before rushing to contradict me, did you Toots?

~M~

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 May 11 - 04:12 PM

===You are also incorrect in saying it is appended to the DT version of "All around my hat I will wear the green willow", it is appended to the DT entry for "All Around My Hat". The DT entry for "All Around My Hat (I will wear the green willow)" is the one for the original song and does not contain the note about Steeleye Span's recording.---

Yes it does ~~ I it is the one I copied & pasted for my OP entry.

~M~

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 May 11 - 04:18 PM

Here it is again: last verse of the "(I will wear the green willow)" version + the erroneous note ~~

~~Some young men there are who are preciously deceitful,
A-coaxin' of the fair young maids they mean to lead astray
As soon as they deceive them, so cruelly they leave them
I'll love my love forever though she's far, far away

Recorded by Steeleye Span on All Around My Hat.
Note: This hit the pop charts in England in 1975 and made
the Top Five, the highest chart placing ever for a traditional song. MJ
@courtship @parting @transportation
filename[ ROUNDHAT
TUNE FILE: ROUNDHAT
CLICK TO PLAY~~

Now, stop arguing, eh?

I AM NOT STUPID!

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 May 11 - 04:40 PM

How twue, how twue!

I'll report it, Mike. Good catch!

Can you suggest appropriate explanatory notes for All Around My Hat (I Will Wear the Green Willow) [filename[ ROUNDHAT]? Anybody know the source of this version?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 05 May 11 - 06:10 PM

Meanwhile, enjoy this bit of classic children's TV: Steeleye Span on Crackerjack

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Tootler
Date: 05 May 11 - 07:29 PM

I admit my mistake. I was in a bit of a hurry when I saw your post - I was about to go out - and failed to check the "wear the green willow version properly"

Now, stop arguing, eh?

I AM NOT STUPID!

Was that really necessary?

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 May 11 - 11:08 PM

I leave that to others to judge...

For that matter, was "admitting your mistake", with excuse but without apology, all that was required, T.?

Again, no doubt judgment should be left to others...

Best regards

~M~

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 May 11 - 11:11 PM

---Can you suggest appropriate explanatory notes for All Around My Hat (I Will Wear the Green Willow) [filename[ ROUNDHAT]? Anybody know the source of this version?---
,,,,,
Joe ~ I have heard Brian Peters sing this version most admirably: he might be the person to ask.

Thank you for your kind words.

Best

~M~

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 06 May 11 - 12:52 AM

The real question about Steeleye Span on ' Crackerjack ' is how Peter Knight made his fiddle sound like a mandolin.

Dave H

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Brian Peters
Date: 06 May 11 - 05:29 AM

"I have heard Brian Peters sing this version most admirably: he might be the person to ask."

Thanks, Michael - you're as discerning a critic as ever. I based my version on the cockney costermonger's version, discussed in this previous thread (Malcolm Douglas, it seems, had already noted the incorrect Steeleye attribution). I decided, after much heart-searching, to omit the spoken asides like "Here's your fine cauliflowers" as I felt they didn't add much to the poignancy of the tale. I also missed out a verse or two. However the actual source of the version in the DT labelled 'All Around My Hat (I Will Wear the Green Willow' is - according to Malcolm - "the set recorded by Peter Kennedy from Harry Westaway at Belstone, Devon, in 1951", so perhaps this could now be corrected.

I've been inspired by MtheGM's reminder to find out a bit more about this song, and will post something else to the aforementioned thread.

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 06 May 11 - 06:25 AM

@ Brian...I'm disappointed you missed out the cauliflowers...

Peter Bellamy recorded what he termed a "clear and simple version" on Fair England's shore, recently re released by Fellside

Baz

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Tootler
Date: 06 May 11 - 06:36 AM

Michael,

I do apologise.

I felt that the tone of your original post was somewhat over the top as it did seem to me to say more than simply point out, what I assume, was a genuine error.

However, on reflection, I feel my original reply to your comment was somewhat intemperate and I ought to have left it and responded later when I'd had time to look properly.

I have no desire to get involved in a flame war so I hope we can let bygones be bygones.

Geoff

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 06 May 11 - 07:23 AM

If Steeleye were performing it on Crackerjack presumably they had cauliflowers!

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 May 11 - 10:34 AM

---I have no desire to get involved in a flame war so I hope we can let bygones be bygones.---

Of course Geoff; we all have our off moments, and my response was probably a bit intemperate also.

All best of traditional greetings

~Michael~

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Tootler
Date: 06 May 11 - 05:45 PM

Michael,

In light of your comments on Steeleye's version of All Around My Hat, there is an interesting post by Brian Peters in this thread.

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 May 11 - 11:54 PM

Many thanks, Geoff. I think Brian has actually refreshed that thread, indeed.
~M~

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 May 11 - 03:58 AM

Mmm... just listened to Steeleye's version of "All Around My Hat" (not listened to it for ages). I still think it's a cracking recording - certainly not a "travesty" - though tastes will vary, of course. Whatever one might think of the rightness or "correctness" or otherwise of the combination of the words and lyrics, the harmonies and playing on the record are beautifully done. And, as Brian Peters has said elsewhere, it seems that SS were just doing what thousands of others have done - adapting songs to suit themselves at the time.

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 May 11 - 12:13 AM

Well, yes, OK: I am not sure that 'travesty' was quite the word I was looking for. I agree that collation of one set of words with the tune generally associated with another set has been common practice ~ either deliberately or accidentally, as in notorious case of Andy Irvine & 'Willie of Winsbury': we have had many threads about it, haven't we! And indeed Steeleye's AAMH is a perfectly agreeable track and most accomplished in its performance. But I still don't quite see why Maddy should have thought the practice appropriate in this instance.

AND my main original point, that the attribution of another, earlier, variant to Steeleye Span in the DT was erroneous & misleading, still holds, does it not?

~M~

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 11 - 04:01 AM

Michael - no questioning your comment on the attribution ("A Question Of Attribution"...) - just through 'travesty' was a bit strong! :-)

Subject: RE: A misleading DT note - All Around My Hat
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 11 - 04:01 AM

"through" = "thought"