BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?

Subject: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 06:27 PM

Himself and I are thinking that next year it would be nice to see the Canaussian son again, so we are planning a trip in October. Because we are not getting any younger or richer this may have to be the last trip :-( so instead of flying Oz to Los Angeles then on to Tronna as we have done twice before, we thought it would be great to start off in Vancouver and......do what?

We could cross by train, a wee pit pricey but we could both relax and enjoy the scenery.

Or we could hire a car in Vancouver and drive across, we have been warned that the prairies are flat and dead shit boring, but we have flat and dead shit boring country here too so that doesn't bother us.

Or - this is my preferred option - we could cross the Rockies by train so we can both relax and enjoy the scenery, then in Jasper or Edmonton or somewhere else to be decided (depending where the train goes) we could hire a car and drive the rest of the way across the flat and dead shit boring (but easy driving, we have been told) prairies.

We welcome any ideas, suggestions, yes-do-this or no-don't-do-that ideas, and thank youse all in advance for such suggestions.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 06:35 PM

I think I would take the train across the praries too but I never have so???

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: meself
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 06:51 PM

And once you've got through "the flat and dead shit boring" prairies, you reach northern Ontario - and, believe me, if you enjoyed "the flat and dead shit boring" prairies, you'll be in absolute heaven as you pass the trees and rocks, rocks and trees, trees and rocks, rocks and trees of northern Ontario ....

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 06:51 PM

I think I'd fly into New York and Drive up through the Maritimes, Quebec and Ottawa. Unless you are dead set on seeing a thousand miles of prairie.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 07:10 PM

Well... I assume a train ride thru The Rockies would be a sight, but, no doubt Ontario and east would be far better than the prairies for sights.

If you miss The Picture Province... New Brunswick... well, your loss. Not to detract from Ontario, La Belle Province, and the rest of Atlantic Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 08:55 PM

DRIVE through the mountains and enjoy them at your leisure. You would miss so much on the train. Take the train across the flipping prairies and DRIVE from winnipeg through the glories of north of Superior and into Quebec and on to the marvels of atlantic Canada. Stop and visit us in Montreal. WE have a bed for you. Rest and enjoy the music of Quebec. Visit the cafe in Ormstown where we enjoy so many terrific musicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 09:24 PM

Sounds great, Dorothy! Jack, we want to start in Vancouver because we have friends in Victoria, and that's only a ferry ride away. And we want to end up in Tronna because that's Canaussian Son and his lovely Canadian girlfriend live.

The reason I am a little uncertain about driving across the Rockies is because of weather - what would we be likely to get in October, probably early in the month rather than later? I know weather in mountains can be changeable. Some years ago we drove in a blizzard in New Zealand in a hired motorhome, and it's not an experience either of us wishes to repeat in this lifetime. Canaussian Son recently said (when we chatted on Skype) that it's not too bad a trip, but he drove across in spring.

The timing is because autumn is my favourite season, the colours are much more beautiful than what we get here.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 09:29 PM

I agree, drive through the mountains. Half of the train trip across the Rockies is at night. Many nice places to stop on the way through.
I crossed the Prairies once on the way east- not so bad. The blue of flax, the yellow of Canola and mustard, and the green of the rest make the fields interesting.
I took the Canadian route through eastern Manitoba and above the lakes- land of one hell of a lot of lakes, and treed country- interesting to see once but not twice. This was the slowest-seeming part of the trip.
I don't know your destination, but if it is the whole way east, I enjoyed two trips along the St. Lawrence and into New Brunswick, and on to the Gaspe. I could spend many weeks in this region.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 09:35 PM

The fall colours in the Ottawa valley are UNREAL that time of year.

Might be worth a little side trip for the four of you on the 401 to Ottawa. Where is a lot to do and great food on the French side of the river!

I lived in Ottawa for a few years. I'm a bit of a booster.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 10:23 PM

The 401... ahhhh... seriously scarey piece of highway. A million lanes of traffic at a million miles per hour. The most congested high speed arterial piece of crap in NA. And I ain't shittin. Los Angeles, New York, etc, don't hold a candle to the 401.... that is a fact. Avoid the 401 unless you are in a vehicle with someone driving who knows the 401.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 10:29 PM

Only in Toronto Gnu. Out past Oshawa its just another divided highway.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 Aug 11 - 11:15 PM

We had considered the same trip earlier this year, but we (she) decided that the journey was less important than the destination(s), and that this gave us (her) an opportunity to see people we (she) hadn't seen for years. So, after a few stops in the Eastern US, we are flying to Halifax and VIA-railing to Montreal and on to Toronto, with a few days in each place. We (I) are looking forward to the train legs.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 03:25 AM

Several years ago I took the train from Toronto to Prince Rupert on the West Coast. I spent a little time - both coming and going - in Jasper which I really enjoyed. I would have liked going through Banff again but that wasn't the way the tracks went.

Weather in that high country can surprise you- some friends of mine drove through a snowstorm. In July.

On my trip I wasn't bored at any time- Someday I would like to take a train trip that stops every night so one would get to see and experience all the changes. I can tell you the birch forests are the stuff of dreams.

Driving may be cheaper than taking the train but taking a sleeper is much more relaxing. Canadian trains have wider beds - behind heavy drapes - than the USA Amtrak. They are plenty roomy enough for two people who like each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Beer
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 09:09 AM

I would take the train from Vancouver to Calgary that way you get to see some of the Prairies. Then I would fly to Thunder Bay Ontario. Skipping a good part of the prairies and the woods and rocks of most Northern Ontario. I would then drive the rest of the way through Ontario staying on the No. 7 or No. 2 highway. If you have lots of time you can loop over Toronto. Brother in law and I took 2 days from Ottawa to London (Ont.)without driving on pavement. Wonderful trip going through little villages.
Once you hit Quebec, hit for the "Café Namasthe" in Ormstown for an evening(every Friday.) of great music. Meet Dorothy, Bruce Murdoch, topicaltom and other caters like myself. Then off for the maritimes for some great food, drink, parties, making new friends and seeing some wonderful sites.
Ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: GUEST,Hi Lo
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 09:42 AM

Fly to Nova Scotia. stay there for a week, take the train to Vancouver, spectacular country all the way, even the "boring" prairies ate beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 10:36 AM

Why October? You are risking ice and snow in some parts of the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Beer
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 10:38 AM

Hi Lo,
a week in N.S. and they won't want to leave.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 11:04 AM

I've heard SUCH great things about taking a train across Canada. Although normally I'd say drive, I think I say train in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Cats
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 11:34 AM

Hire a camper and do the first bit through the rockies in that stopping where you want to and going where you want to. get to Calgary, hope on a train or internal flight tacross the plains then pick up another camper to do the rest.. wish i could come with you

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 11:46 AM

Good plan but a camper might not be the easiest thing in Toronto.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 01:42 PM

The trip from British Columbia through the Rockies to Alberta is spectacular by any route. Problem is you are in very high country and on a cloudy day you may find yourself in or above the cloud ceiling and see nothing. With a car you may have more flex in your travel time as well as the ability to stop and absorb the vista. Someday however, I would love to go by train down the Fraser Canyon. The prairies are beautiful in their own right and I did not find them boring at all. The north shore of Lake Superior is beautiful when you are in view of the water. If you cross Manitoulin Island you can take a ferry to the Bruce Peninsula and follow from there to Toronto. Superior and The Bruce should be ablaze with fall colour in October. Have a good trip! If you go farther east and are interested in Celtic music Cape Breton's Celtic Colours Festival is in mid October.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 01:47 PM

Cape Breton's Celtic Colours Festival... before I die...

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 01:49 PM

I'd ignore Ontario altogether, the rest of Canada does.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 02:18 PM

Yesh and Ontario is so easy to ignore especially Ottawa and Toronto.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 02:34 PM

The Big Smoke ignored? The Centre of the Universe? And, The Big Snore too?

How unCanuck!

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 02:56 PM

the further west one gets the less relevant Ontario and Ottawa become, it's th same in the USA, when asked where Washington DC was, someone pointed and said, somewhere over there.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 03:05 PM

I think most westerners outside California might pull out their wallets and say, "I don't know, but their hands are in here."

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: GUEST,Curtis
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 07:36 PM

Being from the prairies, I agree with BTNG, Toronto is not a big deal out here. I'd rather avoid it all together although that doesn't sound like something you'd want to do. I find the prairies quite interesting to drive across and, if you go through in October, you will hit my favourite season... Harvest.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: JennieG
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 07:47 PM

Thanks for all the advice. One thing we cannot do, despite being told (often!) to do so, is ignore Toronto - our son and his girlfriend live there, and the reason we are making the trip is to see them! Tronna is definitely on the agenda.

Sandy Mc Lean has some great ideas, thanks Sandy. Leeneia, autumn is my most very favouritest season and fall colours are beautiful 'up north'; we don't get as much here in country Oz.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 08:05 PM

Toronto is fantastic to visit. There are a million things to do and see. Take the ferry to the islands in the harbour!

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 08:32 PM

I've taken the train both ways, multiple bus trips in all seasons, hitched hiked, flown and one thing that doesn't change..it's long and wide... there are beautiful places all across if you have the time... the prairie sky is a wonder... lots of it and the elevation there is around 3000 ft so the stars are a wonder outside the cities... the weather can be wacky any time of the year... I once drove from Lake Louise Alta to Revelstoke BC in Feb. after a moderate snowfall at night... the full moon came out and turned it all into magic land.. so you never know... good luck, safe road.... and Toronto can be fun esp. if you have kin there... I do

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 09:12 PM

3000' elevation? I did NOT know that. Sounds like an amazing place to star watch! I would, NOW, definitely not skip the prairies. Cool... thanks, Ron. If win the lotto, that info will be handy. Full moon is a week from now so Lotto 6/49 better pay off on Wednesday. Lotto Max is Friday night and I can't collect until Monday but stargazing will be actually better in the following days... if I can see.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 11:47 PM

To see Canada at less than breakneck speed would take about 2 months not counting north of 60 which is another 3 weeks at least and another whole travel budget. So it comes to choices.

What are your must-sees and must-dos? Will you have time for a Mudgather while in Toronto area?

My own answer your OP question: Car. And yes certain stretches by train work nicely. To visit Canada entirely by train would be like visiting earth from an orbiting satellite. From the train you'll understand the geography without knowing the lives. Areas with overwhelming geography—mountains, southern prairie, northern Ontario to an extent but do see Lake Superior—these area benefit from a train view as it brings down their hugeness almost to comprehensible.

I hope you don't "train" the entire Prairies. The Canadian Prairie is not about "flat," it's about sky, wind and light, to be experienced, not to avoided. Also, I recall lightly rolling land in northern Saskatchewan (comparatively!) while dead-flat was southerly.

Tip to help with effective camper budgeting--Be aware when you are told that the RV gets 15 mpg highway (or whatever the km equivalent is), unless it's teeny tiny or made of titanium, you're hearing a bald-faced lie. Try 6-10. Worse in the mountains. A bit better if it's diesel, but to see 15 mpg you'll need to eat the same mushrooms the rental agent did. Considering the cost of fuel, maybe consider whether a small car and motels might serve well and leave a smaller carbon footprint.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: mg
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 12:54 AM

I would tend to take the train. There is a pass you can get for $545 if you wanted to stop several places, like Banff if it still goes there...that is if you are 60 or over.

I would either take the train or drive and stay in motels. I wouldn't mix air plus train plus car. You want to be aware of the weather--can be very severe thunderstorms at least in summer and I am not sure when snow starts in the mountains...but the train is lovely.

I think 2 seniors with sleeping compartment is about 3,000..very expensive. I think car would be cheaper. I have done it and it is a beautiful trip. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: ragdall
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 07:02 AM

Jennie,
If you decide to start your Canadian adventure in Vancouver and drive, please consider coming north through BC and staying with us? From our town it's an easy five hour drive to Jasper. We'll likely be in Vancouver on Thanksgiving weekend, driving home on October 7th or 8th, 2012. Other than that we should be at home in October.

If you happen to be leaving Vancouver that weekend, we'd be happy to act as guides along the way to our town. It's about ten hours driving time from Vancouver. You'll start your drive in a beautiful coastal rain forest, drive along a spectacular river canyon, pass through seven tunnels through mountains, follow another river through an interior desert, wind your way through Cariboo parkland (Ponderosa Pine, Aspen and grass) where cattle graze, and finally into a sub-boreal forest. You're likely to see deer and migrating waterfowl along the way.   

The drive through Jasper Park is wonderful. The mountain scenery is spectacular. Bighorn Sheep and Elk should be near the highway in October. September through October is the Elk mating season. The dominant bull elk have amazing antlers. You'd probably want to spend a night in the town of Jasper so you can have enough time to drive to some of the natural attractions in the area.

The prairies are indeed flat, which makes for easy driving. I've never found them boring, especially in the autumn when tens of thousands of waterfowl are migrating south. Keep in mind that Canada is immense. Allow enough time to see it without being rushed. If you do rent a vehicle try to find one with a flat rate, not one that has a mileage charge.

rags

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: G-Force
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 10:55 AM

The train journey doesn't have to be at night - you can go from Vancouver via Banff to Calgary, or via Jasper to Edmonton, on the Rocky Mountaineer with an overnight hotel stop, so all the travel is by day.

Via Jasper you get to see Mount Nelson, via Banff you do the spiral tunnels. Both routes are absolutely spectacular.

If you can afford it, upgrade to Gold Leaf which means you get superb meals and drinks, commentary, and sit in luxury under a glass domed roof.

Been there, done that!

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 12:17 PM

G-F. Me too, just back from such a trip, now sorting 100s of phots,more elk & black bear than you can shake a lens at & snoeshoe hare, hoary marmot & those ground squirels & pika fellas.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: scouse
Date: 07 Aug 11 - 06:01 PM

how much would a camper cost for such a drive????

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 02:03 PM

I never took a train 'cross Canada. But, drove round trip three times.

Most of Canada is interesting (IMO), and some parts more so. I especially like meeting people, so I find a car ride really nice, though tiring at times. To me, the people factor would be missed in a train ride. But, it's a long drive (four time zones, plus), and if it is rushed, it is not for everyone.

Ontario is really big. I found the northern route, as "meself" said (trees and rocks, rocks and trees, trees and rocks, rocks and trees). However, I found driving up from Toronto, to Barrie, around Lake Superior, to Sudbury, Thunder Bay and Lake of the Woods to Winnipeg more interesting (though there is some of the too much "lake, rock, tree" thing also).

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 02:18 PM

how much would a camper cost for such a drive.

Considering the cost of gas and the fact that they charge for mileage you put on it, thousands, and you would not be able to rent it for a one way trip. You would have to drive it back, and keep it, paying for each day, for the time you spent visiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 03:05 PM

Some car companies have "drop-off" capability, cars only.

A camper also requires prior planning- where to stop, camper facilities available, some camp grounds full up, some pecular parking restrictions, etc. Better to drive a car and stay at the cheaper motels.
Once I rented an SUV (Ford Explorer) and slept in the back. Field work with one-day stops at scattered sites, in 'bush' country, hour-long drives to motels.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:05 PM

An idea:
How about buying a modestly priced vehicle (say, via kijiji) in one end of the country and selling it in the other end? Cars are more expensive in BC than on the east coast, but with little rust. If one took that route, a BC car is a more desirable item in the east, than a eastern car in BC.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Beer
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:06 PM

Ed,
that sounds like a great idea and investment at the same time.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:21 PM

It might be the cheapest way. On a $5,000 car you would probably only lose a thousand or so on the resale. But it seems like a lot of trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:33 PM

Ed... you are an IDEA MAN!

JtS... not if yer a Catter and can enlist the help of other catters.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:35 PM

Hmmmm... what about insurance?

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 04:39 PM

Buy the car in the son's name, add it to his policy?

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 06:06 PM

So about a year ago, I started planning a trip from Montreal to Seattle by plane and back by truck. I kept asking my partner "when can we go? If we leave it too late, there might be snow in the Rockies." "I don't mind snow in the mountains." We went in November and caught the first snow of the year coming down the east slope. Whit knuckle driving! But October should be fine and I would sure have hated to have missed that drive through the Rockies. I was just spectacular.

On the other hand, the prairies. I have been across them many times in each direction and even the first time was too much. By train you can fall asleep safely. From Winnipeg east, you will get some prairie and then the glories of the area north of Superior. From the Terry Fox park, you can see forever across the Lake.

That car idea, however, is worth a look. Then it might be worth the trip across the prairies.

It sounds like you are quitting in Toronto? Would be a shame to come all this way and not see the whole of Canada! By train, plane or automobile.

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 06:31 PM

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=124752&messages=10

Subject: RE: BS: Crossing Canada: car or train?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 11 - 06:36 PM

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=121384&messages=84