BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.

Subject: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 04:53 PM

The real Ron Paul

Ron Paul is an extreme reactionary and a friend of the John Birch Society, the Christian
Reconstruction movement and is opposed to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, LGBT community and isn't anti-war for reasons of peace but as an isolationist.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 06:07 PM

If you are interested in monetary, military, and foreign policy statments by Ron Paul, go to his website, http://paul.house.gov and click on Legislative Information, which will lead to "Speeches and Statements."
He preaches a return to budgets of 2004, and is against any foreign intervention on the part of the U.S.
He is popular with the military and runs Perry a close second in popularity with the business establishment.

I have a hard time finding differences between Perry and Paul.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 06:11 PM

Oh great.

I'm a faithful follower of Brother John Burch
And I belong to the Antioch Baptist Church
And I ain't even have a garage! You can call home and ask my wife!

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:00 PM

Yeah, Ron Paul has been on record of saying he thought the Civil Rights Act was wrong... Make ya' wonder how he feels about the Emancipation Proclamation???

All these Tea folks are extreme fascists...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:34 PM

Hey, if he's anti-war I don't care what his reasons are.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: gnu
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 07:44 PM

"...on record of saying he thought the Civil Rights Act was wrong..."

Sounds anti-people to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 09:02 PM

Just what did Paul say about the Civil Rights Act?

Ron Paul, speech in Congress on the 40th Anniv. of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

"The Trouble with the '64 Civil Rights Act" by Ron Paul.
"....the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did not improve race relations or enhance freedom. Instead, the forced integration dictated by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 increased racial tensions while diminishing individual liberty."
"The Civil Rights Act of 1964 gave the federal government unprecedented power over the hiring, employee relations, and customer service practices of every business in the country. The result was a massive violation of the rights of private property and contract, which are the bedrocks of free society. The federal government has no legitimate authority to infringe on the rights of private property owners to use their property as they please and to form (or not form) contracts with terms mutually agreeable to all parties. The rights of all private property owners, even those whose actions decent people find abhorrent, must be respected if we are to maintain a free society.
"This expansion of federal power was based on an erroneous interpretation of the congressional power to regulate interstate commerce. The framers of the Constitution intended the interstate commerce clause to create a free trade zone among the states, not to give the federal government regulatory power over every business that has any conection with interstate commerce."
"....Act of 1964 not only violated the Constitutuin and reduced individual liberty, it also failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society. Federal bureaucrats and judges cannot read minds to see if actions are motivated by racism. Therefore, the only way the federal government could insure an employer was not violating the ...Act... was to ensure that the racial composition of a business workforce matched the racial composition of a bureaucrat or judge's defined body of potential employees. Thus, bureaucrats bega forcing employers to hire by racial quota......these quotas encouraged racial balkanization, and fostered racial strife.
"America has made great strides in race relations over the past forty years. However, this progress is due to changes in public attitudes and private efforts. Relations between the races have improved despite, not because of, the 1964 Civil Rights Act."

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 09:08 PM

i guess there's a difference Between Libertarians and Anarchists, but I can't quite see what it is

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 09:09 PM

Ron Paul does appear to be a consistent "isolationist" but that seems to be his strongest suit, at least with regard to adventuristic regime change as exercised in Iraq. So if he had been elected President in 2000 instead of GWB, we might have saved a trillion of so dollars.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 09:35 PM

Libertarians and their cohorts have slogans disguised as 'policy'. They tend toward immediate, simplistic 'solutions'.

"Bring ALL the troops home immediately!"
"Let the states deal with everything! Who cares if Texas has laws totally different from Arkansas or Oregon!"
"Deregulate everything! Let the entrepreneurs run wild! We just have to trust in the free-enterprise system."
"Guns? Sure! A man's got a right to defend his deregulated fiefdom!"

etc....

"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember why you wanted to drain the swamp."

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 11:17 PM

""Bring ALL the troops home immediately!"

what's wrong with that?

They got them over there, along with all their assets, pizza parlours, burger kings, war room facilities 'immediately"; then there is no reason they can pretty well get it all back over to the states "immediately"

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 11:23 PM

During the health care debate, Paul's solution to universal healthcare was to let the hospitals take care of people on a charitable basis.

He, like most libertarians, is a dangerous, naive emotional child.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 03:57 AM

Oh, here we go again! Everybody is a fascist except Obama.Even if he's just plain incompetent, even as being a puppet...But if he is a Democrat, he's a Messiah!
Some of you guys are deliriously delusional! it's not that he's just fucked up, he allows fuck-ups as well!! His administration is loaded with banking lobbyists, he's not transparent, and the one big piece of legislation he got through, he did it with closed door back room deals, which included waivers for those state's 'representatives' he got to vote for it! He's signed into law 1700 pork attachments, and he's generally a lying bastard! He's racked up over 4 trillion dollars in new debt, did NOT keep unemployment down below 8.5%, as promised, and has continued virtually EVERY one of Bush's policies, that you all seem to hate when Bush was in office! ..And bush sucked as well! He's got the lowest approval rating of ANY recent President, at this juncture, of his term....and some of you are in the smallest segment of the people who actually approve of this Bozo, and you want to taken seriously!..But the only people taking your seriously, are others, who are just as delusional as yourselves. At present only 14% of the people think this country is on the 'right track'! Welcome to the lunatic fringe!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 04:56 AM

King log or King stork?

But then, I always thought Ron Paul was like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 09:11 AM

Paul not who I think he is?

Sure he is - he's an asshole & I always thought he was.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 09:27 AM

It seems everyone is calling everyone else a fascist in the U.S. today .... Tea Party calls Obama a fascists, Dems are calling the Republicans fascists, and everyone is calling Ron Paul a fascist.

The U.S. these days is much like Fellini's movie Amarcord .... problem is, it's not a movie and it's not a fictional village, and it it is not a all funny .... it's real and it's all rather a bit frightning.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 09:49 AM

Remember that Paul wants to bring the troops home not because he is a pacifist but it's not about the lives, it's about saving money, and fostering libertarian principles.
Anarchists don't necessarily want to privatize everything even though they don't like government. Libertarians are Ayn Rand, they worship at the altar of big corporate business and consider the working-class scum. Ron Paul is right there.

I agree with GfS on the choice of Kucinich, who is one of a few who have any sense left in evaluating this system. Bernie Sanders is another.

Here we go again with the "lesser of two evils" approach to electing a president.
We always seem to arrive at this point. Whenever a third party candidate is suggested, it's "oh we can't do that or the other guy will get in."

The Two Party System is not working on behalf of the American people, today.
Republicans and Democrats have been corrupted by the Roberts Court. Paul is no
different. He is in league with some of the extreme wing-nuts and will foster the Repubs agenda. He is no maverick.

Meanwhile, Wall Street is buying these elections as they have bought the Roberts Court. The speculators are keeping the gas pumps expensive and they control the food supply.

Read Gene Sharp for a solution. (You can find him on-line).

Change will come.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 10:00 AM

i guess there's a difference Between Libertarians and Anarchists, but I can't quite see what it is

Basically it's that Anarchists would set out to attack the "property rights" of the rich, and see inequality as an evil to be challenged.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 10:17 AM

Hate to scare some of you but Paul and Kucinich are good friends and pretty much vote the same on many issues. What we call the political spectrum is not really a line but a circle with a tiny gap where the ends meet. Radicals (and Anarchists) are at the opposite end of the political spectrum from Reactionaries (and Libertarians) which often means they have come to similar or the same conclusions from entirely different directions.

Is there any point in mentioning that the good folks we refer to as our "Founding Fathers" were made up of many anarchists and libertarians? Nah.....didn't thinks so.........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 10:45 AM

The Founding Fathers believed different things but they were mostly "Deists" and didn't like fundamental theology guiding Constitutional principles. They certainly weren't Anarchists because the Constitution is government based. They weren't Libertarians because they did not believe in the privatization and diminution of government as do Grover Norquist, Ayn Rand, Paul Ryan or Ron Paul. BTW, this is hypocritical of Libertarians because many believe in government control on certain social issues such as abortion, anti-gay, and military intervention (the last Ron Paul excluded). Ron Paul is an advocate of the John Birch Society and if you don't know who they are, you should.

Tom Paine's "Age of Reason" will give you an idea of who the Founding Fathers were.

Anarchists and Radicals are not the mirror image of Reactionaries or Libertarians, that is a false equivalency. There is no legitimate Middle-of-the-Road position either.
Each entity here believes in different ideologies and they are not similar.

The only possible similarity is that they have their own adamant ideologies which because of their differences must come into conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 11:22 AM

Well, here's the point where we start trading references to make our points which neither will believe or at least find fault with the logic or the writer's credentials. I stopped that awhile back because it never accomplishes anything except to make each participant feel they have scored against the other and/or the other guy is a dumbass..................which is where these things start!

Have a nice day Frank. I like Bernie Sanders too.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 06:39 PM

Hey Spaw, my motivation was never to make anyone feel like a dumb ass. I don't like personal attacks or ad hominem and have scrupulously tried to stay clear of them.

I do think that a sharing of ideas even if they are not in agreement is positive by bringing information to the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Songwronger
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 07:00 PM

I voted for Obama because he said he would end the wars. He lied. He started more.

I like Ron Paul because he says he'll end the wars, and I believe him.

Ron Paul has a voting record that supports the constitution 100%. He's the only politician in DC that can claim that. When he votes on a bill, he first considers whether it is in line with the U.S. constitution, our governing document. If it's not, he votes against it.

His stance on civil rights legislation makes perfect constitutional sense. Our constitution guarantees our rights as individuals. When laws are passed that remove or suppress those rights, then a violation of the constitution has taken place.

I don't care for Ron Paul's economics, but at least you know how he would govern, as a constitutionalist. I hope he's the Republican nominee.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 07:13 PM

I'm not sure who I'd be voting for if I was US but maybe just maybe it would be Republican.

It would be a hard call as, as a Christian I do not believe in climbing in to bed with politicians from any side, my own interpretation/ belief in Christ tends me towards a socialist outlook...

But I see loons (my perspective) like stringsinger sheirking at ANYTHING (in various, God's brain this, willfull Xtian as insult (not as other use)) to put what does not suit his ways down.

Maybe I'd be more scared of HIM more than the idiots he fears...

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 07:14 PM

(that's not to say I might not far Ron Paul, just that there are two sides that scare me...)

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 07:20 PM

(I might not fear)...

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 07:23 PM

One of my friends who considers themselves an ardent Libertarian is extremely upset that Ron Paul is cloaking himself in the mantle of one. Primarily, his complaint is that a TRUE Libertarian would NOT be a social conservative. That would tend to run afoul of the general Libertarian belief in privacy rights and the specific belief that government should keep its nose out of any facet of its citizens' private matters.

-- Gary

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 08:32 PM

Well, one thing is for sure and that is if you like "Atlas Shrugged" or "Mad Max After the Thunderdome", you'd love Paul's America... Get you an AK-47 to take your kids to school...

Oh, silly me... There won't be schools...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:03 AM

Not public schools, anyway. After all,, them Commie fag teachers want to stay outa poverty and not be subject to capricious acts by administrators. Yup unions are bad. They regulate the relationship between workers and bosses and don't keep expenses at rock bottom.

And yes, Ron Paul is EXACTLY who I thought he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:03 AM

Atlas Shrugged is the most naive work of pure fantasy I can think of. To think the "the creative" people of the world could go on strike and not be replaced in an instant could only be taken seriously by a neurotic personality with both an oversized sense of worth and insecurity issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:39 AM

Ron Paul wrecks FEMA

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:42 AM

Paul doesn't have a voting record that supports the Constitution. He wants to roll back the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

His support for the Constitution is ideological, not accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:50 AM

this sums up how progressive Paul is.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 11:09 AM

Paul is a Retrogressive so Jack is right. He defines what a reactionary looks like.

He won't stop the wars because his motivation is based on an isolationist policy of anti-government which can't work in foreign policy.

The solution is to have a government that doesn't use military solutions to solve problems in its foreign policy.

The government has to be reclaimed by the working-class, the middle class and wrested from the control of the Oligarchs and corporatocracy. This can be done if people will get off the couch, wake up and if necessary take to the streets. The time for "compromise" is over because the wealthy corporations will never compromise according to historical events. It takes militant unions, fighting politicians for people's rights like FDR, LaFollette, Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich and Paul Wellstone who Ron Paul would never support.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: saulgoldie
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 11:13 AM

Among other things, he always does a rhetorically evasive dance when asked directly about abortion rights. Seems he feels that state control of a woman's reproductive system is not an overreach of government control.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 05:44 PM

To most of the electorate, abortion, gay rights, etc. are a sideshow and it will vote for an agenda that will create jobs and lower taxes. Many think the Civil Rights Act screwed up hiring practices.

In other words, some posting here have no idea of what would determine candidate selection or win seats in Congress or the job in the White House.

The U. S. will muddle through the debt crisis, but getting industry rolling again will take a few years.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: pdq
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 05:49 PM

A critic of Ron Paul's recently remarked the "...80% of what Ron Paul says makes perfect sense, the other 20% scares the shit out of people..."

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 05:49 PM

And those jobs certainly won't and can't be produced by a Ron Paul government...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 06:33 PM

Bobert- why not? sounds good to many of the electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 07:18 PM

"Ron Paul is not who you think he is."

He ain't who he thinks he is, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: saulgoldie
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 11:18 AM

In the debate the other day, he pretty much conceded that he thinks that those in need of medical care who cannot afford it should just die. He very slowly responded to the question, and then couched it in the context of "freedom." Yes, the "freedom" to die. This from someone who took the Hypocratic oath.

He is, indeed, not the cuddly, philosophically consistent elf we sometimes like to think he is.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 11:59 AM

Why won't cutting taxes create jobs, Q???

How has voodoo economics done so far in creating jobs??? Well, not too well... We were told in 2002 that cutting taxes would create jobs... Well, it backfired... 8,000,000 jobs lost... The Fortune 500 are drowning in ***un-invested*** cash now ($2T - $2.5T) and they aren't creating jobs... Why would we think that if we give them even more they will change that???

Insanity: repeating a behavior expecting different results...

BTW, I'd say that 20% of Paul makes sense and the other 80% scares the shit out of me... Just like Lyndon LaRouche who, BTW, I think Paul copies his positions...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 12:52 PM

I agree with Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 01:37 PM

THe Idealogue:

As I was sitting on a chair
I knew the bottom wasn't there
Nor legs, nor back, but there I sat
Ignoring little things like that

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 05:52 PM

If you read Paul's earlier newsletters you will find that he was opposed to MLK's Civil Rights marches and was critical of him. He doesn't believe restaurants should be integrated if the owners of them wish that they shouldn't be.

He wants to end the wars not because he is anti-war but because it's about the government dictating military policies which is to what he objects.

He is not an anti-war activist nor a pacifist.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 07:17 PM

I've thought he was someone else all along. Maybe Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 08:32 PM

I heard Paul say that he wants to "make the Federal government as irrelevant to your life as possible."

In other words, like many Libertarians, he's essentially a states'-rights reactionary who, if he could, would revert to the Articles of Confederation, which granted so much sovereignty to each state that a Constitutional Convention was called to replace them.

But because Paul is a maverick by the standards of either party, he's looked up to as an "intellectual."

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 08:57 PM

BTW, if anyone would like a sneak preview of a what a Ron Paul America would look like, rent "Mad Max After the Thunderdome"... That's about it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 09:10 PM

'But because Paul is a maverick by the standards of either party, he's looked up to as an "intellectual."'

An intellectual by Washington political standards is my neighbour's basset hound. Politicians no longer speak for you and me. They speak for money, for big business, for banks. It's no longer worth voting.

GASP!

I haven't cast a vote in over thirty years that changed a damned thing, and I ask not for admonitions about how I'm letting democracy down, but how you who have voted and thus upheld democracy have changed anything for the good in that time. I would really like to hear about it.

I no longer trust the bastards and that's that. My next ballot will have the words 'Get fucked' on it and my name printed and then signed beneath it. No more of the bullshit for this ol' boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 03:29 AM

Hey Brucie.....we DO agree about some things political! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 07:32 AM

Hi, Ake, Indeed we do. Trust things are well.

To do with another subject, I think we're in for a nasty winter that I expect will also include your turf old friend. Make sure you get a few extra supplies before the winds hit because I can see us getting snowed in more than the usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Sep 11 - 10:01 PM

We're looking for one around here, too. Gonna be cold and snowy.

Subject: RE: BS: Ron Paul is not who you think he is.
From: GUEST,Ebbie
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 12:50 AM

I, for one, hope for a kinder winter in Juneau than we had last year. It is not that we had such exceptionally cold temperatures or extreme snow accumulations but our 'normal' Taku winds which usually blow for two or three days kept coming back last winter for several weeks at a time. When the temp is below zero and the winds blow 40-65 miles per mile it is brutal. Especially in buildings as old as the one I live in. As the manager I felt responsible for our comfort- but there was nothing much I could do but wait for spring.