Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)

Subject: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:22 PM

Well, one of the toughest boxers, pound for pound, has gone on to the big sparring ring in the sky...

He was one of the great ones...

The Thriller in Manila was probably the best boxing match in my life time... Both Joe and Ali went straight to the hospital afterwards...

RIP, Smokin' Joe...

B~

Subject: Obit: Joe Frazier
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 03:44 AM

Joe Frazier, the relentless slugger who became the heavyweight champion of the world and earned boxing immortality with three epic battles against Muhammad Ali, has died at the age of 67.

R.I.P.

Subject: RE: Obit: Joe Frazier
From: Bugsy
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 03:56 AM

Sad news. He was great value as a boxer.

RIP "Smokin' Joe"

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Obit: Joe Frazier
From: Tunesmith
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 04:05 AM

Interestingly, Muhammad Ali is the oldest surviving ex-heavyweight champ. And he isn't 70 yet!

Subject: RE: Obit: Joe Frazier
From: Tunesmith
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 04:07 AM

Wait a minute! That's not true because Jimmy Ellis - who held a version of the title until beaten by Smokin' Joe - is the older than Ali.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Beer
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:01 AM

Those were the day's of boxing. Don't have a clue who is heavy weight champ today.
R.I.P Smokin Joe
ad.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: fat B****rd
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:54 AM

Much respect. I believe he felt short changed by the boxing business.
Helluva fighter. RIP Smokin' Joe

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:59 AM

Smokin' Joe has left and gone away.........

I doubt that anyone under 45 or so has any idea how huge heavyweight boxing was during Joe's career. Joe Frazier was an integral part of the ring and those times. Ali had returned boxing from the shadows but was the object of fierce and strong love and and hate. Ali found the perfect foil in Joe Frazier and rightly or wrongly played all the cards which brought them both to the top but left Joe with a great bitterness for the rest of his life. Obit

RIP Joe.........


Spaw

Subject: RE: Obit: Joe Frazier
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 08:20 AM

Metropolitan Ephraem, Greek Orthodox Monastery of Saint Barbara, Middletown, N.J.      I had the privilege of meeting "Joe Frazier" at a Boxing event held in Jersey City. Not only was a Champion Boxer; but, he was a humble Gentleman. It was a great honor to shake his hand. May God's holy angels escort him into Paradise. He wont be   forgotten.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 08:21 AM

Sad to hear that he has gone I will always remember the Thriller in Manilla match. He might not have been as 'pretty' as Ali but he was still such a character in his own right. RIP Joe Frazier.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 08:43 AM

Yeah - the sad thing isn't his death, but the bitterness with which he lived.

May he find freedom from it now.

Rest in Peace!

Subject: RE: Obit: Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 09:19 AM

He was a fighter and a half from another age of boxing. I hope he passed without too much suffering.

Subject: RE: Obit: Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 10:21 AM

Lox, he couldn't help taking Ali's theatrics personally. I'm not sure I can blame him. In his last years, so I've read, he did get over it and made peace with Ali.
-Glenn

Subject: RE: Obit: Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: gnu
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 11:04 AM

All of the above. RIP

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 01:52 PM

They were great alright, but in my book, Joe Louis is still the top dog.

One of the best fights I ever saw was DeMarco and Basilio, welterweights.15 rounds of nothing but flying leather.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 02:14 PM

RIP SMOKING JOE

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 05:45 PM

RIP Joe!
There was only one heavyweight champ back then. After retiring from the ring he started a singing career and if memory serves me well he wasn't too bad at all!

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 06:25 PM

I am cryin' in my whisky glass tonight, folks. Smokin' Joe was one of the greatest boxers of all time. I will never forget the time I went 5 rounds with him in an interspecies exhibition match in Chicago in 1967. Man, could that guy punch! He knocked me down 3 times, I knocked him down twice, and I can honestly say it was the closest thing I've ever experienced to dyin' on my feet.

Damn good thing it was only an exhibition match. I would not want to go twelve rounds with Smokin' Joe. No sir.

The tears are flowin' down! Another great one gone.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: kendall
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 07:39 PM

I remember two comics talking about Joe's singing. One said "Who ever told him he could sing"? The other said, "Who's going to tell him he can't"?

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 10:55 PM

LOL Kendall

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: nager
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 03:05 AM

Joe Frazier was one of my sporting heroes. A fantastic fighter and, while he may not have been the best heayweight champion of all time, let's not forget he defeated The Greatest.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 09:08 AM

...he defeated the greatest? Come on, he never fought Joe Louis! :-)

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 10:15 AM

And yet Rocky Marciano kicked Joe Louis in the ass. Yeah, Louis was old but they never got much tougher than Rocky.

And just for the record, I think Joe was maybe the second. I'll take Ali ............... With both in their prime, Joe would hane been standing in the ring wondering where Ali was at and why he kept getting hit with a jab out of nowhere.   

Ali---circling and jabbing: "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!"
Joe---getting dizzy standing in the middle of the ring:"Where'd he go?"


Spaw

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 11:54 AM

I think you're right about that, Spaw. Ali was amazing in his youth.

My favorite boxer, though, is Marciano.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: kendall
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 01:04 PM

50 fights, never defeated.Fought everyone who came along, including his own brother.

How do you rate the greatest? John L. Sullivan held the title for 10 years with his bare hands.
Louis 12 years.He never ducked anyone.
Ali had it all, speed, power and endurance. When he was asked who was the best boxer he ever fought he named Floyd Patterson.

Ernie Shavers had the most devastating punch, George Foreman was next and Marciano was third.

Ok, I used to be a fight fan.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: alanabit
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 02:21 PM

It is fun trying to work out who was the greatest, but it is pretty difficult to agree what defines the term. Larry Holmes held the title for nine and a half years without ducking a legitimate challenger. Yet he is hardly ever mentioned when the subject is being discussed.
Ali was probably the greatest entertainer, but I am not convinced that he was the greatest boxer. At the end of the day what counts the most is the ability to get the job done. For me that would tip the scales in favour of Rocky Marciano. Unfortunately I have only ever seen grainy, low quality black and white film of Dempsey, Lewis, Marciano et al. Wish I could have seen them in their prime. Few would claim Joe Frazier as the greatest, but few would deny that he did not fall a lot short of the best. He was tough, courageous, had good technique and a tremendous finish. It is hard to imagine a man of his size making that much impact in the heavyweight division nowadays.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: nager
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 03:07 PM

Who was the greatest??? This thread could go on forever!!!! Don't forget to throw the great Jack Johnson's name into the ring too. And, while we are at it how about James J Corbett or James J Jeffries?
Ok..Kendall I used to be a fight fan too. A former avid interest in early boxing history was re-awakened a few years ago when Youtube began and footage of many of these fighters in action became freely available.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: fat B****rd
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 03:27 PM

John L. didn't really defend his title much in the 10 years but, what a character as well as a formidable fighter. Personally, and obviously only based on grainy film amd books, I regard Jack Johnson to be as good as it gets.
I believe that among afficionados Sugar Ray Robinson is regarded as the best, 'pound for pound' as they say. This is not to dismiss any other champions.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 03:57 PM

Joe was a great and brave fighter, and always came accross as a gentleman. I've always felt privileged to have been around to witness him and his peers ply their trade. May he rest in peace.

Rog

PS. The oldest living ex world champion at 90 years of age must surely be middleweight Jake LaMotta.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Tunesmith
Date: 09 Nov 11 - 04:12 PM

It's amazing that Jake is still with us considering all those "wars" he was involved in.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: kendall
Date: 10 Nov 11 - 02:38 PM

Jack Johnson was among the very best.
Who did Marciano fight that was top quality in his prime? Ezzard Charles comes to mind.

It's ironic that Jack Johnson was denied passage on the Titanic because of his race. Apparently his love of white women saved his life.

Ok, how do we define the greatest?

I think Mike Tyson could have been the greatest of all, but as I said at the time, only Mike Tyson can defeat Mike Tyson.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 06:57 AM

No definition of the greatest?

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 01:40 PM

I think we would have to scratch our heads over that one for a long time Kendall! As a boxing technician, powerhouse and relentless stalker of his opponents, there is a lot to support your nomination of the young Mike Tyson. By the time he fought Buster Douglas, not all those tools were still in place. He reminded me of Frazier in many ways. They were both very compact fighters and neither of them was particularly big (for a heavyweight).
It is hard to identify a really memorable heavyweight at the moment. The Klitschkos are adequate world champions, but to my eyes their boxing skills fall well short of those we have seen in the past. At the lower weights there are still some tremendous world champions.
I wonder what criteria you would come up with for "greatness" as a heavyweight? You have probably seen a few more than I have!

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:11 PM

Apparently, there's some controversy over Joe's decease. The cops have been talking to George Foreman - giving him a good grilling, in fact.












(Gets coat...)

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: kendall
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:11 PM

Number one would be length of his rein.Joe Louis.
Skills. Ezzard Charles, Floyd Patterson.
Power, Marciano, Tyson, Foreman.
Jab, Larry Holmes
All around ability, Ali.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:24 PM

Nerve, poise, and style: Chongo Chimp

(but he never went professional)

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: gnu
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:42 PM

Pound for pound... Duran... the "no mas" was not about being sick to his stomach. It was about being sick of the referee. And I agreed. As near as I remember??? I'd have to watch it again.

Kendall... ya forgot to add Larry Holmes as the best technically well trained fighter ever... the man was flawless in execution EVEN when he lost.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: alanabit
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 03:15 PM

I agree that Holmes was an excellent technician gnu. He was a big man with a percussive jab, who was not easy to hit.
The best I have watched over a longer timespan was probably Lennox Lewis. He beat every man who ever entered a ring with him. Both his defeats were convincingly avenged. He was a tremendous finisher, but he also had the skills to outbox men like Tua and Mavrovic over the distance if necessary. I will be surprised if I live to see a better fighter. Ali's skills were probably the most spectacular, but he spoiled his record by boxing when he was way past his prime.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:16 PM

Honorable mention should be given to Aaron "Glass Jaw" Shivers, who lost 35 professional bouts in a row, most of them in the first or second round, but who never stopped trying.

Aaron was no quitter!

After his legendary unbroken series of 35 losses (all by KO), Aaron went on to an illustrious career preaching for the Mormon Church in Salt Lake City and wrote an autobiography called "I See Canvas", followed by a further volume of boxing reminiscences entitled, "Anyone Get The Number of That Truck?"

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: gnu
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 05:17 PM

Lewis reminds me of Teófilo Stevenson. And, I might tend to agree with you about Lewis.

BUT, the greatest in the world was Billy "The Kid" Owens. He held three Maritime Canada championships at once. If he hadn't have been shot in the shoulder who knows? Quick as a cat and as tough as nails. Or so anyone who knew my old man told me. >;-)

He WAS quick. Used to rap me on my bump of knowledge with his middle finger knuckle IMMEDIATELY every time I messed up. He taught me to box and, more importantly, not to box.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 03:15 AM

Teófilo Stevenson was as good as any heavyweight in his prime, perhaps even better trhan Ali. He never fought as a pro but he fought and beat the world's best as an amature. Pound for pound I would pick Sam Langford (The Boston Tarbaby) because he fought and won high above his weight division. Except for the colour of his skin he would be rated much higher. That being said Marciano was my all time favourite heavyweight.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: GUEST,bigrickpa
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 07:11 AM

when cus d'mato was alive and kept tyson's head into being a boxer, he was as good as i've ever witnessed. watching his demolition of marvis frasier was both beautiful and scary at the same time. when a year layoff between fights was the norm, tyson fought every 2-3 mos, most were on espn. like tiger woods after his father earl died, tyson was never the same after cus died.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: kendall
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 10:48 AM

I never liked Larry Holmes. He was a crybaby who said "Marciano couldn't carry my jock strap." He reminded me of Rodney Dangerfield who kept saying, "I don't get no respect." When Spinks knocked him on his ass I cheered.

He did, however hold the title for almost as long as Louis.

He also refused to fight Foreman. Can't say I blame him.

Carmen Basilio was one tough SOB. He defeated Robinson but Robinson cleaned his clock when he tried to be the middleweight champ. Robinson cleaned a lot of clocks. Arguably the best pound for pound ever.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 12:29 PM

Well, Aaron "Glass Jaw" Shivers was no crybaby. He never complained. He did say things like, "What happened?", "Is the fight over?", and "Who hit me?", but he never complained.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: gnu
Date: 12 Nov 11 - 03:42 PM

Kendall... "He also refused to fight Foreman. Can't say I blame him."

I think that was more contractural money hype kinda stuff. I believe Larry woulda taken George out. George was powerful with both hands but, like Ali said, George telegraphed his punches ahead of time. I think a fast technician like Larry whose defense was unsurpassed in my opinion would have made short work of George. Then again, we'll never know.

I think Holmes got royally screwed by Don King... snd so many others. I was talking to "Irish" Bob Harvey today. He lost a big fight in Boston years ago. The home crowd booed and threw chairs when he lost. Yvon Durelle... knocked Moore down THREE times in the first round and lost. Anyway, long ago and far away... time all such fighting sports were banned. Sorry, but that's the way I feel, even after being a fan for years in my youth.

Subject: RE: Obit: Smokin' Joe Frazier, Boxer (1944-2011)
From: kendall
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:01 AM

...knocked Moore down three times and lost. All that means is he won that round. Walcott knocked Louis down too, but the judges only have him that round.

Archie Moore was the best light heavyweight I ever saw.