BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube

Subject: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 12:59 PM

Apparently this virago has been arrested already, and this only went viral this afternoon, with over 125,000 views today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i47HoiM0Au8

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 01:10 PM

Oh dear

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 01:27 PM

You can get arrested in Britain just for being an idiot?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 01:39 PM

Well, it's more than being an idiot. Such rants could incite racial hatred. Also, her language was obscene (ie F***), and in public that's illegal too. Having watched it twice, I tend to feel the woman was either slightly drunk or under the influence of some drug or other. She had a bizarre delivery. I just worry about the poor little chap on her knee. What a terrible life he must lead!

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: gnu
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 01:47 PM

"I just worry about the poor little chap on her knee."

I imagine he was upset right then and there... scared I mean. Shocking.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 02:06 PM

My reaction is just that it's so profoundly sad; If this isn't partly about mental illness or substance abuse, it's about hatred so severe that it amounts to mental illness in itself. Her garbage just isn't worth the attention it's getting; it's like bothering to post a diarrhea attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 02:16 PM

I know that she would have been arrested in the US and Canada for that. She probably would have got a visit from childhood protection services as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 02:19 PM

If I had been there, I would have tried to calm her and ask her to consider her language in front of the child. No doubt she'd have given me a clump! But it's odd that nobody seemd to speak out, except a black lady. Why do bystanders let these things go on and sit there ignoring them? It isn't trivial, it's unacceptable. We ought really to be prepared to object strongly in public to such behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 02:39 PM

Eliza, there is a white woman engaging her and her behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 02:54 PM

"Such rants could incite racial hatred."

Such rants ARE racial hatred.

And I agree that she sounds drunk.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 02:59 PM

Definitely not drugged or stupid drunk.

More likely a set up.....15mins of fame?
Over 200,000 UKers find this interesting

Aren't we all disgusting?

Of course there are serious issues regarding immigration into the UK and scenes like these tend to trivialise them.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 03:17 PM

Trivialize? I would think that scene encapsulates them. Crazy woman telling black woman to go back where you came from. Black woman saying "who would do your work?" (meaning manual labour) Crazy woman saying "I work." Totally missing the point, while being rude to everyone and making her child suffer. That about sums up the situation in Alabama right now. And that conflict is over illegal immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 03:56 PM

That was on Croydon Tramlink - our local tram system. That hideous woman is typical of the scum to be tolerated on this wonderful transport system, and so we drive into Croydon and pay £12 for over 4 hours parking when travelling up to London.

Also note her hideous accent - another local problem. It's true to say the some of the best spoken folks around here (in English) are from Eastern Europe!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:11 PM

Goodness, I don't mind her accent, just her language and her ignorant racism. People are entitled to their local accent surely!

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:15 PM

The one lesson I learned during my years in social work is that you can't argue with mentally ill people... The woman clearly has a personality disorder, at the very least...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:18 PM

Do you think akenaton may have a point about it being a set-up? In order to achieve 'fame' on the internet? I suppose it's possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: gnu
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:25 PM

Certainly, Eliza. Anything is possible. Perhaps it is meant to evoke a response... a discussion of the racism portrayed... perhaps it is ment to generate advertizing revenue and she gets a cut. Maybe she is an actress... the lad is a prop to evoke sympathy.

Then again, without such conjecture, she's a piece of trash.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:27 PM

I still feel very upset and worried about the little boy on her knee. I do hope the authorities are taking some action to protect him.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 04:52 PM

Arrest is right

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 05:23 PM

Fantastic - we agree!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 05:50 PM

I don't know if anyone remembers but I started a thread about a similar experience I had on a local bus. I was told in no uncertain terms by some that it was not her fault. She was probably underprivalaged, dylexic, had a speech impediment or was mentaly ill. There was no way she could be a scally or racist bigot. Such things do not, apparantly, exist amongst the loud mouthed idiots that disrupt public transport every day of the week.

I guess this one must be the same.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 06:19 PM

You can worry about what every single unbalanced person in the world said or did today on some bus....or you can do something positive with your time instead.

This is nothing but a bunch of pointless gossip about a not very smart, angry, trashy, paranoid young woman shooting her mouth off on a bus. To arrest such a person is ridiculous....it's about as ridiculous as her own unpleasant behaviour was. The whole thing is just sad, and it's not worth having a discussion about on Mudcat or anywhere else, in my opinion.

Hell, it's a good thing they can't monitor everyone 24 hours a day...every single person in the country...every person on the street, in a bar or a restaurant, sitting at home in front of the telly, walking the dog. Can you imagine? They could arrest a few hundred thousand people easily in the first 24 hours. Maybe a couple of million. Then you'd have George Orwell's 1984 society, fullblown, and you could see how much you liked it.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 06:33 PM

Do we have trams in London? Suddenly I feel very out of touch.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 06:35 PM

This is nothing but a bunch of pointless gossip about...

And most other dicsussions here have a point?

Get a grip LH :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 06:37 PM

little Hawk has an excellent point.
It is not he, who has lost the plot.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 06:40 PM

The kid didn't appear to be upset by the mother's raving. I've a feeling he's heard it all before, and he'll hear it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Dead Horse
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 06:55 PM

Who was behind the camera? And why?
Nuff said, numpties.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 07:19 PM

"This is nothing but a bunch of pointless gossip about a not very smart, angry, trashy, paranoid young woman shooting her mouth off on a bus"

The makings of a good Homer and Jethro song are there for the takin'!

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 09:08 PM

Just what we need, smarmy preaching from a transvestite in a monkey suit telling us to find something better to do with our time. Very good point. Very good indeed, considering the source.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: gnu
Date: 28 Nov 11 - 09:30 PM

Jack? Transvestite in a monkey suit?

Please explain that to me. Please. I am asking you nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 02:55 AM

I think Jack was having a stab at irony.......oh well, un point for trying.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 03:19 AM

The tradgedy is that poor kid will grow up knowing no better.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Silas
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 03:51 AM

This video makes me proud. This train was packed with people from ethnic minorities and probably a good many immigrants. Just look at the dignified way they behaved to this vile woman. The one lady was more concerned about the appalling language used in front of the woman's own child and hers than the racial abuse that was pouring from her mouth. Being drunk or on drugs is no excuse, in fact if that is the case, should she be in charge of a child anyway?
I know who I would rather live next door to.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 04:57 AM

A few good points have been made here. I take the view that some sort of personality disorder or learning disability may be at work here but I have no evidence for that other than guesswork. Yes, there is a point arresting her - at that point social services should become engaged and the welfare of the child should begin to be safeguarded. The behaviour itself is unpleasant enough but could also indicate other problems in the home. Incidentally, this is why social care agencies and the RSPCA keep in touch with each other - cruelty to and neglect of animals can indicate other social and medical care concerns. And yes, the other people on the tram (white and black) do challenge her behaviour but there's always a few minutes of 'what are we supposed to do' when there's something like this kicks off. Once it becomes clear that she's not going to stop people start to get involved. As a friend of mine from Chicago once said after witnessing a similar outburst in a Post Office, 'If these people had any brains they'd be dangerous'.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:25 AM

Good points all. I was wondering about Ake's point about the set-up, and it still could be just that, but this story confirms the arrest and names the vexed spirit. I take LH's 1984 point too, but this case could prove a positive watershed in how society deals with endemic racism spewed forth by the bigotted sector of every social class.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:27 AM

Looks and sounds like a very extreme case of Tourettes to me. The jerking head, odd mouth movements (motor tics), repetition of words and phrases, the profanity and socially unacceptable remarks. Possibly exacerbated by drug or alcohol use. Probably other behavioral conditions present.

The child on her lap, does not seem too phased by the behaviour. He is not crying nor looking particularly alarmed, perhaps because to him this is normal (mores the pity).

I hope it is not staged. What I fear is certain political groups making this woman into some kind of Joan of Arc for their beliefs. Looking at youtube you can see the video has generated loads of response videos.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:41 AM

I don't think it was staged. But it seems that there was an exchange before the filming started.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:28 AM

Behaviour IN PUBLIC is very important IMO. We live in a society with its norms and accepted rules etc. I'm reminded of the Fundamentalist Muslims at Wootten Bassett, who shouted out derisively during the repatriation of dead soldiers. I don't think we are in the wrong to object to such disruptive behaviour, nor to demand reinforcement of a certain standard of decency in front of others. It isn't 'trivial', it offends and inflames, and so is dangerous. Our British culture has up until now valued restraint and good manners. We may have our opinions and thoughts, but we may not shout them out and insult people going about their lawful daily business, nor use obscene bad language on public transport or anywhere else. That is the Law here, and if one doesn't respect and uphold the Law, where are we?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:39 AM

Well said, Eliza

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 08:37 AM

I think there is a difference between political dissent and purely unacceptable behaviour. Decency (if you intend to contrast it with indecency) is overrated. Obscenity may be overdone but it doesn't bother me all that much.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: jacqui.c
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 11:42 AM

So sad. It makes me wonder what has happened to this woman that she feels that she has to make such a spectacle of herself.

I just hope that someone will be watching out for the welfare of the little boy - it is disturbing that he doesn't seem to be affected by the hostility that this woman is showing or the hostility that is coming back. It is frightening to think that he could grow up accepting this as the norm.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: gnu
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 02:51 PM

JtS... my aplogies. I did not consider the humour you intended in a portion your post re LH. My bad.

All is fair in comedy, love and war... I always say.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jim McLean
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 03:26 PM

I notice the lady in question has benn remanded in custody. A couple of youths who stole a handbag from an old lady who subsequently died were released on bail.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 03:43 PM

Are the two incidents related?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Acorn4
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 04:04 PM

Why have 3 and a half million people watched this for heaven's sake?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: gnu
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 04:37 PM

People are people? Did YOU watch it? I didn't... for any longer than it took to get the gist of it... maybe 20 seconds tops.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 04:43 PM

I remember when "All in the Family" was a conversation starter about topics like racism. Is she the new Archie Bunker?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 04:47 PM

indeed why? And why the explosion of response videos either supporting and demonising her behaviour. Why the morbid curiosity about this one sick person?

Would that the picture of a young homeless woman curled up on a concrete step with a sign saying "I have cancer and I refuse to die this way" should get as much attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:50 PM

I think perhaps that many people here are deeply worried about the tensions simmering under the surface regarding immigration, unemployment and the recession. We all need to keep calm and be careful not to incite outbursts and escalate the stresses we're all under. These islands are quite densely populated and at times anger and frustrations break out in violence and racial attacks etc. If someone loses control and lets loose a vituperative tirade of racial abuse, it could easily start others on a rampage. Many were probably horrified viewing this woman's behaviour, knowing what it could lead to. The BNP are no doubt thrilled with what she said.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:55 PM

Interesting that she was arrested. Not to defend her in ANY way - but isn't there a park somewhere in London where folks can rant about any subject if they want to? Would that same speech have been protected if she had said the same things there?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 05:59 PM

Yes Wesley, Hyde Park Corner. In the fifties, you could indeed say anything you liked (but not swear) standing on a soapbox. But now, you can't say anything racist or inciting hatred. Freedom of speech no longer really exists.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:06 PM

You can say "Cameron is a fascist idiot", but not say "Cameron is a F*****G fascist idiot?" You can say "Immigrants are taking our jobs but you can't say "Send the F*****G N*****S back where they came from." That is free speech in my book.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: gnu
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:21 PM

Free speech is "tempered" with contoversy and the public opinion thereof.

There is no such thing as free speech. You pay for what you say... one way or another. And it does not matter if you speak the truth. What matters is whether your speech is derogatory or helpful.

I would offer that the speech in the OP is beyond anything that would be considered acceptable on any level.

However, to jail this woman?... to suggest her child be taken from her?... well, LH said it. No need for me to repeat it.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:47 PM

I perhaps have a better understanding of political machinations, than the woman on the tram, but even after a lifetime of political observation,I admit to being utterly bewildered by our immigration policy.

During the last decade we lived through a phoney boom based on credit which in the main could never be repaid.
At the height of this "boom", the labour government actively encouraged "economic immigration" from Eastern Europe.....in the words of our govt ministers, "to make our economy more competitive in the global marketplace"......I will leave you to interpret that statement.

Now our young people are faced with no future, as there are no jobs and no houses for them.....jobs ans social housing have gone in most cases to the immigrants.

There is a growing sense of resentment towards these people ....as shown by the attitude of the "tramlady"....which is understandable, but totally wrong.

The resentment should be aimed at successive UK governments who have cynically used people as pawns to prop up a system which has been shown to have failed us all.

As conditions worsen, be prepared to see a backlash against these economic immigrants, who are already packing their bags for home, as the ship gets lower in the water.

The Political correctness and "liberal" facism, which we were warned about by George Orwell will solve none of the problems surrounding this issue, no matter how much "liberal" Mudcats tut tut or shake their old grey heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 12:44 AM

Of course 'free' speech must be liable to certain restrictions, relating to defamation, conspiracy, incitement, offence, &c. That is simply commonsense.

It has nevertheless struck me as inconsistent and paradoxical from the very first introduction of our various Race Relations legislations that it was those very people most opposed to censorship in any form who were most in favour of these measures.

I made this point once to John Brunner, who replied that racism was in a special category of iniquity & unacceptability; but when I put it to him that there were many people with the same freedoms and same number of votes as himself to whom the word "fuck" was as offensive as was the word "nigger" to him, he thought for a moment & made no reply.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 03:05 AM

I encountered a similar rant when I was on a bus in London with Micca - I think that was 2005.

A besotted man that Micca said was a Scotsman got on the bus, and he went around to foreign-looking people one by one, demanding to see their papers. He ranted about how they were foreigners and didn't belong there. Then he sat down next to me, and sought my agreement. I said, "I'm not a citizen of your country, either, sir - and I certainly don't agree with you!"

I see exhibitions of racism here and there in the U.S., but I don't think I've ever seen anything so overtly racist as this incident I saw. I had always thought that Americans were far more racist than Brits, so I was quite taken aback by this.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Silas
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 04:40 AM

Hi Joe, Please don't think for a moment that this is trpical of the aveage Briton. The reason that it has made such headlines is because it is so unusual.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: jacqui.c
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 08:14 AM

Thinking further on this.

This woman sat on a tram containing quite a diverse group of passengers. She was travelling with a small child, possibly her own son. She began a highly racist rant. At one point the black guy behind her gets up, obviously incensed by her behaviour, but is cautioned to sit back down. Luckily, he heeds the caution.

Just suppose that there had been someone on that tram of a really violent nature? Suppose that person ignored any warning not to get involved. Suppose that person had some sort of weapon with them? It's a bit like shouting fire in a crowded theatre. The possibility of real violence breaking out was palpable. And she had a small child sat on her lap.

Now, to be quite honest, I don't think that it would have bothered me one iota if she had been attacked but she had a small child on her lap. She put that child in imminent danger by her actions, in my opinion just as much as if she had left him alone near an open fire or had left any other dangerous item within reach.

Free speech is fine, so long as the consequences of same are accepted but this little boy was not in that position.

Sorry gnu - I do think that Social Services should be looking at removing this child, even temporarily, to see if this woman can get her head sorted out and act as a mother should, protecting her offspring from danger. At 34 she should be old enough to know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 08:16 AM

Gnu, "As the twig is bent, so is the tree inclined." That child will grow up just like her because she is educating him.

Is Bedlam still open for business? I could only understand half of what was being said. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 09:58 AM

"This woman sat on a tram containing quite a diverse group of passengers."

No, quite normal for the Croydon to New Addington run.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:00 AM

"Fuck" is something that everybody does (well, except for the very unlucky). "Nigger" is something that not everybody is. I do not agree that the use of the first term is in any realistic way similar to the latter.

Incitements to hatred are not simply expression, but are oppression. That is why they are rightly controlled.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 11:31 AM

I didn't claim the words, or their use, to be in any way related, similar, or cognate, Richard ~~ simply cited them as two words whose use many people might find offensive and unacceptable.

I suspect you got that really and are merely at your hobby of 'let's stir it up a bit'. In which case, enjoy; but do not expect anybody to be impressed.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 02:49 PM

As an aged stickler, I'm afraid I never accept very bad language in public. I spoke quietly and firmly to three teenagers sitting in our library not too long ago. Every other word was f***, they were speaking loudly and there were young children with their mothers choosing books. They were very good and stopped it immediately, so I thanked them with a smile. It only needs for us all to make clear what is permissible and what is not. But the mothers there hadn't acted, and neither had the librarians. I suppose I could have received a right mouthful, or worse, but someone has to draw a line IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 06:41 PM

Regrettably MtheGM you run up the flag of "offensive in a frankly archaic way without considering why terms may be offensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 08:08 PM

Using that kind of gutter language in Maine in public is unlawful.As it should be. I guess nobody told our uncouth oaf of a governor.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 08:09 PM

In public, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 12:31 AM

I concede your point up to a point, Richard. My main problem, I would remind you, was the paradox that it was those very people most opposed to ANY form of censorship who nevertheless were most enthusiastically prepared to welcome such censorship in matters racial. I suggest, and draw, no moral conclusion from this, but simply postulate it as an inconsistency.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 02:36 PM

Well, she has been arrested:
The backlash to the video prompted police to investigate and a woman has been arrested in connection with the video. The woman, 34-year-old Emma West, appeared in court today and has been charged with racial harassment. Frankly, NewsFeed is a bit flabbergasted. We've come to expect a type of vigilante cyber-justice over these types of displays, but having the courts intervene due to hate speech on a YouTube video still seems to be unfamiliar territory.

Read more: HERE

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Dec 11 - 03:03 PM

Censorship? No one is trying to prevent free speech, in the proper venue. She is totally allowed to express her point of view in a moderated public forum. It is harassing people, going about their normal business, on public transport that is the crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:24 AM

Surely even had there not been any racist aspect she would still be committing a crime. The racist element only exacerbates it further. Wouldn't she have been at the very least guilty of what we in Scotland call a breach of the peace? Surely it is not just young lads who should be reprimanded for shouting and swearing at people.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 12:52 PM

Youtube evidence of a stupid biker doing 130 through the Dartford tunnel - and then walking to his own front door (!) has been used to secure a dangerous driving conviction.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 01:28 PM

I am not aware that ranting at people in public is a crime. Those who disagree need to speak up instead of cowering and waiting for Big Brother to bring down his mighty hand on them. This was a woman with a child, and as such represented no real threat to anyone, unless you think the child is at risk. The child appeared neat, chubby,and well cared for. I can't speak to his mental state, and neither can you. I wouldn't have chosen to have him hear the crap she was spouting, but many of us enlightened ones heard worse as children.
When we look for the law to punish those we disapprove of, the door is truly open to those who disagree with us to have US silenced.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: jacqui.c
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 01:32 PM

Problem is, there are still people out there whose response could be violent, and with disregard for the child on her lap. Not that that is right, but it is a fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 01:39 PM

There are people out there who will attack someone for wearing furs, wearing KKK robes, seeking birthcontrol, or looking them in the eye. A woman walking down the street with Klan robes and holding a baby probably needs counseling, but I don't think it's illegal nor should it be. There is plenty of room for righteous condemnation of those who are wrong without resorting to making such activity a crime against the state, at least in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:05 PM

She was abusing the other passengers and engaging in public obscenity. At the least, disturbing the peace and disorderly conduct.

Was the child in danger? What if she had chanced upon someone as aggressive and uncontrolled as herself, but more physical. Would she used the boy as a shield? It is more than reckless to pick a fight with strangers on a bus. I think that evoking "big brother" is over the top. I think at the least she needed to be interviewed by public safety professionals to try and determine how much risk she poses to the child and to herself.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:06 PM

I am pretty much in agreement with you, LeeJ. I don't condone what she did, but I'd hate to get hauled in for charges of whatever if a traffic camera caught me flipping off some arsehole who endangers my life and that of my grandson by some irresponsible manoeuvre on their part. Heck as far as that goes, I might get hauled in for sitting on my front step and yelling at people to slow down when they go by at 40-50mph in a 20mph zone!

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:22 PM

Kat, those are both ticketable offenses. I had a couple of months of stressful travel which culminated in my fuse getting too short. I got a warning for flipping off an unmarked patrol car, which was tailgating me for twenty minutes, a while ago. I also had a guy threaten to beat me up in Reston VA for birding him, for cutting me off with no signal. I had to call 911 to get him to stop following me.

I speak from experience. There are real consequences to aggressive anger. The lady needs at least a talking to before someone gets hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:26 PM

Let's have some facts about relevant applicable law.


http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-of-free-expression/criminal-law-restrictions-on-freedom-of-expression/racial-hatre

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:36 PM

404 error.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:41 PM

Never attribute to malice that which can be reasonably explained by stupidity.

Spider Robinson

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 02:57 PM

The best counter to ignorance is information.

Me

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:35 PM

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-of-free-expression/criminal-law-restrictions-on-freedom-of-expression/racial-hatred.htm

Second time lucky

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 08:38 PM

Soddez cela pour une alouette

Go to

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/right-of-free-expression/criminal-law-restrictions-on-freedom-of-expression/racial-hatred.html

Then search for "racial hatred"

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 10:14 PM

I doubt if this woman will be charged with inciting racial hatred, and if she is, that would be way OTT. She's breached the peace ok, and in my book it would be fitting that she was "bound ovr? - ie told to behave herself in future. That's assuming she doesn't have mental health issues, just a volatile nature (some of the speculation about which is frankly prurient, especially quasi-clinical long-range diagnosis of the VirginiaTam variety).

Unfortunately I suspect she is being lined up for something a bit more severe than a binding over or conditional discharge, going by the decision - extraordinary on the face of it - to remand her in custody. If so, it won't do her or anybody any good.

Re MtheM's squabble with Richard Bridge, it is surely beyond argument that standards and values in relation to bad language have changed dramatically over the past 40-50 years. A judge in England the other day told police to grow up and stop nicking people for fucking and blinding at them, which is the sort of stuff we are all likely to hear every day.

I agree with Leej about the kid. Toddlers are unbelievably resilient little items.

Eliza: NOT Hyde Park corner. SPEAKERS' Corner. (At the other end of Park Lane: the Marble Arch end.)

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 Dec 11 - 10:46 PM

So YOU like an HIV positive participant in a London Bath House (oxymoron)

Decide to "SHARE" the virus - with the less disciplined members of Mudcat during AIDS awareness week?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

When asked to an Arbian why the Kurds were dispised - he said, look to your gypsies. The poor in are always with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 03 Dec 11 - 04:03 AM

"I'd hate to get hauled in for charges of whatever if a traffic camera caught me flipping off some arsehole who endangers my life and that of my grandson by some irresponsible manoeuvre on their part"

That surely is a bit of a bad comarison and wouldn't be at all comparable with what she did though? She was abusing completely innocent passengers simply because of who they were - not because of anything they had done to endanger her life etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 02:47 PM

So, Christmas in jail for this hapless mum. At a hearing today she was remanded in custody till January 3 - for her own safety. She's paying a high price for her 15 minutes of fame.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16051120

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:01 PM

she was remanded in custody till January 3 - for her own safety.

That seems excessive. And if her lawyer applied for bail on her behalf "her own safety" is her concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 03:25 PM

I think we have been given a glimpse of the future.

"Be afraid....etc etc"

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 06:13 PM

how come this was filmed, was it planned?
did the woman know she was being filmed, who videoed it?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:09 PM

This lady is expressing an opinion. An opinion sadly shared by a growing number of middle class in the UK these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 07:23 PM

It looked like somebody caught it on a phone camera. I'm just guessing, based on the finger that gets in the way every so often.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 08:25 PM

Yep, mobiles are everywhere these days, Bluesman. Be very careful....

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 08:36 PM

We all know people like that.

This one is only unusual in that the law wants to make her into a martyr for the Daily Mail readers.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 10:18 PM

"This lady is expressing an opinion. An opinion sadly shared by a growing number of middle class in the UK these days. "


She was also personally abusive and obscene. If she had simply expressed and opinion she'd be able to have Christmas with that little boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 02:35 AM

Appeared in court and remanded.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16051120

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 08:01 AM

the fact is she is wrong, if someone is born in a country for example England, as many black people are, some are second and third generation, they are English and England is their country, sending people to some other country is not going to cure Englands economic problems,
first point is that certain jobs require certain qualifications, just because someone is white it doesnt mean they are qualified or have the brains to be a Doctor, So suppose we toke this womans advice and sent all black doctors, teachers, lawyers judges somewhere else, it doesnt mean that this woman is eligible to do their job.
what sort of a judge would she make?
I would be very curious to know how English this woman is,
very few English people are of pure anglo saxon descent,
This woman is an uneducated, stupid person

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 08:07 AM

And she is paying for it.
She will not have Cristmas with her child.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 09:54 AM

The child will probably therefore have a better Christmas in care.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 10:27 AM

"very few English people are of pure anglo saxon descent,"

I totally agree with everything else you said but found that comment a bit strange. No-one will be of pure Anglo-Saxon descent and even when the English kingdom was first created only some of the English would have been of Anglo-Saxon descent! I don't think even the most extreme of people would define being English as being of 100% Anglo-Saxon descent.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 11:05 AM

ok clarification, the vast majority of English people have a mixture of different nationalities in their blood.
very few english people do not have some immigrant ancestors, even the b eloved royal family have german and greek relations. kaiser wilhelm and george v were cousins

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Bettynh
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 11:31 AM

Sometimes a story is like an earworm, only going away after you've heard it. This thread brings up a story in my past, so please bear with me so I can let it go:

The weather was beautiful early in May when my twins were 3 (must have been 1986). I heard that there was to be a kite festival in Boston, I had the day off, and the 3 of us took off. Since driving and parking in Boston is difficult, I stopped at the end of the Blue Line at Wonderland in Revere and we went by public transportation. Franklin Park was easy enough to find, and we settled to fly kites before noon. It was magic! We were set up on a blanket on the grass and the crowd of families gradually grew behind us on the walkway. Food stalls opened and the air was full of kites. I bought a couple cheap kites and managed to get them both into the air (the idea was that each kid could have his own kite. Not a great idea - they just let me fly them.) Then a flyover by a vintage plane, and parachutes dropped out of the plane. Franklin Park is a golf course, so the landing area was about a half-mile away, over a slight hill. Harlan said "I'm going THERE!" and took off running. I immediately got tangled in the kite strings. After the few minutes it took to wrestle the kites down, I started looking for Harlan, first carefully searching the immediate area, then wider areas. It seemed an eternity. Finally, a woman came up to me and said "Are you Harlan's mother?" Yup. He'd missed the connection on the way back and merged into the crowd behind us. Turns out he wouldn't talk to adults, but this woman's 7 year old got him to talk. Her kid and mine took a tour of the festival, but couldn't find me. We reconnected in the line for the Police Bus, which was already full of lost kids. Whew! Life lesson learned, by both Harlan and me (and, of course, Virgil, the twin that stayed and saw it all).

So what does this have to do with the bus incident? Bear with me....

Sometime around the time the other mother recognized me, I looked around. Of course she knew we belonged together. We were the only white faces in that entire crowd. I have to explain that I have a problem with color blindness when it comes to "race." I grew up in a sleeper town for Lynn, Massachusetts. There were distinctions, of course, but as a kid it came down to whether you attended church school on Friday (were Catholic) or Sunday (Protestant). The major Liberal breakthrough of my childhood involved a Girl Scout troop where the Catholic girls were allowed to join a troop that met in a Protestant church. There was one family with dark skin. They went to Sunday school, and Debby was my friend. I went to college in Worcester, Mass., a city of maybe 200 ethnic neighborhoods. It seemed that everyone was prejudiced against someone, and half the time the reason was pretty obscure. I worked in a teaching hospital where most of the interns and residents were from other countries. Then I moved to Nashua, NH, where I caught an earful from my aunt about the French Canadians ("They're all inbred, and they don't believe in educating their children. They're all welfare bums!") The whole idea of making blanket statements about people from the way they look or talk or worship just doesn't seem worth my time, although an individual's personal history is important, of course.

So I got my kid back, we had lunch, and it was time to get back to the car before naptime meltdown happened. We climbed onto a city bus, heading back to the subway, settling into big seats at the back. The bus started off. A man about half-way to the front of the bus said something. I don't know what. I was paying attention to my kids and shuffling blankets and bags of stuff. Suddenly, the whole busload of people stood up. About half surrounded the man in front of us and started murmuring, then yelling. The other half turned to us and started apologizing! "We're not all like that! Don't listen to that ignorant person! You have a right to be here, too!" The guy got up and left at the next stop. I was a bit shocked and at the same time comforted that total strangers would defend me like that. I was also a bit frightened to realize I'd put myself (and my kids) in a place where we might need defending. I must admit we never went back there, although weather and work schedules were the stated reasons.

There could have been a stronger reaction around that woman in the youtube video. I'm sorry the whole thing happened. Maybe next time it'll be different, but I bet there'll be a next time. Thanks for listening (reading. ;-))

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Silas
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 11:53 AM

"very few English people are of pure anglo saxon descent,"


Erm... Anglo OR Saxon. The very term anglo-saxon give the clue...

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:34 PM

She will get bail. She will be released before Thursday the 15th of December. Police confirmed she is being held for her own protection as several threats were made on her life by extermists living within the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070562/Muslim-girl-gang-kicked-Rhea-Page-head-yelling-kill-white-slag-FREED.html

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:50 PM

if the above story is true, I would agree that the people who attacked the girl, should have been dealt with more severely.
sentencing and judgements should be consistent.
no , bluesman i do not feel sorry for Emma West she deserved what she has got, but I agree that the people who attacked the girl in leicester were not punished correctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:56 PM

Not exactly a level playing field. Such judgements create more problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 12:56 PM

Funny, I'm sure I had the 100 on there but here it now isn't. Have hundreds become subject to modding off now?

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 03:05 PM

No Richard, Allan Conn's post was the 100 marker. Maybe not "moddy off" as much as nodding off.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 07 Dec 11 - 04:10 PM

Quite so, Dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Racist rant going viral on YouTube
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 08:16 AM

Looks like there might be more to this than met the eye (or video). There is an allegation that the woman assaulted someone, which would explain why she is being dealt with more severely than some of us might have expected.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16394046