BS: So that's why I feel like crap!

Subject: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 06:02 AM

Arrgghhh

I am so pissed off with my rheumatologist. It took being referred to the pain clinic by my GP to get vitamin D defifiency bloods done. All the pain clinic doctor did was press my forearms and shins, ask me questions about sun exposure and fatigue and he decided I should have vitamin D bloods done. Sent a letter to my GP requesting this blood test. Results then sent to my rheumatologist.

Just received letter and scrip from the rheumatologist that vitamin D is very low and been prescribed 20,000 units 3 times a week for 8 weeks.   Her letter stated that this could account for some of my symptoms.

WHAT????

What a convoluted way to find out that pain, fatigue, depression, obesity, etc. may be due to vitamin D deficiency and not rheumatoid arthritis which she has said all along is atypical. Little swelling and no redness or heat in joints.

Six effing years to find this out!!! Six years poisoning me with methotrexate which has increased my blood pressure given me palpitations and angina, caused terrible nausea, made more than half my hair fall out (and it is still coming out in clumps).

I really could kill. Six years of my life wasted feeling too sick to have fun. Most energy devoted to working and not playing.

I WANT THEM BACK! And I want my hair back.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 06:29 AM

Uh-huh. There are millions of people out there being poisoned with a large variety of expensive prescription drugs, all pushed by Big Pharma, and what most of them actually need is: natural vitamins and minerals, natural foods, pure water, exercise, reduction of stress, and sufficient exposure to sunlight (which is where you get most of your vitamin D from).

Look at it this way. Now you do know what the problem is and you can deal with it. That's something to be thankful for, because you're sure better off than you were before.

But I can understand why you're angry.

I take NO pharmaceutical drugs. None. Nada. Zilch. I don't trust those people as far as I can throw a refrigerator. A naturopath (or an M.D.) can do blood tests which will determine what vitamins and minerals you are low on. You then take vitamin and mineral supplements accordingly, get sunlight, water, fresh food, and exercise. That's what animals need to be healthy. It's what people need too. Nature provides everything needed for good health, but with a very badly damaged ecosystem around us nowadays, and a very unnatural lifestyle, it's been made more difficult to get these things. Even the commercially grown fresh produce we eat is starved of various essential minerals, due to modern factory farming methods and horribly depleted topsoil.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 06:39 AM

dunno about you but I'm beginning to suspect my little weasel local clinic DR
was jealous of how much fitter I was than him..


So he insisted I took blood pressure and cholesterol tablets which he assured me I needed at my age..

which may have by now over 3 years left me
shrivelled, depleted, and demoralised..????

3 years ago I was an exceptional muscular fit athletic man of 49..

now i'm f'cked and saggy and fat with limb cramps and sciatica

and can't even be bothered leaving the house...

never should have trusted Drs..

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 07:08 AM

VT lives in the UK, Garg. Sunshine and Britain are not synonymous.
The further north you go in the UK the less sunhine hours we have. Scotland has a higher incidence of MS than more southerly climes. This has recently been attributed to the low sunshine hours we (don't) enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 07:15 AM

VT I don't blame you for being pissed off!
Better check out what other meds don't go with vitamin D.

One of the expensive doctors at Intermed told me there is nothing they can do for leg cramps. $180.00 for that bit of wisdom.

My chiropractor suggested COQ10, and a friend said, bananas. I take both of them and for the past month, no cramps.

One of the Doctors in my past prescribed a med and he made a mistake by writing a prescription for a huge dose which could have been fatal. He said "I didn't prescribe that"!

Doctors kill thousands of us every year. The wife of a good friend of mine had diverticulitis and had part of her colon removed. She got MRSA and is in very serious condition. It has eaten away one of her vertebra and they want to install a metal rod to fuse the ones that are left together. She's 85!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 07:16 AM

This makes me so furious on your behalf, VirginiaTam. They seem so reluctant to pursue a proper diagnosis, and follow what I call a "Suck It and See" policy. In other words, to get rid of you, they prescribe something on the basis that it MIGHT work. Often these daft drugs are infinitely more harmful than whatever it is you've got. I've been told my BP is 'too high' (it's not that bad) and also my cholesterol. Who actually fixed these so-called optimum levels? Probably the drug companies. I'd be swallowing statins and BP tablets by the hundred if I'd taken any notice, at vast profit to Roche etc. Also, my young and totally indifferent doctor recently 'decided' (on what scientific basis I have no idea) that I 'might' have polymyalgia. He was busy tapping out on his computer (they never look at the patient, they look at their monitor and keyboard) a prescription for STEROIDS, which I was apparently to take for TWO YEARS! He was ever so miffed when I flatly refused without further tests. I left politely and said I'd 'wait and see'. Having lived to this age without their interference, I'm happy to take my chances thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 07:18 AM

I recommend a contingency medneg lawyer. If you can't get the time back money would be a nice thing. Regrettably I don't know a contingency medneg lawyer I trust.

Do however check your buildings and contents insurance. You may find that your insurers have slyly added a "protect your rights" option to collect more premium. If they have, you may be insured to spend up to (typically) £30,000 suing the doctors who did not bother to have the blood test done. And the insurers will have their preferred medneg lawyers.

Garg - don't be such an offensive twat. The pain VT has been in totally precludes jogging anywhere, she's been on a walker and partly in a wheelchair. And she had no idea until now that vitamin D deficiency was a possible cause.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 07:19 AM

You might well ask why then I go to the doctor at all. I ask myself the same question! I shan't be going again, unless a bit of me drops off or something!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 08:19 AM

Last year was a very grey year. I commented here before how I thought the higher proportion of cloudy days had affected my mood. Remember I wanted to move back to the US. Didn't clock the physiological link until now. Do go out when it is sunny, but because the sun causes hive like reaction (damned methotrexate again) I have to cover up.

Didn't realise I wasn't getting enough D in all the fresh fruit and raw veg that I eat. One thing I like about UK is the accessibility of fresh tasty fruit and veg year round.

My milk intake has decreased quite a lot since moving to UK. Only have a quarter cup of skim over muesli about 3 or 4 mornings a week. Think I am going to have to force poached salmon at least once a week. Fish is a mood thing for me so this won't be pleasant.

The side effects of such high dose of Vitamin D are a bit worrying.   I already have severe nausea.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 08:29 AM

Your system needs to adjust Tam.
My opinion of skimmed milk would not be allowed on the BBC. Suffice it to say, I think it's part of the Devil's work.;<)

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 08:38 AM

There's a reason why they call it "practicing" medicine... Alot of folks need a lot more practice before doctorin'...

Sorry, Tam, but like others have kinda said, you're on the mend now...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: maeve
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 08:49 AM

Some information here:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitamind/DSECTION=dosing

and here:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/424473-magnesium-deficiency-vitamin-d/

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,999
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:15 AM

VT: Take a tablespoon of cod liver oil daily. Along with low Vitamin D goes a poorer rate of calcium absorption. Therefore, I suspect you'd also need a calcium supplement. A naturopath would know the levels of each you'd require. NB Cod liver oil is now available in capsules so you don't taste it until you burp. (I grew to like the taste when I was a kid, but whether or not we liked it, our grandmother gave us a tablespoon daily whether we liked it or not. Usually that was during the winter (low sunlight months here in Canada)).

Fruits and vegetables are NOT NOT NOT a good source of Vitamin D. They are a good source of Vitamin A. Other than sunlight, the best foods for Vitamin D are fish liver oils (cod, halibut) and things like tinned salmon, mackerel and tuna. I don't know about shark liver oil or how much it contains. Also, Vitamin D production in the body by exposure to sunlight is partially dependent on skin shade.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:20 AM

The Newfoundland solution.

Seriously. If I were you VT, I'd add beef liver n onions and chicken livers and green peppers as regular meals. And yogurt and cottage cheese, etc etc.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:35 AM

Salmon yummy! Can you get oysters on the NHS?

Wikipedia says:

"Dietary sources
In some countries, staple foods are artificially fortified with vitamin D.[108] Dietary sources of vitamin D include:[1]
Fatty fish species, such as:
Catfish, 85 g (3 oz) provides 425 IU (5 IU/g)
Salmon, cooked, 100 g (3.5 oz) provides 360 IU (3.6 IU/g)
Mackerel, cooked, 100 g (3.5 oz), 345 IU (3.45 IU/g)
Sardines, canned in oil, drained, 50 g (1.75 oz), 250 IU (5 IU/g)
Tuna, canned in oil, 100 g (3.5 oz), 235 IU (2.35 IU/g)
Eel, cooked, 100 g (3.5 oz), 200 IU (2.00 IU/g)
A whole egg provides 20 IU if egg weighs 60 g (3 IU/g)
Beef liver, cooked, 100 g (3.5 oz), provides 15 IU (0.15 IU/g)
Fish liver oils, such as cod liver oil, 1 Tbs. (15 ml) provides 1360 IU (90.6 IU/ml)
UV-irradiated mushrooms and yeast are the only known vegan significant sources of vitamin D from food sources.[109][110] Exposure of portabella mushrooms to UV provides an increase of vitamin D content in an 100-g portion (grilled) from about 14 IU (0.14 IU/g non-exposed) to about 500 IU (5 IU/g exposed to UV light).[111]"

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:55 AM

VTam - 20,000 units? Are you SURE?

I too was low on vitamin D, even though I was taking a multivitamin everyday. The doctor prescribed more, 2000 units daily.

(To tell you the truth, I don't think it's making much difference.)

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 10:37 AM

"Just received letter and scrip from the rheumatologist that vitamin D is very low and been prescribed 20,000 units 3 times a week for 8 weeks.   Her letter stated that this could account for some of my symptoms.

WHAT????

What a convoluted way to find out that pain, fatigue, depression, obesity, etc. may be due to vitamin D deficiency and not rheumatoid arthritis.........."
===============
VTam, climb down, chill, take a deep breath. What you just posted there is a masterwork of jumping to a conclusion.

Stop tearing yourself up and stop hating your doctor. You are filling your whole body with stress chemicals.

For one thing, this Vitamin D stuff is new. She didn't know anything about it six years ago.

And beware of people on the Internet who use your suffering to further their social-political agendas.

For another, all she said is the deficiency could account for some of your symptoms. Not all of them, and not for sure.

There are thousands of people walking around who are short of vitamin D and who do not have the serious symptoms you listed.

Adopt a 'let's see' attitude, take the Vitamin D, and see what happens.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:11 AM

Finally, a voice of reason -- crazy little woman not so crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:43 AM

VT, you need to join our De-clutter and Exercise threads. We covered this earlier in the year. I'll go back later to look for the hour-long video, originally posted by Dr. Christiane Northrup, that talks about this. It's well worth the listen.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:58 AM

Thanks I am calming. I do know that I have been treated for RA because RA consultant ruled out Lupus (she mentioned that she is specialist in Lupus). I have been told my symptoms are atypical and bloods inconclusive. For 6 years I have been taking various dosings of methotrexate in order to suppress my immune system which it is believed is causing the RA-esque symptoms.

Consultant had the gall at last appointment (which was first time I saw her in over 3 years) that I should never have come off the metho the last 2 times I did. My records show the first time her registrar (temp consultant) took me off because my liver enzymes had increased. The last time was due to really high blood pressure and inability to mix BP and angina meds with metho. It was noted by GP that my BP returns to normal when I come off Metho. So rheumatologist is not even bothering to look at my medical notes.

She and her nurse "advised" me several times early in my care that I should see them privately. That I would get more time with them and potentially better care. That galled too.

The first consultant who saw me (specialist in Juvenile RA) gave me an injection in wrist where I had ganglion and proceded to stridently massage the area so had that it brought me to tears and prevented me playing guitar (or doing any needle craft) for over a year.

I have lost all confidence in the Mid Essex RA team.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:02 PM

definitely 20,000 units 3 times a week for 8 weeks.


From NHS

Deficiency (25(OH)D less than 25nmol/L) will require high dose colecalciferol;
• First line: 60,000units (3 x 20,000unit capsule) colecalciferol orally once a week for 12 weeks.
• Second line: two intramuscular (IM) injections of 300,000units colecalciferol given 3 months apart
(use this option if malabsorption present or compliance is problematic).
• Third line: 150,000units (50mL of 3,000units/mL liquid or equivalent) colecalciferol once a day for 2
days (use oral liquid option only if capsules or injection are not suitable).

Insufficiency (25(OH)D 25 to 50nmol/L) should be treated with oral supplementation of 1,000 to
2,000units of colecalciferol taken daily for 12 weeks.


Maintenance therapy at a dose of 800 to 1,000units of colecalciferol daily may be required once
deficiency has been corrected for those patients who were severely deficient and are still considered to
be at risk. In some cases this may be lifelong therapy.
• First line: one tablet twice a day of a calcium carbonate 1.5g & colecalciferol 400units (10mcg)
combined preparation (essential for all institutionalised patients over 65 years).
• Second line: 1,000units colecalciferol taken orally once a day (only if patients have adequate dietary
calcium intake or are at risk of hypercalcaemia).

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:15 PM

The standard UK NHS leaflet about vitamin D deficiency -

here - http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Vitamin-D-Deficiency.htm

lists publications from 2006.

A summary of history from the 1800s to date here - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19185802

I note a reference to rickets, and I was under the impression that UK white flour had at least one additive to reduce incidence of rickets and had done for decades.


It seems open to question therefore whether " this Vitamin D stuff is new. She didn't know anything about it six years ago"

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:22 PM

In southeastern Alaska with all its rain and cloudy skies we too don't get a great many sunny days. Doctors here advise us to take vitamin D routinely- my doctor told me that she even gives it to her 18-month old.


In Oregon back in the 70s I too was treated for rheumatoid arthritis because the blood tests didn't come up with a clear diagnosis, and my arthritic symptoms were much the same as those of lupus which was suspected.

That year we started testing for lupus in February and it didn't test positive until June.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 02:38 PM

Interesting comments and suggestions. Ebbie, I would like to hear more of the reasons (symptoms) you were tested for lupus. I have a maternal cousin who has lupus and and I am somewhat concerend about my "symptoms". Also, I would like to learn about the treatments... and anything else. Web searches are okay, but talking with someone you trust about their experience is far more reliable and believable.

By PM, or by a new thread (preferred, as that would be of benefit to far more people)... if you have the time and wish to do so, of course. Of course, if you can direct us to a site which you know of, and you trust will garner us the info we seek, perhaps that is a better way to go.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 03:12 PM

Interesting, gnu. I'll start a thread on it, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 06:27 PM

Ebbie.... THANK YOU!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 06:23 AM

Excellent! Because Lupus and RA are both autoimmune related conditions. The list is huge and surprising. I have posted some info about and link to AARDA (see below) on the Lupus thread.

The American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association, Inc. (AARDA), was founded in 1991. AARDA's mission is the eradication of autoimmune diseases and the alleviation of the suffering and socioeconomic impact of autoimmunity through initiating, fostering, and facilitating collaboration in research, education, advocacy and patient services in an effective, ethical, and efficient manner.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: foggers
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 09:33 AM

Hi VT - I am so sorry to read about the twists n turns in your health and the inconsistency of advice and treatment. I think crazy little woman is right to sound a note of caution about concluding that mainstream or "allopathic" medicine is useless.

I think there is a place for complementary approaches to health; nutritional knowledge and use of nature's pharmacy makes absolute sense, I think an intelligent and questionning approach towards anyone offering diagnoses and treatments is wise (whether GP, Consultant or alternative practitioner). I want to know the reliable scientific evidence for any claims made.

I do hope you soon find some improvements in your health.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:32 AM

Don't worry. I will continue the methotrexate and any other medicines as prescribed. Just annoyed that this problem wasn't considered before.

But I am beginning to believe my colleagues (all women between 45 and 62) who say that women who are past shelf life are invisible to the NHS.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:44 AM

Actually, what I meant was to watch out for people with hidden agendas. People who are looking for someone to blame or someone to feel superior to. Such people are legion.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 11:30 AM

VTam, I hope you get more answers and assistance. IMO, it is always good to learn more.

I agree with clw and fogger and would just like to say that if it were not for medications, I would be dead, as would several other people I know. I do NOT agree with the way drug companies push their agenda of more and more and something for everything, as well as the dangerousness of what they push, but I am glad we no longer live without antibacterial meds and others which help millions to stay alive and, perhaps, in a better way.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 11:16 PM

VTam, ~20 years ago (back when I lived in the US), after a series of alarming mistakes and misread test results by my GP & co, I came up with a little slogan to sort of remind myself that I can't count on any health professional 100%: "Nobody cares like I do."

(BTW, am not saying this to imply that you've been trusting yours too much -- I just hope that sharing it may bring you some comfort.)

Here's hoping that things now (finally!) start going your way and that this is the start of a much better, healthier and happier period of your life.

Meanwhile, hugs to you -- and your family.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 02:27 AM

I don't know about shark liver oil or how much it contains.

In a medicinal preparation, shark liver oil should be as good as any other, since the dosage will be adjusted within expected limits.

"Survival Manuals," both military and popular, nearly always warn that you should NEVER eat the liver of sharks or polar bears because both live in low sunlight environments, and "store" Vitamin D mainly in the liver, and the dose from eating that particular part can be rapidly lethal.

If it comes in a pill or in a bottle, reading the ingredients and dosages and buying whatever's cheapest for the dose you need is probably the best way to go.

I don't think polar bear liver oil has ever been a commercial product, although people in North polar regions have recognised the liver as a "therapeutic" for treating the symptoms of low D for more than a few hundred years. (As anyone would know if they'd read the narrative reports by 19th century explorers(?).) Nearly all shark species are within the "threatened" category and most that are "easy to catch" are on endangered listings, so if you want to be "really green" something else might be a better choice.

I've taken Vitamin D tablets/capsules occasionally since ca 1952 or so, when symptoms suggested the need. The symptoms suggesting low levels in normal people with mild deficiencies were well enough known long before that, by my childhood "country doc," although the use for symptoms emulating arthritic or rheumatoid conditions possible wasn't well developed until somewhat later(?).

While living in Seattle (90s) and Boston (50s - 60s) for a few years I used supplemental Vit D fairly often but not regularly. I don't think I felt the need for any, for any reason, during my couple of years in Yuma AZ (mid 60s).

Even though I don't get outdoors as much as I'd like, they're seldom necessary in my present Kansas locale - for me, for the symptoms I had in the past; but I have been taking a low dose regularly for some time because it is reported as facilitating the absorption and maintenance of appropriate levels for a couple of other "supplemental medicines" that I use. (This kind of use does require some "extra care" in determining proper dosage, since excessive Vit D can interfere with a couple of other nutrients, and it can accumulate if even slightly more than is needed is taken for a long enough time.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 05:16 AM

ugghhh... nausea is not fun

One dose taken Friday night
Next one tonight.

I want to go walking in Scotland next summer. Come on vitamin D!

Thanks all above for advice and care. You are a lovely bunch of folks.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: foggers
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 12:24 PM

VTi good luck with reaching your goal of being fit enough to be walking in Scotland. I quite agree with the point you make that women over 45 feel like a low priority for the NHS; that's why we need to look after ourselves!

We bought this book for Xmas "Medicinal Cookery" by Dale Pinnock; he is a nutritional expert and the book has great advice and recipes for optimum health. I don't do NY resolutions as such, but I think the book will help to guide us in making some changes in eating habits (once we have finished off the remaining festive goodies!).

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 07:33 AM

And if you are going walking in Scotland in the summer make it Early Summer, before the midges really get biting!
Who knows what effects you could develop when the combination of midge bite and anti-midge bite treatments hit your system if it is out of balance to start with.

Best wishes

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 11:21 AM

Once again I realize how fortunate I am to have a friend to consult who knows. I call her my health consultant. Without her I would still be spending most of my life on the couch - or worse. She has kept me going (since 2000) through environmental poisoning with formaldehyde, round-up and an organophosphate. She clues me into the best supplements for me. When ever I feel something is going on, for which I don't have the answer, I call and get help.

In early September, I realized the pain in right hip and knee were getting so bad I could hardly walk and felt 150 years old, and I had high BP. (Mine is usually about 114/70.) I called, told her my symptoms and she immediately suggested magnesium deficiency. HUH! Never heard of... I googled it, took the quiz and confirmed - after I started taking the mag that was on the kitchen table. I was making sure my partner took some 2X/day to calm the brain and gut but never thought to take any myself.

Within a week, most of pain was gone. In October we took a long walk in the woods and only a couple mis-steps. Now I am free of pain and discomfort and can even kneel without a screaming, or even complaining, knee. As long as I keep taking a couple hundred mg a day. I feel the difference, feel the need.

If I had gone to a GP, what would have happened? The last one I visited told me point blank, "I don't know anything about vitamins."

And people wonder why I have contempt for mainstream medicine. It is useful for broken bones and major injuries but for day to day health.... It has been of no value to me.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 02:04 PM

Do you know what I think it is, Dorothy? The doctors just don't know very much apart from the main, obvious stuff, and also, they don't have the time or energy to be bothered with us older women. If my GP were to actually admit "Well, I'm afraid I'm stumped, and I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. I'll send you to a diagnostician to see if somebody can sort you out." I'd be well pleased. But instead, he would say, "Er... try this and if it doesn't help, er... try that..." (gazing at his computer monitor and hardly glancing at me!) And the things he'd be prescribing aren't funny, they're major stuff which have BIG side effects, and all without a proper diagnosis. It's just to get rid of you. My motto is "It's MY BODY, not yours!" Unless my leg falls off, I'm staying away!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 04 Jan 12 - 07:27 PM

I'm with you, Eliza. However, rest assured, it is not just women or even those of a certain age. My sweet GP in PA, a brilliant man and very caring physician, did not know how to properly diagnose environmental issues. He listened intently when another woman and I gave a dual "dissertation" on environmental "illness" around a picnic table at social event. He had no idea.

It is the lack of belief and the lack of training, the fact that MDs are as brainwashed as the rest as to environmentally caused physiological problems, about nutrition, about vitamins and other supplements. I read a book about 4 years ago in which an MD declared most of our "illnesses" as being caused by environmental factors - all autoimmune "diseases". It is finally become accepted that cardiovascular, cancers, obesity, asthma, and more are environmental.

But recognizing it and being able to do something for those so afflicted is still beyond most so-called health practitioners. So my consultant and I keep me going - distilled water, pretty good food, lots of de-toxing and carefully chosen supplements.

If the money spent looking for "cures" were spent cleaning up the environment and insisting the corporations do the right thing, THEN everyone (almost) could be cured. And, NO, that is not an over-simplification. The research is growing into mountains.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Jan 12 - 08:54 PM

Have you looked into the mirror?


The mirror of the 2011 mudcat postings?


The mirror of Virgina Tam's threads.


Perhaps, you FEEL like...well because....the missing vitamin in YOUR Mudcat postings is D Disipline.



May the new year bring you and the laf-kat peace.



Sincerely,

Gargoyle




Better yert, may you both "get a piece, somewhere outside the yogert tent.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Jan 12 - 04:33 PM

Sending you Garg dear, a very happy New Year and hoping you receive patience, compassion and empathy from your fellow man. Perhaps you should look at the D word re your own posts aimed to hurt others who have done nothing to you.

Eliza And Dorothy - I was born and raised in the Chemical Capitol of the South, Hopewell Virginia. I thought autoimmune problems were just in my family but having reconnected with so many old school friends (facebook) I discovered so many of them and their kids and grands riddled with disease. Lots of school mates succumbed early to cancer and other diseases. Frightening. So yeah many people cannot cope with the poisons they are exposed to. It gets worse with each generation.

Anyway back to Vitamin D. The day after 3rd dose I noticed the throbbing in my bones had become a slight background pain. Only really bothers when I go to bed as there is nothing to distract me from it, until I fall asleep. So thankful for lovely hubby who reads me to sleep.

I am very hopeful this Vitamin D replacement is going to work.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 12 - 05:59 PM

Virginia tam

The title is a great punchline.


Hey I make cartoons, what am I to think.


I took vitamin D and came down with the worst hip pain in my life.
It was sheer coincidence. The acute infarction and necrotization of the hip joint was most likely due to tennis exertion.

Two years later I have escaped hip replacement, have full range of motion and only have joint weakness in the morning.

The crutches and canes last winter are all behind me.

The last therapeutic step was a Chiropractor who tore all the scar tissue apart in the hip joint.

All the Rheumatologists and Orthopedist people were worthless. They just wanted to put me on the artificial hip assembly line. The MRI pictures did help me get a handle on self awareness and healing.

Bottom line; I must have grown or opened a blood vessel to the hip joint and facillitated healing.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 05:31 AM

Donuel - I am happy you found a solution. In UK hip replacements are not usually offered for RA damaged joints. I wouldn't want them in any case.
My pain is everywhere. Fingers, hands ,wrists, fore arms, shoulders and neck. Toes, feet, heels, ankles knees. lower leg bones and hips. If the wrists, outside and heels of hands and little fingers are particularly achy then typically the same areas on my feet will be. That is the bilateral effect of RA. The long bone ache is probably do to the vitamin D deficiency.

I may have been a bit premature about feeling better with vitamin D, but it is early days. Much of what I have read indicates it can be 6 months to a year before you start noticing improvement. I've only been on replacement therapy for a couple of weeks.

One good thing. First acupuncture appointment yesterday. Last night I woke once at 4.20am for bathroom break. Not 3 or more times for the typical throbbing in shoulders, arms and hands. Straight back to bed without the usual wandering around shaking and massaging the pain away. I have not had that long a sleep in months.

:~)

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: fat B****rd
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 07:18 AM

Good to hear something positive from you VT. Take care and best from Charlie.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 12:05 PM

Vitamins, for the most part, make expensive urine.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 01:52 PM

Well, that depends. If you can't get outside to get some sun, taking D is a good idea. There are other examples.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: ranger1
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 05:12 PM

Oh, good. I'm glad to hear you're getting acupuncture. When I first met my neighbor Kathy, she was suffering from fibromyalgia. Her doctor suggested acupuncture and gave her a referral, and now she is symptom free.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 08:35 AM

I slept really well last night too. Wheee!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: maeve
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 08:38 AM

wheee and whoopie!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,A folk singing Dr
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 10:16 AM

Medicines can be over subscribed and the pharmaceutical industry does, on an international scale, find symptoms to match their products which is much cheaper than researching products to match symptoms.

That said, under the other guest title I use, which if Joe Offer will indulge me, I would rather it not be known I am a doctor,as I love the freedom to say things such ast above,...

I sometimes portray all uk folk enthusiasts, self included, as weird beards and ethnic skirt merchants. Many point out thy are not and I am being offensive. Maybe, so I don't parody myself and others like tht now.

But people on this thread seem happy not to challenge the outrageous crap such as "NHS doctors kill thousands.". "The NHS aren't interested in women over 45.".

Utter bollocks and shame on you. The fat majority of patients are elderly ladies and diet, lifestyle and sheer mortality kill you, despie the best efforts of doctors.

Richard Bridge is right. Find a competent legal firm if you feel that strongly. He may advise it objectively, but I advise it in a put up or shut up sense.

Perpetuating myths over doctors is ok but pointing ours stereotypes that haunt folk clubs isn't ?

Out of interest, vitamin deficiencies do affect your general well being but healthy diets that contain myriad vitamins ensure more metabolic absorption than a tablet product aimed at the worried well.