BS: So that's why I feel like crap!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 05:14 PM

Kat, have you been to that website lately? I just tried and apparently that site "may be for sale."

VTam. I've been following this thread but not known what to write. I have no advice to offer. I hope you find a solution to your health care and health problems.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 02:52 PM

Vtam, I haven't been in here for awhile, but have read your last two detailed postings. As you may know I have had a ton of health challenges over the years which have made it very difficult for me to get up and move because it hurts too much. That's the least of it, but does have a profound effect on everything else which needs mending.

One day I was really scared and down about what was going on with pulmonary hypertension and chronic nocturnal hypoventialation (not breathing in and out deeply enough and filling up with CO2.) That's being addressed and getting better, BUT one real change which had to happen for me was to figure out a way to lose weight.

That day I was so down, I went to Netflix to watch something just to get my mind off of things for a bit. One of the first random suggestions to come up was a docu made by an Australian called "Fat, Sick, And Nearly Dead." It felt as though the Cosmic were sending me a message, so I watched it. It was inspiring, full of important nutritional information AND,, most importantly for me, it made it easy to change my diet for the better. I lost 3.5 lbs the first week, safely, still eating regular meals. All I added was up to 32 ounces of juice extract from fresh fruits and vegetables. He had one visual which really worked for me: a large platter filled with the recommended daily intake of fruits and veggies. It was huge. Like you, I thought I was being so good eating celery, carrots, etc., but, as the docs and nutritionists in his film show, that is not nearly enough to get the micronutrients our bodies need. When he showed that platter, he laughed and said there was no way he could eat all of that in a day, nor could I, BUT by getting a juice extractor, it becomes a fairly easy and healthy task.

Since I started, I have had more energy than I've had in years and I *crave* the juice instead of the bit of chocolate or whatever I used to. My docs are amazed at how much better my colour is and I continue to lose weight which can only help everything else.

IMO, every health professional and anyone who is interested in good nutrition, skinny, fat or in-between, should watch it. It is highly entertaining and fun as well as very informative.

One woman who might have needed to lose 10 lbs at the most, said she felt 21 again. A trucker who started out at 439 lbs and on scads of meds lost 202lbs, got off the meds, and is now helping others to turn their lives around with good nutrition through juicing. They have a free website with recipes for soups, smoothies, and juices, at www.ReBootYourLife.com. I hope this is helpful and you get a chance to watch the documentary.

With all good wishes,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: foggers
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 02:37 PM

Yes I think the biggest problem people experience with health services comes down to the issue of coordination between different departments etc. I hope that someone in the team around you takes hold of the situation, looks at your history, the interactions between your health needs and the various treatment options, VT. Fingers crossed for you!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 01:57 PM

I still have hope I am going to beat this disease. But I do feel my care has been a bit uncoordinated.

I have had seriously high blood pressure events. One that landed me in hospital observation for 6 hours and got me referred to a cardiologist. Discovered angina and palpitations and tiny bit of sluggishness in lower left quadrant of heart. The high BP, angina and palpitations cleared up after coming off methotrexate, twice now. I have been tried on about 4 different BP meds which caused reactions the worst being raised liver enzymes. Starting to get the palpitations again as I have been back on metho and increased dosage for about 8 weeks.

I guess I find it a bit annoying that my consultant (who tried to get me to see her privately, implying I would get better care) didn't bother to check my notes to see why I had come off the methotrexate, before she started fussing at me for it. It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

Today I had pain clinic review with nurse who after seeing results of my vitamin D test asked me to wait to see clinic doctor. I have been informed that I will have to take daily vitamin D supplement for the rest of my life, different dosages and have regular blood tests. He will send letter to my GP and warned me that the GP probably will not pay for the supplement, so I will have to. No problem. I can do that.

He also prescribed something called Lyrica pregabalin for neuropathic pain. One in the morning and one in the evening. Oh goody. Yet another pill.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: foggers
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 01:29 PM

I would be the first to defend the NHS in UK; our own recent experience of serious illness led to a procession of health professionals in our lives, ALL of whom were great. I say that in the context of understanding the pressures and limitations faced by health practitioners from paramedics, hospital based staff, our GP and practice nurse.

We have free health care for major conditions and free advice on other health issues such as smoking and weight loss. Compared to other parts of the world we are most fortunate and we should be fighting to keep our NHS a public service, rather than criticising NHS staff who maybe don't know everything we believe they should, or who may occasionally present as inattentive\arrogant. (In the same way that some folkies live up to the stereotype by having long hair and ethnic fair trade clothes!). The NHS is not perfect (nothing is) but I'd far rather have it than not.

And I don't interpret VT's experience as a critique of the whole NHS; it is one person's narrative of their health issues; and I am glad to hear of some early signs of improvement!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Musket
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 12:32 PM

What have I learned from this thread? Possibly that some people reckon all doctors are bossy and arrogant. I'm married to one and she is bossy, but instead of being arrogant, I would say she is infuriatingly correct, even though at times I might not wish to hear it.

Doctors do have the problem of not always being heard or their evidence based advice being compared to an airhead in a beauty magazine who says something different. I don't blame the vast majority for not wanting to debate nonsense. Either something works for you or it doesn't. Ben Goldacre in his many newspaper articles and his excellent book Bad Science points out that placebo effect is about 20% Which means even if something that is moonshine such as homeopathy, one in five people will get a positive effect from it.

If Patsy feels not going to see a doctor is the answer, I would agree. After all, a doctor is interested in your healthcare needs, not your unfulfilled aspirations.

I drink more than I should, eat a little more than I should, and not always of the healthiest items, and exercise? Well, I could do better. I feel OK. I really do. But, and this is the important bit; the advice a doctor would give me to change my lifestyle is still good objective advice, even if I might not want to heed it.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 06:17 AM

I thought that the put up and shut up attitude was a thing of the not so distant past. Sometimes I think that some doctors (not all) are on a planet of their own and that we really haven't got anything better to do in our day than trying to find a proper answer or diagnosis to our problems. They seem to forget that people have individual lives and have all sorts of different situations like mobility, family worries or finance to fit around their illnesses. My reaction sometimes is to just not bother to go to a doctor at all but then if something cropped up my family would not be very pleased with me for not going.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 Jan 12 - 05:23 AM

I am not on statins. My cholesterol is not terrible given my age, weight and general unfitness. I was told the best treatment for it is exercise. I am not on blood pressure meds. Last 2 checks of blood pressure were good. Best treatment to keep it that way, again exercise. Told to come back in 6 months for another check, unless I started feeling bad again, which I am because the methotrexate dosage has been increased and it is building up toxicity again.

My diet is pretty damned healthy since the variety of fruit and veg is so good and available in UK. It was not so good in the US as supermarket fare was pretty crap and expensive compared to the income I had to spend on food.

Breakfast is either muesli or cornflakes with skim milk and fruit. About once a month I have whole meal toast with teaspoon of organic peanut butter. Cooked breakfast (eggs, mushrooms, toast) never happens more than twice a month, weekend treat. Bacon or sausage is a once or twice a year treat.

Weekday lunch is 2 raw carrots, 2 celery stalks, 4 inches of cucumber, 5 cherry tomatoes and a handful of grapes every day supplemented with other fruit in season and either light soft cheese on Oat Nairns (no more than 4) or a bit of roast chicken or turkey. Unless I have made homemade chicken veg soup. Then it is only the fruit that supplements. I usually miss lunch on the weekends because I have breakfast late.

I live with a vegetarian so weekday dinners are typically vegetarian. I am not big on cheese but do like Quorn products. Use extra virgin olive oil or cholesterol busting spreads. Rarely have butter in or on anything.

My favourite drink is ice water (lots of ice). One coffee per day. 0 to 2 cups of pepperment tea per day. Red wine or real ale about once a month. Occasional juice. No soda. No squash.

My partner likes chocolate so the rule is he can only have Cadbury Turkish Delight or Cream Eggs in the house, both of which I find vile. He buys crisps for lunch. I am not big on salty snacks so this is no temptation for me.

My diet is pretty good quality and quantity wise.

I do have sensitivity to sun thanks to all the meds I have been on. I get blistery hives, so when I am out, I must cover up.

I am sedentary because well to put it bluntly it hurts to move. My feet and ankles feel fused, locked in position. My hips seize up within in 5 minutes of walking. I have a walker which when I use causes pain in the shoulders and wrists. Also being in constant pain, I usually don't feel like doing much of anything. The simplest tasks exhaust me. As a doctor I am sure you understand fatigue and its relationship to rheumatoid arthritis?

I was told by my RA nurse that joint replacements are an unlikely option because the disease would just attack the tissue around replaced joints. Though I have heard of others getting joint replacements with RA.

My RA consultant doesn't see me for a couple of years and then tells me off for taking a break from the methotrexate when it clearly shows in my records why I was taken off. Increased liver enzymes (her own colleage told me to stop taking it) and high blood pressure, angina and palpitations which (3 times now) gets unmanageable as the metho builds up in my system. Symptoms which magically fade when I am not taking it.

Am I missing something here or are the professionals, monitoring my care, missing something? Sorry to be such pill, but then I am full up with them.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: andrew e
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 08:40 PM

I like this website.

Natural Health News

http://www.naturalnews.com/

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Noreen
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 08:17 PM

In UK hip replacements are not usually offered for RA damaged joints
Really? I know someone with RA who has had both hips replaced- and several other bits.

From Arthritis - NHS choices:

Hip replacement is the most effective treatment for a hip joint that causes pain and cannot function properly. The most common reasons for surgery are:

Osteoarthritis. This is the most common form of arthritis. It occurs when connecting tissue between the joint is damaged, causing bones to rub together painfully.

Rheumatoid arthritis. This is caused by the immune system attacking the lining of the joint, resulting in pain and stiffness.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 01:42 PM

WELL! Folk singing Doctor, you sound JUST like my bossy arrogant sister, (a doctor in Scotland). I've never yet been privileged to experience "the best efforts of doctors", the ones I've come across in my long life have all been like you, ie dismissive, critical and unsympathetic. How many ordinary folk have a "healthy diets that contain myriad vitamins"? Put up or shut up indeed! That is exactly the kind of utterance I'd expect from a doctor. Utter bollocks and shame on YOU!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: bobad
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 11:14 AM

I take statins and my Doc told me that the evidence on CoQ10 is not definitive and since I don't have identifiable side effects I don't take it, chiefly because of cost - it's not inexpensive.

This from the Mayo Clinic site:

Can coenzyme Q10 reduce the risk of serious side effects from statin medications?
Answer
from Thomas Behrenbeck, M.D., Ph.D.

At this time, coenzyme Q10 is not universally recommended for preventing statin side effects.

Coenzyme Q10 is a substance made naturally by your body. As a supplement, it's usually sold as a capsule and is marketed under brand names such as Co-Q10, Coenzyme Q10, LiQsorb, Liquid Co-Q10 and Q-Gel.

Some researchers think that taking a coenzyme Q10 supplement may reduce the risk of serious muscle damage (rhabdomyolysis). And some small reports suggest that troubling side effects — muscle and joint aches — from statins might be reduced if you take coenzyme Q10 along with a statin. However, no large studies have confirmed this theory, so current guidelines don't recommend routine use of coenzyme Q10 in people taking statins.

Coenzyme Q10 doesn't cause side effects for most people. However, as with other herbal and dietary supplements, it's not regulated by the Food and Drug Administration.

If you have muscle aches or other troubling symptoms after starting statin medications, talk to your doctor as soon as possible. Statins are effective cholesterol-lowering medications for many people, and it's important to do everything possible to continue taking them as directed.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 10:38 AM

If you take a statin medication for cholesterol, you should be taking CoenzymeQ10 (CoQ10)

I think if a doctor has read available studies on it, he'd agree.

I felt miserable, had I had weakness and muscle cramps, and starting CoQ10 was like a miracle.

I also take vitamin D. Even if I were to spend the needed amount of time in the sun, I'd need sunscreen, and I don't eat/drink enough vitamin D rich foods.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,Folk singing Dr
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 10:18 AM

Sorry, iPad keyboard autocorrect crap and it posted without preview edit due to fat thumbs.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,A folk singing Dr
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 10:16 AM

Medicines can be over subscribed and the pharmaceutical industry does, on an international scale, find symptoms to match their products which is much cheaper than researching products to match symptoms.

That said, under the other guest title I use, which if Joe Offer will indulge me, I would rather it not be known I am a doctor,as I love the freedom to say things such ast above,...

I sometimes portray all uk folk enthusiasts, self included, as weird beards and ethnic skirt merchants. Many point out thy are not and I am being offensive. Maybe, so I don't parody myself and others like tht now.

But people on this thread seem happy not to challenge the outrageous crap such as "NHS doctors kill thousands.". "The NHS aren't interested in women over 45.".

Utter bollocks and shame on you. The fat majority of patients are elderly ladies and diet, lifestyle and sheer mortality kill you, despie the best efforts of doctors.

Richard Bridge is right. Find a competent legal firm if you feel that strongly. He may advise it objectively, but I advise it in a put up or shut up sense.

Perpetuating myths over doctors is ok but pointing ours stereotypes that haunt folk clubs isn't ?

Out of interest, vitamin deficiencies do affect your general well being but healthy diets that contain myriad vitamins ensure more metabolic absorption than a tablet product aimed at the worried well.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: maeve
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 08:38 AM

wheee and whoopie!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 15 Jan 12 - 08:35 AM

I slept really well last night too. Wheee!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: ranger1
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 05:12 PM

Oh, good. I'm glad to hear you're getting acupuncture. When I first met my neighbor Kathy, she was suffering from fibromyalgia. Her doctor suggested acupuncture and gave her a referral, and now she is symptom free.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 01:52 PM

Well, that depends. If you can't get outside to get some sun, taking D is a good idea. There are other examples.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 12:05 PM

Vitamins, for the most part, make expensive urine.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: fat B****rd
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 07:18 AM

Good to hear something positive from you VT. Take care and best from Charlie.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 05:31 AM

Donuel - I am happy you found a solution. In UK hip replacements are not usually offered for RA damaged joints. I wouldn't want them in any case.
My pain is everywhere. Fingers, hands ,wrists, fore arms, shoulders and neck. Toes, feet, heels, ankles knees. lower leg bones and hips. If the wrists, outside and heels of hands and little fingers are particularly achy then typically the same areas on my feet will be. That is the bilateral effect of RA. The long bone ache is probably do to the vitamin D deficiency.

I may have been a bit premature about feeling better with vitamin D, but it is early days. Much of what I have read indicates it can be 6 months to a year before you start noticing improvement. I've only been on replacement therapy for a couple of weeks.

One good thing. First acupuncture appointment yesterday. Last night I woke once at 4.20am for bathroom break. Not 3 or more times for the typical throbbing in shoulders, arms and hands. Straight back to bed without the usual wandering around shaking and massaging the pain away. I have not had that long a sleep in months.

:~)

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 12 - 05:59 PM

Virginia tam

The title is a great punchline.


Hey I make cartoons, what am I to think.


I took vitamin D and came down with the worst hip pain in my life.
It was sheer coincidence. The acute infarction and necrotization of the hip joint was most likely due to tennis exertion.

Two years later I have escaped hip replacement, have full range of motion and only have joint weakness in the morning.

The crutches and canes last winter are all behind me.

The last therapeutic step was a Chiropractor who tore all the scar tissue apart in the hip joint.

All the Rheumatologists and Orthopedist people were worthless. They just wanted to put me on the artificial hip assembly line. The MRI pictures did help me get a handle on self awareness and healing.

Bottom line; I must have grown or opened a blood vessel to the hip joint and facillitated healing.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 06 Jan 12 - 04:33 PM

Sending you Garg dear, a very happy New Year and hoping you receive patience, compassion and empathy from your fellow man. Perhaps you should look at the D word re your own posts aimed to hurt others who have done nothing to you.

Eliza And Dorothy - I was born and raised in the Chemical Capitol of the South, Hopewell Virginia. I thought autoimmune problems were just in my family but having reconnected with so many old school friends (facebook) I discovered so many of them and their kids and grands riddled with disease. Lots of school mates succumbed early to cancer and other diseases. Frightening. So yeah many people cannot cope with the poisons they are exposed to. It gets worse with each generation.

Anyway back to Vitamin D. The day after 3rd dose I noticed the throbbing in my bones had become a slight background pain. Only really bothers when I go to bed as there is nothing to distract me from it, until I fall asleep. So thankful for lovely hubby who reads me to sleep.

I am very hopeful this Vitamin D replacement is going to work.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Jan 12 - 08:54 PM

Have you looked into the mirror?


The mirror of the 2011 mudcat postings?


The mirror of Virgina Tam's threads.


Perhaps, you FEEL like...well because....the missing vitamin in YOUR Mudcat postings is D Disipline.



May the new year bring you and the laf-kat peace.



Sincerely,

Gargoyle




Better yert, may you both "get a piece, somewhere outside the yogert tent.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 04 Jan 12 - 07:27 PM

I'm with you, Eliza. However, rest assured, it is not just women or even those of a certain age. My sweet GP in PA, a brilliant man and very caring physician, did not know how to properly diagnose environmental issues. He listened intently when another woman and I gave a dual "dissertation" on environmental "illness" around a picnic table at social event. He had no idea.

It is the lack of belief and the lack of training, the fact that MDs are as brainwashed as the rest as to environmentally caused physiological problems, about nutrition, about vitamins and other supplements. I read a book about 4 years ago in which an MD declared most of our "illnesses" as being caused by environmental factors - all autoimmune "diseases". It is finally become accepted that cardiovascular, cancers, obesity, asthma, and more are environmental.

But recognizing it and being able to do something for those so afflicted is still beyond most so-called health practitioners. So my consultant and I keep me going - distilled water, pretty good food, lots of de-toxing and carefully chosen supplements.

If the money spent looking for "cures" were spent cleaning up the environment and insisting the corporations do the right thing, THEN everyone (almost) could be cured. And, NO, that is not an over-simplification. The research is growing into mountains.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 02:04 PM

Do you know what I think it is, Dorothy? The doctors just don't know very much apart from the main, obvious stuff, and also, they don't have the time or energy to be bothered with us older women. If my GP were to actually admit "Well, I'm afraid I'm stumped, and I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. I'll send you to a diagnostician to see if somebody can sort you out." I'd be well pleased. But instead, he would say, "Er... try this and if it doesn't help, er... try that..." (gazing at his computer monitor and hardly glancing at me!) And the things he'd be prescribing aren't funny, they're major stuff which have BIG side effects, and all without a proper diagnosis. It's just to get rid of you. My motto is "It's MY BODY, not yours!" Unless my leg falls off, I'm staying away!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 11:21 AM

Once again I realize how fortunate I am to have a friend to consult who knows. I call her my health consultant. Without her I would still be spending most of my life on the couch - or worse. She has kept me going (since 2000) through environmental poisoning with formaldehyde, round-up and an organophosphate. She clues me into the best supplements for me. When ever I feel something is going on, for which I don't have the answer, I call and get help.

In early September, I realized the pain in right hip and knee were getting so bad I could hardly walk and felt 150 years old, and I had high BP. (Mine is usually about 114/70.) I called, told her my symptoms and she immediately suggested magnesium deficiency. HUH! Never heard of... I googled it, took the quiz and confirmed - after I started taking the mag that was on the kitchen table. I was making sure my partner took some 2X/day to calm the brain and gut but never thought to take any myself.

Within a week, most of pain was gone. In October we took a long walk in the woods and only a couple mis-steps. Now I am free of pain and discomfort and can even kneel without a screaming, or even complaining, knee. As long as I keep taking a couple hundred mg a day. I feel the difference, feel the need.

If I had gone to a GP, what would have happened? The last one I visited told me point blank, "I don't know anything about vitamins."

And people wonder why I have contempt for mainstream medicine. It is useful for broken bones and major injuries but for day to day health.... It has been of no value to me.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 03 Jan 12 - 07:33 AM

And if you are going walking in Scotland in the summer make it Early Summer, before the midges really get biting!
Who knows what effects you could develop when the combination of midge bite and anti-midge bite treatments hit your system if it is out of balance to start with.

Best wishes

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: foggers
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 12:24 PM

VTi good luck with reaching your goal of being fit enough to be walking in Scotland. I quite agree with the point you make that women over 45 feel like a low priority for the NHS; that's why we need to look after ourselves!

We bought this book for Xmas "Medicinal Cookery" by Dale Pinnock; he is a nutritional expert and the book has great advice and recipes for optimum health. I don't do NY resolutions as such, but I think the book will help to guide us in making some changes in eating habits (once we have finished off the remaining festive goodies!).

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 05:16 AM

ugghhh... nausea is not fun

One dose taken Friday night
Next one tonight.

I want to go walking in Scotland next summer. Come on vitamin D!

Thanks all above for advice and care. You are a lovely bunch of folks.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 02:27 AM

I don't know about shark liver oil or how much it contains.

In a medicinal preparation, shark liver oil should be as good as any other, since the dosage will be adjusted within expected limits.

"Survival Manuals," both military and popular, nearly always warn that you should NEVER eat the liver of sharks or polar bears because both live in low sunlight environments, and "store" Vitamin D mainly in the liver, and the dose from eating that particular part can be rapidly lethal.

If it comes in a pill or in a bottle, reading the ingredients and dosages and buying whatever's cheapest for the dose you need is probably the best way to go.

I don't think polar bear liver oil has ever been a commercial product, although people in North polar regions have recognised the liver as a "therapeutic" for treating the symptoms of low D for more than a few hundred years. (As anyone would know if they'd read the narrative reports by 19th century explorers(?).) Nearly all shark species are within the "threatened" category and most that are "easy to catch" are on endangered listings, so if you want to be "really green" something else might be a better choice.

I've taken Vitamin D tablets/capsules occasionally since ca 1952 or so, when symptoms suggested the need. The symptoms suggesting low levels in normal people with mild deficiencies were well enough known long before that, by my childhood "country doc," although the use for symptoms emulating arthritic or rheumatoid conditions possible wasn't well developed until somewhat later(?).

While living in Seattle (90s) and Boston (50s - 60s) for a few years I used supplemental Vit D fairly often but not regularly. I don't think I felt the need for any, for any reason, during my couple of years in Yuma AZ (mid 60s).

Even though I don't get outdoors as much as I'd like, they're seldom necessary in my present Kansas locale - for me, for the symptoms I had in the past; but I have been taking a low dose regularly for some time because it is reported as facilitating the absorption and maintenance of appropriate levels for a couple of other "supplemental medicines" that I use. (This kind of use does require some "extra care" in determining proper dosage, since excessive Vit D can interfere with a couple of other nutrients, and it can accumulate if even slightly more than is needed is taken for a long enough time.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 11:16 PM

VTam, ~20 years ago (back when I lived in the US), after a series of alarming mistakes and misread test results by my GP & co, I came up with a little slogan to sort of remind myself that I can't count on any health professional 100%: "Nobody cares like I do."

(BTW, am not saying this to imply that you've been trusting yours too much -- I just hope that sharing it may bring you some comfort.)

Here's hoping that things now (finally!) start going your way and that this is the start of a much better, healthier and happier period of your life.

Meanwhile, hugs to you -- and your family.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 11:30 AM

VTam, I hope you get more answers and assistance. IMO, it is always good to learn more.

I agree with clw and fogger and would just like to say that if it were not for medications, I would be dead, as would several other people I know. I do NOT agree with the way drug companies push their agenda of more and more and something for everything, as well as the dangerousness of what they push, but I am glad we no longer live without antibacterial meds and others which help millions to stay alive and, perhaps, in a better way.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:44 AM

Actually, what I meant was to watch out for people with hidden agendas. People who are looking for someone to blame or someone to feel superior to. Such people are legion.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 10:32 AM

Don't worry. I will continue the methotrexate and any other medicines as prescribed. Just annoyed that this problem wasn't considered before.

But I am beginning to believe my colleagues (all women between 45 and 62) who say that women who are past shelf life are invisible to the NHS.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: foggers
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 09:33 AM

Hi VT - I am so sorry to read about the twists n turns in your health and the inconsistency of advice and treatment. I think crazy little woman is right to sound a note of caution about concluding that mainstream or "allopathic" medicine is useless.

I think there is a place for complementary approaches to health; nutritional knowledge and use of nature's pharmacy makes absolute sense, I think an intelligent and questionning approach towards anyone offering diagnoses and treatments is wise (whether GP, Consultant or alternative practitioner). I want to know the reliable scientific evidence for any claims made.

I do hope you soon find some improvements in your health.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Dec 11 - 06:23 AM

Excellent! Because Lupus and RA are both autoimmune related conditions. The list is huge and surprising. I have posted some info about and link to AARDA (see below) on the Lupus thread.

The American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association, Inc. (AARDA), was founded in 1991. AARDA's mission is the eradication of autoimmune diseases and the alleviation of the suffering and socioeconomic impact of autoimmunity through initiating, fostering, and facilitating collaboration in research, education, advocacy and patient services in an effective, ethical, and efficient manner.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 06:27 PM

Ebbie.... THANK YOU!

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 03:12 PM

Interesting, gnu. I'll start a thread on it, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 02:38 PM

Interesting comments and suggestions. Ebbie, I would like to hear more of the reasons (symptoms) you were tested for lupus. I have a maternal cousin who has lupus and and I am somewhat concerend about my "symptoms". Also, I would like to learn about the treatments... and anything else. Web searches are okay, but talking with someone you trust about their experience is far more reliable and believable.

By PM, or by a new thread (preferred, as that would be of benefit to far more people)... if you have the time and wish to do so, of course. Of course, if you can direct us to a site which you know of, and you trust will garner us the info we seek, perhaps that is a better way to go.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:22 PM

In southeastern Alaska with all its rain and cloudy skies we too don't get a great many sunny days. Doctors here advise us to take vitamin D routinely- my doctor told me that she even gives it to her 18-month old.


In Oregon back in the 70s I too was treated for rheumatoid arthritis because the blood tests didn't come up with a clear diagnosis, and my arthritic symptoms were much the same as those of lupus which was suspected.

That year we started testing for lupus in February and it didn't test positive until June.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:15 PM

The standard UK NHS leaflet about vitamin D deficiency -

here - http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Vitamin-D-Deficiency.htm

lists publications from 2006.

A summary of history from the 1800s to date here - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19185802

I note a reference to rickets, and I was under the impression that UK white flour had at least one additive to reduce incidence of rickets and had done for decades.


It seems open to question therefore whether " this Vitamin D stuff is new. She didn't know anything about it six years ago"

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 12:02 PM

definitely 20,000 units 3 times a week for 8 weeks.


From NHS

Deficiency (25(OH)D less than 25nmol/L) will require high dose colecalciferol;
• First line: 60,000units (3 x 20,000unit capsule) colecalciferol orally once a week for 12 weeks.
• Second line: two intramuscular (IM) injections of 300,000units colecalciferol given 3 months apart
(use this option if malabsorption present or compliance is problematic).
• Third line: 150,000units (50mL of 3,000units/mL liquid or equivalent) colecalciferol once a day for 2
days (use oral liquid option only if capsules or injection are not suitable).

Insufficiency (25(OH)D 25 to 50nmol/L) should be treated with oral supplementation of 1,000 to
2,000units of colecalciferol taken daily for 12 weeks.


Maintenance therapy at a dose of 800 to 1,000units of colecalciferol daily may be required once
deficiency has been corrected for those patients who were severely deficient and are still considered to
be at risk. In some cases this may be lifelong therapy.
• First line: one tablet twice a day of a calcium carbonate 1.5g & colecalciferol 400units (10mcg)
combined preparation (essential for all institutionalised patients over 65 years).
• Second line: 1,000units colecalciferol taken orally once a day (only if patients have adequate dietary
calcium intake or are at risk of hypercalcaemia).

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:58 AM

Thanks I am calming. I do know that I have been treated for RA because RA consultant ruled out Lupus (she mentioned that she is specialist in Lupus). I have been told my symptoms are atypical and bloods inconclusive. For 6 years I have been taking various dosings of methotrexate in order to suppress my immune system which it is believed is causing the RA-esque symptoms.

Consultant had the gall at last appointment (which was first time I saw her in over 3 years) that I should never have come off the metho the last 2 times I did. My records show the first time her registrar (temp consultant) took me off because my liver enzymes had increased. The last time was due to really high blood pressure and inability to mix BP and angina meds with metho. It was noted by GP that my BP returns to normal when I come off Metho. So rheumatologist is not even bothering to look at my medical notes.

She and her nurse "advised" me several times early in my care that I should see them privately. That I would get more time with them and potentially better care. That galled too.

The first consultant who saw me (specialist in Juvenile RA) gave me an injection in wrist where I had ganglion and proceded to stridently massage the area so had that it brought me to tears and prevented me playing guitar (or doing any needle craft) for over a year.

I have lost all confidence in the Mid Essex RA team.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:43 AM

VT, you need to join our De-clutter and Exercise threads. We covered this earlier in the year. I'll go back later to look for the hour-long video, originally posted by Dr. Christiane Northrup, that talks about this. It's well worth the listen.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 11:11 AM

Finally, a voice of reason -- crazy little woman not so crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 10:37 AM

"Just received letter and scrip from the rheumatologist that vitamin D is very low and been prescribed 20,000 units 3 times a week for 8 weeks.   Her letter stated that this could account for some of my symptoms.

WHAT????

What a convoluted way to find out that pain, fatigue, depression, obesity, etc. may be due to vitamin D deficiency and not rheumatoid arthritis.........."
===============
VTam, climb down, chill, take a deep breath. What you just posted there is a masterwork of jumping to a conclusion.

Stop tearing yourself up and stop hating your doctor. You are filling your whole body with stress chemicals.

For one thing, this Vitamin D stuff is new. She didn't know anything about it six years ago.

And beware of people on the Internet who use your suffering to further their social-political agendas.

For another, all she said is the deficiency could account for some of your symptoms. Not all of them, and not for sure.

There are thousands of people walking around who are short of vitamin D and who do not have the serious symptoms you listed.

Adopt a 'let's see' attitude, take the Vitamin D, and see what happens.

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:55 AM

VTam - 20,000 units? Are you SURE?

I too was low on vitamin D, even though I was taking a multivitamin everyday. The doctor prescribed more, 2000 units daily.

(To tell you the truth, I don't think it's making much difference.)

Subject: RE: BS: So that's why I feel like crap!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Dec 11 - 09:35 AM

Salmon yummy! Can you get oysters on the NHS?

Wikipedia says:

"Dietary sources
In some countries, staple foods are artificially fortified with vitamin D.[108] Dietary sources of vitamin D include:[1]
Fatty fish species, such as:
Catfish, 85 g (3 oz) provides 425 IU (5 IU/g)
Salmon, cooked, 100 g (3.5 oz) provides 360 IU (3.6 IU/g)
Mackerel, cooked, 100 g (3.5 oz), 345 IU (3.45 IU/g)
Sardines, canned in oil, drained, 50 g (1.75 oz), 250 IU (5 IU/g)
Tuna, canned in oil, 100 g (3.5 oz), 235 IU (2.35 IU/g)
Eel, cooked, 100 g (3.5 oz), 200 IU (2.00 IU/g)
A whole egg provides 20 IU if egg weighs 60 g (3 IU/g)
Beef liver, cooked, 100 g (3.5 oz), provides 15 IU (0.15 IU/g)
Fish liver oils, such as cod liver oil, 1 Tbs. (15 ml) provides 1360 IU (90.6 IU/ml)
UV-irradiated mushrooms and yeast are the only known vegan significant sources of vitamin D from food sources.[109][110] Exposure of portabella mushrooms to UV provides an increase of vitamin D content in an 100-g portion (grilled) from about 14 IU (0.14 IU/g non-exposed) to about 500 IU (5 IU/g exposed to UV light).[111]"