BS: what is a celebrity?

Subject: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 03:48 PM

just watched Celebrity Mastermind on tv - I'd never heard of any of the people.

Is it an English thing - celebrities that no one has heard of? Or is this an international phenomenon?

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 03:52 PM

It's a corollary to PT Barnum's theorem that one is born every minute.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 03:56 PM

They are generally people idolised by the working classes and oiks of Essex!!!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 04:27 PM

Salesman's puffing to sell a TV show.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 04:43 PM

I think the new definition of 'Celebrity' is someone who has never done anything excpet be on one or two Television shows that no one with a brain watches .

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: saulgoldie
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 05:25 PM

Some people are just famous for being famous. I won't name the names I am thinking of, because I think the best thing to do is to ignore them. But one of them was recently married for 72 days, and made millions off the marketing.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 05:59 PM

well tonight on tv, there was celebrity mastermind, celebrity ice skating, celebrity big brother, celebrity cooking.......

when did all this start.....! from whence comes it?

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 06:08 PM

A person whom excessive attention has rendered unworthy of attention.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 06:26 PM

Celebrity_Mastermind contestants.

Click on the name to see why they are celebrated. They seem like smart people.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: frogprince
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 06:35 PM

Big Al, don't you dare try to give the English credit for this wonderful social fenomenumb! I really thought the U.S. had cornered the market on it. Really I guess it's just about world wide by now.
I think we may be holding the lowest ground at the moment though; the series "Celebrity Wife Swap" just started on TV here. The first ad for it I saw said "expect the unexpected". To me, that would mean turning on the show and expecting to see people act in an intelligent and civil manner.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:32 PM

A "celebrity" USED to be someone whose name and occupation (usually show business) was known by almost everyone, such as Rita Hayworth, Clark Gable, Bing Crosby, or Ernest Hemingway. Over the years it has been misappropriated by promoters and rendered meaningless by sheer hype.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 07:48 PM

I think maybe Ernest Hemingway started it - he never seemed to have lunch with anyone I'd not heard of.

Scott Fitzgerald, Gertrude Stein, James Joyce, Ezra Pound.....famous bullfighters

I think maybe - he was a little bit intellectually intimidated by those guys. After all none of them could string two words together without making a reference to Dante or Shakespeare.

But I love Hemingway. Fuckingbrilliant writer.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Bert
Date: 08 Jan 12 - 11:49 PM

It's kinda like celery, but different.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 12:32 AM

"I & my Auntie Gertie think I'm a celebrity. Get me into here!"

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 12:35 AM

I think Hemingway's writing is brilliant, but I find his psychology rather odd at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 02:38 AM

BTW, Al ~~ as I think I mentioned to you, my Uncle Hyam Myer, who painted & drew & etched so many of the pix in my house, used to meet Hemingway at Nancy Cunard's in Paris in the mid-20s. I suppose he became a celebrity in the 20s & 30s, with a lot of attention to his first exhibition at age 19 which got him into gossip columns as well as the art press, friendship of the likes of Constant Lambert and Nina Hamnett, exhibitions in London galleries, membership of The London Group along with such as Epstein & Moore & Vanessa Bell et al, paintings in Royal Academy, work repro'd in prestigious journals like The Studio and Art&Design. But, unlike the with above-named, it didn't last. You'd find him on Google, but he has no wikipedia entry, and his is scarcely a name to conjure with among the artists of the time, like those above, & Bomberg say.

Celebrity can be very fleeting.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Musket
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 04:16 AM

Load of balls.

Have a look at The Guinness Book of British Hit Singles, (or the equivalent lists on Wikipedia if you must) and see all the people in the charts many years ago. Include the ones even you, dear reader, with a love of music in order to be on Mudcat, have either never heard of or had forgot they existed.

They were "celebrities" in their time, idolised by teenage fans, and the next generation older pointed the sucky end of their pipe towards the wayward teenager and said "In my day, we had real celebrities."

The difference if there is one is being fascinated and impressionable by what the goggle box in the corner. What it spews out is no longer the reserve of the young. In fact quite the opposite these days. That's why I can't get interested in pub quizzes. Be buggered if I have heard of any of the soap opera and TV talent show fodder. Might be excellent actors and singers for all I know, but thinking on, 90% of what I watch on telly is prerecorded documentaries, 10% football. The only time a "celebrity" crosses my path is when Lord High Jeremy Clarkson is struggling for a guest for star in a reasonably priced car.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 04:18 AM

I would guess that a celebrity is someone with a very pushy agent.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 06:33 AM

Someone without the talent to do anything useful and without the sense to keep quiet about it?

I must say I saw the same programme as Al and didn't recognise anyone either! One was an Olypic athlete I think though and I am unsure whether they are celebrities or not.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 07:26 AM

One must allow for the fact that, as we in the folk world well know, many people are celebrated in their own circles, but do not [& do not always wish to] make the breakthrough to national, or wider, celebrity. It is, too, one of Grosvenor Myer's Laws that those who do are rarely those most highly regarded within thir own milieu: I would instance that, tho the Dubliners who hit the charts were an excellent folksinging group, most of us could at the time have thought of a dozen we thought as good or better, in folksong terms, who never achieved that sort of celebrity.

So all this talk of 'never having heard of' some of these people on the 'celebrity' programmes &c by no means that they are not celebs to some not inconsiderable body of admirers wthin their own field. An example: one of my Jewish uncles was astonished that he met someone who didn't recognise the name of the Chief Rabbi of the time; he was quite taken aback when I challenged him to name the Moderator of the General Asssembly of the Church of Scotland.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 07:33 AM

didn't realise you had Red Sea pedestrian (as Derek Brimstone used to say) connections Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 07:47 AM

Didn't you, Al? I don't make secret of it; think I have mentioned to you connection to Louis B Mayer & Michael Winner, both notably part of that bit of the movie industry; name of my painter Uncle Hyam Myer, whose work figures prominently round the house, hardly an Oirish sounding name ...

OTOH, I don't, as some do, go on about it in circs where not relevant; and am a notionally baptised & confirmed member of CofE; and my default position has always been atheist, as has appeared on many threads on such topics; where the topic of my tribal antecedents has also been regularly featured... But mainly I just get on with my life without thinking too much of that part of it.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 08:58 AM

A celebrity is one who is recognized where ever he/she goes.
I walked into the Post Office the other day and a clerk said "You again."

I once asked Hemingway why did the chicken cross the road, and he said, "So it could die, alone in a ditch, in the rain.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 09:08 AM

Kendall is indeed a Celebrity. A folk legend and master musician. A music hero to me
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 09:20 AM

One of the celebs on one of the editions was "Stacey Solomon" - an X Factor contestant who did well on that show, is a pleasant enough personality, but you wouldn't want to discuss the Higgs-Boson particle with her.

To help her out on the general knowledge section, they set the questions to be as "chavvish" as possible, eg Wayne Rooney's wife, places in Ibitha.

One of the questions was: "Which sparkling French wine is named after the region of Northern France from which it comes?"

Stacey's answer:- "Jacobs Creek?"

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 10:27 AM

It's largely due to there being so many more places for people to become "famous" than there used to be. Instead a few major television networks, there are hundreds of cable channels, all of whom bestow an increasingly diluted version of fame upon an ever increasing number of "stars".

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 10:37 AM

Thanks, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 10:40 AM

'Kendall is indeed a Celebrity. A folk legend and master musician. A music hero to me'

yes indeed - can't think of another folksinger who has a system of dots and dashes and a mint cake named after him.

Do you remember that Through the Keyhole programme - where you went round someone's house and had to guess who it was . The celebrity panel - you could just about remember who they were - but there was always one contestant out of the two - that you had NEVER heard of.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 10:56 AM

Hey Acorn - I don't know if you saw the program, subconciously or otherwise, or if it is a huge co-incidence. I caught a celebrity 'Who Want's to be a Millionaire' the other day. Stacey Soloman was teemed with comedian Lee Mack - Guess what the answer to one of their questions was?

The Higgs-Boson particle!

I must say I had never heard of her until a few weeks ago when she was interviewed by someone. She does seem to be one of the better ones in that she is very capable of accepting someone making fun of her with good heart. In fact - she was quite self-deprecating and witty with it.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 12:16 PM

Mind you, I wouldn't want to discuss the HB Particle with anyone ~~ not because I wouldn't expect them to know anything about it, but because I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 01:55 PM

We went to the Pantomime 'Sleeping Beauty' at Norwich (UK) Theatre Royal on Friday. I enjoyed it tremendously, but it was only afterwards that our soap-addicted old friend who'd come with us remarked how excellent Beauty and her Prince were, and wasn't it wonderful to see them in the flesh? Apparently, Hayley Tamaddon and Kevin Sacre (of whom I'd never heard before) are in Emmerdale and Hollyoaks respectively. Meant nothing to me, but they sang quite well and looked nice!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 08:14 PM

They don't have panto in America, do they?

Ah well. 1.15 am .....and still..... no Dick!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: frogprince
Date: 09 Jan 12 - 11:35 PM

I truly hope that Dick is a family member whom Big Al is waiting up for....

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 01:30 AM

Start watching "reality TV" and you will soon ask, "What is reality?"

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 06:51 AM

hi

Interesting topic.

Is there any difference between a "celebrity" and a "star" ???

many years ago when my son was very young he used to collect autographs. In his case they were just from cricketers.

At least to collect autographs you had to know who it was you were asking.

I remember one day at Old Trafford when my son was after Geoff Boycott's autograph ( which he refused to give !!) when I spotted one of my favourite England cricketers., Ken Barrington. I told my son who he was and he went to Ken who was superb with my son. A true gentleman and a bloody fine cricketer.

After giving my son his autograph he asked him lots of questions about who he ( my son) played for and whether he was a batsman or bowler and gave hime some tips.etc etc. My son was very excited and found Ken to be very interesting.

As he walked away Ken winked at me and said that he knew that my son didn't know who he was when he asked for the autograph and that I had put him up to it.


I don't think Ken thought of himself as a celebrity but in my son's eyes he was a star.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:37 AM

A star is someone who stands head and shoulders above a celebrity.A matter of degree.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 07:46 AM

The terms are not mutually exclusive, but overlap in many ways; they can also be modified ~~ a star in a specific field would only be a celebrity to those with knowledge of that field, as I have said before. I do not happen to know who is the Tae Kwan Do champion of Scotland; but he is a star & a celebrity to the aficionados of that particular sport.

Ask 50 random passers-by who Martin Carthy is; I should be surprised of more than 10 could even venture a guess. Whereas to all of us on this forum...

Ronald Searle died last week. I mentioned this to someone, & was astounded she didn't know who I was talking about. Hands up if you don't...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Brian May
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 08:02 AM

Anyone that's been on TV longer than the MacDonalds advert . . .

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 09:36 AM

Carl Sandburg once said that "a celebrity is one who eats celery with celerity."

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 09:59 AM

A star is a celebrity but a celebrity is not necessarily a star. I'm famous among those who know me.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 10:07 AM

My daughter was in Leicester Square on Sun. to watch Wills, Kate, Mr Spielberg, Benedict Cumberbatch, Joey the Horse etc attend the film premiere of "War Horse".

Thank God I wasn't there - a familiar figure with long hair, specs and beard approached the red carpet - daughter yells "JOHNNNNNNN TAMMMMMMMS!" at the top of her voice. To the mystification of the autograph hounds round her....

I look forward to Tam's anecdotes at the next gig! I think.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 10 Jan 12 - 09:24 PM

A star, quite simply, is someone who shines at his or her craft. A star comedian, for example, is someone who is very funny. George Carlin would be a star. A celebrity is someone in that field who blows donkey dick from Saturn but is still famous for some damn reason no one can figure out. Andy Dick, for example, is a celebrity. He has to be the worst comedian I ever saw in my life and I fervently hope each time I see him will be the last but somehow this totally unfunny shitbox manages to grab the media spotlight--usually to apologize for some other completely stupid, unfunny thing he said that he obviously thought was going to prove to everyone that he really is funny and witty in a risque way but merely results in yet another face-palm moment.

And the celebrities are increasing.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 12:23 AM

5.22am and still no Dick........!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: grumpy al
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 05:25 AM

Come on Al, you know what a celebrity is! you are one, around here at least, with your mastery of the guitar and unique song writing style both serious and humerous.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 05:42 AM

... AND a ❂

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jan 12 - 05:46 AM

still no dick......

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 04:56 AM

Have you ever done panto , Mike?

Baron Hardup, or the Dame. I bet you would be good.

I had a friend who was Wishy Washy, the Chinese magician. I 've done the music for a couple of amateur things. Very tiring.....nearly three hours following cues, two shows on Saturday. A lot of fun though.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 05:19 AM

Yes, as matter of fact, Al ~~ even Dame; an Ugly Sister in Cinderella once.

At a loss, tho, as to precise purpose of your qustn???

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jan 12 - 05:48 AM

They are a creation of the media....even Presidential candidates!
Its hype..sorta like canned applause...or laughter...or, ever been to a TV set stage, and some guy tells a shitty joke..and the 'applause signs' start blinking?...Hype!..Same way the 'corporate news media' covers politics. You can readily see the effects it has...even on here!
They give us a choice of people NOBODY likes, then blow them and the 'issues' up, like they are the ONLY game in town! They are doing it for this election, big time....like trying to give the impression that the next 'American(News)Idol', will be the next President....but in reality..nothing is different...You'll even notice that the 'talking points' switch from one party to the other..and back again!~
Shit!..how do you think Obama got 'elected'?

Hope that answers your question...or at least set you on a path for your quest to find the 'mystical answer'!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 01:35 AM

Hey Hawkers,...are you a 'celebrity' yet?

Grins!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Ernest
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 02:03 AM

a british celery      :0D

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: melodeonboy
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 02:55 AM

I like Leadfingers' definition!

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 04:06 AM

Brad Paisley's dig at the whole celebrity thing is worth a listen.

Brad Paisley Youtube

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 05:05 AM

LoL. Thank you, Tunesmith.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 12 - 10:10 PM

Case in point: Kim Kardasian! ....Worthless, talentless, unscrupulous, hype monger!!!....But they lap it up, as if she had any remote sense of talent or worth beyond her self-absorbed self!

(A female Obama or Romney)!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 12:18 PM

Celebrities are a business, a way to maximize profit by hoodwinking people into thinking that some ubiquitous personalities are more important than others, a scam worthy of bank bailouts,an egregious ego-driven occupation that doesn't serve society or anyone else.

There is the "Hugh Hefner Syndrome" involved that is analogous to the acquiring of wealth by millionaires and billionaires, the idea that anyone can reach these vacuous heights, regardless of luck or environment. The notion of a "star" is completely destructive in that it hides the talent and ability of some of these people who know how to be good in the acting profession.

Hollywood is a promulgator of this delusion, the idea that fat businessmen can create an image that will act as a drug for poor working people who dream of aspiring to this bogus level. (Hold your nose, here comes the cigar smoke).

The supreme characterization of this sick phenomenon is Paris Hilton, buying her way to fame and glory.

The "rock star" business has also infected the music industry as well as movies and other professions including politics, authors, speakers, etc.

Most people will never achieve this goal in spite of their delusion.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Genie
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 03:58 PM

"A celebrity is one who is recognized where ever he/she goes."
I'd say that's a better definition of "famous" (person).    That would include the infamous, as well (Osama Bin Laden, Hitler, Charles Manson, e.g.).

I guess technically, a "celebrity" is someone whose existence or presence is "celebrated" (especially by the mass media).    "Celebrities" tend to be given "the red carpet treatment" and maybe treated as "VIPs" ("very important people").   
If they're given media attention and VIP treatment along with honors (a nobel prize, Oscar, Grammy, critical acclaim, Heissman (sp?) trophy), they're considered "stars" (especially in sports or entertainment). And if they are followed by millions of adoring "fan(atic)s," they're considered "rock stars."

I think today's TV (and associated infotainment) media generally use the term "celebrity" pretty exclusively for people in sports or entertainment whose names and faces are widely recognized (for the moment, anyway), but not so much for people much more highly respected and honored in fields like politics, business, science, religion, literature, etc.

It's not unusual to see/hear a statement in our US mass media such as: "The magazine issue features President Obama, The Pope, Bill Gates, Stephen Hawking, John Grisham and a number of celebrities, too."

Kind of like the statement I one heard on a TV "news" show: "The President is a real rock star!"

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 04:39 PM

"Celebrity" used to mean something. A person had to DO something, especially something that exhibited talent, ability, or knowledge, such as a singer, actor, comedian, writer, or statesman (as contrasted with someone who was a mere "politician"). It had to be consistent, over a period of time, not just "instant celebrity" by making one appearance on television and managing to get through their act with not too many prat-falls.

But within recent years, the word has been pre-empted by hucksters, promoters, and no-talents, and accepted without question by the gullible. It has fallen into that category of misused words such as "classic" for anything that was hatched up just last week, or "folk song" for a simple ditty that someone wrote on the bus yesterday.

How many people are you aware of now who have never exhibited any kind of talent, or have done nothing notable, but who are, nevertheless, "famous for being famous?"

There seem to be hordes of "celebrities" these days that have never done anything much except take up space.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Alice
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 05:54 PM

boycottkim.com to boycott all things KarTRASHian.

Subject: RE: BS: what is a celebrity?
From: Genie
Date: 14 Jan 12 - 05:59 PM

Not only that, Don, but our infotainment media today do not seem to want to acknowledge the most illustrious, famous, and honored of people as "celebrities" unless they're in the sports or entertainment fields.

As for "celebrities" who, to my knowledge, have done nothing notable, but who are, nevertheless, "famous for being famous," I think that applies to the majority of "reality TV stars" (not necessarily including talent show winners who go on to become "stars" in their field) as well as to some bloggers, gossip columnists, and people like "Octomom" or Amy Fisher, whose names are known because of some weird news story or "scandal."

I recently saw a list of the cast of Donald Trump's new season of "Celebrity Apprentice," along with a brief description of their "strengths" and "weaknesses," and at least half them were people I had never heard of (I'm guessing entertainment industry flavors-of-the-month and/or people who were on shows like "The Bachelor"). Not being a huge consumer of TV or of Billboard-chart music, it's easy for me not to be aware of who is the hot item of the moment among teens, tweens, and TV junkies.