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BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist'
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Subject: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Apr 12 - 03:53 PM I didn't realize he was as young as he was, the man made an institution of selling faux-rustic and light-within art for many years. There were scams related to franchises with his galleries. Anyway, he died at age 54. Thomas Kinkade obit in The New York Times Thomas Kinkade, the prolific painter of bucolic and idealized scenes who estimated that his mass-produced works hung in one out of 20 American homes, died on Friday at his home in Los Gatos, Calif. He was 54. Read the rest of the story at the link. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,EBarnacle Date: 07 Apr 12 - 04:43 PM My biggest complaint about Kinkade was that he perpetrated a fraud on the ignorant. He numbered every piece and sold poster quantities at significant markups because they were "limited editions." Most reputable artists limit their litho editions to less than 1000 pieces and limit their giclee prints to fewer than 200 pieces. They are maintaining value for their buyers by limiting their quantities. Kinkade was only interested in the bottom line. He was sued for selling dealerships and then undermining the dealers. He lost. From me, he gets no respect. He was a con man as much as he was an artist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Zany Mouse Date: 07 Apr 12 - 04:54 PM Regardless of his morals/ethics, his painting brought - and bring - a lot of pleasure to a lot of people. Not my style but a lot of people were very touched by these paintings. Don't like the quote marks on 'artist' either. Again, regardless of opinions on style etc he was a very good artist. Proof is in the pudding - many people have prints in their h0mes. Rhiannon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 07 Apr 12 - 04:56 PM Two words come to mind to describe the painting that accompanies the obituary: "ghastly" and "travesty." I was about to include "lie," but decided that a Romantic representational painter of real talent (like Thomas Cole or Albert Bierstadt) might have been able to pull off such a scene, fanciful as it is. But, hey, you can't argue with a lack of taste! Kincade's customers love his pictures! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Raparree Date: 07 Apr 12 - 06:51 PM If people enjoyed it, where's the harm? I didn't care for his work, but then I don't care for the work of quite a few painters, musicians, sculptors and other artists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 07 Apr 12 - 07:28 PM Zany Mouse, some of them are in the home of one of my family members, thanks for that. They have always loved his works regardless of what others say. Kind of mean, of a lot of you, to denigrate those who do like his stuff. My relly is neither ignorant nor lacking in taste. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: michaelr Date: 07 Apr 12 - 08:02 PM Sorry kat, but Kinkade does not remotely deserve to be called "artist". He was a kitsch monger on a grand scale. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 07 Apr 12 - 08:29 PM The argument that kitsch cheers people up and harms no one goes only so far. The torrent of mass-produced kitsch also tells them that kitsch is the norm, that the tastes they formed at the age of twelve are the best of all, and that life itself is really, really simple, like a children's book. It also seems unfortunate that mass-marketing of Kinkade's stuff crowds out greater works. Many young people graduate from Kinkade to real painters, but that's in spite of his work, not because of it. And there have been far more talented kitschmasters than Kinkade: if pretty atmospheres are your cup of tea, try Maxfield Parrish. He was a "painter of light" who at least understood something about light. Moral: There's no accounting for taste, but there's no excuse for complacency either. (If there were, there'd be no need for universities.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 12 - 08:47 PM Sorry to learn of his passing but... ...art??? Give me a break... B~ (B.A. Fine Arts, VCU, '76) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Arkie Date: 07 Apr 12 - 08:51 PM I tend to buy what I like in graphic art and music. I expect others to do the same. I am not influenced by "critics" or other people's opinions. People tend to give their opinions about graphic art and music whether or not it is asked for. A lot of people did enjoy Kinkade's paintings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 12 - 09:00 PM A lot of people love their "Elvis on Black Felt" that can be bought on the side of the road through out the South and Midwest... There's a reason why this guy's stuff isn't in major galleries... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 07 Apr 12 - 09:05 PM And others enjoy Picasso. If Kincaid is your cuppa, great. For years I thought Normal Rockwell was the height of kitsch, and then I saw this rendition of the Goodman, Schwerner and Cheney killings. Since then I have learned to appreciate his work. Perhaps someday I'll appreciate Kincaid, but he's just not my "thing." Raparree (BA, with minors in a whole buncha stuff, 1970) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,EBarnacle, former partner with a "real" arti Date: 07 Apr 12 - 09:27 PM My objection is not to the work itself but the marketing. He was selling what amounts to open edition art at limited edition prices. If he were to sell smaller, actually limited, editions at premium prices and sold the remainder of the printing at poster prices, or at least marked down prices, I would consider it fair. His work was Currier and Ives for this era. Good stuff but not great art. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Apr 12 - 10:26 PM Upon her retirement the principal at my children's elementary school was thrilled to receive a limited edition (they thought) painting that looks just like all of his other paintings, the cabin in the woods. I saw it and that was the first time the name and the art registered together. I thought it looked like something from an ad in the back of the Sunday Parade magazine tucked into in every newspaper in America (i.e., lowest common denominator). Maybe in years from now these will become collectible in the same way Pez containers and super-hero lunchboxes are collected. They represent a period and an audience. What I resent about the thing was mentioned already - they thought they were getting something that not only she liked, but that would have real value because of how they purchased it as a limited edition. Fool me once, shame on you. I think the PTA was fooled into believing their hard-earned dollars were going to a gift that would grow in value. There is charm in what he was representing - but he wasn't representing anything real. That America didn't ever really exist. Except maybe for Walt Disney. I think the references to other popular illustrators are germane, though I think Parrish and Rockwell had a wider range of art they produced in their lifetimes. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 12 - 10:31 PM Yup, Magz... It's called "factory art"... One guy can pump out hundreds a day... Not real art... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 08 Apr 12 - 12:26 AM Arkie, well-said. Rap, that work by Rockwell is stunning. Thanks for posting it. I must say there seems a bit of snobbery going on in here with everyone spouting about their degrees. I know you've studied and even created your own (Bobert is a REAL artist, imo), but, as I said before, my sister is not ignorant, she even has a degree,too! The fellah died, too damn young,imo, and brought a lot of people, apparently, some joy. It is too bad he was not truthful in his marketing, though. May he rest in peace, regardless, kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: EBarnacle Date: 08 Apr 12 - 12:31 AM I do not deny the enjoyment. I simply state that there should be a "value given for value received" relationship between buyer and seller. Kinkade inflated the value of his work by fraudulent presentation. He violated the fair balance of the relationship. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 08 Apr 12 - 12:48 AM I agree with you on that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: open mike Date: 08 Apr 12 - 03:26 AM well, his cottages always looked inviting to me...esp. the thatched rooved ones...http://www.thomaskinkade.com/magi/servlet/com.asucon.ebiz.catalog.web.tk.CatalogServlet?catalogAction=Category&menuNdx=0.5 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Megan L Date: 08 Apr 12 - 04:58 AM "There's a reason why this guy's stuff isn't in major galleries" How many ordinary working people go to major galleries or for that matter concerts? Well if people keep looking down their nose at you because your taste does not slavishly ape theirs it is no wonder folk stay away in droves and prefer Kincade and Vettriano to Manet or Modigliani. Just because you are clever does not mean you are wise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: EBarnacle Date: 08 Apr 12 - 08:42 AM The differenceis marketing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 08 Apr 12 - 09:38 AM Lots of people go to major galleries... I took my mom to the National Gallery in Washington, D.C. for the last Van Gogh exhibit... The tickets were free but you had to request them on the inter-net or by mail... Over the two or three weeks tens of thousands of people were able to see it... Just about every large city has a decent gallery and lots of well known art stays in a constant "loan" state... Okay, Kat... You're right... Forget the fact that I have a degree in art... Still not wild about lots (but not all) of Kindade's stuff... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,josepp Date: 08 Apr 12 - 10:33 AM There must be Christmas card artists that wanted to kill this guy. He was painting in their genre and making a fortune and they were lucky to get any of theirs exhibited on a Hallmark card. He was rolling in dough and there were barely getting by. And many of them were far better artists then he was but they didn't have his marketing savvy. He was a shyster in just about every sense of the word. Yeah, okay, if people enjoyed his stuff then what's the harm? But people enjoy "Bachelor" and "Jersy Shore" but that doesn't make it great television. The masses are largely stupid--especially in America. So if you want to be their artist, it means you paint crap. And I'm wondering how many of these dopes think their paintings are worth something now that Kinkade is dead. Here's what they're worth: Nothing. There's so many of them and so many prints--litterally tens of millions--they'll never be worth anything. 500 years from now they'll still be worth nothing. Moreover, many of these paintings are not painted by him from what I understand. They were students and other artists hired to assist in this forgery mill. Then he'd put his name on them and off to the galleries they go. He was no Maxfield Parrish or Norman Rockwell. Those men had real talent even if their subject matter wasn't always all that serious. Kinkade was a nothing more than a Christmas card artist con man. So if you bought one--sure--be happy with it and be happy with the fact that you're also an idiot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 08 Apr 12 - 11:07 AM Rockwell and Parrish were, above all, brilliant craftsmen. Rockwell especially controlled a nearly photographic realism, which he customarily wedded to sentimentality and gentle satire. (As we see, he could do more than that, but magazine covers were his livelihood, serious art his avocation.) But those three elements combined give his work interest and depth. There's more going on in a Rockwell cover than in a Kinkade fantasy. And Kinkade's choice of images tend to repeat and repeat and repeat. The comparison of Kinkade with Currier & Ives is a good one. Like Kinkade, Currier & Ives weren't even trying to turn out great art, and they didn't. They were simply selling products to people who wanted affordable pictures. Unlike Kinkade's stuff, though, Currier & Ives illustrate all sorts of different subjects, some of them (explosions, sinkings, etc.) rather disturbing, even if the technique is usually primitive or highly sentimental. There's more varied and sometimes subtler emotion conveyed (albeit crudely) in many C & I lithographs than in K's work. It's one thing to like what you like. But it's self-defeating to hail cynically produced hack work as something sweet and charming, particularly when the hack's own ads are constantly telling you so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 08 Apr 12 - 02:07 PM Bobert, you will note I said YOU are someone I view as a REAL artist esp as I happen to have one of your beautiful pieces through your generosity. I've no degrees, so perhaps that makes me a bit tetchy when people start dumping on other peoples' tastes by making note of their "qualifications." Knowing technique, etc. is great, but one also needs to be moved by art. My sister feels that way about this guy, so what difference does a degree make? There's no wrong or right, imo. Just differences in taste, etc. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 08 Apr 12 - 02:57 PM There's too little joy in this world, if Kinkaid's work brings it to someone I'm all for it. I would GREATLY appreciate it if you did NOT present me with any of it, thank you. It's no more my cuppa tea than Hummel figurines and someday we'll inherit a wagon-load of those from my MIL, or the "Madonna collection" (not the singer, the other one) we inherited from my wife's aunt. Or Avon bottles or old bottles or stamps.... But if ol' Bobert wants to send me a painting, well, heck, I'd probably break down and accept it. Or one of the Unknown Monets he has in his attic.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kindade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 08 Apr 12 - 07:26 PM Sorry, but the paintings I have left are in my or my family member's homes and we know who will be custodians of them after we're gone... Drawings, prints & pen 'n inks??? Different story... Of that body of work half are safe... The other half??? I donno... I have been hunting one in particular for years... I have a photo of it but someone in the family has it stashed or has lost it... I hope it turns up... BTW, my first art teacher was a neighbor by the name of Will Anderson... I have 2 of his grease pencil drawing he did in Africa... Great artist... He was in Europe right after WWII and art was cheap... He had an original Bosch painting and two original woodcuts by Albrecht Durer in his home... I'll see if I can find somethin' for you, Rap... I have been known to just rip a page out of one of my old sketch books... They all have something of interest... Sorry... No Monet's... Well, no original Monet's.. I do have a very large "Water Lillies" framed print... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 08 Apr 12 - 08:30 PM Hell's Bells, Bobert, I got one of them. I wanted one of those you found on when you were a broad during your junior year in gay Paree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: frogprince Date: 08 Apr 12 - 09:18 PM "when you were a broad" heeheeheee...I luv this bunch of idjits. : ) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 09 Apr 12 - 10:47 AM I've been looking at books of architecture and decor, because we are considering a major remodel. I have to say that y'all are not noticing the great Battle for the Home which is being waged all about us. Now, here's what you do. Go to this YouTube video: dining room Be alert, because you don't want to miss the first one second, which gives an overview. Pay no attention to the dialog: simply note the machined inhumanity of that room, the squares, the rectangles, the sharp edges, the cold white paint. Note the glassware (probably not supposed to be there) all the same height, all the same distance apart, "in serried ranks assembled." There are vases, but there are no flowers in them. That is how we are supposed to be living, according to the books. The rulers of decor have no patience with whimsy or with humor. Even nature is highly suspect. Now consider a Thomas Kincade painting. There's not a straight line in sight. It's soft, it's complex, sometimes there are people in it, being sociable. It has depth - you can imagine yourself walking into it. Kinkade's art satisfies the yearnings of bored, lonely people. And there's nothing wrong with being bored and lonely in the homes that today's designers seem to approve of. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: SINSULL Date: 09 Apr 12 - 10:58 AM An autopsy is being done on Kinkade's body. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: KB in Iowa Date: 09 Apr 12 - 12:16 PM GUEST,leeneia, when I click on yoor link it takes me to a manuscript from Oxford Universtiy. Not a dining room in sight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 09 Apr 12 - 12:55 PM Me too... No dining room... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: KB in Iowa Date: 09 Apr 12 - 12:59 PM As far as Thomas Kinkade goes I am reminded of the line attributed to Tallulah Bankhead. "There's less here than meets the eye" is a pretty good summation (though I don't care for what meets the eye, either). You are, of course, free to disagree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 09 Apr 12 - 10:49 PM Oops! dining room - take 2 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Apr 12 - 09:58 AM I don't think Kinkade is a brilliant artist, either. I just want to point out that we live in an era which is too damn serious. Everybody is so EARNEST. Remember when you could watch TV in the evening and people told jokes, sang or danced? Now it's all crime and reality. Remember when there were funny songs on the radio? Now it's all sadness and niche marketing. Decorating is the same. We must be serious about this. Knickknacks are not allowed. Wallpaper is not allowed. It's okay to design a staircase that a toddler could plunge off of, but by God, it better be built of a green material. Kinkade's art appeals to a person's desire for fantasy and escape, and as such it will never win the approval of today's arbiters of taste. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST Date: 10 Apr 12 - 11:31 AM I'd like to see some of Boberts art b/c I totally agree with his assessment of Kinkaid. Have we become so politically correct we can't see the difference between an artist and a hack. Who cares how many homes he's in. Every home has a toilet too, doesn't make it fine art. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST Date: 10 Apr 12 - 11:52 AM I know of more than a few homes that have an outhouse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 10 Apr 12 - 12:26 PM >Every home has a toilet too, doesn't make it fine art. In 1917 Marcel Duchamp presented a urinal at an art exhibition. It was just a urinal, titled "Fountain," signed in large letters "R. Mutt 1917." That was the beginning. However, as "art," Duchamp's "Fountain" is a lot more interesting than Kinkade's paintings. Why? Because calling it "art" intentionally raised questions about what art really is, questions emphasized by the ostentatious fake signature and its placement in an exhibition. And in 1917 that kind of weird behavior, from an established avant-garde painter, was daring and scandalous. As an "art object," "Fountain" is junk, but as a concept that raised questions and invigorated theories of art, it was genius. It shook the art world. Kinkade's pictures, though, are just kitschy sentiment, designed to do nothing but sell. They can't even boast of Parrish and Rockwell's excellent technique. They *are* wallpaper, for people who think wallpaper is a fine art. How long can "joy" in a Kinkade painting last, before the image just becomes flat and familiar? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Apr 12 - 12:28 PM Can't people just enjoy something without it being fine art? I believe that the main motive for the earnestness I spoke of is that it pressures people into spending more on their homes than they should. It's good for retailers, bad for the owner's peace of mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 12 - 12:29 PM Jeez, ever heard of Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Megan L Date: 10 Apr 12 - 12:39 PM Ach now Kat my dear you should know thatthere are folk around the who think the 1st commandment refers to them and we should all worship at their word :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 12 - 01:08 PM LOL, thanks for the reminded, Meg, m'dear!:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: KB in Iowa Date: 10 Apr 12 - 02:37 PM I have three toilets but no Kinkades. I did enjoy the corrected link leeneia, had never heard of Harry and Paul (being on the west side of the pond). Good stuff (I watched several of them). Did not like the decorating scheme in the original video though, thought it quite boring. We decorate any way we like and this includes a number of original artworks. I still don't like Kinkade. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 12 - 04:44 PM Just by chance, I received an email this morning which included a link to an artist's blog about a beaded piece he has been working on for seven years. There are photos of each section and much about how he is bring awareness to people about the water of our planet. His work-in-progress is called the Four Seasons of Water. Some beautiful images - links on the right on THIS PAGE. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,kendall Date: 10 Apr 12 - 04:50 PM I don't care what the critics thought of his work, I like it. They have a fairy tale quality that I find appealing. I also like the poetry of Henry W. Longfellow who was also considered less than great. At least he has a spot in Westminster Abbey, the only American to be so honored. Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 10 Apr 12 - 07:16 PM Sorry, GUEST, but I have no real computer skills to post any of my art work... Maybe someone who has one of my prints does... As for Kinkade, there is a concept/technique known as "painterly" which involves layering of pigment and medium... The Van Eyck are probably the most painterly artist in history as they actually build jewels in their paintings that have relief... Meaning, if you were to touch one you would feel it as if it wasn't paint but a 3 dimensional object... Kinkade, is 180 degrees from the Van Eycks... His paintings are flat... Kinda like air brush... Kinda like paint by numbers... That is MHO... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: kendall Date: 10 Apr 12 - 07:32 PM It's all a matter of taste, or the lack of it. Bobert, Jacqui will attempt to post one of your drawings tomorrow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,LIghter Date: 10 Apr 12 - 07:48 PM > It's all a matter of taste, or the lack of it. Very true, except that discussion and consideration can expand or alter taste. Otherwise Shakespeare and Edgar Guest are the same, because people like both. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: kendall Date: 10 Apr 12 - 08:27 PM Well said. I like both Shakespeare and Longfellow, but I don't put them in the same league. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 10 Apr 12 - 08:43 PM He MUST be a Great Artist, as there is more discussion of his art now that he's dead than there ever was here during his lifetime. ("PROVE you're a real artist!" "Okay, here's a stack of overdue bills and an eviction notice.") |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 10 Apr 12 - 08:54 PM Well, Rap, there's is some truth to what you say... The late Robert Rauschenberg attended an art auction where one of his paintings, owned by someone else, brought some seriously big bucks... After the auction Rauschenberg went up to the buyer and said, "Geeze, next time you want a Raushenberg, call me" and handed the buyer a slip of paper with his phone number on it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: ranger1 Date: 10 Apr 12 - 10:10 PM Kendall, Longfellow is buried in Evergreen Cemetary, not in Westminster Abbey. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: ranger1 Date: 10 Apr 12 - 10:18 PM Oops! We're both wrong - he's buried in Massachusetts. But he does have a bust in Westminster Abbey. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 12 - 11:00 PM There are two scans of a pen and ink which Bobert kindly gifted to me a few years ago HERE. Something I will always treasure! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,kendall Date: 11 Apr 12 - 07:22 AM We also have an original Bobert. Beautiful piece of work. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: EBarnacle Date: 11 Apr 12 - 08:34 AM There is now a boomlet in his art. At least the people buying his originals don't have 1 of 15,000... PLACERVILLE (AP).- In Thomas Kinkade's hometown, at the gallery where his art career first took off, an original painting by the self-described "Painter of Light" sat unsold for years. Buyers were perhaps deterred by the $110,000 asking price. The painting, "Sunday Outing," was being sold on consignment, and when word came Friday night that Kinkade had died, its owner called and asked for the selling price to be raised to $150,000, gallerist Nathan Ross said Monday. The painting sold hours later. It wasn't the only one. Barraged with orders from customers in person, on the phone and online, Ross has called in as much extra help as he can find. He said on a typical day he'll sell one to five Kinkade pieces through the gallery's website. In the last 48 hours, he says he's received about 300 online orders. "Phones are just ringing nonstop. We have five lines and they're constantly lit up. People are waiting in line to buy paintings," Ross said. "It's just been a real juggling match to make sure everyone gets taken care of." Other galleries across the country that specialize in Kinkade's work are reporting a similar surge in sales following the popular painter's death at age 54. John Vassallo, who owns five Kinkade galleries in New York and New Jersey, says sales on Saturday reached half his typical sales for the entire month of December, the busiest month of the year. Like most Kinkade retailers, Vassallo traffics not in originals but limited edition reproductions, many of which come hand-signed by the artist himself. Any piece with Kinkade's original signature is in high demand at a cost of $8,000 to $15,000, said Vassallo, who counted Kinkade as a personal friend. "It's been a tragic cost unfortunately," Vassallo said of Kinkade's death, "but I know that Thom is looking down and bringing the people." Vassallo also said he believed Kinkade likely left behind unreleased work that would help feed public demand even after the painter's death. The Morgan Hill company that produces and distributes Kinkade's art hinted in a weekend message to gallery owners and employees that such work did indeed exist. "He leaves behind a rich legacy of published and unpublished work and has inspired generations of artists to follow in his brushstrokes," Thomas Kinkade Co. CEO John Hasting wrote in the statement. Hasting said later that the company was heartened by the outpouring of appreciation of Kinkade's work. The company hasn't offered any specifics on how much sales have increased. . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 11 Apr 12 - 09:09 AM Thank you so much, Kat, for posting that print... I did a one-man-show at The Gallery in Richmond entitled "Pieces of Richmond" and had 200 of that pen-and-ink printed and made them available to the folks who attended the show... After the show I ended up with about 50 and have given them to friends over the years... Last I looked I have 2 left... But I still have the original... BTW, that drawing is one of about 30 that were in the show along with about a dozen paintings... Thanks again... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 11 Apr 12 - 09:25 AM >"I know that Thom is looking down and bringing the people." And now, a departed spirit at God's right hand promotes his own earthly products from Heaven. That's the mindset of these guys. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: KB in Iowa Date: 11 Apr 12 - 11:15 AM "I know that Thom is looking down and bringing the people." You would like to think Thom has better things to do now than to keep making $$ for his empire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Pete Jennings Date: 11 Apr 12 - 11:52 AM Nice work, Bobert, and thanks to Kat for the post. As for Kinkade, well, he didn't force anyone to buy his work even if some of his marketing methods were, er, dubious. I don't particularly like his work but that's only my opinion even if, like the Bobster, I am qualified to give it. Live and let live. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: katlaughing Date: 11 Apr 12 - 12:06 PM Thank you, Bobert, esp. for the "provenance" of the piece. It is very special to me. luvyakat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,josepp Date: 11 Apr 12 - 04:53 PM Well, Bobert's art certainly has more heart and character than anything you'll ever see in a Kinkade picture. Similar to Aubrey Beardsley but not copying him. As for people spending $150,000 on a Kinkade piece of junk, it's just like the idiot who spent $50,000 on a complete set of Beanie Babies back in the 90s. When you're speculating on stuff like this that does not have any true artistic merit but only populist appeal, you have to understand that the bottom could drop out at any moment. It's no different than a housing bubble except it's an art bubble, it will rise fast and if you're right there to cash in on it, you can make some money but if you wait too long, it will burst. Who cares about Beanie Babies anymore? Sooner or later--sooner than later--the Kinkade demand will top out. fF you've got Kinkades--sell them now. Don't get greedy and wait. No reputable art dealer will have anything to do with a Kinkade and once that reality sinks in, show's over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 11 Apr 12 - 05:18 PM Thanks pete and joez... Actually, if you go to one of these "starving artist" sales that are held in lobbies of motels you'll find a lot of paintings which look very much like Kincade's... Back in art school we referred to these as either factory are or formula art... I mean, this doesn't mean the guy can't paint because he surely can... But he hasn't put much thought into his paintings and most are variation of Venician landscapes or cottages... BTW, Venician landscapes don't have to be "landscapes"... It's a composition that follows a Z (Zorro) formula with the background being purposely hazy which is called atmospheric perspective... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,josepp Date: 11 Apr 12 - 05:54 PM It wasn't anything you didn't see Bob Ross do in half an hour except Ross's stuff was better and never did Ross ever try to suggest any of these paintings were worth a crap. They were just to help art students get some extra looks at how to make a basic painting. My mother was a painter and says Kinkade's stuff is what a year's worth of art lessons allows you to do. But visual art--like good poetry and prose--needs to be saying something. No poet expects people to swoon over: Got up this morning Scratched my rump Before my shower I took a dump There should be something the author wants to say that may inspire us. Kinkade doesn't do that and he made no attempt to do that. It was fast buck art for people who find Ernst and Picasso too challenging. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,josepp Date: 11 Apr 12 - 06:01 PM Ok, THIS is a Kinkade I would buy! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Pete Jennings Date: 12 Apr 12 - 05:42 AM Nah! THIS is the Kinkade to buy! LOL! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 12 Apr 12 - 07:36 AM Nice geetar... I play a parlor style so I love 'um... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST Date: 12 Apr 12 - 08:36 AM Isn't Indian Rosewood what got Gibson into trouble? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Pete Jennings Date: 12 Apr 12 - 09:06 AM Hey Bobs, you mentioned that Kinkade's art is referred to as "factory are or formula art". Over here we'd call it "chocolate box" (or worse, "wallpaper"!). Ever heard of that? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 12 Apr 12 - 09:23 AM Nope, Pete... Must be a UK'r thing... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 12 Apr 12 - 10:39 AM Pete, we don't say "chocolcate box" because our chocolates come in plain boxes. Russell Stover's, for example, come in a white box with a red ribbon printed on it. Whitman's come in a yellow box with cross-stitch embroidery motifs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Pete Jennings Date: 12 Apr 12 - 11:30 AM Okay, we learn something everyday. Actually thinking about it, "wallpaper" seems to be slowly taking over from "chocolate box" for mundane art for much the same reason - a move away from the Kinkade-type twee cottages, woodland scenes, etc., on the box lids to more contemporary images and brand-designs like those Leeneia describes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 12 Apr 12 - 05:45 PM Oh. I see. Bobert does representational art. I still want one, though. I suppose I could possibly put up with something like that, maybe in the bathroom or the back closet, even if it doesn't really get to the essence of the subject and is merely a two-dimensional attempt to engage the viewer with the subject and after all, isn't all art simply attempts to portray that which Plato said were only shadows on the wall? I'd better stop before I make myself barf. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Pete Jennings Date: 13 Apr 12 - 06:31 AM Plato's main take on art was that it could only ever produce copies of the real thing (nature), "simulacra". (Barf!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: EBarnacle Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:41 AM Once, when we were discussing pricing, several years ago, Willard Bond and I concluded that pricing was largely a function of size, not quality, within a given artists offerings--"like wallpaper." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:22 AM Okay, I'll pay up to USD 20.00 for a verified Rembrandt miniature. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 13 Apr 12 - 09:41 AM >Plato's main take on art was that it could only ever produce copies of the real thing (nature), "simulacra". That's because, in Plato's day, the artists he knew of hadn't thought to do anything else. Realistic representational art is tough enough! (I forget how he dealt with music.) The real thing was the real thing. Like Pan and Medusa. What else was there? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Apr 12 - 10:36 AM @Pete Jennings, I think the comparison to your "chocolate boxes" or "wallpaper" was the remark way up there about "greeting card" art. Not taken as seriously, it is generally considered ephemeral. I love the term "simulacra." But that elevates this discussion way above Kinkade's oeuvre. :) SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Ebbie Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:45 AM Either the term 'art' is more exclusive than I think or what I enjoy is not art. I don't have a Kinkade and I don't spend time scrutinizing his depictions on the many calendars, ads and blurbs of all kinds. However, that said, I do have three framed photos on my wall that I have no doubt belong in Kinkade's class. One is of a house tucked into woodland with a mossy path leading around the curve; it is Autumn and the colors are rich. Another photo/painting is of a cottage perched above a rocky stream while the last is a different view of the same scene, taking one's eye from the stream up slabs of stone to the cottage above. They are not "art", I'm sure, but for me, they'll do until the real thing comes along. It is kind of like saying/believing that the sound one gets from a guitar, fiddle or banjo is not actually music at all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Pete Jennings Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:48 AM That's right SRS, once the chocs are gone the box goes in the bin! (Sorry, the recycling bag). And "ephemeral"'s a lovely word. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Apr 12 - 11:53 AM Ebbie, I think the issue people have with Kinkade is less the actual "popular" nature of the content than his promotional methods, his production methods, and the marketing of franchises that took advantage of both investors and customers. If you want to look at the imagery and find a comparison, I suppose a fair amount of Robert Frost's poetry treads the same ground that Kinkade's pictures do. It isn't the subject matter, it is the methods and the promotion. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Pete Jennings Date: 13 Apr 12 - 12:18 PM Right again, SRS. There is no exclusivity to art IMO. If you think it's art, then it is. And as Tracy Emin says (I'm gonna get it in the neck for mentioning our Trace!): "It's art because I say it is." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 13 Apr 12 - 12:56 PM Actually the sounds produced by a guitar, fiddle, or banjo aren't music either unless the person playing knows how to play. My problem with Kinkade is with his limited range and abilities combined with the successful zillion-dollar promotion of them on non-artistic grounds. If he'd become popular solely through word of mouth and had been known for comments like, "I'm glad people like my paintings. I just do the best I can," I'd be more sympathetic. But that wasn't what was happening. Kinkade's paintings really do count as art. They're just bad (that means uninteresting) art. Like what you hear when the average twelve-year-old plays the violin and gets almost all the notes right. If you like the performance, it isn't because of the music. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Ebbie Date: 13 Apr 12 - 02:09 PM "Actually the sounds produced by a guitar, fiddle, or banjo aren't music either unless the person playing knows how to play." That is probably not literally true, Guest/Lighter. Within a single note lies a harmony that may not be audible or physically present but in my opinion we react and respond to it as though we hear it. Take a pure soprano voice singing a solo air slowly and with emotion. Even though soprano is not my favorite pitch I don't for a moment doubt that our ears/spirits/emotions are filling it in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 13 Apr 12 - 02:41 PM If it's just a single note that gives the effect, I'd just call it a "pure note." If a pure note is a thing of beauty, then the point of music is to make sure the beauty remains when the note is placed with other notes. The more notes, the more practice it takes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: kendall Date: 13 Apr 12 - 07:27 PM Opinions are like assholes; we all have one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Rapparee Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:28 PM I've named mine "Timmy" for no particular reason. What's yours called? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 13 Apr 12 - 08:32 PM Your opinion or your asshole, Rap??? B:~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Elmore Date: 14 Apr 12 - 11:16 AM One thing Kinkade did as well (or as badly) as many great artists was drink. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST Date: 28 May 12 - 11:19 AM ////It is kind of like saying/believing that the sound one gets from a guitar, fiddle or banjo is not actually music at all.///// Meaningless statement. I could kick a guitar and it makes a sound but it isn't music. It's music if it's being played by a musician. Kinkade was like a lounge pianist who knew a slew of old standards but they were all of the same genre and all in the same key. It gets old after the third song. and when you meet someone who has faithfully bought every CD and works as a rep selling more copies of his CDs to other people, would you not find that ridiculous and disingenuous? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: GUEST,josepp Date: 28 May 12 - 11:22 AM Come to think of it--Kinkade was to art what Kenny G is to jazz. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 May 12 - 11:42 AM Point taken! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Charley Noble Date: 28 May 12 - 01:23 PM Sentimental claptrap, in my opinion. If you like it, know that you are endangering your health. Your teeth may fall out and you may well go blind. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: CupOfTea Date: 29 May 12 - 02:49 PM Yanno, that "what is art?" question is about as dicey a proposition as asking "what is folk music?" I'm in the category of overeducated artists (BS art ed, MFA textiles) who find Kinkade's paintings crap in pretty colors. Having the education background, and a curiosity about why one thing sells and another doesn't made me curious. I also married a man whose father is a well regarded regional painter with the same sort of marketing niche and bent as Kinkade (though his numbered prints actually WERE limited editions). The thing I really despised about my father in law's work was he WAS a genuinely good fine arts artist, both painting and photography. He did a whole book of amazing watercolors of scenes from when he was stationed in the Pacific in WW, published by the military. Most of his career as an artist WAS as a greeting card painter. He excelled at that catering to emotion and factory production headspace. In later life, he started to travel. A wonderful photographer, he'd take lots of pictures, sketch views on his trip, then use the photos to do finished watercolors on his in-situ drawings. They were WONDERFUL. So wonderful, they all sold in a show. Money rolled in and next thing, they became part and parcel of the "I can do this to make money" attitude. The paintings from the subsequent trips had no fraction of the soul of that first batch. Artist's intent is critical to what the work becomes. In talking this over with my generation of in-laws, I was steered to a (fairly obscure, highly academic) study of economics and artists. In examining the economic issues, all the variables came down to two paths for a successful artist to take - Fine Art or Commercial Art. The methods of working are different for the two paths - and the qualities and INTENT of the artwork are different. My father in law and Kinakde took the Commercial path to monetary success. In doing so, they took themselves out of the running for Fine Art. What the art can BE is different for the two paths. The thing that rankles many who have taken the time to be educated about art is not sour grapes because folks like Kinkade make piles of money, or that his work doesn't speak to us on any deep level, but the thinking that popularity=quality. McDonald's sells millions of hamburgers, but that doesn't make them a great example of good food. Kinkaid, as well as some folks working in the Fine Arts realm, have me snorting and eye-rolling at how they are MUCH better at PR & self promotion than at actually creating art (some musicians are like this too, now that I think on it). To me, Kinkaid's popularity is evidence of the the lack of art education in schools coming home to roost. Never developing any critical criterion in assessing visual works means that many people will NOT be able to distinguish between Fine & Commercial Art. Kinkaid was a very successful COMMERCIAL artist. Just don't expect Fine Artists to accept him as a peer - it's apples and oranges, really. Joanne in Cleveland |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Bobert Date: 29 May 12 - 04:45 PM Joanne's post reminded me of a story I heard when I was in art school by one of my teachers... The story is about Robert Raushenburg at an auction where one of his previously sold paintings brought a large sum and Robert, quite upset, went up to buyer afterwards and said, "If you are going to spend that kind of money for one of my paintings then buy one directly from me"... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: Charley Noble Date: 29 May 12 - 08:01 PM Joanne- Well said. Starving doesn't necessarily make one a better artist. But great artists generally have ignored the commercial art path. My grandfather once considered going back to commercial lithography when things looked dire but my grandmother convinced him that they could somehow make do with the little money they were earning and continue to focus on their creative art. Their artwork now sells for ten or twenty times what Kinkade would have been paid for anything he painted. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obit: Thomas Kinkade - mass market 'artist' From: EBarnacle Date: 30 May 12 - 01:18 AM I cannot vote for the worth of Kinkade's "art" but he certainly made it on volume. |
