BS: Police Brutality

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 May 12 - 07:20 AM

"Backwoodsman. I did not say that all police officers behave like Sergeant Harvey. I said there are a lot more like him in the police force. That is not stereotyping."

Yes it is. From a short, one-sided video clip, you formed an opinion of an individual and assumed that the video represented his habitual behaviour, and you said that "there are a lot more like him in the police force". That is stereotyping. You have absolutely no idea of Sgt. Harvey's habitual behaviour patterns but, having made an assumption, you have then imposed those assumed behaviour patterns on an unspecified group of other officers. That is stereotyping.

If you don't understand the meaning of the word, there's little wonder you don't know when you're doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:32 PM

Call me Sherlock! Elementary Little Hawk, old fellow! they'd be pretty bloody busy if they followed up each insignificant bust for grass with raids from the heavy mob.

I suppose its just possible his son REALLY pissed off the Chief Constable, or someone REALLY important.

Otherwise - well it strains credulity somewhat. Particularly from an anonymous source. Or maybe you just believe everything that fits in with your point of view. I do, sometimes. I think we all do.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:21 PM

OH! What a brilliant piece of deductive reasoning there, Big Al! Or were you just trying to be funny?

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:09 PM

Dear Concerned

Either your son is a target criminal, or he is an international terrorist.

(get some weird guests here, don't we?)

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 12 - 05:09 PM

don't suppose Richard meant anything Don. My family were from Ireland as well, but I don't think English people relate to ireland or irish politics at all.

A pint of guinness and a couple of wack fol me daddy-ohs, and they all think Gerry Adams is their best mate, and they're ready to march on the GPO.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 22 May 12 - 12:47 PM

I have only had one close dealing with the Police, my son was arrested late at night, early the following morning two officers came to my door with one of their big red keys, fortunately I managed to answer the door before they caved it in. They came into my house with a search warrant, they were extremely abrupt with both myself and my wife, one in particular was rude to the point where I was tempted to thump him (I am not normally a violent man). I asked if they could just hold off for a few minutes while I made arrangements for my eighty six (86)year old Mother to be "fostered" out to a friend for a time, again they were extremely aggressive not allowing me to go into the room with the phone in. Eventually I managed to make arrangements for my Mother, the two Police Officers were joined by another 6 officers who searched the house, jumped to several conclusions and eventually arrested by my wife and I. We spent the remainder of the day in the cells. Eventually we were released, without charge, without apology. Needless to say I was not and remain unendeared to the Police officers in this instance, my son was later released, again without charge (his crime, a small amount of cannibis). I should point out that my wife and I are in our 50's, neither of us has ever been in any trouble with the Police, except in my wife's case a speeding ticket. Their behaviour was to my mind totally unacceptable, I realise we may have been visited by bad apples but they left a very bad taste and my respect for the Police has evaporated entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 22 May 12 - 11:40 AM

Backwoodsman. I did not say that all police officers behave like Sergeant Harvey. I said there are a lot more like him in the police force. That is not stereotyping.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 May 12 - 10:08 AM

"I am therefore not prepared to countenance the idea that all police officers should be tainted by the Sergeant Harveys of this world."

That's precisely what you did - "I don't think this was an isolated incident. I think that Sergeant Harvey, and a lot more of his ilk, regularly use such techniques because they are too lazy or too callous or too stupid to adhere to properly laid down procedures."

My underlining, but your words. Blatant stereotyping, and seemingly acceptable in your view, yet you (apparently) give people who stereotype muslims and black people a 'flea in their ears'.

If what you really meant was, "I think that Sergeant Harvey may have used such techniques on other occasions, and it may be that there are others who do likewise", I'd probably have to agree, but I also believe that we need to see much more than the short, one-sided clip of one incident to make the kind of blanket judgment that you've made.

And with regard to the issue of the offender 'howling in agony', most people are capable of 'howling in agony' to order - I certainly could if necessary - and without any actual pain being felt whatsoever. It's called 'taking the piss'.

I have a couple of close relatives who are police officers - one here, one in Canada - and they could regale you for hours with anecdotes about the unbelievable and outrageous behaviour towards the police of individuals and groups they come across in the course of their work. Many of them make the incident in question seem very insignificant indeed, and it seems that the most important requisite for a police officer is to have the patience of a saint.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 22 May 12 - 09:30 AM

bACKWOODSMAN. Richard Bridge and I are not the same person. He has his opinions and I have mine. That they frequently coincide is possibly coincidence, or it might be that we share a similar ideology. It could even be that sometimes we are both right.

Whatever, there has been absolutely no typecasting on my part in any of the postings I have made to this thread. Indeed, I have specifically stated that I do not subscribe to the "all coppers are bastards" theory. Nor do I regard the police as all being tarred with the same brush.

I object strongly to the typecasting of all Muslims by the actions of a few terrorists or paedophiles; I reject utterly the view that anyone to the right of Ghengis Khan is beyond redemption; and the last person who tried to tell me that all black people are lazy, stupid and dishonest - He knew. He'd met one - was left with a flea in his ear the size of bactrian camel. I am therefore not prepared to countenance the idea that all police officers should be tainted by the Sergeant Harveys of this world.

However, someone remarked early on in this thread that every barrel is bound to have a few rotten apples in it (or words to that effect). The thing I'm pondering is this. If we bust the barrel wide open, how many rotten apples would we find.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 May 12 - 08:39 AM

Woodson - "Do you know what I don't think? I don't think this was an isolated incident. I think that Sergeant Harvey, and a lot more of his ilk, regularly use such techniques because they are too lazy or too callous or too stupid to adhere to properly laid down procedures."

Bridge - "It's typecasting people because they look the same. If I don't need to typecast one Irishman as like another - why should it be right for the policemen to typecast one person with a given characteristic as like another?"

So typecasting Irishmen et al "because they look the same" is wrong, but typecasting police officers - who look even more the same by virtue of their wearing a uniform - is OK? Sounds like double-standards to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 12 - 07:21 AM

Have any of you good people ever watched programmes like "Brit Cops" and it's ilk. I have to confess to being astounded at times by the actions of the police who know they are being filmed. I understand that the Police have, at times, a very difficult job to do, that they have, at times, to deal with very difficult and sometimes dangerous people and situations. However I am often appalled at the behaviour of the Police in these programmes. As for the instance which started this thread would it have been possible to place the man in a cell and left him there until he wanted to co-operate, don't know myself only asking.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 May 12 - 05:01 AM

""Er - Al - I didn't say that.""

No, you didn't.

You contented yourself with casting a completely unwarranted slur on my parentage instead.

Al, you have it wrong! Far from a good egg, he is much of a kind with your nemesis, but of course he tends to use his malicious streak on those who hold different political opinions.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 May 12 - 04:55 AM

""If I don't need to typecast one Irishman as like another - why should it be right for the policemen to typecast one person with a given characteristic as like another?

You're in a cleft stick Don.""

And you are chopping logic in a feeble attempt to avoid admitting that a cop must, as a matter of self preservation, treat every human being who confronts him as a potential threat to life and limb.

His experience instils in him that tendency because he has indeed met someone like that person, who WAS a threat.

If you are unable to comprehend that an apparently harmless person of any ethnicity, sexuality, colour, or faith can, in an instant become a killer, then I would suggest you need a police escort when you attend court.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 12 - 04:39 AM

of course you didn't Richard . You are a good egg. Like all nice people (such as myself) you are politically slightly to the left of Pol Pot.

however this Woodson man! quelle horreur! he reminds me of the OFSET inspector who drove my boss to lose the sight of one of his eyes, by raising his blood pressure with a bloody schools inspection.

What gives the right of these people to go round terrorising everyone doing some sort of a job. if you've worked as a solicitor, you must know the pressure in these sorts of situations.

I'm not unsympathetic - got angina myself. But prosecuting the cops - that is massive overreaction - the guy was almost certainly pissing them about - the onset of angina doesn't generally coincide the cops asking your address. If only life were that simple. I'd have faked a heart attack before my A levels.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 12 - 04:09 AM

Er - Al - I didn't say that.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 12 - 02:06 AM

'Do you know what I don't think? I don't think this was an isolated incident. I think that Sergeant Harvey, and a lot more of his ilk, regularly use such techniques because they are too lazy or too callous or too stupid to adhere to properly laid down procedures. The only difference here is that Sergeant Harvey ended up with his extremely unpleasant visage slapped across every regional and local newspaper in the north-east.'

come on Richard, who's doing the typecasting here? Already, I've had to listen to vilest suggestion about my father - whom this geezer Owen never met.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 12 - 02:02 AM

"someone like you that was a threat"

That's not the same as "anyone is a threat".

It's typecasting people because they look the same.

If I don't need to typecast one Irishman as like another - why should it be right for the policemen to typecast one person with a given characteristic as like another?

You're in a cleft stick Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 12 - 07:48 PM

Well its not just cops, is it? Lets face its open season on any poor sod who has one of the people jobs - teachers, nurses - they're all supposed to assert their authoity by the magic of their personality. And theres always some dimwit doogooder....organising the opposition and cheering it on.

Don't need to look at what the those robed in justice have come up with.

I've seen too much of it as a teacher. Seen a guy put on child offenders register because he shouted at a little sod who was setting off a fire extinguisher. The child's representative got him to admit he was trying to intimidate the kid by shouting at him. A career buggered up - for that.

Seen a kid who went in for the foulest language and murderous assaults forgiven - because she had reacted badly to chocolate, which she wasn't used to.

there are warnings on every wall of our local hospital begging people not to assault the nurses - because they might get in trouble. Every nurse you talk to has some experience of it.

What is it about you people that can't realise some respect is due to people who are entrusted with authority.

Every bugger with a talent for abuse gets the thumbs up, whilst everybody trying to assert authority has to have their actions scrutinised by eejits who don't know in which direction farts generally go.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 12 - 06:57 PM

""Don, go back and read. The postulate was not that the police needed to be wary of all. It was that the police are wary of YOU because they met someone like you before. That's not judging you, it's assuming that you are like that other person - be he a Jew, or an Afro-Caribbean, or an Irishman.""

YOU go back and read!!

"ANYBODY" means humanoid, one head, two arms, two legs, capable of speech and (in some cases at least) rational thought.

It is irrespective of size, gender, sexual orientation, skin colour, nationality and disability.

It refers specifically to any human being who may have a knife, a gun, a syringe, or simply saliva loaded with HIV virus.

I'd love to see you out with police at chucking out time with nothing but your common sense and caution for defence.

I worked as a cabbie for over ten years and saw what cops face from drunks and I can tell you that it doesn't matter if they are black or white, scruffy or suited and booted. A cop cannot trust anybody if he wants to stay in one piece.

If you don't understand that you haven't been paying attention.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 12 - 06:31 PM

""Tell me Don, were your family antecedents like that and should I assume that I must not talk to any Irishman or be killed?""

That isn't worthy of a mentally deranged five year old Mr Bridge, and I see no purpose in treating any of your further posts with the least respect.

I was born in England, of Irish antecedents, none of whom, to my knowledge, had anything to do with the IRA, or indeed any sympathy for them. In fact I have been told that my grandfather, who was a ganger on the roads, once kicked an IRA fundraiser two hundred yards down the road. They never called again.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 12 - 06:06 PM

Don, go back and read. The postulate was not that the police needed to be wary of all. It was that the police are wary of YOU because they met someone like you before. That's not judging you, it's assuming that you are like that other person - be he a Jew, or an Afro-Caribbean, or an Irishman.

Al, watch the video and hunt down some reports of the trial.

Both of you, go to a gathering where there are police at play - it's horrifying.

Incidentally, I once was invited to an Irish republican concert - and warned in advance to stand for the IRA anthem (the name of which escapes me) and not to be heard talking in RP or I would not get out alive. I heard the signer's husband say (to my very party, at my very table) "She was singing flat tonight. I'll take her home and give her a good beating and it won't happen again". Tell me Don, were your family antecedents like that and should I assume that I must not talk to any Irishman or be killed?

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 12 - 02:53 PM

Well if they are your thoughts on the matter Owen. I suppose we must respect them - give them the same deference - that you give to our thoughts on the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 21 May 12 - 02:19 PM

Don. The reason for the armlock is blatantly obvious from the video. The prisoner claimed he was ill and needed a chair and wouldn't supply his personal details until he got a chair. The desk sergeant refused to give him one until he'd noted the prisoner's personal details.

Stalemate.

How does Sergeant Harvey resolve this difficult situation? Simple. He gets up from his own seat, where I'm sure he is very comfortable, wrenches the guy's arm up his back so hard that the victim howls in agony, receives an assurance of co-operation and then sits down and resumes the task of form completeion as though nothing had happened.

Sergeant Harvey's action was not a necessary strategy to control a difficult prisoner. It was brutal cold blooded torture and the magistrates bench, who were doubtless thoroughly apprised of all that had led up to this incident, found Sergeant Harvey and his civilian assistant guilty of the same.

Do you know what I don't think? I don't think this was an isolated incident. I think that Sergeant Harvey, and a lot more of his ilk, regularly use such techniques because they are too lazy or too callous or too stupid to adhere to properly laid down procedures. The only difference here is that Sergeant Harvey ended up with his extremely unpleasant visage slapped across every regional and local newspaper in the north-east.

All because he couldn't be bothered to give an ailing suspect a chair.

Dixon of Dock Green must be spinning in his grave.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 12 - 01:48 PM

There is a very simple straightforward way to avoid being manhandled by police.

COOPERATE!

Police will hold a suspect's arms to prevent him reaching into pocket or waistband, and also prevent him breaking away from control. That might be a reason for the arm hold in the video for all any of us (not having seen what led up to that moment) know to the contrary.

It might also be a couple of right bastards treating a prisoner abominably, which would have been less likely if he had been cooperating.

It might also be a prisoner simulating an angina attack (and please don't tell me you've never heard of that happening) to make it more difficult for police to process him.

Isn't it strange that some of the same people who were banging on about the evils of making assumptions in the George Zimmerman case are now so ready to jump in and do the same where cops are in the firing line?

Bottom line?.......None of us knows the full story!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 May 12 - 12:38 PM

Stringsinger seems to have an "out-of-control" prejudice against those who defend against the mindless and criminal in society.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 May 12 - 12:15 PM

New York cops have had Israeli training in crowd control techniques except it is the cops, themselves that are out of control all over the country.

Paranoia runs rampant, today.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 May 12 - 11:42 AM

The cops are out of control.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 May 12 - 11:14 AM

Hey, in the 30's in Berlin, the storm troopers were just doing their jobs. If they would have just separated the bad apples from the rest, things would be different.

You believe that and I have a bridge for sale.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 12 - 09:58 AM

""And as for "If a cop talks to you as though you might be a threat - it's probably 'cos he's met someone like you that was a threat" - a pretty classic definition of prejudice.""

As a lawyer, whose stock in trade is, or should be the correct use of words, you really need to check up and learn the difference between "CAUTION" (for self preservation) and "PREJUDICE".

An unarmed police officer who wishes to live out his natural lifespan had damn well better treat everybody as a potential threat.

That is "EVERYBODY" Richard, so perhaps you would like to explain where exactly that is prejudice?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 12 - 09:07 AM

Ah - some people don't deserve justice, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 12 - 08:16 AM

no idea, but I've seen him walk into a situation where two drunks were knocking seven shades of shit out of each other in broad daylight in the town centre - surrounded by a a crowd of jeering idiots - and the whole lot just went quiet, when he arrived on the scene, and it was the end of the fight. I heard whispers in the crowd - Its Eric Whittle.

I daresay it wouldn't have commanded your respect Owen , but the town was grateful to him that day - people with kids who didn't want them witnessing that sort of stuff.

I don't suppose he commanded that sort of respect from those sort of people for his enlightened views on the human rights of public nuisances.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 21 May 12 - 07:46 AM

I'm sorry Al, I asked a serious question. You seem very interested in defending police brutality and you say that your father spent 25 years in the force. I am therefore obliged to wonder if your father ever behaved in a similar manner to Sergeant Harvey.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 12 - 07:41 AM

yes I can see that you're not a smart arse,Owen

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 21 May 12 - 07:19 AM

Al, if you're going to participate in this thread please don't trivialise it by making smart arsed remarks. Precisely where did I or anybody else speculate on his character or state of mind, or what his solicitor might or might not have said?

These things are totally irrelevant to the matter under discussion; namely that David Healer was illegally tortured at the poice station while his personal details were being noted.

Perhaps your father treated suspects in the same way? If so then I suggest he was not fit to be a member of the police force.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 12 - 06:57 AM

obviously he was of previous good character and in a depressed state about something......

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 21 May 12 - 06:27 AM

Al Whittle. "The cops involved would have arrested him, spoke with him, asked him to go home and stop being a public nuisance or danger, atempted to reason with him - all before that incident you see."

That's pretty perspicacious isn't it? We don't even know what the man was arrested for, or what his behaviour was like before he entered the station. AAMOF it looked to me as though he'd been arrested on suspicion of handling drugs or stolen goods or something similar. (Note the blue plastic bags which the sergeant's oppo was counting before he assisted the said Sergeant in his relentless search for the truth.)

However:-

I have googled the name of David Healer several times and the only results I have been able to come up with relate to the trial of Sergeant Harvey and his oppo. Ipso facto, either:-

the case never got to court or,

the offence which Mr Healer was charged with was so trivial, even the neighbourhood press didn't consider it worth reporting.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 21 May 12 - 05:57 AM

Richard, you could sing that if you had an air to it. I'm not saying police work isn't shitty. I'm not saying that there aren't occasions when they lay their lives on their line. And I certainly don't subscribe to the notion that all coppers are bastards. And just now and again I get the feeling that that the law is the only thing which stands between us and barbarism.

That, by the way, comes from someone who has faced the law on more pickets, marches, demonstrations and protests than anyone could reasonably shake a stick at.

But nothing, nothing, justifies wrenching the arm of an unco-operative suspect in the way that Sergeant Harvey did; and one who was suffering from angina at that.

This is not Nazi Germany. It is not Stalinist Russia. And it is not Saddam Hussein's Iraq. In case the Big Als and Don Ts of this world have forgotten, Britain is a democracy, where the rights of the individual have been established in law over many centuries. That includes the right of suspects to be questioned without being tortured.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 12 - 05:41 AM

The usual line of defence is that despite seven other convictions that year, he's 'of previous good character' but is 'in a depressed state' due to his budgerigar dying five years ago.

You're a lawyer - perhaps you've tried that line yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 12 - 05:35 AM

Enjoyment doesn't come into it Richard. One of the best films about being a lawman Kevin Costner's Wyatt earp. You have to be a deliberate man or woman. people have to sense that. Otherwise someone will try to take over the situation - and by losing control of the situation, you can put your own and other peoples lives at risk.

Your man in the police station is a good case in point. The cops involved would have arrested him, spoke with him, asked him to go home and stop being a public nuisance or danger, atempted to reason with him - all before that incident you see. Mostly out of self interest - an actual aarest involves buggering about with forms and writing statements - and court appearances, with some smart arse and usually sober solicitor trying to discredit your words. they would have a good appreciation of the situation - better that Owen's - believe you me.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 12 - 03:59 AM

The police job can be demanding. Lower ranks are not that well paid. They take risks with their lives sometimes.

None of that justifies brutality to those in their custody.

And as for "If a cop talks to you as though you might be a threat - it's probably 'cos he's met someone like you that was a threat" - a pretty classic definition of prejudice.

Also, nothing in it alters my perception that most of those going into police work enjoy wielding authority, they like the feeling of power that it gives them. A niece of mine recently married a policeman and the police at the wedding seemed very "tough bloke" in ethos. That includes the policewomen there too!

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 12 - 09:41 PM

I would like to add that, as far I can make out - Don is a bit of a right wing git.

However we seem to have arrived at something we can agree with.

namely that cops have a shitty job. Most of 'em come from the lower classes. probably , they're on our side, Miners strikes excluded.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 12 - 08:15 PM

My father was a cop for twenty five years - we lived in a police house, with the door painted blue. the other policemen were in and out of the house.   the talk was generally of police work.

I got used to other people being snotty and ill informed about my father's work. Also I got used to the need to insult and trivial bollocks being the substance of most complaints.

My house was burgled twice and I received on both occasions, good treatment from the police who dealt with me - and caught the perpetrators on both occasions.

I wasn't aware I had insulted you - unless you are a tax inspector specialising in tormenting the poor, an artist working in the medium of dogshit, or an expert on education who has never worked in a classroom. If you are, I suppose you are to be congratulated at finding an easier way of earning a living than working as a policeman.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 May 12 - 08:10 PM

With reference to Al's last comment:- ""If a cop talks to you as though   you might be a threat - its probably cos he's met someone like you that was a threat."".

If you doubt the veracity of that statement, you should really have a chat with my cousin Phil, and have a good look at the eighteen inch scar across his torso, put there by the five foot two inch girlfriend of a man he was arresting for assaulting her.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 May 12 - 08:03 PM

Can't speak for Al, but in my case, as much experience as you can get from having three cousins in completely separate forces (Lincoln, Norfolk and South Yorkshire), plus five friends, two in the MET and three in Middlesex, Surrey and Kent County forces.

Your experience??...........One video?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 20 May 12 - 04:34 PM

I've been away for the past few days and have only just seen this last pair of postings.

The tone, Al Whittle's in particular is extremely offensive. If he can't get by without using terms like wanker and negative ballocks then I seriously suggest he should pack it in.

BTW., Al Whittle, Don T. and one or two others. How much experience do you have of police operating procedures?

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 12 - 07:58 PM

Well actually if he has anything to contribute, he should tell the police before the next incident.

The thing is - its all negative bollocks. he's pissed off that people didn't get dismissed from their jobs for doing the best they could in difficult circumstances. A tough shitty job most of us wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Theres so many avenues for complete wankers in our society. Artist who present us with piles of dogshit; educational philosophers who've never worked in a classroom; tax inspectors who only inspect the tax returns of the very poor.

The policing of the drunken and the bad is a field of endeavour where talking shit counts for very little . Such people have to be faced down and controlled. If a cop talks to you as though   you might be a threat - its probably cos he's met someone like you that was a threat.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 May 12 - 06:53 PM

""So Owen, you're clearly an expert in un-armed combat - how, precisely, would an un-armed policeman "take down" (whatever the fuck that means) a mentally-unstable and out-of-control man who is wielding a sword, without himself becoming a casualty or, worse, a murder statistic? ""

I think Owen should offer to show the police force exactly how he handles such situations next time a loony starts waving a machete about.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: gnu
Date: 18 May 12 - 07:06 PM

Indeed, Q. Opportunists who know the police are stretched thin and therefore take a chance. As you said, sad but true.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 12 - 01:45 PM

The G 8 conference is being held at Camp David, where it will be free of the kooks, anarchists and hoodlums who blanket the police with derogatory labels (see Megan, far above),

Some police are being subject to investigation for their actions in Toronto at the G20, but the TV news showed ample evidence of hoodlums smashing windows, trashing cars and running wild.
Obviously some misguided demonstrators, but who were otherwise free of destructive actions, will be rounded up with the criminally active. Unfortunate, but unavoidable.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 May 12 - 08:25 AM

Or Blair Peach
Jim Carroll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blair_Peach