BS: Honest Talk About Sex.

Subject: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: saulgoldie
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 09:51 AM

My guess is that if you don't use the words, the concept doesn't exist, right?


Vagina


Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:21 AM

Yup...

We no longer do science...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:32 AM

I trust she'll take that to court and she'll win. Out of curiosity, and since I don't want to be banned from posting by using the V word, which stupid cunt initiated that action?

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:35 AM

Won't win with the current batch of clown judges, brucie... They don't do "law" anymore... They only rubber stamp the right wing wackos...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Tunesmith
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:11 AM

In Britain - or at least England - I believe that's it's against the law to engage he sexual activity if one is under 16 years of age.
This interests me because to break a law, one must be made aware of that law.
Now, are school kids - at school - told about this?
It's routine for kids to be told not to hit other children, or steal, or bully etc.
But are kids told that it's wrong - i.e. against the law - to indulged in under 16 sex?

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:15 AM

I'm sure that not one child in the UK knows about that law before the teacher tells them.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:44 AM

UNREAL!

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:51 AM

The minimum age of culpability is lower than the age of consent, as you might expect. In many cases that is appropriate, the alternatives being either lowering consent to culpability or culpability up to consent. Either way is a recipe for either lawless untouchable 15 year olds or a new meaning to the word Lolita.

If teachers teach them, they run the risk of disapproving parents and meddlesome priests. If they don't, UK teenage pregnancy statistics continue to shame us.

The only thing we can say is that curiosity about sex is hard wired into us, so doing nothing is not an option.

Regarding use of the word vagina in debate; How did you guys ever claim to run the world's affairs for most of the 20th century?

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:58 AM

Bill Clinton wouldn't have banned her. He'd have given her a cigar!
¦¬]

Havana Vagina, what's the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:03 PM

Apparently in Michigan it is OK to use the word "vagina" in debate. But this woman's phrasing was a little more lewd and personal than a clinical use of the word.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:09 PM

You must remember that she was censured by Republicans... who now include the most conservative, uptight, controlling and generally reactionary folks in the country.

Shades of Victorianism and Anthony Comstock!

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:10 PM

As to teaching the children what it is they are restricted from, I'm reminded of The Mikado (were I not to Ko-Ko plighted)

"This, Ah, this., This is what I'll never do."

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:16 PM

Don't matter much how she phrased it if the objection was to the word itself.

Given that all the world's male politicians came out of one, and according to what we hear on the news, most of them spend a large proportion of their time trying to get back into a number of them, you would think they would want to know what to call them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:25 PM

Many years back a teacher informed me that my daughter had referred to what the teacher was calling 'private area' as vulva/vagina. I assured the teacher that it wouldn't happen again. I told her I'd teach my daughter all the words I knew for them. The teacher went pale and that was the end of that. Tough times for a kid in Grade 1 or 2.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 12:29 PM

Shades of Taliban, too, Bill..

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 01:13 PM

OK, everyone, back to the dark ages!

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 01:14 PM

I'm reminded of that old question "Why are there so many more horses asses than horses?"

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Megan L
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 01:25 PM

My youngest niece is a nurse when her daughter was at nursery school the little boys (as they will do) discovered the word willy and were driving the teacher crazy since they were out on a trip into town. My niece happened to be nearby when the teacher said very sternly "There will be no more talk of willies I will not have it." to which a little but very clear voice piped up"Please miss can we call it a penis."

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 01:41 PM

Don... "Given that all the world's male politicians came out of one..."

I dunno about some of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:01 PM

Gnu, I was going to a say, 'except Republicans' in answer to Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 02:37 PM

My late, very elderly friend made me die when she once mentioned her 'Mary'. It took a few seconds to work out what she meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 03:06 PM

I was only in about the 4th-5th grade when I realized I didn't much like bewildering euphemisms. I had recently moved for about the 5th time in 5 years, and could not understand why the kids in new locations used different words..... and not the same ones my parents used.

Old story about Harry Truman in the White House garden asking for more 'manure' around some plants...

Bess Truman was asked to get the president to say fertilizer instead of manure and she replied, 'You have no idea how long it took me to get him to say manure.'

Those legislators ought to think about it...

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bugsy
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 07:46 PM

It amazes me that in the US they can ban a woman for saying "Vagina" but they think nothing of showing a politician blowing his own brains out on National TV!

"Only in America?"


Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 07:51 PM

I haven't seen, or even heard of the latter.

The former is just stupid, but it's par for the course these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 09:02 PM

Jeri... stop making sense! Yer confusin some of the rabble.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 09:28 PM

If I'm making sense, maybe I'm confused too. ;-)

Bugsy, I'm curious because I really don't know what you're talking about, or who.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bugsy
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 09:31 PM

It was Budd Dwyer, Jeri.

I won't make a "blick" for it but if you Google "us politician shoots himself on national tv" you'll see the link.

But they still fuzz out bum cheeks and the like on "Survivor"


Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 09:37 PM

What next??? They gonna do away with penises??? Hmmmmmm??? No virgins and no penises...

WTF??? Gonna be purdy boring after the wackos take over...

LOL...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 10:21 PM

Hey, let's just do a George Carlin purge and get rid of 'um all???

And right after that we'll do the chastity belts...

No, better than than that... We'll sterilize everyone... Yeah... We'll just sterilize everyone...

(But, Bobert, people still be out screwin'...)

Okay, we'll Bobbit-ize all males at birth... That make you happy???

(How the hypocritical Republicans gonna get into trouble with no dicks???)

They will figure it out... They are good at that...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:53 PM

Bobster, they will talk their way out of it. They are cunning linguists.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 01:11 AM

Don T: "Don't matter much how she phrased it if the objection was to the word itself.

Given that all the world's male politicians came out of one, and according to what we hear on the news, most of them spend a large proportion of their time trying to get back into a number of them, you would think they would want to know what to call them."

I don't know if they can spell them or even pronounce it right...they don't have to.....they're all bookmarked for themselves on their laptops!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 01:51 AM

When Republicans want to shut someone up, they're not averse to hitting someone below the belt......

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 04:23 AM

(How the hypocritical Republicans gonna get into trouble with no dicks???)

But Bobert, haven't you figured out that modern Republicans don't have sex (at least at home?) and don't care about doing it.

They're only concerned about what everybody else, or anybody else might be doing, and want to make sure everyone else stops doing it.

(Besides, if people are allowed to talk about it, someone might tell their spouses.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 04:26 AM

Most politicians talk like one.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: GUEST,keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 04:30 AM

In Britain - or at least England - I believe that's it's against the law to engage he sexual activity if one is under 16 years of age.

No child has ever been prosecuted.
The law is to protect the child and punish abusers.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 04:35 AM

Given that all the world's male politicians came out of one,
Has no male politician been born by Caesarean section (Caesar excepted of course)
:)

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 04:47 AM

Offences are in many cases committed under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 if a person does at an age below 18 does an act which would be criminal if done by a person over 18 (but the penalties are different) see

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/13


Just in case anyone wanted to know rathern than pontificate blindly.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:11 AM

Not pontificating blindly Richard.
I just wanted to dispel the impression given that 2 teenagers in a consensual relationship risked prosecution in Britain.
They do not.
There have been cases of abusive behaviour by a young teen against a much younger child which have led to criminal cases.

Is it OK to say that without being a lawyer?
Is that pontificating blindly?

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:16 AM

Describing someone as Far Right just because they sometimes disagree with you or Jim Carroll (see "why" thread) is a real example of pontificating blindly.
Perhaps you would return to that thread and address it.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: gnomad
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:46 AM

"...to break a law, one must be made aware of that law" (well upthread)

Care to comment on that one anybody? (preferably someone who knows, rather than one who, like me, thinks they know).

As I understand it, ignorance of the law is no defence, though it might be cited in mitigation, and it would be damnably hard to prove even if it were a defence.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 08:23 AM

You are right gnomad it is not a defence.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 08:24 AM

Keith - go and look up the section. It specifically confirms the existence of the offence(s) for which you say there is no risk of being prosecuted.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 08:42 AM

I am sure it does, but have any teenagers in a consensual relationship ever been prosecuted.
If not, go and look up my post and you will find it is accurate.

Now, please correct your character assassination of me on the "Why" thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Tunesmith
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 09:58 AM

Regarding knowledge of the law.
Again, children have it drilled in to them at school that stealing, bullying, hitting people is wrong/unlawful, but - even in sex education classes ( which I don't think are complusory) - are children told that they are breaking the law having underage sex?
BTW, I heard of a case recently were a 13 year old lad has been put on some sort of sex register for showing his willy to his 9 year girl cousin!

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 02:52 PM

"...if you Google "us politician shoots himself on national tv" Bugsy

I doubt VERY much that the suicide was shown on *national* television, Bugsy. The incident is available for viewing because - and ONLY because - it happened during a televised press conference in Pennsylvania. NOT on national television.

You might like to set the record straight.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:18 PM

So there you go Keith. You could have checked yourself but chose not to.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:43 PM

Odd that in this entire thread nobody has bothered to post the full statement Lisa Brown made. Some folks seem to be laboring under the impression that, because "vagina" is a clinical term, it was uttered in the context of a clinical statement and the "offended" legislators were reacting only to that one word. Not so.

Here is what Ms Brown said:

"Finally, Mr. Speaker, I'm flattered that you're all so interested in my vagina, but 'no' means 'no.'"

To me, that statement is snide, smarmy, insultive, combative, and has no more business being uttered in a legislative body than any other snide, smarmy, insultive, and combative statement. The fact that the word "vagina" was used in it is far from the whole picture. The woman was being a smart-ass. If she had expressed her opinion in a more moderate tone, it probably wouldn't have mattered to anyone whether or not she used the word "vagina".

If a legislator were to tell a colleague to "copulate with a rolling doughnut", should he be excused on grounds that "copulate" is a nice scientific term? No, because the intent is obviously to deliver an insult, and I don't see a lot of difference in intent between that statement and what Ms Brown said.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:48 PM

The whole article is here:

A US lawmaker who says she was barred from speaking in the Michigan House because Republicans objected to her saying the word "vagina" during debate over anti-abortion legislation performed The Vagina Monologues on the Statehouse steps — with a hand from the author.

Eve Ensler, whose groundbreaking play about women's sexuality still packs theaters 16 years after it debuted, oversaw Monday night's performance by Democratic state Rep. Lisa Brown, 10 other lawmakers and several actresses.

Capitol facilities director Steve Benkovsky estimated about 2,500 spectators — women and men — watched the play in downtown Lansing from lawn chairs and blankets. Billed on Facebook as the "Vaginas Take Back the Capitol!" event, the combination play and protest included political signs and chants of "Vagina! Vagina!"

What baffles me is how anyone can tell another elected official they aren't allowed to speak. It doesn't seem legal to me. It seems like it would be an easy step to "you used the word 'rights' and I find that offensive, so you are in a 'time out'."

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 05:50 PM

Ignorance of the law is no excuse... OVER the age of majority. Does that make difference to the debate?

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bugsy
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 07:57 PM

Apologies Ebbie, It was not "National TV" but Several TV Stations across Pennsilvania (click link to Wikipedia and see "Aftermath) who taped the incident and aired it on their midday news.

I don't know which is worse, live telecast or taping and broadcasting later.

CHeers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 08:25 PM

Here's the deal...

The fact the Ms. Brown said "my vagina" isn't an issue... She represents women and her 1st person reference doesn't mean that she was talking about "her" vagina but vaginas in general...

No matter...

It is fucked up (no pun intended or inferred)...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 01:49 AM

Beedub....

You see no difference between telling someone to have sex with a rolling doughnut, and a smart witty riposte.

I cannot help but think you are somewhat partisan.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 02:45 AM

Richard.
So there you go Keith. You could have checked yourself but chose not to.

I did not need to.
If two young teens in a consensual relationship had ever been prosecuted for it, I knew that I would have remembered.
And I was right.
No such have ever been prosecuted have they Richard?

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 03:34 AM

Richard.
Independent Jan 1998.
Sean, 12 last month, was allowed to miss school to be at the bedside of his 16-year-old girlfriend, Emma Webster, her parents, Ray and Shirley, and Sean's mother, Theresa. The pair, who are neighbours at Sharnbrook, Bedfordshire, were 11 and 15 when Emma became pregnant.

Any prosecutions?

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 03:36 AM

LUCY HAGAN

Last Updated: 12 Jan 2011
BOY dad Alfie Patten yesterday admitted he does not know how much nappies cost — but said: "I think it's a lot."
Baby-faced Alfie, who is 13 but looks more like eight, became a father four days ago when his girlfriend Chantelle Steadman gave birth to 7lb 3oz Maisie Roxanne.

He told how he and Chantelle, 15, decided against an abortion after discovering she was pregnant.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 04:45 AM

Bobert:
It is fucked up (no pun intended or inferred)...
How can you know what inferences we may take from your comment?
I think your making the common error of confusing 'infer' with 'imply'.

(as we seem to be discussing the use of 'bad' language)

Cheers (no offence intended!)
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jun 12 - 06:20 AM

Nigel can you explain how one would infer a fuck without implying it?

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 05:15 AM

BAW:
Nigel can you explain how one would infer a fuck without implying it?
The implication in a statement is something which the speaker/writer has put there with the intention it will be understood.
The inference in a statement is something read into it by the hearer/reader, which may, or may not, have been the intention of the speaker/writer.

Subject: RE: BS: Honest Talk About Sex.
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 11:45 PM

In other words, you imply, I infer. I imply, you infer.