BS: Where now Thatcher haters?

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Elmore
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 03:50 PM

If you need someone to hate, try Paul Ryan. He makes it easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 12:08 PM

Chongo says that if you had to deal with his downstairs neighbour, Mrs McGillicuddy, you wouldn't have enough time left in the day to hate Margaret Thatcher.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 01:37 PM

Oh, I'm still around.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 01:41 PM

"Paranoid. That was the word I was searching for."

That's what the voices said, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 06:03 AM

No Mr 999 troll. Paranoid I said and paranoid I meant. You're thinking of schizophrenia, which Wikipedia defines as "a mental disorder characterized by a breakdown of thought processes and by poor emotional responsiveness". It does, I believe, sometimes manifest itself as a tendency to assume multiple identities and social roles. As such it probably explains that strange characteristic of the Mudcat troll; a tendency to log on as a guest, but using using multiple aliases.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 06:38 AM

when she dies the song I'll be singing is 'Happy days are here again

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: goatfell
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 06:39 AM

sad old woman

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 08:41 AM

I shall lead the mass choirs of everyone who suffered under Thatcher in a rousing chorus of "Ding Dong The Witch is Dead". (From the Wizard of Oz).

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 08:58 AM

"Ding Dong The Witch is Dead".
Understand your sentiments, but much better to keep her memory alive by reminding people what she was, what she did to whom - and who supported her, and still do. Seems to have worked wonders with the shrinking-violet Thatcherites on this thread who have all leapt back into their closets at a rate of knots.
I'm not sure she'll ever die anyway - bloodsuckers like her have a nasty habit of turning up when you least expect them. Pity Bram Stoker isn't alive to do a follow-up to his masterpiece.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 10:23 AM

Jim, Stokers nephew J Sheridan Le Fanu wrote a story about a female vampire called ' Carmilla ' based on the real life Countess Elizabeth Bathory, perhaps someone could adapt it.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Musket
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 11:10 AM

Err... I know! That's it!

She stopped children having free school milk so they would drink each other's blood instead.

Dog eat dog. It's what she meant when she said there is no such thing as society.

Which means there can be no such thing as compassion. Hence the comments on this thread. Hence the delicious irony.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 12:54 PM

DRACUMAG (1985)
Ewan MacColl

Margaret Thatcher's reign can either be dated from 1975 when she was first elected leader of the Tory Party or from 1979 when she became Prime Minister. The latter was heralded as a great achievement: she was the first female leader of Britain. Thatcherism, however, was characterised by aggressive nationalism abroad and divisive economic policies at home. Put crudely, under Thatcher the rich got richer (advantageous tax breaks, privatisation of public utilities and services, etc.) and the poor got poorer (vicious education cuts, benefits kept low or changed or scrapped, continual attacks on trades unions, etc). She favoured authoritarian centralised government, as was witnessed by her abolition of the Greater London Council and other Metropolitan authorities. She also insisted on centralised personal power and was known for consistent marginalisation and callous exploitation of her own cabinet ministers. She was often depicted in the media as a female Dracula.

There's a bloke in Transylvania who's said to have a mania,
He's under the impression he's a bat. (A vampire bat!)
But this feller they call Dracula's not nearly so spectacular
At sucking blood and draining off the fat
As you know who,
You surely do!
She's working up an appetite for you.
She'll make a stew,
A barbecue—
She'll eat you, bones and all, before she's through.

She doesn't think that your old granny should be sitting on her fanny;
Sheltered housing is a luxury, she feels. (A luxury we can't afford.)
It's a drain on our resources and it doesn't help the forces,
For it's missiles that we need not Meals on Wheels.
And you know what?
It's got to stop!
Old people should be taken out and shot.
Shoot the lot, | Stop the rot—
Welfare's just another bolshie plot!

When she rises from her coffin she's surrounded by her boffins,
By her ministers they call "the living dead." (Allgood chaps, really.)
And they sing their merry ditty as they fly above the city,
Yes, and Countess Thatcheratoo's at their head.
So watch your step!
They're very good
At tearing out a throat to drink the blood.
Their appetite
Is very great—
Thev'll eat you in the interests of state.

She is filled with indignation at the thought of education
Being subsidised and bolstered by the rates. (It just isn't fair!)
Nursery schools and swimming classes, leisure-centres for the masses:
Yes, and dustbins emptied free the lady hates.
Do you know why?
Because they're dopes!
(They proved it when they handed me their votes.)
So cap the rates
And cut their throats!
(Time to bring back flogging and the rope.)

When Count Dracula is lurkin' in the shadows he's a-workin'.
One by one his victims fall to tooth and claw.
But the lady's had instruction in the use of mass-production
And she sucks your blood protected by the law. (Splendid law!)
So be alert,
And watch your back!
It's when you least suspect her she'll attack.
Don't let her fit
You with a cap—
Her policies are just a load of crap!

So—when you hear the vampires yappin' with their talk aboutrate-cappin'
Then it's time to load your double-barrelled gun.
When the councils they are sacking and communities are cracking
Then it's time to send them back from where they come.
And drive a dart
Right through the part
Where there would be a heart if she'd a heart.
Now don't delay!
Do it today!
To deal with vampires it's the only way.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 01:37 PM

"No Mr 999 troll."

Owen, I have been using the name 999 for more than a few years now. I was joking. I am sorry you took it personally. However, please take this personally: fuck you!

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 03:45 PM

Hey, let's have some respect here. This is the woman who invented aerated ice-cream. No Thatcher - no Mr Whippy vans, and no '99'. It really is that simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 05:55 PM

GUEST,Blandiver

"Hey, let's have some respect here. This is the woman who invented aerated ice-cream. No Thatcher - no Mr Whippy vans, and no '99'. It really is that simple."

Yep, sums up Tory policies: puffed-up, tasteless crap with no real substance and only made palatable by balancing it out with something else (raspberry sauce or a flake).

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 06:21 PM

Steve Shaw - 11 Aug 12 - 08:53 AM

She bade us rejoice over the outrageous deaths of hundreds of young men on the General Belgrano

Did she now Steve?? Got any references to back that up??

The "Rejoice" bit by the way was for the recapture of South Georgia

Here is what she said about the Belgrano - in the House of Commons 4th May 1982 -

"We all regret the loss of human life in the South Atlantic, but our first duty is to protect, and to minimise the danger to, our own forces in the South Atlantic, who are there because we all agreed that we should send a task force—— Source: Hansard HC [23/14-18]

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 07:24 PM

"One thing we do know is that the decision was not taken by local commanders assessing their situation but by No.10. - Musket

This is a quote taken directly from his book "One Hundred Days", it appears on page 114:

"From CTG [Commander Task Group] 317.8, to "Conqueror", text priority flash - Attack Belgrano Group"

CTG and the author of "One Hundred Days" was Admiral Sandy Woodward - about the most senior local commander you could get down in the South Atlantic at that time. He sent that signal knowing full well it could not be acted upon as the three SSN's the UK had down in the South Atlantic were not part of his formation and were under the operational command of Northwood. But in sending that signal he knew damn well that it would succeed in doing the following:

1: Alert those back home of the severity of the situation

2: Let those back home know exactly what "their man in charge" on the ground wanted doing

The result was that the threat posed by the Belgrano and the Carrier Group to the North of the islands was recognised and Chris Wreford-Brown's Rules Of Engagement WERE changed to allow him to attack the Belgrano Group.

Here is something else Woodward says:

"My own case is simply stated, because it comes from the same folklore as that followed by Admiral Nelson, Admiral Jervis, Admiral Hood, Admiral Jellicoe and Admiral Cunningham. The speed and direction of an enemy ship can be irrelevant, because both can change quickly. What counts is his position, his capability and what I believe to be his intention"

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 07:36 PM

Just as an add-on to my last - Had Woodward actually been given operational command of the SSN's in the South Atlantic his preferred dispositions of the three submarines would have put at least one of the boats operating to the North in contact with the Argentine Carrier Group and both "Belgrano" and the "Vientecinco de Mayo" would have been sunk that day - and guess what?? - He would have been right to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 12 - 07:54 PM

Yep, you got me there. Thanks for the correction.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Bugsy
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 12:26 AM

If she invented "Mr Whippy" style Ice cream, she must have done it a bloody long time ago because I can remember buying "Softa Freeze" from Pelosi's Ice Cream Parlours in Ramsgate in c1952.

I am forever grateful that I emigrated to Australia in 1972 before she got her hooks into the government.

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 12:54 AM

was it a yank mod who deleted the daft innocuous quote
from Cliff Richard's "Devil Woman" lyric ???

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Musket
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 04:28 AM

Teribus,

War memoirs by someone puffing up their importance is at least as reliable as the leaked documents I was referring to, I suppose. But no more reliable either.

One day, the truth on that matter shall out and either your stance or mine will be vindicated. But in the meantime, we can both put forward which we would believe to be the most credible.

I have been told her reaction to the reporter's question at the time is available on Utube, if anyone knows how to search it. Must admit, I know how to get to Shaun the Sheep doing Flock Dance but thats about my limit.

Mind you, despite the impetus of defending the task force, I find your describing a scenario that never happened and then saying "Guess what? He'd had been right to sink it" to be grasping at straws. Let's deal with the death and carnage that happened, not that which an old warrior wished for.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 04:55 AM

we all agreed that we should send a task force——Source: Hansard HC [23/14-18]

well I had doubts about the wisdom of it.

The royal 'we' - maybe. I suppose in a way Woodward was right, if you're in a war - you don't piss about. They're there to kill you, you're there to kill them.

It was a sad business for England. the SDP pretty much had the tories by the throat. Whatever you thought of Williams/Owen/Steele - it was THE one chance England had of the electoral reform it needs so much.

Of course once Maggie had done the can can in Union Jack knickers, the chance had gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 05:20 AM

Musket, Teribus is well known for being a long standing Thatcher apologist.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 05:45 AM

Teribus = Land of Death

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 08:52 AM

The legatees of the Thatcher blitzkrieg are curently closing down Remploy factories all over the country. That's one place us Thatcher haters will be heading to.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 03:48 PM

GUEST - 16 Aug 12 - 07:54 PM

Yep, you got me there. Thanks for the correction.

I am assuming that the "GUEST" here is Steve Shaw not wishing to lose "street cred" by admitting in person that he was in error.

Dave Hanson - 17 Aug 12 - 05:20 AM

Musket, Teribus is well known for being a long standing Thatcher apologist.

Dave H is of course in error Musket Teribus is well known for challenging the many myths, misrepresentations, half-truths and downright lies trotted out regularly by the rabid left and champions of "socialism - as practised" who will do anything other and cast blame on anyone rather than admit that it is normally the ones they support that keep dumping us in the shit, as lately demonstrated by such scions of "Labour" as Blair & Brown - Oh I know they weren't real socialists, but there again after each and everyone of them fail that is always how they are described - doesn't alter the fact you all voted for them time and time again does it?

I cannot help but being mildly amused by "champagne socialist" Musket with his wine cooler holding serveral bottles of champagne no less. Must have developed a taste for it whilst working for the Union eh?

Of course the Unions in the UK needed taking on after almost a decade of holding the country to ransome and contributing to the destruction of our industrial base. Thatcher was the only politician in the country to provide the leadership to do it - and for that to her I am eternally grateful.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 04:05 PM

Now as far as the whys and wherefores go with regard to the events that took place in the South Atlantic thirty years ago I can either believe the ill-informed suppositions of someone who was not there, or I can believe published accounts by those responsible for directing operations, accounts that are in the public domain and open to professional critique and challenge. It is a no brainer really isn't it Musket I'll take Woodwards account and his reasoning over yours any day.

"I find your describing a scenario that never happened and then saying "Guess what? He'd had been right to sink it" to be grasping at straws."

Never happened?? What utter rot you spout. To the North of the Falklands the Carrier force's radar coverage extended only 40 miles beyond the position of the Type 42 Air Defence Destroyers. The Argentine Carrier Group escorted by Argentina's own two Type 42's had been detected by radar intercept from aircraft launched from Illustrious. Woodward (a very experienced Submariner himself) disagreed with our SSN's, particularly those stationed to the North, operating as they would have done in the Northern Atlantic. He would have assigned them differently (again taken from his book). The disagreement as to who controlled the submarines is matter of recorded fact as is the timing of those discussions so the charge of 20 x 20 hindsight does not enter into the equation.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 06:24 PM

Yes, teribus you twat, guest was indeed me, Steve, temporarily and unavoidably on the wrong computer. I'm always more than happy to admit my errors, thanks. One day you'll admit the error of all your ways. Maybe not hiding behind a pseudonym either, hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 08:16 PM

If it hasn't appeared here before....who remembers the chant that built up a syllable at a time to ' A long strong black pudding up mar grit thatcher ( sideways). A mainstay of the Blackheath Morris 'Apres' in the eighties!

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Aug 12 - 08:29 PM

when she dies,I will not be sorry.
A corrupt small minded ambitious shopkeeper who had no understanding of anything other than her parochial up bringing, some christian

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 02:52 AM

Teribus, is it true that you walk round in circles because you totally refuse to make any left turns ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:05 AM

HMS Teribus sinks the whole fleet of leaky canoes with one broadside, and sails off majestically....leaving the survivors as shark fodder!

Isn't it strange how history keeps repeating itself?

Just goes to show that left wing "liberal" ideology is a very poor base on which to build an argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:16 AM

The tragedy is, that when the revolution comes....as i'm afraid it will, it will be people like me and Teribus who will have to liquidate one another, while the "fluffy bunny's" peek out from the safety of their holes.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:17 AM

"Now as far as the whys and wherefores go with regard to the events that took place in the South Atlantic thirty years ago"
Pompous eejit.
Once again one of Terry the Termite's military arguments take on the air of a pub discussion five minutes before closing time.
The fact is that we still know very little of the whys and wherefores of the sinking of the Belgrano, and probably never shall.
We only know what little we do of the incident because a heroic civil servant, Clive Ponting, passed on information to an opposition Member of Parliament, who then made it generally known that (a) The Belgrano had beeen sighted a day earlier than officially reported, (b) It was sailing away from the scene of battle and (c) It was outside the officially agreed exclusion zone.
Ponting risked his liberty by passing on this information, which, he argued, was "in the public interest"; Thatcher decided we had no right to to such information and had him charged with a criminal act and and then tightened up UK secrets legislation by introducing the Official Secrets Act 1989.
Despite the judge's ruling that "the public interest is what the government of the day says it is", Ponting was acquitted.
To put as 'evidence' the somewhat bombastic ramblings of a then involved combatant "or I can believe published accounts by those responsible for directing operations", is typical of Terrytoon's somewhat Colonel Blimpish, bar-room brigadeerism and his past defence of the indefencible.
The fact is that we don't know, and can only base our judgement on what little we have been told.
My attitude is that it would come as no great surprise to learn that a British prime minister who admired and supposted a fascist dictator who allowed and probably directed acts of mass murder, wholesale torture and illegal imprisonment, was capable of anything, including war crimes.
I still have fond memories of Thatcher taking part in a radio phone-in and being totally humiliated by schoolteacher Mrs Diana Gould, who exposed her dangerous ignorance and dishonesty on the Belgrano to the world. Thatcher committed one of the cardinal sins of politics, going public before she had got her story straight.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 03:37 AM

I don't know why we are concentrating on one of Thatcher's few pragmatically correct decisions. As I long ago argued - Thatcher's decision to order the sinking of the Belgrano was technically a breach of international law because no war had been declared but it was probably the right thing to do. In her shoes I would also have sent the taskforce to defend England's legitimate colony attacked by an illegal invading force. I would also have sunk the Belgrano and as many other Argentinian vessels as possible. If we had destroyed the entire Argentinian navy perhaps the ridiculous and opportunistic colonial ambitions of Argentina would not now be again asserted.

I'm not sure I would have intentionally provoked the entire Falklands incident for the purpose of electoral credibility however.

The disgusting and evil woman committed so many other wrongs.

I do find it amusing how even now I am on the other side of the argument from Mither, even when he is being assailed by our local colonel blimps and the Pharaoh fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 04:30 AM

"I don't know why we are concentrating...."
You might be right Richard.
Why has it become an issue here? Because it is a straw that has been grasped by Thatcherites like The Chocolate Soldier and Ake the phobe in an attempt to salvage what little dignity might be remaining to those defending one very vicious politician who all but brought Britain to her knees and the effects of whose policies of 'sending the weaker to the wall' are still being felt - "closing down Remploy factories all over the country.".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Musket
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 05:44 AM

Ah well Bridge, keep the grey cells turning and who knows?

Hey Teribus. Me a champagne socialist? Wow, I like that. Bridge, take note, I love being called a champagne socialist, (as opposed to the many armchair socialists here...)

No, I didn't get my wine cooler when I was in a union. I was only ever in one union, The NUM up till just after the strike when I buggered off to plough my own field. I possibly got the idea for a wine cooler when I was chief executive of a group of manufacturing companies and giving talks to CBI sponsored events and even once to The Adam Smith Institute. But there again, by mentioning my wine cooler, you have done a little research. Do some more and you will find I am a dirty rotten stinking capitalist after all.

In order to believe in supporting a social program through capitalism, don't make the mistake it means you also believe in greed, warfare, class or obnoxious right wing bullshit.

Ken Dodd got it right, (other than his tax affairs...) He said if you are not a socialist when you are 20, something is wrong. If you are still a socialist when you are 30, something is wrong.

And you're still bloody wrong 30 years after the "conflict" (as opposed to "war.")

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 06:02 AM

I think, Mither, you misquote and misattribute George Bernard Shaw. Dodd was put into a bad place by Lance Blackstone (with whom I used to do work for some other clients - but I was a big man then... now I'm just a short fat old grumpy one, which I much prefer).

Capitalism is inseparable from greed selfishness right wing and/or libertarian shit, and the oppression of the poor by the rich. You should have learned that by now.

Assuming that Tatcher did in fact invent "Mr Whippy" (nothing to do with "Miss Whiplash"), although I thought Carpigiani were making the machinery before any English food machinery manufacturers (and my late father owned one, Hamilton Perryn and its offshoot Hamlyn Engineering) it fits with all I know of her. Make an inferior product and charge people more for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Stu
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 06:37 AM

Yay! Teribus, here's one left-wing, delusional fat scruttock who's glad to see you back at least.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Musket
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 07:32 AM

Aye and socialism is inseparable from Stalinist pogroms and oppression by your weird argument.

GBS has credibility, so it sounds far better attributing it to Ken Dodd, who at least said it as I quoted it. Bugger credibility. Your comments rarely have any, so why should I be any different?

Capitalism and socialism are both tools or enablers. It is the finished product you should be interested in. If capitalism can raise the funds for a social programme, or socialism can coerce the funds for a social programme, you get a social programme. I may denounce Bliar for being starry eyed with Republican Americans, I may denounce Broon for fiscal incompetence in his early years, but the philosophy, spearheaded by the Dark Lord Mandy, is a sound one. Have a welfare state, equality etc etc but be honest about how you fund it.

Th*tcher however liked the enabling bits about capitalism, but wished to destroy the society that could have benefited from it. I'm not sure this lot are much more enlightened for that matter. Benevolent charity is not the same as equal opportunity, but she tried to use it as an alternative and this lot carry it on.

But for a businessman such as yourself to decry capitalism, all I can say is that the British self loathing syndrome is alive and kicking in Kent....

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 07:57 AM

Complete bollocks as usual Mither. The basis of capitalism is self interest.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 09:35 AM

(Ovalteenies theme tune)

We are the Thatcher haters
Little reds and trots
We hate the rich and powerful,
All their privilege and money
All their private jets and yachts.

Margaret Thatcher was a stinker
And all her tory chums
Kenneth Clark, and Kenneth Baker
And Keith Joseph
They were bums.

If you you vote for unemployment
the usual tory plots
I suppose it is a shame
but you've got yourself to blame
So join the reds and trots!

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Musket
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 10:00 AM

Not in my book and I suspect not in the books of anybody other than confused self appointed authorities on matters.   

if you work and give a percentage of your earnings to a government to fund their public sector social programme, that's capitalism. if you work and the government give you back something to live on, that's totalitarianism.

As you remind us so often of your job, welcome to the fact you are capitalist too. Come on in, the water's lovely.

Mind you, unlike you, I've never called myself a Tory, so perhaps you should be giving me lessons as the Tories (mistakenly) think they own the word, whereas they give the impression that ultimately, they only own the vision you reckon anybody who disagrees with you owns.

(And that is a hell of a lot of people, luckily. Normally enough to dismiss such tosh at election time.)

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Musket
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 10:31 AM

Al, see me after class.

Ken Clarke is not a Tory any more than Bliar was a socialist..

I joined the reds and trots and all I got was this lousy Che Guevara T shirt.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 12:03 PM

"Come on in, the water's lovely."

Yeah, it's working a real treat.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,WB Lad
Date: 18 Aug 12 - 02:02 PM

Musket, if you think Ken Clarke's not a Tory, then obviously you don't have him as an MP (as I do).

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 03:44 AM

Just noting the difference between Tory and Tory. Same as labour and socialist.

All MPs really. He is the sixth lib dem in the cabinet though and come the reshuffle we will all know that. I have had dealings with him and yes, he is a one nation Tory but as such is ideology free, unlike the inexperienced dogma suffering idiots calling the shots.

Mind you, I'm not starting a love campaign for the bugger. I still disagree with a hell of a lot he stands for. Would I vote for him? Only if, as is at the moment, he was helping prevent a goverment from lurching to polarised policies.

And that would also mean voting Tory which I have never done and based on present form am never likely to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:03 PM


Why has it(Belgrano) become an issue here? Because it is a straw that has been grasped by Thatcherites
Wrong Jim.
The first several Belgrano posts were all from your Lefty mates.

Subject: RE: BS: Where now Thatcher haters?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Aug 12 - 06:13 PM

2oo!

"and we have it from their Admiral that she was indeed out to get a carrier."
There is no certainty about this; it has been denied as having never been said.
The Independent, 3rd April 2012
Rear-Admiral Walter Allara, in command of the Belgrano battlegroup, said: "The entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, felt it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano." Admiral Enrique Molina Pico, head of the Argentinian Navy in the 1990s, said the cruiser was part of an operation that posed a real threat to the British task force and that she was holding off from carrying out an attack for purely tactical reasons.