BS: Help me stay out of the middle

Subject: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Janie
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 07:00 PM

I know exactly what I need to do, but doing it is hard. A lttle support please.

My son and his father are estranged. (Dad and I are divorced.) Both of them have made some really bad choices with respect to one another. I keep finding myself in the middle. Father and son both invite, even expect me to jump into the middle, but only because that is an expectation I have created through my own patterns of behavior.    I very much need to stop running interference between them but it is like a compulsion. I ain't the only Mom or Dad who has sailed these rough waters, and am looking for some backbone.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: gnu
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 07:13 PM

Tough one. Tell them both to be a man and sort it out on their own?

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 07:35 PM

hmmm. If the son is over 16 tell him that he needs to deal with his dad on his own. If he is 16 or under, protect him like a mother. You don't owe your divorced husband any parenting.

Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Janie
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 07:40 PM

Thanks, gnu. I don't have any problem with telling both of them that. My problem is with leaving it at that. With refusing the invitation to be the "go between."

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Janie
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 07:43 PM

And thanks Jack. I need to stop protecting him like a mother, but I still need to be a mother. Hard to find the path.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 07:44 PM

I think as a mom, you have to take your son's side and let his relationship with his dad be up to him. Your son is where your healthy long term relationship exists. But that is still my two cents worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Elmore
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 10:30 PM

You're on your own. I can't make peace in my own family squabbles. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Janie
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 11:00 PM

The phone calls and pms affirm this place is still a very real community.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 03:49 AM

I've been there, Janie, and it's tough. Listening without comment may be the best thing you can do. You might want to tell your son that all you can do is listen, but you're happy to do that. Good luck.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Megan L
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 05:05 AM

I bite my thumb

Whenever I would take control and do what I think is best
I stop a while and bite my thumb to give my brain a rest
Whenever I would face the world and try sort everything
I bite my thumb to remind me, it's a battle I can't win
Whenever I would give advice they neither want or need
I bite my thumb and think about all those words I did not heed.


I love you and I will be here to listen to your fears
But I cannot live your life for you I cannot cry your tears
I hope that I have showed you how to plough your furrow straight
This life is now your field to plough I can only sit and wait
I can only hope I taught you well as I helped you grow
So now I have to bite my thumb and let your harvest grow.
mhtbl

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 09:11 AM

Janie,
Maybe if you see your input as enabling rather than helping, you will be able to stop yourself.
I am assuming here it is differences of opinion causing the squabbles and no one is in physical danger.
My mother was the one who solved everyone's "differences". When she died I took over but soon grew tired of it. I began by responding "That's too bad" and adding nothing. There was frustration and anger and then they either sorted it out on their own or not.
It is hard to stay out when the solution is so obvious and simple but we do them and ourselves no good.
As you said, you know exactly what to do. Suck it up girl and do it.
Love,
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 10:02 AM

"I very much need to stop running interference between them but it is like a compulsion."

Have you ever experienced other 'compulsive' behaviours? What strategies did you use to address them? How do you advise clients to deal with compulsive behaviours of their own?

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 10:33 AM

Janie, I was the go-between for my divorced parents for a number of years - it started when I was a kid so I didn't realize it, but as I got older I pushed back. Mom was the one who wanted the go-between because she was bitter about the divorce (that she initiated) and the outcome (she wanted more money that I frankly don't think she was entitled to - from a house my father owned before they were married.) Anyway, over the years I refused to pass messages between them, and made it clear to my husband and kids that they didn't need to pass messages either. So the last time we were up there visiting and mostly staying at my Mom's, I went up to Dad's one day and was there for a while. She wanted to know when I was coming back to her house and tried to get my spouse (we're divorced now, but are still friends) to call for her, and he refused. She actually had to make the call herself and I think it was the first time she spoke to him in 20 years.

Your ex and son may not have a lot of occasion to exchange information, but stay out of that and perhaps they'll have to talk one of these days.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 10:44 AM

"stay out of that and perhaps they'll have to talk one of these days."

Great point SRS! Being the go between helps keep the wedge alive. It doesn't allow the individuals concerned to repare their relationship. It doesn't facilitate communication it only facilitates the maintenance of a wounded empty space.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 10:48 AM

Below is a personal (and rambling) reflection. Just ignore it, if you feel it is pointless, not helpful, or just annoying:)

I raised two children while divorced (with a previously childless step-mother in the mix). As the children went through the rebelious stages, at times it was stormy and frustrating. I often felt I was on soft and uncharted ground. But, everything seemed to work out in the end. Kids are now responsible and respectful adults (one a remarkable parent of two) and everyone now "gets along" as an extended family.

My experience, in looking back, was to be clear to myself about my "one" most important role and not to get caught up in a non-productive "dust up" of the day.

I focused on (never forgot) my primary role - parenting children to a healthy adulthood, through the many situations. To do this, I had to remain mentally healthy and reaspected by all as being above the disputes. I put aside the previous negative personal feelings I had for my Ex (excess alcohol use was a continuing issue). Establishing a two way telephone communication (outside the children's ears) where we focused only on the children's welfare helped.

Some say outside help is good if you have a crisis. My experiences with getting help through a councillor was a "big" disaster, and only made things worse.It opened new issues, and made existing ones worse. I read alot, (late night on the computer) and learned different approaches to (what I felt were) unique situations from others who faced similar ones.

Some things I learned:

There is actually no such thing as an "expert" in family affairs. Situations differ, and so do the many strategies, to different degrees.

While there are many approaches to "get you there", some approaches are better, and others lead you down a path of excess personal stress (if you feel up to it)..

Over time, things get much better.

Have a non-involved and wise "trusted" friend (s) to consult with when needed. (Even if it is only to occasionally get things off your chest).

To avoid dysfunction, someone has to wear "the white hat" in a family. If no one else does - it is you.

Demand respectful discourse for all in the family, regardless of the issue. This includes respecting you.

Establish a strategy for basic "rules of engagement" let the parties know the limits, and stick with them at all times.


Position yourself above all disputes. Don't take sides in a dispute. To retain trust, don't get sucked in to these disputes, regardless of who you feel is right.

It is pointless to discuss a topic in a heated dispute between two, when only the third person is listening. These discussions are best put off to times when "open minds" are present. Delay discussions in these times. (Some dispute topics may never be directly discussed (or resolved) again- if the climate is never right. That's OK. But, it is possible (if the opportunity is there) to (eventually independantly discuss the topic with either party from another angle, (one that is not as emotional), if, you feel the issue is important.

Try to find common ground, where everyone wins and loses something in a dispute.

Never share your "inner feelings" and say bad things to one party about the other. It is a killer for your needed trust and respect.

Good guidance (your words) matters to a child. Though it may seem they are not listening, they are so. They will use your advice and example to carry them through life. Many children will likely give you recognition for this in later life (it happened to me), as they see the importance. This is a "big" reward in life.

It is in the child's best interests (and all involved) to establish an independent and a good relationship with each parent - even if these folks also don't get along (try and get the other parent(s) to recognize this). There are situations where this is not possible. Children may be impacted by this, but it does not mean they will not grow up to be healthy adults.

Don't completely put your own personal life "on hold". You need to be emotionally healthy and fulfilled during all phases of your life and to face the various challenges (family is only one).

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 10:55 AM

One I missed

I never forgot to let others in my life know from the top (including those in new relationships) that my kids "come first" and if they do not show respect to my kids, they cannot expect me to respect them in my life.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 12:52 PM

Some great thoughts - and strategies - here that extend far beyond the original conflict presented. I especially like Joe O's: "You might want to tell your son that all you can do is listen, but you're happy to do that." Sometimes a sounding board, with the effect of being required to formulate a coherent grievance, may be all that is needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: gnu
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 01:24 PM

Ditto Ebbie.

Megan... more wonderful poetry. Thanks for sharing your gift.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Janie
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 05:38 PM

Thanks all.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 07:06 PM

Thanks for letting us help, Janie.

Megan...stunning...PUBLISH!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 09 Sep 12 - 09:40 PM

you might suggest to both a non-Janie mediator that they are already comfortable with? Hadn't thought of that.

Don't be afraid to call on friends to help you hold the line : )

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: gnu
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 07:43 PM

This thread is almost off the one day page and I must refresh... even tho THIS is thread drift... Megan's poetry is far too priceless to not get it out to more people. She has posted a number of her writings herein over time and they are absolutely stellar. A poet, a writer, a bard... stellar.

And she's a pretty good old broad in my books. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 08:48 PM

"Old?" Isn't she the one who is always threatening to 'skelp' someone? Doesn't sound old to me. (Don't look back, gnu- she may be gaining on you.)

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 11:42 AM

I agree with some of the longer remarks and poetry: I'd sum it up to simply "Choose your battles." The ones you can't win aren't worth engaging in. That was my approach to parenting teenagers, along with the attitude that as thinking autonomous individuals they needed to be treated with respect. Modeling that for them by not getting in the middle of a pointless battle will go a long way, especially if at some time in the future you touch on this choice in a discussion to sum it up so it is hammered home for your son.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: Crowhugger
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 10:28 PM

Virtual forgive-yourself hugs are on their way to you Janie for those days when old habits accidentally win out over new intentions.

Subject: RE: BS: Help me stay out of the middle
From: gnu
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 08:43 PM

OLD? I said GOOD OLD BROAD. Meaning wise... sage... cool... to be respected for her knowledge and... ahhh shit. Skelp me.