BS: The GOP will steal the election [2012]

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 12:30 AM

Neither of those is a substantive incentive unless it can be parlayed into votes, influence or cash. Go figger.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 12:22 AM

"As I've noted, gerrymandering is done by both GOP and Democrats.    You need some incentive-some appeal to self-interest- to stop them from doing it.    Since it usually means safe seats for both parties, what will your incentive be? "

How about the Constitution of the United States of America? Plus the American Value of fairness?

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 10:32 PM

As I've noted, gerrymandering is done by both GOP and Democrats.    You need some incentive-some appeal to self-interest- to stop them from doing it.    Since it usually means safe seats for both parties, what will your incentive be?

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 05:32 PM

Here in NC the Congressional delegation election was stolen...

We have 12 seats in the House of Representatives...

Dems represent 49% of the vote in NC but won only 2 of the 12 seats...

Gerrymandering is stealing...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 02:52 PM

Nope Jack, not on the same political side at all - not even on the same planet.

Best,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:48 PM

Ron, Greg,

I don't pay close attention to your posts when either of you argue, so please excuse me if I got this wrong, but aren't you two usually on the same political side?

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:01 PM

Yowzah! Whata buncha pointless ad hominem! Lemme have some facts and sound reason, please. Or at least something really funny. In any discourse, I want to be enlightened to a new outlook, educated to new information--yes that is a proud hallmark of Liberalism--or entertained. Rush does none of that, which is why I don't listen to him. And this thread, or at least the last part of it doesn't either. C'mon folks, please??

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 12:37 PM

Marvelous! ;-D You never fail to satisfy, gentlemen.

Tune in for more thrilling episodes of Nasty Old Men Online shortly! The program where cuttingly snide intellectual putdowns square off against crudely obscene invective and devastatingly personal criticism, and NO mercy is ever asked or given! It's much more fun than the festering feuds that have lingered on for years in your own neighborhood, and you can watch it all from the safety and comfort of your home office or rec room, courtesy of the miracle of the modern Internet.

Next riveting installment to air shortly!

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 12:33 PM

As an outside observer, watching bickering, most of us don't care which is the bigger asshole. We care whether or not each individual is one. Its not like the parable of the bear where you simply have to outrun your opponent. It is more like the mud fight where both sides get dirty.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 11:47 AM

Which goddam frackin sumbitch gutter is that, Simple Seeker?

And why no words of wisdom to bestow upon us lesser beings?

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 10:23 AM

Glad to see, Greg, that you've climbed out of the gutter, Who knows, perhaps you can stay out this time.

We can dream.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Nov 12 - 06:05 PM

Simple Seeker - the only Sensible Persion on the Face of the Earth, the Voice of Reason, and the Ultimate Authority on Everything.

Whatta Guy!

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: sciencegeek
Date: 27 Nov 12 - 04:30 PM

finally did something I've put off for too dang long... posted to the White House Suggestion Box on Facebook...

I really don't go on Facebook much, but it was the first place I located where I can put in two cents worth & maybe have some small effect...

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Nov 12 - 10:12 AM

Au contraire, Ake, the two posters I have cited have made an obvious attempt to corner the market on overblown assertions regarding politics.   It is a perfectly reasonable idea ---exaggeration? perish the thought--to portray this as a monopoly in the field. Admittedly on Mudcat this monopoly is not easy to defend, with so many other eager competitors. It would be much easier to start Sensible Ideas R Us, though very few posters seem to have any interest in even entering that market.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 06:07 PM

Thanks for the gratuitous personal attack, Hawk - you know, the kind you're always pissing and moaning about?

Which pond is that, Little, and which side? And my snarling is considerably more palatable than your constant smarming and relativism.

And Pharoah, Ron doesn't have a REASONABLE understanding of anything that I'm aware of - he is The Ultimate Authority On Everything.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 04:11 PM

" Just one more chapter in the ongoing saga of the popular Mudcat soap opera..."Nasty Old Men Online". "

Don't you think the most pathetic character in this tale is the one being nasty about people being nasty?

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 04:06 PM

Get a grip Ron, you may have a reasonable understanding of political theory, but wordsmith you are not.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 01:41 PM

LH--you must have been looking in the mirror when you posted last.    Or maybe you're being properly vigilant since the use of " Purple Prose R Us" is a violation of your copyright.    Maybe you could just offer Mr. Refugee Trying To Get Away From Sanity a franchise in the business--since it does appear you did start it.    Sorry for not acknowledging that.    It's hard to keep track of all your copyrights---"Big Media", etc.   But it certainly is good your rates are reasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 07:50 PM

Ron's undies are almost constantly in a twist about something, GfS. Get used to it. ;-)

Then there's Greg F., who is always snarling viciously at people across the pond and telling them to "blow" him or to "fuck off", just because he disagrees with their opinion about something...well, about anything actually. He makes Ron Davies look positively reasonable, kindly, and tolerant in comparison!

The funniest thing is, those two feud with each other too. Just one more chapter in the ongoing saga of the popular Mudcat soap opera..."Nasty Old Men Online".

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 06:15 PM

Aw, Keep your shirt on...it ain't the first nor last time someone got their undies in a twist because I was right..it's just not that right is popular! Lies are more beneficial to whatever political group is pushing them!...(well, in the short term, that is!).

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 03:56 PM

And maybe, Mr. Refugee from Sanity, you could just simmer down a bit. Or you could open a new business:   Purple Prose R Us.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 02:39 PM

Good!
Does it matter??
The powers that be, who corrupt both parties, makes it a non-issue. the corruption of our body politic has brought this country's morale down to where a lot of working folks figure, 'What's the use?'..now the 'left' will applaud that..not thinking that it's those same working folks that support the funds for the entitlements...and about everything else...except of course when the 'fed' prints more money, physically or digitally, and heaps the interests on the backs of those same working folks. Perhaps it's time to review the policies that let runaway programs and the 'Fed' dictate the worthlessness of our time and money. First one the list SHOULD be going after the powers that corrupt the system...but that won't happen..they will see to it that everything else should go down, except their stronghold on bilking us, and magnifying the divisions, to keep themselves safe!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 11:29 AM

"unwilling"

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 10:53 AM

C'mon people.    Ya gotta read a little more carefully.    "Mitt was right..."    Sorry, he did not say he would get 47% of the vote, but rather that 47% would definitely not vote for him, since that portion was hopelessly addicted to government help and unwilliing to help themselves.

Not exactly the most brilliant thing he could have said.   After all he only needed to lose another few percent to lose the election.   And he proceeded to do just that.

But good thing Obama's campaign thought more clearly than some Mudcatters.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:56 PM

"Looks like Mitt was right about one thing - he got 47% of the vote"

Good I didn't bet on the numbers. Some months back on Mudcat I called for Obama 53% and Romney 46%. What can I say: shit happens.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: cujimmy
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:43 PM

Looks like Mitt was right about one thing - he got 47% of the vote

serves him right
http://theweek.com/article/index/236741/irony-alert-mitt-romneys-final-vote-tally-nears-47-percent

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 03:16 PM

Yeah, I know.   Only one post was necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM

I am willing to deal with reality. Some Mudcatters have a problem with reality.    This improves nothing.

Since the Civil War, no 3rd party in the US has done anything but hand the election to one of the 2 big parties. When a group left of center tries to start a new party, it's the Right that benefits.   A cold fact.

You're welcome to your own theories, but not your own facts.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM

I am willing to deal with reality. Some Mudcatters have a problem with reality.    This improves nothing.

Since the Civil War, no 3rd party in the US has done anything but hand the election to one of the 2 big parties. When a group left of center tries to start a new party, it's the Right that benefits.   A cold fact.

You're welcome to your own theories, but not your own facts.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 10:44 AM

You're still buying into the two-party system, Ron. I think that's a mistake. Your mileage varies.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 11:09 PM

Sorry, its not Ake, it's Donuel--Lewis Carroll, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 07:33 PM

"tantamount to suicide".    What will be tantamount to suicide is if people left of center vote for a third party, but people in the center and on the right vote GOP.    The brilliant minds who vote for the third party will be turning the US over to the Right.

It's called unilateral disarmament.   And, to put it mildly, not usually thought of as a good idea by anyone with any sense.





And Ake--you offer wonderful comic relief--you must be quoting from Lewis Carroll's latest book.   Be sure to tell us when you have something else to offer.

Some of us however prefer our political reporting from the non-fiction side of the bookstore.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 06:58 PM

Ebbie I will always forgive for not knowing in the first place, but to convienently forget is the same as lieing. Which was it?
Perhaps I should not have said 'outlawed' within your earshot but the 20 year standing coalition of network exit polling was disbanded during the 'Bushapolypse'. The group had a name which I now forget.

Perhaps I should not have said Bushapolypse within...



What else, oh yes what little hawk said about 15 year olds.





While the GOP hoped to steal the election via changing voting laws to suppress the vote but it was all struck down by courts under the voting rights bill. Good work by the AG with so little time left.


now for the VERY Important thing that happened this week ...


The GOP may get their chance to steal in earnest since the Supreme Court has just this week decided to hear the case to abolish section 5 of the voting rights law which would allow states to use virtually any Jim Crow /Rube Goldberg rule or device to make sure only white property owners will have their votes counted. THIS BODES Poorly for at least 5 million democratic votes to be counted in the neo Confederate States in the near future and beyond.

Will this Bush court spend its last shred of legitimacy in rolling back the voting rights bill to help both the racists and corporate billionaires ???????

Or will they vote for democracy over corporate racist plutocracy?

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 06:21 PM

LOLOL

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,roderick warner
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 06:20 PM

How's that GOP stealing the election vibe going?

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:51 PM

Aah. I agree with much of that, Ron. However, I think voting either Republican or Democrat in the next presidential election will be tantamount to suicide, because neither party really deserves the trust of American people. As I said earlier, the USA needs more independents to weaken the power of the two big parties and start to re-enfranchise the electorate. Half the congress are millionaires. They have NOTHING in common with average citizens, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:28 PM

The problem is that in this election either not voting or voting for anybody but Obama was equivalent to voting for Romney.    So anybody who was against Romney and had any sense would vote for Obama.   No other course of action made any sense.

We saw what happened when Leftists, in particular, tried another approach--in the 2000 election, for instance, and possibly again in 2004.    Any vote for Nader was equivalent to a vote for the GOP.

It would be a pleasant change if people on the Left stopped whining and started thinking.



It is certainly reasonable to point out problems with voting machines, suppression of votes, etc.

It is not reasonable, to put it mildly, to headline a thread on a left-leaning site "The GOP will steal the election".   It is in fact, for the n th time, stupid and defeatist-- for the reasons I and others have cited. You do not want to give anybody, especially some of the flaky Leftists who grace this site, any excuse for doing anything but voting for Obama, despite the fact, that--so sorry--- Obama is not perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 11:03 AM

Well, the premise of this thread is bullshit. However, the notion that not voting somehow puts a person at the right hand of satan isn't much better.

I have a few times not voted. I was registered, went to the polling station, marred my ballot, signed my name and left.

Our countries need more independents. Like Ottawa does Canadians a favour by offering a choice between Conservatives and Liberals? Yeah, tell me another one.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:49 PM

"real as real can be"   So is deciding not to vote. So you don't want to encourage it.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:47 PM

A few years back a skydiver's parachute failed to open but he was fortunate to find a softer landing and lived...

With your logic, Ron, this guy would go skydiving next tine with no parachute...

Failed logic...

"Citizen's United", voter suppression and voter intimidation have a real chance of influencing/stealing future elections...

That is real is real can be...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:34 PM

Coulda shoulda woulda is pointless.   It was a clear victory by Obama.   Wrangling about whether it might have been a landslide with certain factors being different is-- besides being dubious, to say the least-- a stunningly stupid waste of time.   Perhaps you have the time--I actually think there are more important things to do--like raking leaves, or anything else. Even other threads are more worthwhile.

And my other point was that on an left-leaning site, you don't want people encouraged to sit home rather than fight what our resident Leftist oracles have declared to be a system you can't beat. Or encouraged to vote for the Greens etc.

Since the only way you can really fight against a deck stacked in favor of the GOP is to go out and vote--for Obama.   No thanks to the querulous old biddies who think otherwise.

So, yet again, this thread, with its smug defeatism, was worse than useless.

No surprise some of our resident giant intellects refuse to admit this. Situation normal.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:18 PM

I'd rather have people like King and Sanders in Congress than most the folks who are there now. The country needs to elect more independents.

Half the Congress are millionaires. Like they can relate to Jane/John Doe, right?

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:03 PM

Ron, I DO think the Republicans have been doing some well-organized cheating on the vote count in certain states in the past 3 or more elections...and that would NOT stop me from going out to vote against them if I were an American...it would redouble my determination to go out and vote against them.

Therefore, I don't regard sounding an alarm about it to be counterproductive for the American left. Quite the contrary.

Perhaps I am not so easily discouraged by reports of Republican vote fixing as you think I am. And perhaps that goes for many others also. It seems to me that anyone who suspects vote tampering has every reason to talk loud and long about it, just to alert other people and make them watch for any irregularities when they do go out to vote.

You can't make a problem go away by not even daring to talk about it publicly for fear it may "discourage" people.

I realize you are looking at that from a different argumentative angle, and the longer one defends any argument, the more one becomes loyal to it...but consider the angle I'm looking at it from. We both wanted the Republicans to lose, for gosh sakes! (and the fact that I have frequently criticized Obama's administration in the past 4 years doesn't change that one bit) I was horrified by the 8 years of Bush, and about equally horrified at the possibility of 4 or more years of Romney in the White House. I'd far rather have Obama in the White House, given the choice.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:48 PM

The point that TIA made yesterday is, IMHO, accurate...

Had it not been for trickery on all levels by the Repubs the election would have been a landslide...

It bothers me to read that the folks who pumped hundreds of million$$$ into the GOP thru Citizens United didn't get a return on their investment... Or that, in spite of all the voter suppression and intimidation efforts, democracy prevailed...

No, had Citizen United and trickery not been in play than Obama would have won by 10 points, the Senate would be pushing a super majority and the Dems would have picked up another 10 or 20 seats in the House...

Citizens United and trickery is very much a threat to our future democracy...

Guitar pickin' is fun but doesn't change that reality...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:34 PM

It's particularly remarkable that he won so resoundingly since the unemployment rate is, I believe, still 7.9%, after 4 years--and that does not even take into account those who have given up looking for work, and those who have new jobs which don't pay as well as the old.
That's why Romney's citing of the old question:   "Are you better off now than 4 years ago?" seemed to carry such resonance. And Romney, was, shall we say, more than adequately financed.

But Obama and his team beat this whole negative cluster of facts.    It is really a stunning accomplishment--even taking into account Romney's missteps.





"Mitt's cronies.... Bain.... GOP will steal Ohio.   Husted and Kasich will make sure."    More flawless political analysis--based solidly on-- paranoia-- from one of our most reliable sources.   Just what we needed on a left-leaning site coming up to what looked like a close election.   As I said earlier, this thread is less than worthless, since anybody actually believing the thesis would be tempted to not vote---the election would be stolen anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 12:56 PM

Decisive, unquestionable, clear, significant...yes. A very significant victory. The fact that it was achieved during pretty tough economic times makes it all the more significant. In more prosperous economic times I think Obama would have won by a landslide. It's not that easy to get re-elected when the economy is still hurting badly. (though it did improve a bit in the last year)

One thing is clear. The nature of the electoral demographic in the USA is shifting, and that shift is beginning to deprive the Far Right of its strength at the polls. You can't win an election any longer by appealing only to angry old white men.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 12:44 PM

Decisive, unquestionable, clear, significant--anybody with any sense should accept this. We don't expect Mr. Limbaugh, Mr. Boehner, etc. to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 12:25 PM

I will agree to that. With no precise definition of landlside (outside of Earth Science), it is not a useful discussion.

What is important is to battle the (largely right wing) notion that this was extremely close and therefore not-quite-legitimate.

So, I am happy with the characterization "healthy"...or "significant" (which has precise meaning in a scientific sense)...or "decisive"...or "unquestionable"...etc.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:51 AM

As long as all sides agree the election--as it exactly happened--was a healthy victory for the President, but no landslide, there is no problem.

Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 10:18 AM

Check again. Did I point out wishful thinking or facts?