BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 01:26 AM

Ditto, Stringsinger.

Amos is real good and Ron, the two times I saw videos of him is right 'up' there.

Some folks are more skilled or experienced than others, but that don't mean nothing. What 'means' is your belief in what you sing and your love of having an audience join in your 'belief'. You always work hardest for those you love. imo

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 02:50 PM

Bobert, you have a point. Folk music allows for all kinds of music making whether it's academy trained or self trained. If you are trying to weed out trolls and shills who aren't interested in music but with agendas, then I'm with you.

I have never considered music an exclusive club. That's why I asked.

Some of the best musicians I know are self-trained.

I've spent my whole life defending the idea that anyone can make music for personal enjoyment regardless of what expertise they are reputed to have.

The enemies of music in my mind are ego, not listening, putting others down,
claiming authority that is questionable, being closed-minded about music out of their sphere of interest, or being just plain rude and running roughshod over other's attempt to make music.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 12:31 PM

In fact, Amos, it's just not fair we only get to see you once a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 12:29 PM

Hey, Amos--now, folks, there is a real first-class musician---is it too late to get in line to get a copy of your version of "Calico Dress"?    Now that was one of the absolute top highlights of the Getaway (don't tell the author--but for my money your elegiac version tops his.) With just the right amount of hesitation after the guitar run--just stunning.

I was still singing it when I pulled into my driveway.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Janie
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 12:23 PM

What Amos said!

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM

Ron Davies is a fierst-class musician. Modesty notwithstanding!

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Janie
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 11:55 AM

I disagree, McGrath.

Many of us read above the line while rarely, if ever, posting. We realize we have much to learn but as non-musicians or non-scholars, have little to contribute. We are as much "here" as are the musicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 10:13 AM

Music addict, not musician.   All the signs are there.

Do you seek out others to do it with?   Yes.

Do you put off doing other things so you can do it?   Yes.

Can you imagine a day without it? No.

Etc.





Play guitar (really badly)--to accompany myself. Fortunately about 60% of folk and 70% of country can be done with 3 chords.   Excellent book on country:   3 Chords and the Truth.

Play piano--mainly 19th century parlor songs and classical, though I wish I could play blues, boogy-woogy, honky-tonk, etc. Sure seems hard to just make up a good accompaniment on the piano--I'm in awe of people who can do it-- even though I know enough theory that--in theory--I should be able to do it.

Play viola.   These days, bluegrass and country viola--which as far as I'm concerned, means just weaving in a harmony or counterharmony--especially at the end of a vocal line (to try to complement, not interfere with, the singer. That is a lot of fun. Probably could play fiddle--but that would require practice, and I don't seem to have time to practice anything but the piano, and even that is chancy sometimes. I bet no orchestra would take me.

Mainly, I sing. Constantly. With anybody I can find or by myself. Lucky enough to have falsetto, after singing 30 years with the Beach Boys in the car.   And lucky enouugh to be a bass, so years passing mean my voice has sunk. (tenors are really out of luck, it seems). When I walked to the Metro (about 20 years), it was 4 long songs or 5 short songs to the subway.   Love all sorts of vocal music-- (and lots of orchestral music)--everything from choral to doo-wop, country, Irish, sea chanteys, parodies, jazz--and on and on.

And of course, added bonus for singers--you never have to carry an instrument.

Won't mention the conductor who supposedly said:   "Are you a singer or a musician?"

Though I've actually heard conductors say: "OK, I want the men to come in here, and the tenors a few measures later."    No wonder guys--aside from opera singers--don't usually claim to be tenors.

Uh oh, slipping into thead creep.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 04:09 PM

Whew. Thank you, Gnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: gnu
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 03:21 PM

9... Mandolirium. I'll search it tho it's doubtful... no dice. I have a CD. They are in BC. If I can get permission... oh, what am I saying. I'll never be able to contact the Mudcatter who sent me the CD... can't even recall her name.

Hmmm... check out one of my favs...
Long Night

Great use of mando.

There is a great story behind that tune which was written in 20 minutes when the news of Emile Benoit's death reached them. Check out his fiddle tunes. I have CDs and to listen to him make music at 83 is inspirational.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 01:29 PM

By some definition within the spectrum, I guess I'd be a musician.
Been called jack-of-many-trades-master-of-few, among other things.
I play guitar (electric, acoustic, electric bass), piano, organ (anything from combo keys to the King of instruments, the pipe organ), Appalachian dulcimer, acoustic upright bass, and the Great Highland Bagpipes. And I've been known to dabble with things that can make vaguely musical noises, including bodhrans and key chains. Some I've arsed around with but given up on are most wind instruments, fiddle, banjo, and accordion.
I sing, both folk and classical, but don't have the big operatic voice. I compose and conduct. I record and mix some, too, although I seem to have been born lacking the Finish-The-Project gene.
I'm part-time professional in some of these, rank amateur at some, and everywhere between.
It looks like a lot, listed out like that, but there's a lot more I wish I could do (or do better) than otherwise. But it's all about loving music, and participating in every way I can (short of causing listeners actual pain).
-Glenn

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 12:53 PM

Well, I ain't goin' there, Strings, 'cause that poor horse been beat to death...

Guess I should have called it "music maker"???

But seriously, I guess a "musician", for the purpose of this thread, is what folks who don't make music think of everyone who does is???

I donno???

I mean, I used to think of myself as a musician until I met the P-Vine, who has a degree in music, and have had to change my thinkin' around...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 12:46 PM

Bobert you have to define "musician". I've studied music formally and have been a musician/activist for many years. Guitar and singing are my principal instruments.
I also play jazz.

Is a musician someone who plays music regardless of academic training?

I think so.

Sometimes just as musical as someone who has made a formal study of music.

Are you trying to screen out those who may not be musicians but for political reasons feel it necessary to post on this site?

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: David C. Carter
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 12:24 PM

Just did.Check yours now.

D

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 11:33 AM

David: I have a few songs coming (going) your way. Check yer e-mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: David C. Carter
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 11:32 AM

Well,there is Jeff & Vida,you can see them on Youtube.

I'm checking out others right now.


David

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 11:11 AM

I am ashamed to say that I never realized the beauty of a well-played mandolin until recently. I ain't too old to learn, but I just don't have the time. Can anyone suggest people I should listen to?

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Stu
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 11:06 AM

Started out playing bodhran years ago, but wanted something more tuneful so now stick to bouzouki and mandolin. Just picked up a nice handmade f-hole mandolin by Tom Wilkes whilst out in the Great Smokies of North Carolina a couple of weeks back.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: David C. Carter
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 10:57 AM

Thanks 9,you know I do me best!


David

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Bettynh
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 10:09 AM

When I chased down Alan Block for my sandals (a bit of a story there) and confessed that I didn't perform, he said "Without an audience I'm out of a job. We need you." That made me feel better, and it's still a comfort.

I took piano lessons, sang in the chuch choir, and was a Girl Scout in camps where there was lots of singing. When Pete Seeger sang on Boston Common in 1963, my dad made a reel-to-reel recording, and we added many of those songs to the Girl Scout singing. I went off to college in 1966 and my roomie was the daughter of Joan Baez's manager, getting us into some great concerts free. She told me about Child ballads. And later, after hearing about it on NPR, I made several trips with my kids to Jonesborough, TN for the National Storytelling Festival. When I found Mudcat online, I felt right at home.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 08:16 AM

Yeah, Mark, we definitely connected in our love of Son House...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 06:08 AM

AND you do it well, David.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: David C. Carter
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 04:40 AM

I scribble a bit on anything lying around,scrape a guitar,huff and puff on harmonica and sing through the face.

David

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 02:20 AM

GfS: "I thought Bobert was referring to the skin flute player...."

Bobert: "You need to have a little talk with yer shrink, GfinS... Tell him or her about the polymorphous perverse quilt thing that you got going on..."

Perverse??????? Welcome to the club!! Be careful though...you might be called a 'bigot' and 'homophobic' by your compatriots!

Ooops..Bobert did an Freudian slip of honesty....

Busted!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: MarkS
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:09 PM

Guitar only and love to do covers of the old timey bluesmen. Particularly like Son House.
Thats my psychic connection to Bobert!
Oh, and I may be the only guy left who still covers Woody!
Problem is, do not gig very much these days and I am usually not around enough during the week to participate in local groups.
Maybe after I retire if I can ever afford to!
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:09 PM

PDQ's music knowledge is fantastic. And his taste in it is wonderful. In fact, I'll be receiving another CD from him after the election results are in. Looking forward to that. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 09:59 PM

You need to have a little talk with yer shrink, GfinS... Tell him or her about the polymorphous perverse quilt thing that you got going on... Ain't no drugs for it... Gonna take some psycho-therapy, i.e. counseling to get ya' thru it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 08:56 PM

I thought Bobert was referring to the skin flute player....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 08:24 PM

Just got an okay...

It's pdq who used to play music but ain't doin' it these days...

But, not matter... This thread ain't about pdq... It's about everyone...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 07:57 PM

Oh, come on, ya'll... I'll pm ____ and see if it's okay to reveal him/her but, really, this ain't about him/her...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 07:52 PM

Is it I, Lord, asked two dozen...?

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 07:43 PM

Chongz is an organ grinder, Jack... lol...

Nah, I didn't have anyone in mind at all... It's just something that I was curious about after learning that _______ was not a musican.... I won't use his/her name but if he/she wants to then fine... I'm not trying to smoke anyone out here... Just curious...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 07:38 PM

I'm curious which Mudcatter Bobert was referring to in the first post - who he thought was a musician but wasn't.

Chongo?

Me, I play recorders a lot and many other woodwinds, Middle Eastern strings and percussion a bit. Mainly Scottish, klezmer and Turkish music and mainly in sessions. On the desk beside this computer I have a singing bowl (makes a nice alternative to computer noises), a small Arabic pottery bongo/kettledrum I use to play rhythms along with things on YouTube, and on the floor beside me, a mandolin which I have just discovered I might be able to make friends with if I use Arabic violin tuning (GDGD) - I never got anywhere with standardly tuned ones. My newest late night not-disturbing-the-neighbours instrument is a 2.4 (low, baseball-bat-sized) shakuhachi, which I will never be any good on but it makes great practice in flute embouchure.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: ollaimh
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 07:07 PM

i have long found the intstrumentally challenged to be greatly challenged in many ways.especially when they are hang arounds at folk scenes.many think, if i can't play i can lead.

i play celtic harp, cittern/bouzouki, mandolin and guitar a lot. i paly lute saz lavta and dulcimer a bit, and several others occasionally.

i used to busk gig and practice five to ten hours a day but now i'm retired. and loving it.

i sing as well. if you want to keep your voice you have to give up cafine alcohol and smoking. at least for most people. i still have a voice that moves professionals. howevert at sixty i can't hit the falsetto i had when i was young.

when i stopped busking every day i was elated to be able to drink coffee and tea again!! in the morning it will not affect your afternoon and evening voiv=ce so much. i havent smoked or drunk alcohol for years.

i find the instrumentally challenged and incompetent to usually be intolerant as well. hence my scorn

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 06:48 PM

Alaways had music, sung with mum, dad played banjo, mandolin, mouthorgan. Gran had a piano with old sheet music in the stool that I leaned the notes from. Started on the mandolin when about 12 , then guitar in the 60's with Donegan stuff then stuff from the Lomax American song book. Married, sang with guitar to kids and then not much for about 30 odd years. Came back to guitar about 5 years ago and learned how to be me. Just got confident now to stand up, sing and play at singers nights or floor spots with guitar or bouzouki (Gazuki) but no, not a musician! Nice that a few of the kids play too.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: JennieG
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 06:26 PM

Well......I can sing a little, and play guitar a little (have two guitars) and am getting into playing ukulele.....that is, when we return from our Canadian holiday I will get back to playing said instruments and resume choir practices.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 04:48 PM

Perhaps the more relevant thing is whether people have any actual interest in the music, as evidenced by our posting history.

When that isn't present they aren't really here.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: gnu
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 03:15 PM

Beer and sIx... my heart goes out to yas. That's gotta suck for youse. Never heard you, sIx, but I was entertained by Beer in my house a while back and his loss is a shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Bert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:56 PM

I'm a singer/songwriter and pretend to play the guitar.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: BrendanB
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:58 PM

And hammer dulcimer, how the hell did I forget that...?

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:55 PM

...perform, produce and post....the three 'P's....I could add two more, but pooping and peeing is almost common, I hear...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:11 PM

cello,gamba,mandolin, bass and the vertical violin and viola.

I used to play the French Horn but a lip disection from a 9 iron ended that.

I also play the zither and auto harp with Debussy like tonalities.
I found that a resonant "sound box" table, bathtub, or by placing the harp atop a marimba resonant chamber can more than double the sound of the tiny harps.

While I have a keyboard and tonal percussion instruments the difficulty I have encountered trying to play them my whole life
long might somehow be connected to dyslexic challenges.

octave violins sound great. Have you heard willie and lobo and other latin groups use them with profound effect?


Hey bearded one, How about a "flute cello". First you drill the neck close to the finger board to create a recorder. The Whistle segment is in the pegbox behind the nut and the finger holes are between the D and G string right through the ebony. The bottom of the tenor recorder exits under the finger board. You blow in a clear poly vinyl tube that connects under the scroll near the nut.

I've also transformed 4 string to 5 string violins and altered normal violins to octave violins. Mostly I have unique inventions for enhancing the sound of string instruments by using ultra low density materials strategicly and by maximizing the lateral plate vibration by tuning the bass side edge thin and altering the stiffness of the bass bar progressively. Some of what I learded from the Vuillume French school and an Italian family from the 20th century is respondsible for doubling the power of sound but the rest came from my own analysis of the rocking directions of the top plate, the physics of sound conduction regarding frequency vs density of the carrier material and the importance of the center bouts.


Warning free advice ahead...


Without getting into new 21st century materials the best way to go is with a top plate of low density wide grained "microscopically hollow" but stiff wood, free to move more on the bass side and less on the treble side.   The back plate is best when very stiff to focus sound like a radio telescope or a speaker cabinet, and the ribs thin enough to release all the frequencies that the top can not. Of course tuning the plates with half step complexity is an old and crucial art.

*interesting observation*
To create an image of a double helix, take a good glossy Strad model violin and reflect sunlight on a nearby surface.

With my remission from arthritis I can now make a half dozen more ultra modern respondsive instruments and do what I hate...Sanding sanding sanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 11:54 AM

Electric Guitarist & keyboard Synthesizer player since the mid 70s...

If it's got strings or keys, knobs, faders and switches I'll have a bash at getting a 'musical' sound out of it.

I tried clarinet but was shit at it..

I'm also rubbish with recorders so sadly will never be any good at bagpipes...

My playing skills & abilities are too variable, inconsistent and unpredictable
to have ever stood any chance at a full time career as a 'pro' jobbing musician.

But on some occasions in the last 35 years I've been in bands
that had minor brushes with recording contracts
and media attention.

In so many ways I'm glad I was never in a band that 'made it'
because there's no way I have the constitution & genial disposition
to be arsed getting up early in the morning to do promo spots
on Breakfast TV shows..

..let alone being cooped up in an uncomfortable minibus touring for months on end.

I like my own bed & and bathroom too much..

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 11:04 AM

Write and sing Folk songs... sing anything really.. Play Harmonica, penny whistle, Smokey Mountain Strumstick and pan pipes.   Some of my songs are on this page :-    Mikes Songs/facebook page.    Scroll down on page for the individual songs. Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:49 AM

I play and occasionally teach guitar, bass, ukulele and some random fretted ethnic instruments. I was a folksinger once, and have played in bands of one type or another over the years-at lot of folk and ethnic dance stuff,but also club dates and casuals. I write and arrange sometimes, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,BrendanB
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 09:52 AM

Bouzouki, bodhran and guitar and vocals. Play in a trio with melodeon and flute. Play in a celidh band with concertina, melodeon and keyboards (I'm also the caller). Sing in a folk choir.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 09:25 AM

I sing among folkies now and then, and that's it.

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: beardedbruce
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 09:14 AM

" I know that beardedbruce is a collector of instruments and buys and sells 'um...

Also I ( am learning to) repair and modify instruments ( violins and violas these days- I just sold another chin cello and an octave violin), sing in the chorus, and occasionally do Alan Sherman and Tom Lehrer songs. I've written a few parodies ( two in the DB) but mostly write sonnets.

But mostly I listen.

8-{E

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:41 AM

I love singing & sing along with choruses as I can't hold a tune on my own. But I have on 2 occasions sung in a session - once with the 2 friends (both good singers) sitting beside me, once on my own in a very small session.

I also run a folk club famous for it's beautiful acoustic space, singing performers & singing audience.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Below the Line... Musicians or not???
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:18 AM

The only thing, other than my wife, that I will never give up is the music.

In preparation for the day when the voice fails to report for duty, I've been improving my guitar skills playing rhythm at diddly sessions.

And when the arthritis in my hands gets too bad, I'll be wheeled in as a listener.

Don T.