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BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 23 Oct 14 - 10:00 PM This morning I went to an author talk about this book.http://www.amazon.com/Rescue-Bounty-Disaster-Survival-Superstorm/dp/147674663X I have not read the book, but the author seemed to have done a lot of research. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bob Bolton Date: 26 Feb 13 - 08:57 PM G'day Charley, Thanks for that! I've just accessed an entry on the various 'film replicas' and the one I saw, for a number of years in Sydney was a rather metallic Bounty! This is its history panel: "A second Bounty replica, named HMAV Bounty, was built in New Zealand in 1979 and used in the 1984 Dino De Laurentiis film The Bounty. The hull is constructed of welded steel oversheathed with timber. For many years she served the tourist excursion market from Darling Harbour, Sydney, Australia, before being sold to HKR International Limited in October 2007. She is now a tourist attraction (also used for charter, excursions and sail training) based in Discovery Bay, on Lantau Island in Hong Kong, and has an additional Chinese name." Your fully wood construction "Bounty" is, in many respects, a far greater loss! Regards, Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Feb 13 - 07:48 PM Bob- I think that ship in Sydney Harbour was a different Bounty. There is another summary at gCaptain Facebook Forum of the 8th day of testimony and questioning. No new revelations. But Mario Vitonne observed that the professional crew, the officers, were much more circumspect in their answers than the deckhands. The truth, so to speak, will take a longer period of time to surface. There is a vivid description of how it was to be working in the engine room with the water rising around one, trying to keep the generators going to operate the pumps, as various electrical components died a fiery death. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bob Bolton Date: 25 Feb 13 - 11:34 PM G'day Charlie, It's been very saddening to read all the saga of the loss of this lovely ship and the loss of lives. She used to operate in Sydney ... doing tourist runs - mainly around the Harbour. I can remember using her, while moored, as a backdrop to some promotional photos of one of our 'Colonial Dancing' groups ... some years back! A high-school classmate of my youngest brother - who also is a workmate to me in what is now called Ausgrid ... Sydney's main electricity distributor used to crew on her ... Regards, Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Greg F. Date: 24 Feb 13 - 05:32 PM We'll never know what Captain Walbridge was thinking Its rather patently obvious that the Cap'n WASN'T thinking, period, and that's what led to this disaster. Never misunderestimate the power of hubris & stupidity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 24 Feb 13 - 05:23 PM There was some testimony from crew members at the inquiry that Captain Walbridge was injured as the Bounty began her last serious of abrupt rolls. He was seen to get up from the deck again but that was the last time he was seen. I was told by retired Coast Guard officer Mario Vittone that it would be weeks if not months before the Coast Guard Panel released its conclusions. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Feb 13 - 01:27 PM I wouldn't be surprised if his last decision was to go down with the ship and he purposely let himself slip away. Yeah.......I had that thought and I'm willing to bet it has been in the minds of those doing the investigation as well as most who have follwed the case. Yet again, another thing we may never know. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 24 Feb 13 - 10:46 AM We'll never know what Captain Walbridge was thinking or what pressures the owners or his conscience were putting on him. Knowing what he did about the ship's condition and risking his crew was totally reprehensible and irresponsible. I wouldn't be surprised if his last decision was to go down with the ship and he purposely let himself slip away. It's a very sad story all the way around. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 24 Feb 13 - 10:18 AM The song itself "Never Turn a Blind Eye to the Storm" is now posted above as an ADD LYRIC thread and is also pasted to my Facebook page. The lyrics and a MP3 sample of how I sing it can be found on my website:http://www.charlieipcar.com/ I couldn't agree with Jeri more. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Jeri Date: 24 Feb 13 - 10:06 AM On Charley's song (the chorus is posted above): On Facebook, I wrote The major problem is that turning "a blind eye to the storm" was only the final straw. Maybe you meant it ironically?I've been in organizations with all sorts of leaders. Ones who want to be liked and aren't big on boat-rocking are dangerous. You can have an ignorant boss with an experienced crew, and it works if they listen to each other. You can have an experienced boss with an ignorant crew, and it works if they listen to each other. Somebody needed to challenge the way things were being done, but if the captain didn't know, and the crew didn't know, who should it have been. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: catspaw49 Date: 24 Feb 13 - 09:18 AM Fossil.......I would tend to agree but I can't quite relegate all of the other factors to a sideshow. Going out at all was an error of tragic proportion and I doubt we find out why as the man who made the decision is dead. He too may have been responsible for the other problems but I think that warrants more investigation to find if there was pressure from the ownership. The experience factor of the crew and their actual knowledge of their jobs and their ability to perform them is very troubling. While training new people in the skills needed is an important task, sailing with an entire crew (almost) of newbies to that world is a plan for failure. Attraction versus sailing ship is a problem. Just too many others to mention........None as critical as going out into the storm but one helluva' large sideshow! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: GUEST,Fossil at work Date: 24 Feb 13 - 02:53 AM I've been reading the news of the enquiry and the stories coming out of it with increasing incredulity. Any sailor - particularly those who go out on the deep waters - has a healthy fear of the sea and its power. Just be out in one big storm, realise the truth in the old prayer "Oh Lord, the sea is so big and my boat is so small...." and you will never take chances again. How did this get short-circuited in the case of the Bounty? The ship had sailed through a lot of bad weather in its time and this might have contributed to the feeling of invincibilty which was the captain's undoing. I nevertheless have the feeling that the rotten framing, the use of household products to caulk the seams, all this is a sideshow. The seas the Bounty sailed into were more than capable of sinking her, even if she had just come new from the maker's yard. It was the decision to sail out into the hurricane that sealed her fate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Feb 13 - 09:25 PM Linn- Those are the critical questions. They may explain why Captain Walbridge felt he had to set sail late Thursday afternoon and make it to St. Petersburg in time to meet the new donors who might bail out the Bounty. Or not! We just don't know why he made such an incomprehensible decision. "Safer at sea in a storm" just doesn't cut it, given the rotted frames of the Bounty and the competence of the crew as a whole; the engineer was a critical new hire and was not a licensed engineer; at the Coast Guard Inquiry he was unable to explain how the basic systems of the ship were supposed to work! My song "Never Turn a Blind Eye to the Storm" is posted above. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 23 Feb 13 - 08:04 PM The Bounty was classified as a "wharfside attraction" rather than as a passenger-carrying tall ship. She was thus able to avoid more stringent Coast Guard licensing regulations. She was considered a "private yacht" when traveling from one port to another. The consequences of this "shellgame" finally caught up with her, as it will with many of the other vintage tall-ships which engage in similar efforts to circumvent basic safety regulations. Soo...it was pretty obvious they were operating on a shoestring. She's been for sale since 2010. Who are the owners? What were their orders to the captain about the maintenance of the ship? Who profits from taking the risks? And there were so MANY risks, even under the best of conditions. Merde! Tom and I were out in the middle of the Piscataqua on her a couple years ago! Two people died and the ship is lost. But what of the owners? Ach! Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 23 Feb 13 - 05:28 PM I hope so! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Feb 13 - 01:28 PM Spaw- We are in total agreement on this one. Here's the final summary of the Coast Guard Bounty hearing by retired Coast Guard officer Mario Vittone: click for update! This is a Facebook link to a professional mariner's Forum. Vittone shows a lot of compassion for the Bounty crew members but he refuses to turn a blind eye to their lack of experience and rigorous training, or the aging condition of the ship and its equipment. The conclusions by the Coast Guard board should be similar. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Feb 13 - 01:02 PM Charley and I had some early conversations on this but it must have been a different thread or on FB because I don't see them here. In any case, I've been following this case and feel pretty ready to issue my own judgement........I am surprised that this ship was still afloat to even try to act so stupidly with! What sunk Bounty started awhile back with the Captain's ego and the owner's lack of care. I guess the Captain was a nice guy who enjoyed the training of rookies into the world of sailing and specifically sailing tall, wooden, boats. That's very nice and even admirable. But the majority of them lacked any wooden boat experience and also most lacked any tall ship experience. To take such a crew as he had out into a storm when he didn't have to do so? I'd say that was insane. Even more insane is to take a boat in such bad condition as Bounty into a storm unnecessarily. To do both? The mind boggles. All I can figure is he must have believed himself invincible and I know of no one with any sailing experience at all who believes that........And let's recall the biggest mistake of all was something most of us know which is you choose life over death and your crew over a boat. Even if the Bounty had been perfect, he should never have left port. The idea of so many lost for no good reason and to put the CG recuers in jeopardy............There's a bit of insanity in this somewhere............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: EBarnacle Date: 23 Feb 13 - 09:43 AM I believe that Slocum said it best: Any vessel which makes port can thank the mercies of divine providence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Amos Date: 20 Feb 13 - 10:50 PM Failing to test shipboard equipment because it might wear out is the ultimate in irrational tomfoolery. That's exactly why you DO test them!! Jaysus!!!! I would have had these barnacle-suckers scraping paint in the bilge, if they tried that nonsense. I swan! Either that or transferred to hand-copying office-supply invoices in the shore office. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 20 Feb 13 - 08:06 PM . . . and still worse. This had better not happen to the Charles W. Morgan! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 20 Feb 13 - 05:26 PM Here's the chorus that I've been working on for a song "Never Turn a Blind Eye to the Storm" about this sad sinking (Copy and paste into WORD/TIMES/12 to line up chords): Chorus: C--------------D------------------G------Em Never turn a blind eye to the storm, I say; ------C------------D--------------------Em----------------D The sea is unfor-giving and she'll snatch your life a-way; C--------------------D-----------------------Em Learn your trade, weigh the risks, and you'll see better days, ---------C-----D------------------Em Never turn a blind eye to the storm, ---------C-----D------------------G Never turn a blind eye to the storm! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 19 Feb 13 - 08:09 AM Here's a link to the 5th day of testimony via g-Captain titled "Sins of Omission": click for update! Evidently is was common practice not to test the regular pumps or their back-ups before going to sea, for concern about "wearing them out." The failure of the pumps and the crew's inability to get the back-up pumps top work were critical factors in the sinking of the Bounty. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 19 Feb 13 - 07:59 AM "Who put these fools in charge of this ship, anyway?" The Captain and he's no longer around to answer that question. The Bounty was classified as a "wharfside attraction" rather than as a passenger-carrying tall ship. She was thus able to avoid more stringent Coast Guard licensing regulations. She was considered a "private yacht" when traveling from one port to another. The consequences of this "shellgame" finally caught up with her, as it will with many of the other vintage tall-ships which engage in similar efforts to circumvent basic safety regulations. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 18 Feb 13 - 03:53 PM It just gets worse doesn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Greg F. Date: 18 Feb 13 - 02:15 PM Household glazing? - One more vote for being idiots..... who put these fools in charge of this ship, anyway? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Pete Jennings Date: 18 Feb 13 - 12:56 PM They used a household glazing compound to caulk an ocean-going timber ship?!! DAP 33 doesn't sound like a suitable product for caulking... Any old sea dogs here? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 17 Feb 13 - 07:13 PM Here's a link to Day 4 of the hearings as summarized on the g-Captain Forum: click here for update! The third mate and bosun were being questioned. Evidently neither had the experience and training to do their job of maintaining the integrity of the hull during repairs. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 17 Feb 13 - 02:23 PM The hearing has already revealed some interesting information. I wonder what is to come. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Greg F. Date: 17 Feb 13 - 10:28 AM Then he had the bad judgment to take such a ship out to sea when there was a well-publicized hurricane coming...Finally, he made the fatally bad decision to try to cross in front of this advancing hurricane Well, that qualifies him as an idiot in my book, Charley, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't criminally negilgent as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 16 Feb 13 - 12:14 PM No, I don't think the Captain was an idiot. But he was willing to turn a blind eye to documented conditions on his ship which compromised her safety. Then he had the bad judgment to take such a ship out to sea when there was a well-publicized hurricane coming in from the South. Finally, he made the fatally bad decision to try to cross in front of this advancing hurricane. Calling the Captain an idiot lets him off too lightly, in my opinion. He may well have been criminally negligent. I expect a very harsh judgement from the Coast Guard Inquiry Board. And I would hope that former Bounty crew members and other vintage ship crew members would not turn a blind eye to the lessons that should be learned from this unnecessary disaster. I may come up with an angry song, finally, and it may well be titled "Turning a Blind Eye to the Storm." There's already a fine ballad titled "Bounty Farewell." Charley Noble, still on his rant |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Amos Date: 16 Feb 13 - 01:03 AM IF he was an eejit, which is certainly wihtin the realm of the possible, he is most likely a dead eejit. Unless he washed ashore in Belize and decoded to change his name. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 15 Feb 13 - 11:24 PM Yes, thank you. I am still following this thread but waiting for more testimony. Hindsight is better than foresight, and I hate second-guessing, but . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ClaireBear Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:02 PM Fascinating, Charley. Thank you for the link! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Greg F. Date: 15 Feb 13 - 06:10 PM It would seem to be fairly obvious from the get-go back in October that the captain is an idiot. Pretty much sums up the disaster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 15 Feb 13 - 09:06 AM Here's the link to g-Captain's summary of the testimony from the Boothbay Shipyard foreman about rotten framing: click here for update! There's also damning testimony from the insurance surveyor who appears to have had an all too cozy relationship with the Captain, and only inspected the ship in Boothbay from the outside after she was relaunched. I am getting more and more angry and depressed by the mismanagement of this vintage ship. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Bat Goddess Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:50 AM Didn't see this thread in the limited Mudcat time I have. Even if I had, there was nothing really to say at that point. I find it especially disturbing, though, that rotted hull planking was ignored and just painted over. Linn |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: vectis Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:34 AM Shades of Marquese here I reckon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:19 AM I was just feeling especially grumpy yesterday after a hard day's work. The rest of this story I feel will be important, even if it is not completed until months after the event. There was testimony yesterday by shipyard workers in Boothbay saying that they had discovered additional rotting planking in the hull during the month long renovation, and that the Captain ignored their findings and ordered the crew to just paint over the planking. The Mate has also testified that the Captain had rejected several appeals to abandon ship before finally conceding that the ship had to be abandoned, and then it proved too late to properly abandon the ship. The ship heeled over and the Captain some crew members were flung in the water, three never making it to the life rafts (one was rescued later by the Coast Guard helicopter crew). Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Amos Date: 15 Feb 13 - 01:15 AM The core issue was the Captain's decision to outrun a storm that was already on record as being unusually ferocious. It will be interesting to see if their were any issues with their refit, scantlings or other compliance issues. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:43 PM Charley, don't count us 'Catters out so quickly. You posted on Wednesday after I'd finished with all the BS threads (but not necessarily the music threads), and tonight I have just found this. It will be interesting to follow this story. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Jeri Date: 14 Feb 13 - 10:05 PM I'm interested in the "rest of this story", but that doesn't mean I have anything to say about an investigation that's just begun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:28 PM Rant alert! I probably shouldn't be surprised that Mudcatters lack interest in the rest of this story, after the prime time media has also shifted its attention to other news-breakers. However, I am still disappointed. But there is still interest manifest in other forums such as g-Captain, Wooden Boat, and Historic Ships. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 13 Feb 13 - 10:04 PM The formal inquiry has begun: Click here for update! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:29 AM ChanteyLass- Interesting story and haunting photo. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: ChanteyLass Date: 16 Nov 12 - 09:32 AM And here is news of the remains of an old shipwreck on Fire Island. The remains of the ship were exposed by Hurricane Sandy. http://news.yahoo.com/hurricane-sandy-exposes-fire-island-shipwreck-215513409.html;_ylt=A2KLOzJyTaZQUgMAbavQtDMD |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Peter Kasin Date: 15 Nov 12 - 12:43 AM The Bounty holds a special place in my heart as this was my first ship, crewing aboard her in the summer, 1991. My deepest sympathy for the families of the captain and crew member lost, and to all her crew. Long may the Bounty be remembered for inspiring her many crew members over years. -Chanteyranger |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Nov 12 - 10:07 PM That's why I get excited when a group drags a derelict such as the barque James Craig from the mudflats of Tasmania, tows her back to Sydney Harbour, totally rebuilds her, and then periodically sails her. I helps start the first sea music sessions aboard her and today I learned they just held another. Wish I could have been there! The Mystic Seaport Museum is in the process of totally rebuilding the whaling bark Charles W. Morgan and when she's finished they plan to sail her back to New Bedford for a revisit; the last time she was there was a hundred or so years ago! And it is sad when one of these beautiful sailing ships goes down, taking all the hopes and dreams with her of those who loved her best. And sadder still when the captain in the case of the Bounty takes unnecessary risks and miscalculates. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: gnu Date: 14 Nov 12 - 06:32 PM Well said, LEJ... she did. All the souls of those that built her and sailed her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Lonesome EJ Date: 14 Nov 12 - 03:44 PM Charley, there are indeed many, many photos and paintings of the ship, probably mainly due to promotions of her as a tourist attraction, but also because something about the Bounty seemed to capture a lost sense of adventure and freedom that you just don't see in a powered seacraft. Looking at the many photos, I was impressed with the craftsmanship given to her building and decoration, and her graceful appearance under sail, and even at anchor. A thing that has the handwork of so many humans in it seems to take on a human aspect of its own. She looked as though she had a soul. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm! From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Nov 12 - 03:21 PM EJ- I note that Spalink also did a good job of harvesting photos for his slide show, including some that you used. Charley Noble |
