BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Oct 12 - 08:26 AM

Here's a more detailed news summary describing what happened: Click here for update!

There is still a conflict in reports with regard to which side of the hurricane the Bounty's captain was attempting to skirt, west versus east, but all agree she sank 90 miles east of Cape Hatteras, Monday.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 31 Oct 12 - 07:38 AM

In terms of the total destruction caused by the storm, this is minor but it is sad when one of the few remaining period (albeit replica) tall ships is lost, especially with loss of life.

RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: GUEST,skivee, guesting in
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 11:10 PM

This is such a sad day for the tallship community>

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Fossil
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 09:53 PM

Oh I wasn't suggesting that hatch covers were the problem that caused the Bounty to founder: there could be many explanations. I was just trying to explain the term "battening down" for the benefit of non-nautical members of the forum.

I did note that one of the pictures of the vessel taken before the accident showed the wide expanse of stern windows typical of vessels of the era the Bounty replica was emulating. I'm sure they would have had "deadlights" (solid covers) fixed over these windows, but many yachts in severe storms have had deadlghts stove in by the force of the sea. Something similar could have happened if the ship was running before the storm, and once the windows were broken there would be waves from the following sea washing straight through - it wouldn't take long after that for the ship to fill up.

But I really don't know what was the exact cause, though doubtless a serious effort will be made to find out.

The power of the ocean in a storm like this one makes a sobering thought for those of us who do go out on the ocean. In the Sydney - Hobart Race disaster a few years back, modern, well-found racing yachts with experienced crews were rolled by giant waves, masts broken, cabin tops ripped off and even when survivors took to their life rafts, the rafts themselves were ripped apart by the force of the sea. At least this didn't happen with the Bounty and all the crew bar two were rescued, thanks to their survival suits and life rafts - this we must be thankful for.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 08:59 PM

Fossil-

The survivors should have some clue as to where the water was coming that overwhelmed the pumps and the generators. We just have to be patient for a more complete explanation.

With a strong following sea, the Bounty would have been subjected to severe corkscrewing stress which could have opened up her seams, letting water in. Alternatively one of the overboard discharge valves that failed, or a hatch that failed as you suggest, might have done her in.

The Bounty, as I think I've mentioned above, was completely rebuilt below the waterline in 2006-2007, and had undergone more repair work for a month in the same yard in Maine in September of this year. She should have been in good condition, for a 50-year ship.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Fossil
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 05:47 PM

"Battening down the hatches" was the practice aboard old-time sailing ships when bad weather was expected.

Hatches are large openings in the deck through which cargo and stores are loaded aboard. On wooden ships, the hatch covers were planks, which are not watertight. So the planks were covered with oiled canvas, and to prevent the canvas coming off in the gale, long wooden strips (battens) were placed over it and nailed down.

Of course, once the hatches were battened down like this, you couldn't use the hatchway, which is why this was only done when extreme safety precautions were considered necessary.

Modern steel ships have waterproof steel hatch covers, so battening down is not necessary. I have no idea whether Bounty had large hatches requiring battening or not. Probably not, since I'm sure modern technology would have provided it with waterproof covers anyway. Which may be why, in the aerial photos, the hull still seems to be semi-afloat, if waterlogged.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 05:23 PM

Charley, I don't want to cast any aspersions on the seamanship of the captain, or the owners' concern for financial commitments. And I am not a seaman of the caliber of Amos, or Kendall, or many others on this forum. I simply feel that, with a storm on the way that could have delayed Bounty's commitments for a substantial and undetermined period, in addition to the real possibility of sustaining damage while holed up in a harbor in the North, further delaying departure, a decision might well have been reached to make a run for Florida, a decision that ended in tragedy. I am sure more will come out regarding the reasons for the disaster. I doubt the captain would have made such a decision on his own.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 05:10 PM

gnu-

So true.

Lonesome EJ-

There may have been some pressure from management to be down in St. Petersburg for the special tall ship's event the week after. We'll never know. I'm still trying to puzzle out why the captain decided to try to skirt around the western edge of the storm rather than the eastern edge; that's evidently how the ship sank at its present location, just 90 miles off Cape Hatteras. Skirting west would have been faster but more risky, and if the bilge pumps failed, the generators failed, and the engines failed, the hurricane would have been right on them (and the hurricane doubled its pace as it closed on the shore)...

All so much speculation and there are more qualified sailors on this forum to do such speculation than me.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 04:47 PM

If a more secure harbor was the concern, sailing North along the coast could have easily worked. My guess is that, the Bounty being a perennial tourist attraction for the Winter season in St Petersburg, the unfortunate decision to head south was made based at least partially on financial commitments to the Florida venue.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: gnu
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 04:06 PM

Those pics are rough to look at, Charley.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: EBarnacle
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 03:46 PM

There is an old saying that the time to reef is when you first think of it. A corrolary to this is: Don't sail into the teeth of a storm that you know is coming. You can have many jobs but you have only one life. It was a [probably fatal] case of misjudgement.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 03:42 PM

Q

"Sometimes these threads have a light moment amid the tragic."

"Thanks for the lighter moment, " says Charley Noble, examining the weather gauge with his beady eye and taping the compass upon the taffrail.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 01:59 PM

Gee whilikers and Gosh all Jehosophat! Humor not permissible?

Of course batten, dense ones, but tbe image conjured up by 'baton' is interesting.
Picture a chantey leader having the crew baton down the hatches. A whole new chantey could be in order.

Batons up, bullies,
As the wave rises,
Hey!

Batons down, bullies,
As the wave sets,
Whack!
------------------

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 01:17 PM

Batten. Not baton.

Quiet! ;>)>

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 01:13 PM

Batten. Not baton.
=(:-( l)

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 01:04 PM

Sometimes these threads have a light moment amid the tragic.

Up above someone recommended "baton down the hatches." Was this an old ships custom when a storm approached?

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 10:27 AM

Here's a link to a grim set of photos of the HMS Bounty actually sinking: Click here for photos!

Thanks to the hard work of the Coast Guard almost all of the crew members were saved.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 09:42 AM

Here's a critical assessment of the HMS Bounty sinking by another tall ship captain who decided to remain in Nova Scotia rather than sail south: Click here for story

The captain of the Picton Castle says he can't understand why the Bounty was at sea Monday when a massive hurricane was forecast to hit.

Indeed, Dan Moreland postponed leaving Lunenburg more than a week ago precisely because of hurricane Sandy.

"It was an easy decision to make," he said. "It's black and white, there are no nuances with this. It's a huge system and that made the decision very simple."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 07:51 AM

RIP to those lost at sea.

Historically, over 600 who sailed from the small fishing and shipbuilding community of Lunenburg were lost at sea on 150 ships.
More recently you may recall the capsizing and sinking of the tall ship Concordia off Brazil in February 2010. The ship sank in 18 minutes. Fortunately all 64 survived, but spent 41 hours adrift in the stormy Atlantic.

Tall Ship Concordia


Lunenburg, sailing ships and the sea

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 07:49 AM

Here's a more detailed update from the Washington Post of the ship's last moments and the rescue efforts: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tall-ship-hms-bounty-sinks-off-nc-coast-two-still-missing/2012/10/29/d276daf8-21d8-11e2-8448

Actually this link didn't work when I just tested it; they may be doing further updates to the story.

There are still some unanswered questions but the drama is now over.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 07:23 AM

Some ship info:

Statistics

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Oct 12 - 06:43 AM

Nice video of the ship in rough seas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI4Jh5_woT0

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:09 PM

BAD LUCK To sail with a woman on board...even Capt. Sparrow could tell you THAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:32 PM

Sorry to hear.
=(:-( l)

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:25 PM

Yes, the death of Claudene Christian has now been confirmed from several sources. So sad. A miraculous survival would have been such heartening news.

There are stories that suggest she was actually related to Fletcher Christian of the original mutiny on the Bounty. But maybe that's all wistful reportage.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: bobad
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 10:24 PM

UPDATE: Missing crew member, Claudene Christian, 42, was pulled from the water unconscious and later confirmed dead by the Coast Guard. Captain Robin Walbridge is still missing.

CBC News is reporting: Claudia McCann, whose husband Robin Walbridge is the captain of the Bounty, told CBC News her husband is one of the two missing crew members. CBC News has learned the other missing crew member is Claudene Christian.

Claudene Christian is reported to be a distant relative of Fletcher Christian, the original Master's Mate who seized command of the ship during the mutiny.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:15 PM

It is Atlantic time:

Bounty in pictures
UPDATED 9:52 p.m.

Bounty crew member Claudene Christian died in a Elizabeth City, N.C., hospital after being found by the U.S. Coast Guard on Monday evening.

Hospital officials said Christian, 42, died just before 9:30 p.m. AT after being listed in critical condition upon arrival at the hospital.

A premature report from the U.S. Coast Guard said Christian had died earlier.

"She was unresponsive when we located her," coast guard Petty Officer 1st Class Brandyn Hill said in an interview around 7:15 p.m. Atlantic time.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 09:11 PM

The U.S. Coast Guard has recovered the body of a woman from the HMS Bounty replica sinking.

Claudene Christian, 42, was located by an MH-60 Jayhawk helicopter Monday evening. Her body was taken to Albemarle Hospital in Elizabeth City, N.C. The hospital confirmed the death of Christian to CBC News.



Still no sign of the captain.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:44 PM

What a loss, so damn sad. There are few things as beautiful as a square rigged ship under sail. Or a Brig, or a barque, barquentine or brigantine...The Coast Guard cutter Eagle is a Barque.Gorgeous.
Damn.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:42 PM

**crossing fingers**

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:37 PM

CBC Halifax update at 8 pm:

"Bounty crew member Claudene Christian is in critical condition in an Elizabeth City, N.C., hospital after being found by the U.S. Coast Guard on Monday evening.

An earlier report said Christian, 42, had died."

Maybe there is hope. This story is now confirmed by Reuters.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 08:20 PM

Apparently the decision to sail was made because the risk of the ship being battered to shreds when tied up in a storm surge was deemed greater than the risk of sailing.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: maeve
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 07:43 PM

gnu: '...living close to salt water, knowing freinds and relatives who "go to sea"... that makes some situations more "personal"? '

Not just you, gnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 07:23 PM

Sad news for her family.

The Coast Guard certainly are doing all they possibly can, and maybe even more.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 07:20 PM

CBC reports that Claudene did not survive.

This news will affect many tall ship folks around the world and all their friends.

Captain is still missing.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: gnu
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 06:58 PM

Oh my. I hope she's okay.

I know it may be odd for some to hear my grave concern. It would be the almost same for anyone in any dire straights, but... is it just me? living close to salt water, knowing freinds and relatives who "go to sea"... that makes some situations more "personal"?

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 06:38 PM

I hope she hangs in and improves.

Probably too much of a stretch for her to be somehow related to Fletcher Christian.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: maeve
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 06:20 PM

Just saw this:

"The C-130 Hercules aircraft searched for the two missing crewmembers and a third Jayhawk crew assisted in the search and rescue efforts.

Crews found one of those missing crewmembers Monday around 6 p.m. Officials said 42-year-old Claudene Christian was found unresponsive and taken to a hospital in Albemarle..." Claudene Christian found

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 06:13 PM

Here's an edited video of the helicopter rescue: Click here for video!

The video is embedded in the report.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 05:42 PM

Thanks, maeve, for your update link above.

Here's another update on the captain from his wife:

Captain Robin Walbridge, 63, who worked on the Bounty for 17 years, was one of the missing, said his wife, Claudia McCann.

"That was his passion," McCann said. "He's the best captain in the industry. ... There's not too many captains that can sail that kind of ship (a square-rigger)."

The captain was the last to leave the ship, wearing red survival gear, she said.

"That's the image I have in my head. I'm sure he made sure his crew were all tucked in their life boats before he got off the ship," McCann said.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: maeve
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 05:30 PM

http://www.pressherald.com/news/Crew-of-tall-ship-off-NC-abandons-ship-.html

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:25 PM

Here's another valuable link for expert commentary on this type of disaster from "gCaptain.com": click here for update!

There's more of the story with some images.

Thanks, Henry; it gets real...

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:21 PM

Here's my friend Stephen Smith's interview two years ago with Captain Walbridge, now missing after the sinking of the Bounty --

Walbridge Interview

He's a really enjoyable person to be around, great sense of humor, dealt well with the public.

He's in a survival suit. I certainly hope he and Claudene are rescued.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: gnu
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 02:49 PM

Listened to one of the builders on CBC this AM - 6 od 50 odd are still alive. Interesting.

I pray for the missing.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:33 PM

Insured by LOYDS   OF   LONDON I 'm sure.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

ooppps...guess they went under a few years ahead of the bounty.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:24 PM

I hope they make it.
=(:-( l)

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 01:14 PM

Sad Update:

"Three crew members were washed overboard as they tried to get to two covered life-rafts, said the U.S. Coast Guard. Only one of the three members made it to the life-raft and was among the 14 people hoisted onto helicopters.

Coast Guard officials said the two missing crew members — a man and a woman — are believed to be in cold water survival suits and life-jackets. He said the air search is being plotted based on wind direction and speed, and will be expanded.

Claudia McCann, whose husband Robin Walbridge is the captain of the Bounty, told CBC News her husband is one of the two missing crew members. CBC News has learned the other missing crew member is Claudene Christian."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 12:11 PM

Sailing ships have a tendency to capsize in very strong winds. The normal remedy is to 'send down' the topgallant and topmasts to reduce the top hamper but this might not be possible on the replica Bounty with the small crew available. With the engine out it would be very difficult to keep end on to the wind and Bounty would have have gone beam on to the sea and consequently gone over. Many sailing ships were lost in this way, as indeed were several of our local trawlers in Arctic waterps when the upperworks became iced over.

The original Bounty was built about half a mile from me here in Hull.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:52 AM

The U.S. Coast Guard confirms the loss of HMS Bounty this morning.

A search continues for the persons unaccounted for.

This is "history come alive" in the worst way.

Subject: RE: BS: Tall Ship Bounty Abandoned in Storm!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 11:44 AM

Hurricane force winds extending 175 miles from the eye of this storm Monday morning. (50 mile increase in radius in past day?)

Storm center moving with a ground speed of 18 mph with unpredictable direction today, somewhat slower yesterday.

Ship top speed 10 kt (11.6 mph?).

If the ship was out very far at all when the storm first was reported to be a hazard where they were, there's no visible way it could get to a safe harbor or run out of the path of the storm as they apparently tried to do. The storm has grown in area faster than it's moved, so the "danger zone" is moving significantly faster than the center, and there probably was just no place they could run to.

Reports so far don't give enough information to plot the charts on the situation, but it's plausible enough to assume they were just in a situation where there was no way out.

John