BS: Obama Wins!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 10:08 PM

OK Michael, I'm sorry for having accused you about whining that the election was going to be stolen.

Please accept my apology.

Instead, you whine about how Obama is not perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:45 PM

Ron Davies: I'm still waiting for you to justify what you posted about me. If you cannot, you owe me an apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:39 PM

If every one of those 60,000 African-American votes had gone to Gore, they would have made up just 1/100 of the total number cast: 1%.

Almost certainly still within the margin of error.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:24 PM

Yes, Charley...

I am wrong... It is well beyond being a joke... No wonder Charlie Christ doesn't want to be it's governor ever again... Can't blame him...

b~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:18 PM

Florida is no joke; there is abundance evidence of felonious behavior on the part of State election officials to suppress the Democratic vote. As I've said in the Florida thread the Republicans have officially conceded (so chalk up the 29 Electoral votes) but vote counting is still ongoing. The Obama current margin of victory of 50,000 will probably double to 100,000 if all the outstanding votes are actually counted.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:11 PM

Well, lighter... The day that the Supreme Court stopped the recount started with Bush leading by 500+ votes and with every hour that number was coming down, down, down... Another day and Gore would overtake Bush so the Supremes had to act FAST!!!

And they did... Just hours before Gore overtaking Bush...

Source: "Supreme Injustice" by Alan Dershowitz...

But even before that the Jeb Bush and Katherine Bush had rigged the deck by illegally removing 60,000 African Americans from the voting roles...

Source" "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Palist...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:55 PM

The precise of number of votes that separated Gore and Bush in Florida may never be known, nor are we ever likely to know for certain who won there in 2000.

The tiny margin of victory, no matter who you think it belongs to, is well within the margin of error created by the counting of *six million* ballots cast.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:31 PM

Exactly, TIA...

Florida has become a joke...

Maybe if they can't figure out how to hold an election they should ask the UN to come in and supervise them...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:25 PM

Florida story as of 50 minutes ago (ABC News)
-------------------------------------------------------
"As of Thursday afternoon, Mr Obama had 49.9 per cent of the state-wide vote versus 49.24 per cent for Republican Mitt Romney, according to the Florida Division of Elections.

But two of the three counties where ballots are still being tallied, Broward and Palm Beach, are heavily Democratic.

The third county, Duval, has more registered Democrats than Republicans, but has traditionally leaned Republican in presidential contests."
------------------------------------------------------------

The difference in total votes is still orders of magnitude larger than when Bush won Florida and the Presidency with 537 votes. 537! And a loss in the popular vote.

If that was a mandate and a legitimate presidency, then the Righties need to shut the F%$@ up about the legitimacy of this election.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:28 PM

Yo....

Obama has 303 electoral now... Florida doesn't matter... If Florida and it's washrag crybaby Republican election riggers ever certify it then add 29 more electoral votes to the 303...

Florida is a joke...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:15 PM

I heard that Florida's votes were in and counted and that Obama had won THERE, too! What the hell is going on?

If Florida screws another Democrat out of winning even when he wins the popular vote, then I move we saw Florida loose and set it adrift into the Caribbean!!

No. Into the Bermuda Triangle!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:55 PM

Oh, okay. I thought it was official because Romney's people conceded.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:49 PM

Nah, LH...

I don't think it has been called... NBC News just reported that it's still out... Might be out for weeks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:38 PM

Four more years of incompetency.
=(:-( /)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:25 PM

It's on that other thread, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:24 PM

Where did you get that, LH???

WaPo ain't on to it yet...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 06:14 PM

Obama's officially won Florida now. That makes his map look even better.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 05:54 PM

Is anyone supposed to answer that?

Now we have 2 rhetorical questions! ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 05:42 PM

No one has asked GWB how he feels about Romney's defeat.

Who could possibly give a shit?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 05:26 PM

Well, I don't agree that it was Romney who lost... Yes, as with any campaign it's easy to "Monday morning quarterback" and yes, Romney made mistakes... So did Obama...

Romney shouldn't have let the Obama camp get away with so much Bane Capital/rich guy early... They did the rope-a-dope... Bad move...

Obama shouldn't have let the Repubs repeat "failed stimulus" over and over and should have come prepared to debate in the 1st debate...

What it came down to was swing voters who just felt that Obama cared more about them and that Romney cared tom much about himself...

That's the election as I see it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:53 PM

Unfortunately, they're the Brain-Dead Fundamentalists of the libertarians.

Peace and Love, Bro!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:37 PM

No one has asked GWB how he feels about Romney's defeat. Maybe he was unavailable because of that financial conference in the Cayman Islands.

Sparing ourselves four to eight years of a Romney Administration is something to cheer about. Accomplishing a few more things on the Obama agenda would be even more heartening. Here's hoping for two more Supreme Court judges. Here's hoping for emigration reform. Here's hoping for tax reform which gives relief to the middle class and taxes the rich to provide more of their fair share and closes some of their obvious deduction loopholes. Here's hoping for completion of the withdrawal of our troops from Afghanistan.

That's enough for now.

I'll want more next week!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:30 PM

Maybe what we need are hippies. I have never had a problem with hippies.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:23 PM

The Greens are hippies with a social conscience and no understanding of how politics works.

Or, in some cases, *has* to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 03:18 PM

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful post.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:41 PM

The Greens are the only ones who make sense.
=(:-( ))

Another in a long line of simplistic one liners that convey no useful information or promote constructive dialog.

So who are the Greens, you may ask????

I stole this from Wikepedia:

The Green Party of the United States of America emphasizes environmentalism, non-hierarchical participatory democracy, social justice, respect for diversity, peace, and nonviolence. Their "Ten Key Values,"[1] which are described as non-authoritarian guiding principles, are as follows:

1.Grassroots democracy
2.Social justice and equal opportunity
3.Ecological wisdom
4.Nonviolence
5.Decentralization
6.Community-based economics
7.Feminism and gender equality
8.Respect for diversity
9.Personal and global responsibility
10.Future focus and sustainability
The Green Party does not accept donations from corporations. Thus, the party's platforms and rhetoric critique any corporate influence and control over government, media, and American society at large.


I am sympathetic to their platform... but Ralph Nader's presidential run was unconscionable... he could have run for the senate and not done the damage that he did. Anyone see any improvement in the green cause in the 8 years of G W??? The direct opposite occurred. Way to go, guys. Put the federal government in the hands of big oil interests instead of the guy trying to fight global warming. Dimwits... or egomania on the part of Nader... or both.

Until the Green Party actually becomes a grassroots organization that appears on the local ballots in all the states, I have no use for them. They show up in the national elections... oh look at us, but where the hell are they the rest of the time? I see NOW out there working for justice and they work with system from top to bottom, but the Greens are invisible... unless it's a headline somewhere and then gone again.

I am a professional within the environmental field... I see plenty of effective organizations that have something to show at the end of the day. What I see from the Greens is less than impressive.

And if Mr. Krinkle thinks he is advancing their cause, he is as delusional as the Conservative Right. He is definitely as annoying.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:41 PM

Glad to hear you're willing to give the black man and his team some credit.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:31 PM

Sure, Obama ran a good campaign. I'm simply saying that the Republicans blew it for themselves by appealing to too narrow a sector of the electorate. And I'm pleased that they did blow it in that fashion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:22 PM

"Obama didn't win the election". As usual, simplistic.

I myself quite early pointed out the dinosaur-like behavior of the current GOP, particularly regarding Hispanics.

But the Obama team had to change the narrative from a referendum on him, based on the economy of the past 4 years, to a choice on who voters most trusted to represent them while leading us out of the recession.

They did that successfully--and very early.

Romney tried to make it just the old question:   Are you better off now than 4 years ago?    For many, the answer is no--and that's how they voted.

But Obama and his team deserve a lot of the credit for the win--in changing that focus-and in many other respects.

Certainly Romney's own missteps played a role (e.g. 47%).   But the Obama team was on top of their game, to say to the least--especially in fundraising and getting out the vote.   Their internet approach, for instance--in which I participated--was awesome.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:16 PM

The Greens are the only ones who make sense.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:11 PM

"The Conservative Right scares the spit out of a lot of us and the voter turnout reflected that."

Yeah. That was exactly my point. That's why I would have voted for Obama. Because he isn't a Republican. The Democrats worry me...but the Republicans (as they are now) absolutely horrify me!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 02:03 PM

if the Republicans adopted a more moderate stance and had not spent the past 4 years working against the interests of the American people because they agenda was to make Obama a one term president, then it would have been far less critical to ensure that Romney lost the election. Self preservation on the part of the middle class is a valid reson to vote Democratic.

I have little or no use for organized religion or political parties... and none what so ever for organized crime :) it's all about power or the abuse of power with them for the most part.

but I do differ about the idea of Obama not winning the election...
those added votes he got didn't magically appear... a lot of ground work was spent getting those people registered and motivated to vote.

The Conservative Right scares the spit out of a lot of us and the voter turnout reflected that. If Obama and Romney had more in common on the issues, I'm sure there would have been less of a turnout.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:49 PM

I agree, Stringsinger, that Obama didn't win the election...Romney lost it. Romney lost by thinking that a single declining demographic (conservative old White men) would be enough to get him elected. It isn't enough anymore. It was once, but the country is changing.

If I were an American and could have voted, I could not have voted for Obama with any real enthusiasm, having been very disappointed in him over the last 4 years, despite the high hopes I had for him in 2008...but I WOULD have voted for Obama for one simple reason: to prevent Romney from winning!

The Republican Party has gone so far to the Right that it would appear like a lunatic fringe movement anywhere in the world except in the USA. It's gone right out of touch with reality. If the Republicans want to remain competitive, their only hope is to return to the political center, as they were when they were led by Dwight D. Eisenhower.

The Tea Party folks don't get it. They think the party has to go farther to the Right. That's funny! ;-) If they get their wish, they will simply destroy any chance the Republicans have of ever getting elected again.

As for Obama, he's actually gone far enough to the Right that he basically occupies the same general political ground as Canada's most Rightwing party, the Conservatives. Our other parties are considerably to the Left of Barack Obama. He is a center-right politician by world standards.

And perhaps that is partly why the Republicans have moved SO far to the lunatic Right since the days of Bill Clinton. The Democrats, by moving closer and closer to traditional Republican ground, have left the Republicans almost no place to go except to teeter wildly on the edge of falling completely off the rightwing wall and into the abyss. ;-D

This can be done in a country where so many people equate "socialism" with Communism...and think of "liberal" as a pejorative word.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:47 PM

"ethic background"? Would that be the same kind of thing as "moral backbone"?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:44 PM

Ever notice how Krinkle always signs with a picture of Homer Simpson?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:42 PM

NC--yes, the same one which went for Obama in 2008.    Ingrained attitudes can be overcome--and NC is changing demographically.

And it is not at all clear this election was all about racism pure and simple--even though that is the dearly held and comfortably simple view of so many Mudcatters who don't seem to want to do any research--or think.

Obviously for some race played a role, but the GOP put up the ultimate fat cat and expected that ordinary workers would believe he would represent their interests. To put it mildly, that played a role too.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:33 PM

And meanwhile Florida's 29 electoral votes are still blowing in the wind. Obama doesn't need them to win the Presidency but he's rolled up more than 50,000 votes than Romney by now and Florida officials still won't render a decision. What a disgrace their election system is! Voters waited for hours in line to cast their ballots, days to vote in advance were cut back, and prospective voters were dumped from the voter rolls. Florida should get the remedial attention it deserves.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:28 PM

You all should have voted Green.
I did.
=(:-( ))

suffering from some web induced form of Tourette's Syndrome as you must obviously be, I do hope you find treatment for this obnoxioous affliction.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 01:11 PM

What was your rationale in voting Green, Henry? Turn in your ballot, reduce Obama's share of the vote in a close contest, elect Romney president and thereby save the planet? Just curious.

I love that poem, Lady Jean.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 12:51 PM

Obama didn't win. Romney lost. The people who stood in line for six hours were the real winners. They knew that Romney would bring this country down and that the white boy establishment (yes racist) was trying to buy this election.

This was a referendum on racism in America.

The people and democracy won out over the oligarchs and that's something to be joyful about.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 12:47 PM

You all should have voted Green.
I did.
=(:-( ))

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 12:22 PM

Good old North Carolina! Home of the race-baiting, ignorant poor white Tarheel trash that kept Jesse Helms as a carbuncle on the body politic for all those decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 12:00 PM

As a lifelong socialist, i must say that modern "liberalism" will never make America "great"

A large number of its inhabitants have not yet developed real cynicism, they can make the US FREE and socially healthy, but never equal.    "Equality" means the society of the slowest and weakest.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 11:45 AM

Tia, I wasn't referring to you in particular, I am sure YOU never said anything like it, but the left in general appear to consider people of faith, conservatives, the underclass, the unwashed and uneducated prolotariat etc, to be incapable of any sort of rational thought................unless they happen to be part of the media brainwashed pseudo liberal brigade.
BTW, I do not concur with this view.

I think perhaps I have been a little unkind to you in the past...which I regret.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 10:00 AM

So what the Republicans need to do next time is nominate a "real conservative"? Well, bring it on, and watch your margin of defeat increase to the depths of the abyss!

I note that most Tea Party endorsed US Senate candidates were actually defeated in their races. The outcome in the House races is less clear cut but I'm still hoping that the evident defeat of Rep. Allen West of Florida will survive its recount.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Ed T
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 09:49 AM

""ideally ALL citizens would put policy before ethic background""

Possibly so in an ideal world (which does not exist), but if one feels a kinship and trust with the policies of a candidate because of it, I suspect that is a major consideration to many voters in most countries.

Did this perspective come up as a negative issue when many of the USA Irish supported Kennedy and Regan? I suspect not.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:24 AM

Right, Lighter...

Maybe the Repubs will run the Grand Wizard of the KKK next time???

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 08:13 AM

According to CNN, various Tea Party "officials" are outraged at the election results and blame a sell-out "country-club Republican elite" for picking a "liberal" candidate without "conservative principles."

That kept millions of "real" conservatives from turning out to vote for Romney(I paraphrase).

In other words, the TP was "stabbed in the back." The Tea Party is now (as they put it) "the last best hope for the preservation of American principles."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: gnu
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:51 AM

CBC Radio, live, just now... Lawrence Wilkerson said he voted for Obama. HAD to vote for him. (Paraphrasing) Romney was made into a wishy-washy, flip-flopper with no spine and no leadership by the Tea Party and others.


Holy Crap!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins!!!
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 07:35 AM

"if the American electorate are as dumb as you seem to believe.."

Ake- you really need to read more carefully. This is not at all what I posted.

I was actually saying the (Black) electorate was choosing wisely.

Don't know what the hell you got from it.