BS: A New Tory Iniquity

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 01:11 PM

What is a Tory? A question like that is liable to evoke the kind of language that the Mudcat ought to avoid.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 01:59 PM

LOL Kevin!

Dude, a Tory (properly called a Conservative) is more or less the UK equivalent of your Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 02:15 PM

Even I (who hate conservatives) would admit that our UK conservatives are not quite as barking mad as the US Republicans.

The sharp pointed end of this problem though is that there are a lot of single people or couples either who have not bred or whose children are off hand and pretty well absolutely no social housing for them so if they are economically displaced where can they go?   

There is not much single bedroomed private accommodation either and there has been upward market pressure on rents there too. That wil be intensified. There are limits on rent amounts included in benefits - I found that out when taking in two lodgers who were paid benefits. I was not overcharging them (my house and garden are tolerable) but the benefits would not cover the modest and reasonable rents I was asking.

Now where do the dispossessed go?

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 03:27 PM

It's the kind of policy that might have come out of a brainstorming session.. A lame-brained brainstorm. The consequences just haven't been examined.

I doubt if the people who pushed it through were actually consciously trying to damage society and waste money.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Howard Jones
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 03:27 PM

My comment about Marx was tongue in cheek. Nevertheless, surely the Left should be just as concerned as the Right (perhaps more so) that scarce publicly-owned resources should be allocated fairly, according to need? However this isn't the right way to do it.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 03:43 PM

An Englishman's home is his castle.

Doesn't sound very leftwing does it?

Apparently, judging by the posters here, you can have s million spare bedrooms in your castle and nobody is going to put a huge chip on their shoulder after all.

Not even ex Tories who draw up affidavits whilst pretending to wear flat caps and stuff ferrets down their trousers.

On other matters a sense of humour is important or you may not be worth debating with.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 03:45 PM

Same goes for the 'privately owned' resources which have been ripped off by tax-dodging exploiters.

The truth is there is ample stuff to go around if it was fairly shared out.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 04:07 PM

I wonder how many people here have visited a council estate recently? I know that the demographics have changed HUGELY since I was a kid. As a child my Mum was the only single mum in our court, the rest of the houses were occupied by families. But the reverse is now true. There is virtually no social housing left in the housing estates members of my own family remain in, that's not occupied by single mothers. I'm not quite sure why barring realistically low aspirations among the lower-working classes, but the fact is that very little social housing is under occupied. The tiny minority of tenants who are under-occupying homes, should not be punished for failing to breed - or having done so and had families move on. Cap private rents. Build more social housing. And incentivise young girls - including those with babies or small children - to get educated or trained in something fulfilling.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 04:33 PM

"Council Estate"? What a quaint expression. Didn't the milk snatcher sell them?

Or CS, do you think I don't cross the road from my house into the MHS estate (that used to be council) there on for example Mallard Way, or that I have not walked through the back streets of Crayford and Slade Green (with friends) or walked through the estate lived in by another mudcatter and frequent poster - again now an MHS estate?

Musket, you are an idiot. Remind me again who you used to be. Was it Mither?

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 21 Feb 13 - 02:12 AM

Ok. Guilty as charged. Of course I'm an idiot. When the subject for debate encourages earnest discussion I'll try to reciprocate.

Remind us who you used to be then. A Tory if I'm not mistaken. Not relevant until it is pointed out that the majority of your political posts manage to stereotype and invite hatred of a huge section of the population for that very reason.

I presume they just didn't notice the barbecued donkey on the road to Damascus that managed to enlighten you eh?

I only bait you because I have it on good authority you are supposed to be clever.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Feb 13 - 07:28 AM

You are right Ian. There are only Tories to vote for with a realistic chance of them getting in, since the Labour party these idiots vote for is just another wannabe Tory government in waiting.

They haven't changed, and all the old failed Tories who served under Blair/Brown are still there doing the same thing.

I told them what the answer is, further up the thread, but they were all so busy calling Conservatives every pejorative name they could think of, that they didn't even notice.

It's very simple.

Get together all the fed up voters you can reach (with the internet, that's a lot of people), and start a genuine Socialist Party. Call it that, and make it truly that.

The voters (including me) will queue up to join.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Feb 13 - 07:43 AM

I grew out of having tory views (which had been one-nation tory-left views) in the early 1970s. Fred Teeth was somewhat to the left of the current Labour party, and I was somewhat to the left of him. I have moved steadily left ever since, having seen what conservatism did to people. You see, Mither, I can still learn.

Don, let us know when you find your magic wand. It's usually better to start with the possible. Oh, and let us know when you realise that private landlords are not the answer to council estates. And that you were never a teacher.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Feb 13 - 12:33 PM

""Don, let us know when you find your magic wand. It's usually better to start with the possible. Oh, and let us know when you realise that private landlords are not the answer to council estates. And that you were never a teacher.""

So you think I'm stupid, when you are the one pinning your hopes on a party which you just admitted is to the right of left wing Tories such as myself. CLASSIC!

The founders of the original, socialist, Labour Party weren't deterred by the apparent impossibility of success. They bloody well got down to it and made it work.

Do you have a clue what they would have thought of your response?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Feb 13 - 04:46 PM

Once a council estate, always a council estate.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Feb 13 - 08:44 PM

I suppose that has some kind of meaning in Bonxo's mind... Or possibly not.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Feb 13 - 06:31 AM

Don Thompson. M. Phil in misquotation.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: cujimmy
Date: 22 Feb 13 - 07:47 AM

I think he means Council Estates are full of unwashed unemployed unemployable scum who dont want to work in the first place, who live in luxury at the taxpayers expense, sitting around watching jerremy Kyle all day while drinking cheap cider and beer or taking drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Feb 13 - 08:41 AM

""Don Thompson. M. Phil in misquotation.""

Since you specialise in misquoting and misinterpreting every thing I say, seems only fair.

How do you deal with supercilious prats with delusions of grandeur teacher?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Feb 13 - 08:48 AM

I live on a housing association estate.

That's a Council Estate with sensible management.

I'd say it's about 30% working class and 70% lower middle or middle class.

Hardly any young women with multiple kids by different fathers and very few workshy scroungers.

I suspect that those particular demographics are much less prevalent in real life than they are in the minds of eejits who are afraid that somebody else might be getting something for nothing.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Feb 13 - 10:30 AM

Good Heavens Don. I may have to frame that as something you said I agree with. Well, not the praise of private enterprise, but the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Feb 13 - 07:45 PM

For your information Richard, Russet homes gave an undertaking to us, the tenants, (not the government) that their rents would never rise by more than 2% above inflation, and they have stuck to that ever since.

As our rents in 2002 were on average £8 per week lower than those of the Council tenants in Chatham and Aylesford (the neighbouring authority) our housing association was forced, under strong protest, by that devious little shit Blair to add an extra £2 per week increase each year till 2005 to bring the rents level and prevent a Labour Council being shown up as inefficient.

Since we voted for the housing association, whole housing stock has been completely insulated, double glazed (windows & front and back doors) and we are on our second change to new condensing boilers. Also the outside walls and window frames have been redecorated every five years.

All within the promised rent structure and we are currently in the process of having kitchens and bathrooms modernised.

In the eighteen years before the housing association took over the stock, it had been decorated once, the kitchens and the ground floor only central heating were straight out of a 1960s catalogue of cheap and nasty fittings.

If that is the private enterprise you despise, I pity you for your lack of knowledge or understanding.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Feb 13 - 09:16 PM

Chicken, catch a Tory--- or, in the USA, a Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 03:36 PM

We are nothing like your Regnant party Art.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 03:37 PM

Damn keyboard!

Repugnant party.

DT

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 13 - 09:17 PM

Fortunately they aren't regnant at present.

Subject: RE: BS: A New Tory Iniquity
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Feb 13 - 08:25 PM

Amen to that Kevin.

The world is a safer place for it.

Don T.