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BS: P.E. stops you being gay?

Mr Happy 29 Apr 13 - 07:42 AM
John MacKenzie 29 Apr 13 - 08:01 AM
GUEST,Musket sans reality check 29 Apr 13 - 08:26 AM
John P 29 Apr 13 - 10:09 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 29 Apr 13 - 11:23 AM
Q 29 Apr 13 - 12:21 PM
Elmore 29 Apr 13 - 12:53 PM
GUEST,Eliza 29 Apr 13 - 02:40 PM
Don Firth 29 Apr 13 - 03:02 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 29 Apr 13 - 03:06 PM
GUEST,Kendall 29 Apr 13 - 03:11 PM
KB in Iowa 29 Apr 13 - 04:38 PM
Don Firth 29 Apr 13 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,leeneia 29 Apr 13 - 04:54 PM
Allan Conn 29 Apr 13 - 04:59 PM
akenaton 29 Apr 13 - 05:01 PM
JohnInKansas 29 Apr 13 - 05:04 PM
Allan Conn 29 Apr 13 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,Eliza 29 Apr 13 - 05:31 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 29 Apr 13 - 05:56 PM
bobad 29 Apr 13 - 06:32 PM
akenaton 29 Apr 13 - 06:51 PM
TIA 29 Apr 13 - 08:01 PM
Don Firth 29 Apr 13 - 08:40 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 29 Apr 13 - 11:48 PM
Don Firth 30 Apr 13 - 01:14 AM
Don Firth 30 Apr 13 - 01:51 AM
akenaton 30 Apr 13 - 03:09 AM
Richard Bridge 30 Apr 13 - 03:14 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 30 Apr 13 - 03:44 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 30 Apr 13 - 04:50 AM
GUEST,Musket sans reality check 30 Apr 13 - 05:14 AM
Rumncoke 30 Apr 13 - 05:43 AM
JohnInKansas 30 Apr 13 - 05:51 AM
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Bob the Postman 30 Apr 13 - 03:03 PM
gnu 30 Apr 13 - 03:17 PM
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GUEST,Guest from Sanity 30 Apr 13 - 06:06 PM
gnu 30 Apr 13 - 06:07 PM
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GUEST,TIA 30 Apr 13 - 08:49 PM
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Don Firth 01 May 13 - 12:36 AM
GUEST,Eliza 01 May 13 - 03:59 AM
akenaton 01 May 13 - 04:12 AM
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akenaton 01 May 13 - 04:39 AM
GUEST,Musket sans reality check 01 May 13 - 06:38 AM
GUEST,Musket sans reality check 01 May 13 - 08:50 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 01 May 13 - 10:26 AM
frogprince 01 May 13 - 11:33 AM
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akenaton 01 May 13 - 01:42 PM
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gnu 01 May 13 - 02:13 PM
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GUEST,Guest from Sanity 04 May 13 - 12:46 AM
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Don Firth 04 May 13 - 01:34 AM
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Don Firth 04 May 13 - 01:01 PM
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Don Firth 04 May 13 - 01:59 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 04 May 13 - 03:49 PM
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Don Firth 04 May 13 - 07:30 PM
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GUEST,Guest from Sanity 05 May 13 - 11:48 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 05 May 13 - 09:46 PM
frogprince 05 May 13 - 10:14 PM
GUEST,TIA 05 May 13 - 10:58 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 06 May 13 - 11:00 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 06 May 13 - 12:27 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 06 May 13 - 12:48 PM
GUEST 06 May 13 - 01:19 PM
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Don Firth 08 May 13 - 05:36 PM
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Don Firth 08 May 13 - 09:07 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 08 May 13 - 11:39 PM
Don Firth 09 May 13 - 01:20 AM
GUEST,Eliza 09 May 13 - 05:41 AM
GUEST 09 May 13 - 10:49 AM
Don Firth 09 May 13 - 12:57 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 09 May 13 - 01:46 PM
Don Firth 09 May 13 - 06:17 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 May 13 - 12:30 AM
Don Firth 10 May 13 - 12:59 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 May 13 - 02:06 AM
Don Firth 10 May 13 - 02:32 AM
GUEST,Eliza 10 May 13 - 05:47 AM
GUEST,Eliza 10 May 13 - 05:50 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 May 13 - 07:43 PM
Don Firth 10 May 13 - 08:06 PM
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Don Firth 11 May 13 - 02:13 AM
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Don Firth 11 May 13 - 02:42 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 11 May 13 - 03:47 PM
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GUEST,Guest from Sanity 11 May 13 - 04:29 PM
GUEST,Musket sans respectability 12 May 13 - 03:58 AM
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Subject: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 07:42 AM

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/physical-excercise-prevents-you-becoming-gay-claims-uk-councillor-candidate270413


In the words of Victor Meldrew 'I don't believe it!1'


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 08:01 AM

Well touching my toes was a regular instruction when I did gymn at school. I don't know about gay, but it certainly didn't make me very happy!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 08:26 AM

Ah yes. The UKIP candidates. ..

They would be worth laughing at but with serious candidates from traditional parties getting the blame for everything, fringe loonies such as UKIP and their cousins BNP are in danger of getting votes. Sad bad times I'm afraid.

For USA catters, I would describe them as the tea party effect. The conservative party are going round in circles to see what the attraction is and copy it. The buggers therefore win even by losing.

If you think their position on being gay is absurd, you should listen to what they have to say about immigration and restoring the British Empire.   You may regret The Boston Tea Party after all because they seem to wish to invoice for the lost duty. ....


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: John P
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 10:09 AM

I sell harps for a living. I once had a woman ask me in all seriousness if her son's interest in playing the Celtic harp meant he was gay. Fortunately, there was a CD at hand by a male Celtic harpist who has five children, some of whom played on the CD.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 11:23 AM

I guess they'll keep looking for ANYTHING that 'makes' people become homosexuals.....the genetic bullshit just didn't pan out!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Q
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 12:21 PM

Unfortunately, few schools at junior/senior high school level teach anything about human genetics, and if they do, the tendency toward gay is not discussed.

RC and fundamentalist schools of course would call it a sin.

Some 10-15% of the population is gay or hs some tendencies towards it.

I don't know how the subject is covered in UK schools.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Elmore
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 12:53 PM

P.E. didn't affect my sexuality. It did contribute to my changing to a parochial school, where they didn't bother with p.e.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 02:40 PM

At first you just laugh, but on reflection this is actually very evil and nasty. Even if it were true (as if!), why would anyone wish to 'stop' being gay, or prevent it? What is wrong with being gay anyway? It isn't a disease, it's a prefectly acceptable human trait. Imagine if one substituted 'black-skinned' for gay, eg 'One could avoid all the horrors of being black by exercising regularly.' Terrible prejudice. The frightening thing is a lot of normally fairly sane and balanced folk quite like the idea of UKIP. God help us all!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 03:02 PM

Ludicrous!

Also, I see that GooFuS is still in denial.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 03:06 PM

The only thing that stops me from bein' gay is complete lack of interest.

- Chongo


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 03:11 PM

In a world where all the knowledge we have is free, how in the hell does such utter horse shit exist?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 04:38 PM

I guess he must have skipped P.E.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 04:52 PM

Yeah, well when I was in high school, a lot of kids really hated Physical Education (gym class), and it DID tend to make them a bit surly. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 04:54 PM

"RC and fundamentalist schools of course would call it a sin."

I doubt that. I attended a Catholic church for many years, and homosexuality was mentioned once. The education guy said from the pulpit that being a homosexual was okay. There was no reaction that I ever noticed. People just accepted it.

As for exercise, I'll have to ask my lesbian friend who bikes to work and runs in races how she feels about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Allan Conn
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 04:59 PM

"Some 10-15% of the population is gay or hs some tendencies towards it."

Of course the UKIP guy is a disgrace but I was just wondering where this 15% figure comes from. For instance the household survey from several years ago came up with only about 1.5% the population who classed themselves as being either homosexual or bisexual. 95% of people described themselves as heterosexuals. 3% either said 'don't know' or refused to answer and 0.5% chose other.

How many of the population are gay of course is neither here nor there the important thing is that they treated the same as everyone else. It is just that you see stats banded about!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/official-statistics-reveal-uk-gay


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 05:01 PM

Q....Where did the 10/15% come from?
The recognised percentage of homosexuals in the population is 2/3% (CDC...HPA)

The hypothesis that Physical Education stops people becoming homosexual is obviously nonesense.
People become homosexual for many reasons, mostly psychological, a genetic link has not been found.
The genetic make up of homosexuals and heterosexuals is identical.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 05:04 PM

In actuality, the separation of the sexes in typical "PE" appears to be a strong effect in the creation of the "male bonding" that's advocated in several team sports, and that some have suggested is an effective way of suppressing the overt recognition of male homosexual tendencies by disguising them as "something else" more acceptable. The implication is that PE (team sports) to some extent "keeps them in the closet," since it provides an "inoffensive outlet" for their inclinations (if they're not too strong) but there's no real evidence that it changes any one's attitudes by much.

My experience has been that this occurs less frequently in sports where the emphasis is on individual performance like track or wrestling, but is generally something that appears to be fairly common in football and almost as prevalent in basketball/soccer/hockey where there's lots of "physical contact" and much dependence on "cooperation with guys just like me."

There were several "suspects" on my old High School football team, a couple of whom actually did "come out" later. I can't think of any from the track/cross country bunch who are similar examples, and only one from the swim team (but we all knew about him long before he did, so maybe he doesn't count).

John


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Allan Conn
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 05:18 PM

"People become homosexual for many reasons, mostly psychological"

You know that? That sounds almost like there is some psychological reason they make that choice and I take it if that were so then a visit to the shrink could possibly 'cure' them. Couldn't it just be that maybe there were born that way and preferring people of the same sex is their natural condition? Even if it isn't the natural condition for the majority population. Why does something need to be 'wrong' with them?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 05:31 PM

Well said Allan!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 05:56 PM

Don Firth: "Ludicrous!
Also, I see that GooFuS is still in denial."

Denial???? denial of what?..that they have not found a gene????
So how can it be 'genetic' without there being a 'gene' involved??.....
and don't bother putting up the one with 'three markers'....the 'gene' I told you about......There is no 'gene'.....that's just your rationalization that ran out of steam AND evidence!!!

It's behavioral, nincompoop!
That's why the 'P.E.' thing is somewhat humorous in itself!

Simple as that.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 06:32 PM

"People become homosexual for many reasons, mostly psychological,..."

Just wondering did you become heterosexual (if that is your orientation) at some point? Did you arrive at a point in your life where you had to make a conscious choice between being a homosexual or heterosexual?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 06:51 PM

Allan, I dont "know", I have opinions, just like you or others who believe homosexuality is based on genetics....a "third sex"

It used to be widely accepted that homosexuality was based on a childs relationship ....or lack of one, with his or her parents.
Sexual, physical, or mental abuse in childhood was also thought to be a factor.


Both of these explanations seem more sensible than hitching ones wagon to an invisible gene.
Surely, with the advancement in genetics in recent years,any link should be patently obvious, but despite millions of £s and the best efforts of science, the pink gene remains undiscovered?

In the meantime science can trace our DNA back into antiquity, make the most amazing discoveries about our ancestors, yet cannot show homosexuality to be anything other than learned, or aquired behaviour.

On "Gat Pride" marches, my position has always been, that if hetero's were to hold such demonstrations, they would surely fall foul of anti discrimination legislation......."Proud to be Hetero is definitely a NO-NO" :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: TIA
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 08:01 PM

Is anybody's preferences for food or colors or music or politics completely devoid of genetic influences? Are any of those preferences totally controlled by genetics? Any sensible person will answer no and no. Sexual orientation, like all other tastes, is certain to have genetic as well as environmental components (perhaps as well as genetic components triggered by environmental factors). But let's pretend for a moment that there is *no* genetic component, and it is all due to childhood or in-utero environmental factors. Doesn't this impose constraints that are every bit as strong as if they were genetic? Does the adult who results from these influences have any more "choice" in the matter than if it were entirely genetic? So lay off the bullshit nit-picking about genetics, and just don't be a fucking douchebag hater. Or do you want people telling *you* whom you can and cannot love?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 08:40 PM

As a gay acquaintance of mine told me when I asked him, "Considering the facts that being gay can make you an outcast with a large number of people, can get you fired from you job or not hired in the first place, can get you repeatedly dragged into a back alley and beaten up, and could even get you killed, who with half a brain would ever choose to be gay?"

=====

Widely accepted by whom, Ake?

The science of genetics is considerably more complex than you are trying to make it sound. Yes, certain specific genes can be traced back to antiquity, but the interaction of certain combinations of genes, especially if some of them are recessive, is a much more complicated matter.

The fact that sexual orientation has a genetic component is not in doubt by the vast majority of geneticists (see, for example, several articles in "Scientific American" and "Psychology Today."). True, a specific gay gene has not been found and there may not be one—as such! But it has been noted that same sex orientation tends to run in extended families. Which is to say that an unusual number, but nowhere near every male (obviously!) in a particular extended family, is gay. And this holds true even when cousins or uncles and nephews have never met, so the idea of an uncle molesting his nephew or teaching him to be gay simply doesn't wash in this context.

And abuse, sexual or otherwise (a simplistic explanation at best), is not at issue, because it manifests itself in several discrete families within and extended family.

This is significant in terms of genetic research. It is believed by some geneticists that the gene(s) involved are carried by some females in the extended family, although it does not seem to affect that particular female as far as her sexual orientation is concerned.

MOST genetic issues are far more complex that simply locating a single gene.

And sorry, Goofballupagus. Just because YOU don't want to see the moon and you hide under the bed whenever it's out, does not mean it isn't there.

The vigor you display in denying the existence of genetic components in same-sex orientation are a clear indication that you are emotionally invested in the matter.

Busted!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 11:48 PM

Unless anyone comes up with a 'gene', and not just theorizing about it, then it is completely idiotic to go say it is 'genetic'!
No gene...no equivalence to race, creed, or color. Period!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 01:14 AM

Stanford University study.

National Institute of Health study.

And I can come up with a couple of dozen more.

THIS is most interesting. From "Scientific American". (Explains a lot!).

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 01:51 AM

Handedness—as in right handed or left handed—is genetic. But there is no "left handed gene" as such. Handedness, like many other characteristics, is determined by a combination of genetic factors.

To say that left handedness is a matter of choice and cannot possibly be genetic unless one can show a specific "left handed gene" indicates that the person who makes that sort of claim doesn't know diddly-squat about genetics.

And it's interesting to note that young left handed children who are forced to learn to write and do similar tasks with their right hands rather than their left often develop a range of problems, such as stammering.

Not unlike same-sex oriented people who have "cured" of their "abnormality" by "counselors," frequently with aversion therapy.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 03:09 AM

Tia...with the greatest respect, homosexuals are not defined by whom they "love", but by whom they are sexually attracted to.

I love my sons and other male family members, but have never been sexually attracted to other men.
In common with most heterosexuals I find the idea repulsive.

I believe this "Ughh" factor is natures way of pointing out the right direction in sexual matters.

In saying that, I am not a "hater", I believe people shoul be allowed to chose how they conduct themselves in sexually, but I do not think legislation to promote this sort of behaviour is in the long term interests of society or homosexuals, for the reasons that I have oft repeated.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 03:14 AM

"Promote"? Oh shit!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 03:44 AM

From the Stanford study that you posted:

"Fetal development studies suggest how such a gene might influence such a complex behavior. The development of a fetus into a male is accomplished by the development of the testes, which produce testosterone, which has a wide range of physiological effects. During the perinatal period, a week before and after birth, testosterone has an irreversible organizing effect on the body and brain of males. If the hormone is absent during this period, the individual's anatomy and behavior never can become wholly male. A testosterone surge during puberty activates male sexual development and behavior."

When they get done playing around, they have also found that this 'abnormal development' in "...testosterone has an irreversible organizing effect on the body and brain of males." is caused by the mother's disposition during pregnancy....RECEPTORS!

Stanford study: "Identical twin studies shed additional light on the genetic underpinnings of sexual preference. If there are differences in preference between identical twins, who share the same genes, then that difference cannot be genetic. Here, the research indicates that in cases where one identical male twin is gay, about half the time the other twin is gay as well. "This is way above 4 percent, so it's got to be genetic, but it is nowhere near 100 percent,"

This is Goldstein's OPINION...overlooking that the RECEPTORS, which are from the same mother, are 'nourishing' or setting up the responses and 'needs', which homosexual BEHAVIOR patterns are formed.

Continuing from the Stanford predetermined 'study':
"The results of this survey are supported by studies of "gender non-conforming children." In little girls, this behavior, acting as tomboys, bears no social stigma. In little boys, cross-dressing, playing with dolls and behaving like girls is socially damaging. A larger than average number of such "sissy boys" become gay adults, she said."

So she sums up the study with this little 'gem'...."...In little boys, cross-dressing, playing with dolls and behaving like girls is socially damaging."

So cross dressing is 'genetic'??????...and playing with dolls????
Sounds more CULTURAL to me......which is a response, to appeasing RECEPTORS!

NIH' 'Study':
Read this carefully, (I'll put in capitals the misleading wordage)

"WASHINGTON (UPI) -- Many homosexual men APPEAR to INHERIT a gene FROM THE MOTHERS that influences sexual orientation, a National Cancer Institute researcher reported Thursday."

Why only from the mothers?????.....I know why, and you run from it. The fathers aren't carrying the fetus, which 'SUGGESTS' even LOUDER that the formation of RECEPTORS in the nervous system, has a GREAT deal with the mother/fetal link, than anything 'genetic' from the father.

"The finding -- certain to add fuel to the already heated debate over gay rights -- supports earlier studies which SUGGESTED that inherited genetic factors AT LEAST PLAY A ROLE in determining sexual orientation."

``Being gay is not simply a choice or purely a decision. PEOPLE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE GENES THEY INHERIT"

While that is true, it is a blanket statement, as if to tie it into the homosexual 'debate'.....because the trait is not genetically based! EITHER THIS STUDY, WITH IT'S DOUBLE TALK WAS FUNDED BY A HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA, OR WHAT THEY WANTED TO SAY WAS PREDETERMINED. You can see it clearly in the wording, and carefully placed 'disclaimers'....LIKE THIS ONE:(but read it carefully, you will see 'RECEPTORS' all over the place!)


"The X chromosome is one of two sex-determining chromosomes; it is ALWAYS INHERITED FROM THE MOTHERS. Genes are arranged along 46 chromosomes, each consisting of tiny coils of DNA, deoxyribonucleic acid, WHICH CARRIES THE INSTRUCTIONS TO MANUFACTURE a particular body substance.

There was no such similar sharing in the same region among heterosexual men. The researchers have not yet compared the homosexuals' genetic information to the other group."

WHAT????????????!!!! They come to that conclusion without comparing them to the other group?????????
I've had issues with the NIH before, for being agenda driven phonies, but even you, who are WANTING to hear these results can't buy into that crap!...at least I wouldn't think you were THAT stupid!!!
(but you never know.....)

That 'study'(?) from the NIH, is just so ambiguous, and set up in it's wording just to play into giving people what they want to hear, rather than any serious study!!!

'Scientific American'... OK..I just saw the title..it said enough...AND, I'm aware of that, already. We used to call it, by asking, 'Are you worried?'

Oh, and if that was included as an innuendo, you can shove it!
As I've said quite a few times before..."I know what they are, and i know what they're not"......which if you could possibly understand what an OBJECTIVE person would say!

...or do you know what objectivity is?/...you've rarely shown it!

GfS

P.S. Its behavioral, set up by the mothers, connection during an emotionally stressed pregnancy. BET ON IT!
......and more often than not, because of resentments toward the father!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 04:50 AM

""P.S. Its behavioral, set up by the mothers, connection during an emotionally stressed pregnancy. BET ON IT!
......and more often than not, because of resentments toward the father!
""

Objectivity is it?

Right! Show us YOUR objective evidence for the proportion of gay men and women whose mothers resented the fathers!

Or you could just admit that this whole bullshit argument is simply a manifestation of your own behavioral problems.

A new tinfoil hat might help, or perhaps electro shock therapy.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 05:14 AM

Aye a gay thread and as ever. .

In the blue corner!
Ad nauseum.

Choice? Genetic code? Role models? Promote!!!!

Keep going Ake. Keep going Goofus. The UKIP idiot gets more credibility in his head the more intelligent people give him ammunition.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 05:43 AM

It could be argued that having non breeding humans in the family would have been a good thing - way back when having a youngster to feed was a serious drain on the family resources.

A couple of women who just brought in the plants and small animals without producing babies, men who would rather be off hunting or fishing with the others rather than turning up with a watermelon grin and a pregnant girl - recipe for survival as far as I can see.

If a stressful pregnancy results in more homosexual behaviour it could be argued that it is a perfectly natural survival trait, adapting the family group to have fewer dependants and more providers or even fighters in the next generation.

The situation could either continue with continued stress or revert to - I hesitate to call it more normal, but a situation where more people are disposed to breed, which would also be a survival trait in less stressful times.

Genes are very complicated structures, and they can express themselves in different ways - they are by no means set in stone. Different conditions during development and childhood cause genes to work differently, sometimes not in the person experiencing the conditions but their children or even grandchildren.

People who went through a period of starvation at a particular age have a significantly higher number of diabetic grandchildren, for instance.

There is a whole branch of science to study these inherited but not genetic alterations - the names of which totally escapes me.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 05:51 AM

when I was in high school, a lot of kids really hated Physical Education (gym class),

That was one reason I went for three team sports (and lettered in two of them, three years each) in High School. The downside is that the sex education movie was only shown in gym class so I never got to know anything about that stuff (except by my own independent studies, was actually quite a lot of fun and probably better training than watching the movie).

John


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 12:28 PM

Rumncoke: "It could be argued that having non breeding humans in the family would have been a good thing - way back when having a youngster to feed was a serious drain on the family resources."

EXACTLY!!!......and in China parents are only 'allowed' one child...and who do you think is promoting the U.S. should follow China as a 'model'??.......Those who have a vested interest in seeing that the birth rate goes down voluntarily, through whatever means....expanded abortions, free birth control and homosexuality.
By the way, the quote that China has the ideal model, was said by none other than Rockefeller!....who also promoted the woman's movement in the 60's....not to raise their 'status'(if you will)...but to (and I quote),..."to raise the tax base".....broken homes, dysfunctional families, as a 'side effect' was not a concern!!!!!

GfS

P.S. Good, thoughtful post Rumncoke!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 03:03 PM

This happened to a guy I know.

The teacher wanted to divide the PE class into two teams so he had them form a line and number off "one, two, one, two, . . . etc." My friend was standing at the right hand end of the line and thus was supposed to be the first to call out "one"—but he was gathering wool and stood there mute. Enraged, the teacher stuck his face three inches away from our hero and roared, "ARE YOU ONE? ARE YOU ONE?"

The reply: "Yes, sir. How did you know? Are you one too?"


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 03:17 PM

Well, I AM a P.E. and I am not gay so it must be true??? Come to think of it, of all the professional engineers I have ever known, NONE were gay. There ya go. That is conclusive proof. And, to seal the deal, the only way someone would fuck a P.E. is for procreation and gay people would never do that AND we all know gay people do not make good parents on accounta people like dumbass know it's true and he nailed it on P.E. thing eh?

Sigh... it just seems like it will never end until the stupid are prohibited from breeding or adoption. Unfuckinreal. What a waste of natural resources.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 04:11 PM

While the top feeders like to say "the cream always comes to the top," in the absence of exceedingly special environments (pure pools of dairy products that in this case may include "bull milk") it's much more appropriate to note that "so does the scum," as that's much more representative of what "the top" consists of in more general situations.

Respected, peer reviewed, and validated reports of research having significantly better credibility than many of the pseudoscientific hallucinations cited here have also found that in a majority of cases most breeding (reproductive) activity takes place near the surface (although the credible reports do also consider some exceptions).

Draw your own conclusions.

In the gene pool, most reproduction comes from .............

John


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 04:26 PM

I have presented the arguments and backed them with evidence from reliable sources. NONE of which will get either Goofballupagus or Akenaton to admit they might be wrong or even give serious consideration to the matter.

Goofy especially objects to the Scientific American article, and by doing so as vociferously as he does, actually lends credence to what the article itself is saying. Apparently the title of the article sent him into a fit of terror.

Here it is again, in case you missed it the first time:    Scientific American article.

By the way, little boys wanting to dress like little girls and play with dolls, is not dictated by a particular gene per se, as Goofy tries to claim one of the articles is saying. It means that the complexity of genes may be there.

It's amazing the writhing and twisting that goes on when people don't want to believe something is true. Not unlike the Church when Galileo said that the Universe is NOT geocentric. When he persisted and suggested that they take the telescope and look for themselves, they refused and threatened him with being burned at the stake unless he recanted. Knowing, of course, that in the long run, he would be proved right (Copernicus was saying the same thing), to save his own life, Galileo mumblingly allowed as how he might be wrong.

He prevailed, of course. Truth will out.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 05:28 PM

Hey gnu, my brother-in-law is a gay Professional Engineer. Someday I'm going to ask his partner what it's like to **** a man with an iron ring.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 05:57 PM

It's epigenetic.

It means that the basic nucleotides remain the same, but they tie themselves into a different shape by a chemical process and so do something different.

Been nagging at me all afternoon - it was afternoon where I am.

It is like a coat hanger changes shape when the keys get locked inside the car, just a lot lot smaller.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 06:06 PM

Firth: "It's amazing the writhing and twisting that goes on when people don't want to believe something is true. Not unlike the Church when Galileo said that the Universe is NOT geocentric. When he persisted and suggested that they take the telescope and look for themselves, they refused and threatened him with being burned at the stake unless he recanted. Knowing, of course, that in the long run, he would be proved right (Copernicus was saying the same thing), to save his own life, Galileo mumblingly allowed as how he might be wrong."

I know exactly how he felt!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 06:07 PM

BobtP... hahahahahaaa! Hahahahahehehehehe! I can't stop laughing! That is hilarious!!! Thank you, sir!

Don... "don't want to believe" or trollin yer chain? Either way, it's futile... seems to me I said that a few years back. Seriously, when people cover themselves so deep in their own shit for so long, it's a waste of time to respond even for the best of reasons. I ain't gettin into THAT again. Fill yer boots if you feel the need. I am tired of it all.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 06:21 PM

Right, Gnu. Goofballupagus is a lost cause. The idea of sexual orientation being determined by genetics has him completely terrified and he's scared spitless of his own genes.

Now why should the possibility frighten him so much? Unless he has "strange, 'inappropriate' urges?"

As the Scientific American article indicates, his homophobia and his constant harping on the subject speaks far louder than his frantic denials.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 08:49 PM

All kinds of reasons not to believe Scientific American and NIH and Stanford...
But we are supposed to "BET ON IT!" on just say-so?
Yeah right.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 11:59 PM

Don Firth: "Now why should the possibility frighten him so much? Unless he has "strange, 'inappropriate' urges?"

Back to your old tricks again, of trying to discredit....so, speaking of which, tell me, why are you so concerned about your two 'best buddies' homosexual sex life than you were of your own son's well being, that you abandoned him, refusing to do anything with his upbringing??....(Such a 'caring' guy!)

...and you THINK you can scold me while you launder your disregard for families...even your own, and replace it with this new found, patronizing of homosexuals??!!??....as if you give a shit about the living????

...and for those who 'think' that I'm just making any of this up, the answer IS found in the receptor formation in the womb.....it's just not so 'chic' right now. Politics, in its short term, is trumping truth AT PRESENT...but it is only for the present...and it is only short term.

This shit will go the way of the Hula-Hoop!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 May 13 - 12:36 AM

Not "best buddies," but long time friends of my wife and me. One is a member of the writers' group that meets at our apartment once a month, and he and his partner are often guests, along with several other people, on holidays And they are their own best buddies, capisch?

And by the way, they've just been married under Washington State's new same-sex marriage bill, which was passed by popular vote in the last election.

And I have always been concerned with my son's well-being, and I deserted no one. When you don't know the uniqueness of the situation (and I'm not going to tell you because it's none of your business), you do what you normally do—lie your fool head off!

And the kind of lies you tell graphically illustrate the nature of your own character. It's what you do.

And as far as the issue of same-sex marriage going away, obviously not so. More and more states are passing laws to make same-sex marriage legal. It's just a matter of time. And then YOU, Goofy, and those benighted souls who share your attitudes and prejudices, will be the primitives left behind by the rest of the world.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 May 13 - 03:59 AM

I feel I've said this so many times I'm turning into a parrot. But what harm do gays do by a) being gay or b) getting married? Why on earth should it offend anyone at all? Why should one try to discover 'what made them gay' or attempt to halt the process or cirumvent it if it's genetic? At worst one should exercise tolerant acceptance and at best show all people of any sexuality friendliness, kindness and understanding. What is the matter with people? Why all this nastiness? Can't get my head round it at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 01 May 13 - 04:12 AM

"Legislation, my dear!....Legislation. :0(


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 May 13 - 04:14 AM

I am certainly not 'your dear', if that post is addressed to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 01 May 13 - 04:39 AM

Thankfully, it was not intended as a term of endearment Eliza, but as a paraphrase of a well known quotation from Harold Macmillan, a former UK Prime Minister.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 01 May 13 - 06:38 AM

And patronising anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 01 May 13 - 08:50 AM

Of course, hiding behind legislation to support odious views has a short shelf life. Shortly, The UK will be in its various parliaments and assemblies voting through gay marriage.

The only issues your love life and lifestyle will then have shall be the increasingly irrelevant religious clubs who see their authority challenged and bitter twisted old people who are incapable of addressing their built in bigotry. The former will wither on the vine or decide to embrace the idea in order to be popular and the latter become less of a problem with every nursing home vacancy.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 May 13 - 10:26 AM

Firth: "..... When you don't know the uniqueness of the situation (and I'm not going to tell you because it's none of your business), you do what you normally do—lie your fool head off!"

Don, get real, will ya'...nobody has lied more on this subject than you have....and when anyone challenges you to tell the truth, you throw up a bunch of 'distractions'.....name calling, discrediting, slander and even libel....so don't get up on your soap box, and start preaching down at people, about how someone ELSE is going to lie about something you won't say......when you won't even approach telling the truth, about what you're afraid they're going to lie about!!!

Look, we've been around this bush too many times already.
You think I'm a meanie...and I think you hide behind politics. Let's leave it at that. I told you, now several years ago, on here, that if you shove me, I'll shove back....and we've polluted enough cyberspace, with the bickering. Lay off the 'shoving' and lying, and I'll lay off telling you where to shove it!


GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: frogprince
Date: 01 May 13 - 11:33 AM

Gfs insists that the proper interpretation of one recently cited article is that homosexual orientation is caused by prenatal changes to receptors, not by genetic factors. Saying, just for this point in the discussion, that this is true. The article still indicates that the child ends up with irreversable differences in physical, biological and psychological makeup. How does this fit with saying that his orientation is strictly "behavioural", that he can be "cured" by pounding on upholstered furniture and being hugged, and that there is nothing wrong with discriminating against him because there is no valid analogy to discrimination against someone born with different skin color?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:35 PM

Excellent question frogprince. I asked it (not as well worded as yours) above and (surprise surprise surprise) no answer.

"Date: 29 Apr 13 - 08:01 PM

... let's pretend for a moment that there is *no* genetic component, and it is all due to childhood or in-utero environmental factors. Doesn't this impose constraints that are every bit as strong as if they were genetic? Does the adult who results from these influences have any more "choice" in the matter than if it were entirely genetic?"


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:42 PM

Ian...Your hypothesis leaves out the thorny problem of ever increasing homosexual STD rates......unless of course you can explain why they are so bad?

Unfortunately this has always been the elephant in the room that no one wishes to talk about.

"Dont respond to or debate with Akenaton....it gives him an air of respectability"

You and others of your ilk are a joke.......Joke liberals! :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:43 PM

Personally, I don't care whether PE stops you from being gay. I want to know if there's some course that would stop people from being assholes.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 May 13 - 01:52 PM

The STD rate amongst lesbian women is the lowest of any demographic.
So they can marry, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: gnu
Date: 01 May 13 - 02:13 PM

Sure they can TIA. Sad part is, according to "some", only if they marry a man.

Sorry... couldn't resist.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 May 13 - 02:58 PM

Har har!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans respectability
Date: 01 May 13 - 03:25 PM

The prosecution rests M'Lud.

I wondered when a thread about a stupid idea regarding how people can change assuming they want to, leads to Akenaton twisting statistics to justify his hate.

The issue is with you, not well adjusted people with a lifestyle you cannot comprehend or have an irrational paranoia about. Time if nothing else will end this Victorian bigotry.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 May 13 - 03:33 PM

Goofball, I AM being real. And no one has lied more about me and my relationship with my family than YOU have. My relationship with my family and my son is perfectly fine. Nothing tawdry as you are trying to claim and nothing for me or anyone else to be ashamed of.

But YOU go right on LYING about it. And what motivates you even to comment? Only your desire to attack my credibility. Because I have the unfortunate habit of telling the truth and backing it up with reliable source material such as "Scientific American" and "Psychology Today."

So you attack the messenger.

And it's notable that if I DO mention anything about my wife or my son or our many our friends, you trip over your own clumsy feet in an effort to twist what I say into something petty and tawdry. Because that's the way your mind works!

Just how low can you sink, Goofy?

YOU'RE the one who can't handle the truth!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Jeri
Date: 01 May 13 - 03:47 PM

Back in the 70's, I still encountered people telling "n..." jokes, and sometimes some other people laughed. I still ran into people using that word. At that time, it took a little bit of courage to walk away from the racists. But more and more people did it, until gradually the racists were ostracized or shut up.

There are probably some of them around still, but they know it's not acceptable. Eventually, that's what will happen to homophobes. People can learn. Sometimes they're the haters, and sometimes they're the ones who can't quit arguing with the rigid haters.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 May 13 - 06:01 PM

I thought I was pretty thoughtful on replying to the post with the 'studies'....and if you'd remember my response to some of those group 'studies' from an earlier thread, you wouldn't be making such a big deal of it now.
Just goes to show how repetitively petty you are...more smoke in mirrors!
As to TIA's question....consider this...you are basing your question on flawed findings from agenda driven 'studies'...these are funded to 'find' certain results, but ALWAYS leave a door open...because, in reality, they are flawed and skewed results and findings. Only one of the 'studies' posted by Don, even approached what I've been saying..but they glossed over it, turning attention to the (never found) genetic link.
...and if I remember an earlier question of yours correctly, about your family relation, and what you said were the circumstances during the time of a pregnancy, you WILL find that the answer to your inquiry has more consistencies with what I've been saying, than any 'genetic' rhetoric!!
...and that is the plain truth...and I think you know it...and with all the condoning of 'it's in the genes, nothing can be done about it' rap, it leaves one without any answers to correct the things that caused the pain, to cause the issue at question.
(My, that was answered delicately).....

Best Wishes, Hope things come around, (there are some conciliatory open wounds, in your family that should be addressed and healed.)

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 May 13 - 09:20 PM

Goatfeathers, Goofy!

You were having paranoid hissy-fits back then and you're still having them now. Scientific studies don't get through to you because no matter how well researched and documented, you don't want them to be true for reasons we all understand quite well.

And my family is just fine, with no wounds of any kind, thank you very much. You're half-baked idea that there were ever any wounds is just a figment of your vivid imagination.

I believe psychiatrists call that "projection." Look to your own little nest.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 May 13 - 02:40 AM

This thread has run its course, once again they try to draw an analogy between behaviour and race(skin colour), anyone with the least intelligence can see there is absolutely no relation.

To draw such an analogy in open debate is despicable and not in the least liberal.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 May 13 - 02:50 AM

Tia... as always, you deserve a response.
You are correct in stating that female homosexuals have lower than average STD rates, but my stance has always been on health issues affecting male homosexuals.

There are still a large number of people worldwide who oppose "gay marriage", not on health grounds, for most of them are quite unaware of the official statistics....but on grounds of religion, or family structure, etc.....their views are just as valid as those of people who believe in "equality"


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 May 13 - 02:58 AM

Sorry....pressed the button by mistake!

If the views of all people worldwide were to be treated "equally", you would find that those who favour legislation to support homosexuality are in a tiny minority......so "equality" can mean exactly what you want it to mean.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 02 May 13 - 04:55 AM

Akenaton does not just worry about male health. Plenty of comments on many threads where he expands his hate beyond the "caring" aspect and gives his view of what is wrong with society.

You are. ..


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 May 13 - 05:02 AM

No, he has only ever given health concerns as his rational.
He has stated no other objections.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 May 13 - 07:05 AM

""This thread has run its course, once again they try to draw an analogy between behaviour and race(skin colour), anyone with the least intelligence can see there is absolutely no relation.

To draw such an analogy in open debate is despicable and not in the least liberal.
""

Nothing like as despicable as insisting on the term "behavioural", when you know that you are incapable of saying when you chose the opposite "behaviour", because you never made that choice!

So if your orientation was and is a built in trait, you have NO case to make about homosexuals.

End of story!
Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 May 13 - 10:05 AM

Don Firth: "And my family is just fine, with no wounds of any kind, thank you very much. You're half-baked idea that there were ever any wounds is just a figment of your vivid imagination.
I believe psychiatrists call that "projection." Look to your own little nest."

I wasn't talking to you, no matter how much your self-absorption may tell you differently.

GfS

P.S. I'm glad your family is doing great...I think...that is, if you meant your son...who is probably doing great.....because he wasn't raised by you!
......or maybe you meant your homosexual side of the family.....
..who knows?...you're so full of yourself, who can believe ANYTHING you spout?!?!!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket on a crusade
Date: 02 May 13 - 10:40 AM

Not logged in and cant be arsed to find them right now, but a thread recently had him going beyond health. Talkijng about what was wrong with the country, liberal this, gay that etc. My reply noted the fact.

Thought you of all people could have recognised and read thoroughly reactionary comments?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 May 13 - 12:36 PM

Liberalism has turned out to be very expensive.

Of course, I suppose people like you Ian, would rather see children starving and pensioners freezing, than homosexuals being deprived of something they dont seem to want.

I am against Homosexual "marriage" on the grounds that it is bad for the structure of society, but primarily on the horrendous sexual health figures associated with the behaviour.

It would appear that male to male sexual intercourse is extremely unhealthy and if we as a society continue to sweep these figures under the carpet, then homosexuals will be the biggest losers

In parts of the US 95% of new syphillis cases are amongst MSM.
HIV figures continue to rise steadily along with most other diseases associated with male sex

In developed countries, hiv has become almost a disease of homosexuality....whether this is because of extreme promiscuity or the methods employed, should to be the subject of a large scale public enquiry and, as is being suggested by the health agencies, compusory testing and contact tracing brought forward.....Homosexuality should certainly not be presented to our children as "just another lifestyle"


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 May 13 - 12:41 PM

Ian.....your lance is bent and your horse is a donkey! :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 May 13 - 02:56 PM

My son is doing fine, thank you, and even though circumstances beyond my control did not allow me to be involved in his early life, he was raise in a good, loving family, for which I am grateful. And I would have been and excellent father to him had I been able at the time.

And I have NO homosexual relatives. A few friends, yes, but no family members.

I will not be responding any more to your nasty and childish attempts to bait me, Goofball. You are a pathological liar through and through, with overtones of sadism. I will no longer respond to your problem.

Both you and Akenaton are beyond hope.

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, you are the one around here who is "self-absorbed." Everything you have posted on this subject is a manifestation of your self-absorbed fear that among the genes you have inherited, lurks—the ONE DREADED GENE! Or combination of genes!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 02 May 13 - 03:18 PM

Keith. Read what he just put and an apology would be nice but no deal breaker.

Akenaton. Thanks for saving people the effort of trawling for your society views as opposed to health views. Both are best kept in your head if you move in polite circles. Sure, many people have a hardwired suspicion of anything different but the instinct survival trait that shows is something we are capable of confronting rather than promoting. It separates moral from savage reaction, or civilisation as we try to call it.

Just piss off. There's a good chap. I know you think we are all going to hell in a handcart but some of us wish to enjoy the journey.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 May 13 - 07:14 PM

I'm sure those suffering from Hiv aids will not be enjoying the journey Ian.

Is it not more important that some progress towards understanding the health statistics is made, than spending time and money procuring marriage rights for people who in general are not interested in having them?

Your "liberal" ideology is killing people, or at best condemning them to a life sentence.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 May 13 - 08:12 PM

Akenaton, when same-sex marriage was legalized in California, some 18,000 same-sex couples got married within the first few months, until religious forces, including out of state religious groups such as the Mormon Church in the state of Utah, poured a huge amount of funds into the state and got Proposition 8 rescinded by a narrow margin of the voters. Here in Washington State, I don't have the figures yet because the law was just passed a few months ago, but there has been a huge number of same-sex marriages.

Your claim that people of same-sex orientation are not interested in marriage is belied by the facts. You want statistics? Now that same-sex marriage has been legalized in several states, there is a great mound of statistics building up that proves you wrong.

And "liberal ideology" has nothing to do with it. Common decency and fairness does.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 May 13 - 08:15 PM

Oh! I was wrong!

Common decency and fairness are a large part of liberal ideology.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 03 May 13 - 02:00 AM

As you address me as Ian. You are aware that Ian is somewhat accountable for availability of health services regionally. This includes GU clinics. The increasing issues are with younger girls and conditions arising from their sexual activity and HIV amongst needle sharing. The former is peer pressure and the latter is ignorance and fear of a perceived link between substance misuse services and the police.

Just looking. .. no. Sorry.   Can't see any rise attributable to prevalence of civil partnership either by time line nor declaration of status as part of clinical audit.

You are just going to have to look further afield for supporting evidence of your bigotry. Facts don't seem to er.. have the facts you need. Linking loving commitment to promiscuity never really stood a chance really, did it? You have to admit, you were always onto a loser there....


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Good Soldier Schweik
Date: 03 May 13 - 02:09 AM

PE stops you being heterosexual,
iAM SURE EVERYONE AGREES what a ridiculous statement.
why should physical activity have any effect on sexual orientation


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 13 - 02:35 AM

Firth: "You are a pathological liar through and through, with overtones of sadism. I will no longer respond to your problem."

Another stupid accusation...and by the way, YOU were the one who worked in the news media...you read, and repeated stories that were fed to you from the department..often without even personally checking them out, to see if they were true. Now we ALL know that the 'news' media puts out false stories, and disinformation....so, does that make you a professional liar?...I mean, like you did it for money, didn't you??...and I'm sure you'll say YOUR news reporting was accurate.....which is a crock...cuz you never checked them out, to see if they were true......just like your posting of 'studies' that were bought and paid for...and also highly inaccurate.....but then we HAVE established that that didn't matter to you....you did it for the money. What a great thing to pursue in life, huh?.....and you know what?...you still haven't got over doing it...without any conscience about it.....so WHO is the pathological liar?????

Winking and waving at ya'!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 13 - 03:08 AM

The increasing issues are with younger girls and conditions arising from their sexual activity and HIV amongst needle sharing.

Yes but the numbers are trivial comapred with MSMs, and the increase is smaller too.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 13 - 03:09 AM

Firth: "You are a pathological liar through and through, with overtones of sadism. I will no longer respond to your problem."

Gosh, I almost left this part out....."....with overtones of sadism. I will no longer respond to your problem."


So, you are saying that I am a 'sadist'...because I must be inflicting pain on you, for my pleasure????
Shit,I know it must seem like 'torture'...but I'm only trying to get you to tell the truth!...or even recognize it!!!!!

Ouch ouch ouch!
Whip me..beat me..do a tap dance on my face with high heels..make me tell lies.....make my check book runaway..quick take it!

You're a hoot!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 13 - 03:20 AM

from HPA 2012 report.

The overall prevalence in 2011 was 1.5 per 1,000
population with the highest rates reported among men who have sex with men (MSM) (47 per 1,000)
and the black African community (37 per 1,000).

New diagnoses among MSM have been increasing since 2007 with 3,010 reports in 2011, representing
an all-time high. Direct and indirect measures of incidence show that the rate of HIV transmission in
this population remains high.

Recommendations
• Safe sex programmes promoting condom use and HIV testing remain a priority for MSM and black
African and Caribbean communities to reduce ongoing transmission and undiagnosed infection.
• HIV testing, which is free and confidential at services such as STI clinics, should be promoted among
higher risk groups to ensure individuals are aware of their HIV status. Specifically:
-- MSM should have an HIV/STI screen at least annually, and every three months if having unprotected
sex with new or casual partners.
-- Black Africans and Caribbeans should have an HIV test and should have regular HIV/STI screening if
having unprotected sex with new or casual partners.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 May 13 - 04:22 AM

Ian....for someone who claims to be involved in regional health services, your ignorance of the facts associated with HIV/AIDS is astonishing ...and rather frightening.

Why are you allowed to remain in your job if you are unable to understand the statistical evidence.

Hiv rates in IDUs have been falling for years, and are at present very low.
Do you really as a health care professional, not understand that MSMs are massively over represented in the HIV/AIDS figures?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 May 13 - 04:46 AM

""Homosexuality should certainly not be presented to our children as "just another lifestyle""

Only you and Gone from Sanity are claiming that it is a "lifestyle".

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Musket
Date: 03 May 13 - 06:06 AM

Akenaton _ I'm not a health care professional, and neither, thank Clapton are you.

Keith - When looking for statistics, look for the ones in discussion? Nobody is being complacent and the figures you quote, when drilled down regionally, are even more stark, especially BAC, sadly.

However, I was speaking of GU clinic take, which is just one service where HIV is occasionally diagnosed. ED (A&E to me & thee) picks up, as it were, far more, and elective screening most of the rest. The cost of antiretrovirals is immense, so targeting and helping people takes a lot of thought, a lot of analysis of facts and a hell of a lot of outreach. Demonising for bigoted or political reasons is an unnecessary distraction. There again, flipping to Mudcat to feed the trolls might be cathartic on a busy day, but if the general population were anything like as ignorant as you two prize twats, the HPA figures would spiral out of control.

My comments on increases in sexual health concerns have no bearing on the figures you quote, and those HPA figures are tied up in the substance misuse statistic. You try to appear intelligent so be so and read further. You will find that MSM is a group not a symptom, and substance misuse is highly prevalent. Hence the issues in linking transmission to sexual activity.

If highly vocal pond life such as many UKIP / BNP wannabe politicians and bigoted old men keep trying to inject hatred at the rate they do, substance misuse in a maligned set of people may well continue. If society insists on entertaining such pathetic views, stable monogamous relationships amongst gay people will be harder to be seen as acceptable.

You'd all just have to find someone else to hate. The clue is in the HPA stuff. The final recommendation isn't just MSM, so you can do an Enoch?

In the meantime, I shall remain in my job. Trying to reason with people with an agenda isn't something I enjoy doing, but reading some of the diatribe from you two at least reinforces my stance in the real world that evidence has to be treated in the entirety rather than subjectively if we are ever to tackle the issue of STDs, the myriad underlying causes and manage to address the red herrings brought about by people with despicable agendas. Out of interest, neither of you are in the same league as some we deal with and indeed answer to. At least they are challenging, mainly because they focus on facts, and healthcare provision isn't perfect.

Even The Daily Mail looks credible compared to you two...


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 13 - 06:59 AM

Musket, you call me ignorant when I have stated only facts.
It is not right or fair that MSMs are at a much greater risk of STIs, but they are.
Do not blame the messenger.
There is no hate in me.

I am not aware of MSMs having unusual levels of substance abuse.
I think you made that up.

You do not help your case by making stuff up and denying facts.
You must incorporate the facts as they are into your case.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 13 - 07:27 AM

and those HPA figures are tied up in the substance misuse statistic.

No they are not.
IDUs are not very high risk in UK.
MSMs are very high. The highest.

http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/hpawebfile/hpaweb_c/1317137200016


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: akenaton
Date: 03 May 13 - 09:25 AM

Keith....I think Ian may be referring to the use of (Crystal Meths?) etc which apparently is widely used by homosexuals during intercourse.

This use of what are said to be very dangerous drugs for the purpose of increasing the intensity of sex....is part and parcel of the risk taking which is associated with male homosexuality.
So should not be addressed seperately, despite what Ian implies.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 May 13 - 09:37 AM

Who knows.
Only injecting has any bearing on HIV, so Musket is just raising a spurious issue.

"Research in the UK29 that explored drug use levels among
MSM within the previous 12 months reported levels ranging
from 39.4% for poppers, 27.7% for cannabis, 18.5% for ecstasy
and 4.7% for methamphetamine (with significant regional
variations evident and highest usage in London.)30"
http://www.ihra.net/files/2012/09/04/Chapter_3.3_MSM_.pdf


Injectable drugs not even on the scale.
A wholly spurious issue.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 03 May 13 - 09:48 AM

Not sure if this link helps, hinders, or just muddies the waters? But I thought it was a good little movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noxZfoKTD5c


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 13 - 10:17 AM

Don T: "Only you and Gone from Sanity are claiming that it is a "lifestyle".

Well, actually we thought it was the nucleus for all family structures which all societies are based on....what did YOU think it was???

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Jeri
Date: 03 May 13 - 10:37 AM

So you thought homosexuality was "the nucleus for all family structures which all societies are based on"?
I thinking got fucked up somewhere.

Observation: any discussion of homosexuality that Ake gets involved in, he's going to try to turn it into a discussion of buttfucking, HIV and drugs. (As opposed to love, family, rights, and idiotic beliefs that exercise changes ones sexual preference.)

If you want to ride the train of obsession with him, forget whatever the thread was actually about.

If working out makes people straight, why are there so many buff gay guys? Think about that...


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 13 - 11:16 AM

jeri: "If working out makes people straight, why are there so many buff gay guys? Think about that..."

Trying to look 'pretty'? Think about that........

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 03 May 13 - 12:20 PM

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

There's a point! Quick!

No. Too late. You missed it.

Glad you know what illegal drugs gay people use to aid a good fuck. What did you and the missus use?

Disgusting. "Widely used by homosexual people during intercourse." Does your camera have a telephoto lens then?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 03 May 13 - 12:36 PM

"...and if I remember an earlier question of yours correctly, about your family relation, and what you said were the circumstances during the time of a pregnancy, you WILL find that the answer to your inquiry has more consistencies with what I've been saying, than any 'genetic' rhetoric!!
...and that is the plain truth...and I think you know it...and with all the condoning of 'it's in the genes, nothing can be done about it' rap, it leaves one without any answers to correct the things that caused the pain, to cause the issue at question.
(My, that was answered delicately).....

Best Wishes, Hope things come around, (there are some conciliatory open wounds, in your family that should be addressed and healed.)"

---------------------------------------------------------------------

You are a raving dickhead.

There is no pain. There are no open wounds. That is all made up in your twisted mind. I asked you no questions. I told you and others like you to fuck off because my family is perfectly happy (and more accomplished than you will ever be). So stop talking about my kids (and siblings and uncles and...) as if there is something wrong with them. It is highly offensive, and you only dare say it because you can hide behind your keyboard and your guest identity. I have zero respect for your opinion or your intellectual abilities. But you piss me off when you put words in my mouth (If I said them, go fucking find them please) to suit your sick arguments.

Never forget that my kids and their friends will outlive us both, and I will die happy that they are creating a better world. And you? Sorry, you lose.

Akenaton - we may vigorously disagree, but I appreciate your courtesy in this discourse.

GfS - may I repeat, you are a hopeless A-hole.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 03 May 13 - 01:28 PM

Just to make it perfectly clear to all what we are dealing with...
Please post a link to any post where I discussed anything close to "...the circumstances during the time of pregnancy..."
That came entirely out of your head. Entirely. But I suspect that in posting as different people you forget what any one of you has said and mistakenly attribute it to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 May 13 - 02:49 PM

TIA, he's trying to pull the same crapolla on you that he's been pulling on me. Goofballupagus is a writer of fiction.

To set the record straight, the radio station where I was news director was in Pasco, a small rural town in eastern Washington. It was an ABC affiliate, so for national news, I just flipped the switch at the top if the hour as I was instructed to do. The local news consisted of the farm report and mostly social news. An occasional accident on the nearby freeway. I did no editorializing or commentary.

Oh,yes. Frequent public service announcements that nearby Rattlesnake Mountain was aptly named, and that people hiking up there should keep their eyes open.

A news director is answerable to the station manager and Roger was essentially apolitical.

There should be no doubt by now in any intelligent person's mind that GfS is, indeed, a pathelogical liar.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 May 13 - 05:28 PM

My idols in the broadcast news business where people such as Eric Sevareid, Daniel Schorr, Walter Cronkite, and the granddaddy of them all, Edward R. Murrow.

During the time I was at KORD, Richard Nixon was president, and I had plenty of opinions about him. But my job was such that I didn't have an opportunity to voice them. But it was unnecessary, because other newsmen and commentators such as Eric Sevaried and others had plenty to say.

GfS apparently does not know the distinction between NEWS and EDITORIAL COMMENT. News deals with facts and answers the question, "what happened?" Commentary tries to ennunciate someone's opinion of why it happened, who's doing what to whom, and why are they doing it?

The six o'clock news on any of the "Big Three," ABC, CBS, and NBC, report the news. What events took place during the day. There may be a segment in the program for commentary, but that's always specified as "editorial opinion."

Fox News, on the other hand, does not separate news from opinion, and their programming is almost entirely opinion. They are anything but "fair and balanced."

I think Goofy reveals a great deal about himself with his allegations about my activities as a news man. He's not painting anywhere near an accurate picture of what a news man or even a news director's options are. They are required to follow the policies of the station. If you don't like the policy, don't work there. And the station where I worked as news director did not HAVE a political policy. Not that we didn't have opinions, but we had to keep them to ourselves.

If Goofball went to work as a newsman, assuming he could speak good English in general, speak standard American English (pronunciation), had a good, listenable voice, could write cohesive, grammatically correct sentences, had a fierce dedication to presenting the facts, and kept his opinions to himself unless assigned to do an opinion piece (which would be vetted first by the station manager or others in authority), then he might be allowed in the building.

But with what HE seems to think a newsman can get away with, he'd get his ass kicked out the door on the first day!

I think that in these threads, with his wild, imaginative, and denigrating fictions about various people about whom he knows nothing, he has more that graphically demonstrated his "fierce dedication to presenting the facts."

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 13 - 07:43 PM

TIA: "There is no pain. There are no open wounds. That is all made up in your twisted mind."

You brought it up, in the other thread.
...and yes, the time of pregnancy DOES affect the fetus, as even Don brought up(unwittingly) in one of hiss links.
Sorry, if I cared enough to answer you.

Don, are you talking to your 'audience' or anyone in particular?...or just yapping?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 May 13 - 08:30 PM

I am setting the record straight regarding my job as a news director, about which YOU hatched up a tissue of lies. This was for anyone out there who might blunder in and think you know anything about anything.

And what I said was that, according to knowledgeable people in the field, the sexual orientation of a fetus may be determined by the realease if hormones in utero after the genitals of the fetus are determined, and if mistimed, can affect the sexual orientation of the child. I did NOT say that the time of the pregnancy affects the fetus (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean).

You DO have trouble understanding plain English, apparently.

And I don't do anything "unwittingly." That's YOUR schtick.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 13 - 12:46 AM

..and this never happens......and it's the liberals favorite news source!

Now let's have some fun!

From: Don Firth
Date: 02 May 13 - 02:56 PM
"I will not be responding any more to your nasty and childish attempts to bait me, Goofball. You are a pathological liar through and through, with overtones of sadism. I will no longer respond to your problem."

Remember I said that YOU were the pathological liar, and even said 'how' and 'why'.....and by golly, you proved me right again!!

Firth: "...Only your desire to attack my credibility. Because I have the unfortunate habit of telling the truth and backing it up ..."


From: Jeri
Date: 03 May 13 - 10:37 AM

""So you thought homosexuality was "the nucleus for all family structures which all societies are based on"?
I thinking got fucked up somewhere.""

No, Jeri, I said, (and look at it carefully, then answer the question, in the privacy of yourself...you might get it, then)....


"Don T: "Only you and Gone from Sanity are claiming that it is a "lifestyle".
Well, actually we thought it was the nucleus for all family structures which all societies are based on....what did YOU think it was???""
(Hint: think facetiously.....then answer the question based on that)


...and then there is this gem:

Don Firth: "I am setting the record straight regarding my job as a news director, about which YOU hatched up a tissue of lies. This was for anyone out there who might blunder in and think you know anything about anything.
And what I said was that, according to knowledgeable people in the field, the sexual orientation of a fetus may be determined by the realease if hormones in utero after the genitals of the fetus are determined, and if mistimed, can affect the sexual orientation of the child. I did NOT say that the time of the pregnancy affects the fetus (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean)."


NOW PAY ATTENTION!:"the sexual orientation of a fetus may be determined by the realease if hormones in utero after the genitals of the fetus are determined, and if mistimed, can affect the sexual orientation of the child....."

In other words....IT'S NOT 'GENETIC'?????????....and the hormones directly affect receptors!!!...and vice verse.

When you get over being irately pissed off, re-read it again!!!!!!!


What was it you were saying?...ummmm oh yeah, "Don Firth: "I am setting the record straight regarding my job as a news director, about which YOU hatched up a tissue of lies."

Methinks you've spun yourself dizzy, AGAIN!


...and to dear TIA.....
TIA: "You are a raving dickhead."
THEN....(in the same post)
TIA: "GfS - may I repeat, you are a hopeless A-hole."

Well, you DID express a certain confusion that runs in your family....

BTW....that's MISTER A-hole, to you!


Having a great time watching you people profoundly manifest your utter confusion about life, and sanity....!

GfS

P.S......well shit...I did offer to help them.....but....


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Tia
Date: 04 May 13 - 01:26 AM

Post the link or you lose.
It is really simple.
So far you are losing.
Can you post the link?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 13 - 01:34 AM

"NOW PAY ATTENTION!:'the sexual orientation of a fetus may be determined by the release if hormones in utero after the genitals of the fetus are determined, and if mistimed, can affect the sexual orientation of the child.....'

"In other words....IT'S NOT 'GENETIC'?????????...."

It IS most certainly genetic. A combination of genes, possibly recessive, which sometimes express themselves, but not every time. The genetic combination is believed to be carried in the female line of the family, but generally does not affect them directly

There is general agreement among geneticists that sexual orientation IS genetic, but the genes do not always express themselves, which is the nature of recessive genes.

Basic Mendel.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 13 - 01:35 AM

First of all...what link?...
Next, Sister, I'm FAR from losing! You guys with the 'genetic' rap, are getting the shit knocked out of you!

(She loves me`~~~)

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 13 - 11:38 AM

Firth(who said he was going to stop this...but won't..or can't): "There is general agreement among geneticists that sexual orientation IS genetic, but the genes do not always express themselves, which is the nature of recessive genes."

But receptors DO manifest their activity and their influence over behavior, but they CAN be 're-trained'....and that is MORE than a 'general agreement' with psychologists, geneticists, rehab centers, religious folks, and politicians.....how do you think they get you to leave common sense, and make emotional issues out of thin air...then exploit their 'followers'???
It seems now that TWO of your influential 'studies' and your learned friends have stated as much....but then look the other way, and gloss over it, just to push that it is all 'genetic'...when it is clearly not.
Is a cup, a cup of tea, till you put tea in it???
Hardwired genetics can determine a male or female, right or left handedness, blond or brunette, two arms and two legs...but what you do with all those things is dependent on behavior. The notion that 'There's a woman trapped in this (male) body', is complete and utter nonsense...HOWEVER, how one INTERPRETS certain sensitivities, then attributes those 'feelings', is just a matter of INTERPRETATION and PERCEPTION of how and what someone THINKS is feminine(or masculine). Receptors influence what and how you CHOOSE to satisfy the urges of the receptors needs. Genetics will give one a REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM..FOR REPRODUCTION or the species..any species...one's fantasies of how to manifest sexual(reproductive) urges, again is NOT necessarily attributed to genes....however, the 'equipment' to reproduce is.
To understand the role of receptors, and how the 'create needs' emotional or otherwise, is on a video link that I already provided on here. Maybe you should re-visit it....and BTW, before anyone begins to criticize the video, take a hard look at the people behind it's production and writing....monsters in their fields!...and carry more weight than the 'studies' you put up!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 May 13 - 12:16 PM

You say I brought it up in the other thread. Post the link. If you cannot, it is proof that you fabricate things in your sick mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 13 - 12:17 PM

Don, when you argue with an idiot like GfS on his terms, he wins. There is only one question: why shouldn't gay people be treated like everyone else in our laws? It makes no difference if it's a choice, it it's genetic, if it's caused by early childhood nurture, or anything. None of that matters. What matters is that it exists, people actualy are gay, and we're supposed to treat everyone equally, both ethically and legally. That's the only debate.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 13 - 01:01 PM

Anonymous Guest, you are absolutely right.

Proverbs 26:4 -- Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him.

Translation: Don't waste your time arguing with an idiot, or you lower yourself to his level.

Goodbye, Goofball. Rave all you want, I'm right, you're an idiot, and that's all there is to it.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans respectability
Date: 04 May 13 - 01:09 PM

Bloody Hell Goofus. Even the Bible seems to have you weighed up!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 May 13 - 01:16 PM

I'm done too. Impossible to deal with a person who posts as multiple people and completely fabricates.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 13 - 01:59 PM

"I wanna argue! Where IS everybody!??"

Goofballupagus.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 May 13 - 03:49 PM

""The notion that 'There's a woman trapped in this (male) body', is complete and utter nonsense..""

As you have just proved that you don't even know the difference between homosexuals and transexuals, you obviously fit beautifully into the mould of opinionated fuckwit.

Get an education! Better yet, get a life!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 13 - 05:43 PM

I sent this a few hours ago...but it didn't post.
I have not read any of your posts, yet, (sorry to say....maybe..), so I'm re entering this.


Firth(who said he was going to stop this...but won't..or can't): "There is general agreement among geneticists that sexual orientation IS genetic, but the genes do not always express themselves, which is the nature of recessive genes."

But receptors DO manifest their activity and their influence over behavior, but they CAN be 're-trained'....and that is MORE than a 'general agreement' with psychologists, geneticists, rehab centers, religious folks, and politicians.....how do you think they get you to leave common sense, and make emotional issues out of thin air...then exploit their 'followers'???
It seems now that TWO of your influential 'studies' and your learned friends have stated as much....but then look the other way, and gloss over it, just to push that it is all 'genetic'...when it is clearly not.
Is a cup, a cup of tea, till you put tea in it???
Hardwired genetics can determine a male or female, right or left handedness, blond or brunette, two arms and two legs...but what you do with all those things is dependent on behavior. The notion that 'There's a woman trapped in this (male) body', is complete and utter nonsense...HOWEVER, how one INTERPRETS certain sensitivities, then attributes those 'feelings', is just a matter of INTERPRETATION and PERCEPTION of how and what someone THINKS is feminine(or masculine). Receptors influence what and how you CHOOSE to satisfy the urges of the receptors needs. Genetics will give one a REPRODUCTIVE SYSTEM..FOR REPRODUCTION or the species..any species...one's fantasies of how to manifest sexual(reproductive) urges, again is NOT necessarily attributed to genes....however, the 'equipment' to reproduce is.
To understand the role of receptors, and how the 'create needs' emotional or otherwise, is on a video link that I already provided on here. Maybe you should re-visit it....and BTW, before anyone begins to criticize the video, take a hard look at the people behind it's production and writing....monsters in their fields!...and carry more weight than the 'studies' you put up!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 13 - 07:30 PM

Final word.

From the Can-West Global News Service:

A Chicago genome researcher says he has found a group of genes that strongly influence whether a man is homosexual--not a single "gay gene," but a group of genes acting together. This provides at least part of the explanation for what makes men gay, a question that gene scientists have sought to solve for more than a decade.

The University of Illinois at Chicago and U.S. National Institutes of Health searched through the genes of 456 men from 146 families—each of which has at least two gay brothers, and have essentially determined that there are three genes, two genes from the X chromosome and one from the Y chromosome, acting in combination.

There is concern among some geneticists as to how some expectant parents will respond to this information. The fear is that some parents, if, prenatal DNA testing shows the fetus carries this combination of genes, may opt to terminated the pregnancy. An abortion of an otherwise perfectly normal human being—who is destined to be homosexual.

And to some parents, this may pose a real dilemma. Those who are opposed to both homosexuality—AND to abortion, who oftentimes are religious, holding a rigid set of beliefs on both subjects.

The research is reported in the Journal of Human Genetics.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 May 13 - 07:45 PM

Don Firth: "A Chicago genome researcher says he has found a group of genes that strongly influence whether a man is homosexual--not a single "gay gene," but a group of genes acting together. This provides at least part of the explanation for what makes men gay, a question that gene scientists have sought to solve for more than a decade."

"......This provides AT LEAST PART of the explanation for what makes men gay,....."


....any interest in the other PART?.....maybe abigger part??

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 May 13 - 11:21 PM

No link.
Absolute proof of fabrication.
Why should anyone listen to any further arguments?

Don Firth -
I really appreciate your efforts, but this is a total waste of your time. Please move on. I intend to (even though it is difficult not to respond to made-up crap).
TIA


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 May 13 - 11:48 AM

Crap????
Isn't that what you find when you put your head in the sand??...or is it what you find when you put your head in that 'other place'??
You've bought into the political definition, and response to the political definition, who have also put financial and agenda driven pressure on these 'studies'...but then you willfully ignore some of the 'findings', that poke holes in their 'studies'!.....and some of their 'findings' come right out of their 'studies'.....and they happen to coincide with what I'm saying, known psychological facts....and they contradict what they were 'hoping' to find, to bolster the agenda, that originally funded them!!
I'm ready to post a good link into the nature of receptors....but you don't seem too receptive....in other words BLOCKED!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 May 13 - 09:46 PM

(.....as everyone is exchanging e-mails, and messages discouraging each other NOT to learn anything new....besides, you know those 'know-it-alls'...they know EVERYTHING, so there is nothing they want to learn....because the know it all....but overlooked that 'ALL' is where they draw the line...that way they can stay deluded, and not have their bubble burst.....it's called 'unteachable'.....shhhh....which happens to be a symptom of a psychotic.)

Oh...just let me know.....shit, I might just post it anyway!
Hi Ake!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: frogprince
Date: 05 May 13 - 10:14 PM

(whistling ducks in the wilds of existentialism, totally refusing, the flags of the lack of the normal instinct to reproduce, denying the overwhelming success of conversion therapy, symptomatic of total obliviousness to the divine inspiration of heterosexual music...idiots, idiots, idiots)

Hello, Salvidor Dali


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 05 May 13 - 10:58 PM

fucking brilliant fp!
hahahahahahahaha


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 May 13 - 11:00 AM

And your post makes better sense than Ex Sane's ravings FP.

I think..........!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 May 13 - 12:27 PM

Here is a link that goes into these areas: (if you are REALLY interested).
Genetic Studies
Hormonal Studies
Neuroanatomic Studies
References

Have fun!...it covers the results of all the main thoughts on the subject

An excerpt:..The increasing claims of being "born that way" parallels the rising political activism of homosexual organisations, who politicise the issue of homosexual origins . In the 1970s, approximately ten percent of homosexuals claimed to be "born homosexual" according to a large scale survey.[3]
However, in a survey in the 1980s, with the homosexual rights movement increasingly becoming active, thirty-five percent claimed to be born that way.[4]"

Another except:.. "There are some homosexuals who would like to and probably could change their sexual orientation. Because some homosexual groups maintain contrary to the bulk of scientific evidence that preferential or exclusive homosexuality can never be changed, these people may be discouraged from seeking adequate psychiatric consultation. What is more deplorable is that this myth may also be accepted by some physicians...The physician who is not alert to the orientation of the homosexual patient may not challenge the belief in sexual irreversibility and arrange for appropriate referral[12]." It is possible that the Council on Scientific Affairs of the American Medical Association may review its policies due to lobbying by pro-homosexual organisations."

Another excerpt: "(c) Another factor which makes genetic theories implausible are cultural considerations relating to attitudes towards homosexual behaviour. The prevalence of such behaviour increases in cultures indifferent to such behaviour, and a casual attitude towards sex in general...


Dr. Baron, from the Department of Psychiatry, Columbia University, New York, commented in the British Medical Journal recently that " it would be difficult to envisage a change in the prevalence of a genetic trait merely in response to changing cultural norms[8] ."

....................................................................
The link that I have for the explaining how receptors work, and they do a great job, can be found at: (this link only explains how they work, it does NOT address the homosexual question....just how receptors work.
Here's the whole movie.....the part on receptors comes out post mid point Be patient, there is a lot of great stuff in here!...and NOTE the references!!!

Check it out if you wish to NOT remain unlearned in the subject other than the 'political' view, which is rather limited and skewed!!

GfS

P.S. I posted about their results more than three years ago, not from these sources..but watching it unfold as political agendas were affecting known scientific facts, and causing psychologists to adopt their views...even before their bogus, incomplete studies. That is also covered in the other link I gave you.

We'll see how many are really interested in the FACTS rather than the notion!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 May 13 - 12:48 PM

...and here's a list of featured speakers from different fields on the video link:

Jeffrey Satinover. Psychiatrist for over 20 years. Completed a Master's Degree as a member of the Theoretical Condensed Matter Physics group. Until recently, a teaching fellow and doctoral student in the Dept. of Physics at Yale University, where he studied supersymmetric many-body "theory" as applied to quantum computation. Author of several books that speculate on Quantum Mechanics as he applies it to conscious thought.

    David Albert. Physicist, Philosopher of Physics and Professor, Columbia University. Initially interviewed for this movie under the guise of giving a discussion on Quantum Mechanics.

    Stuart Hameroff. Professor in the Department of Anesthesiology and Psychology. Director of the Center for Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona in Tucson, Arizona. 150 "peer reviewed" papers including three co-authored with Roger Penrose. Believes all his academic achievements give him the authority to violate the philosophy of science (the Scientific Method is not in a position to comment on the supernatural).

    Lynne McTaggart. Author of the book "The Field" and "What Doctors Don't Tell You". Founder and Editor of the publishing house of newsletters and books of "Alternative" health and spirituality, including the newsletter titled "What Doctors Don't Tell You". Speaks on consciousness, what she calls "new physics", and alternative medicine.

    Candace Pert. Doctorate and Post-Doctorate of Pharmacology. Educated at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. Published over 250 scientific articles on peptides and their receptors and their role in the immune system.

    Joseph Dispenza. Studied Biochemistry at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, N.J. Has a "Doctor of Chiropractic degree" from Life University. Member of the International Chiropractic Honor Society and follower of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment (popularly seen as a cult). Has released a DD series, Your Immortal Brain, which "looks at the ways in which the human brain can be used to create reality through the mastery of thought." He does not hold any qualifications relevant to the field of Quantum Mechanics.

    Andrew B. Newberg. Assistant professor of Radiology at University of Pennsylvania Hospital. Physician in Nuclear Medicine. Co-author of the book "Why God won't go away: Brain Science and Biology of Belief". Has argued that the integration of science and religion is critical for a better understanding of how human beings think and behave in a global context. Trained in medical sciences as opposed to physical sciences, Dr. Newberg is not in a position to make predictions and speculation on how Quantum Mechanics works in the Macroscopic world.

    Dean Radin. Senior Scientist at the "Institute of Noetic Sciences". Serves as adjunct faculty at Sonoma State University and on the Distinguished Consulting Faculty at Saybrook Graduate School in San Fransisco. BSEE (hons) in electrical engineering from the University of Massachusetts, MS electric engineering and PhD Psychology from University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. Has an extensive list of "qualifications" in Parapsychology and "Psi" research. He is not formally qualified in Quantum Mechanics, despite his impressive resume in Electric and Electronic engineering fields.

    John Hagelin. Lecturer and "Professor of Physics" at Maharishi University of Management (which was founded by the late Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and has been described as the practice of Transcendental Meditation as a cult as opposed to culture, and as a grandiose narcissistic dream, a form of intellectual bondage, that they call Enlightenment). "Minister of Science and Technology" of the "Global Country of World Peace". Is cited in the movie's website as holding an A.B., and M.A., and a PhD although strangely the site does not list what those degrees are in. Is specified as a "World reknowned Quantum Physicist" on the site. In actuality, his scientific credits and work continued in 1984 at the Maharishi University of Management. Began "research" in 1987, published two papers in '87 and '89, published in the "Journal of Modern Science and Vedic Science" on the "relationship between physics and consciousness".


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 13 - 01:19 PM

Every one of the "References" is between 20 and 53 years old.
Not very up-to-date science.
But it sure does support a 1950's viewpoint.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 May 13 - 01:33 PM

...and how long ago did they discover that the earth revolved around the sun??....would a later opinion change that fact?

Here's something from 2010"

"Recent Article from ScienceDaily

February 2010: Potential Evolutionary Role for Same-Sex Attraction

Male homosexuality doesn't make complete sense from an evolutionary point of view. It appears that the trait is heritable, but because homosexual men are much less likely to produce offspring than heterosexual men, shouldn't the genes for this trait have been extinguished long ago? What value could this sexual orientation have, that it has persisted for eons even without any discernible reproductive advantage?

One possible explanation is what evolutionary psychologists call the "kin selection hypothesis." What that means is that homosexuality may convey an indirect benefit by enhancing the survival prospects of close relatives. Specifically, the theory holds that homosexual men might enhance their own genetic prospects by being "helpers in the nest." By acting altruistically toward nieces and nephews, homosexual men would perpetuate the family genes, including some of their own.

Two evolutionary psychologists, Paul Vasey and Doug VanderLaan of the University of Lethbridge, Canada tested this idea for the past several years on the Pacific island of Samoa. They chose Samoa because males who prefer men as sexual partners are widely recognized and accepted there as a distinct gender category -- called fa'afafine -- neither man nor woman. The fa'afafine tend to be effeminate, and exclusively attracted to adult men as sexual partners. This clear demarcation makes it easier to identify a sample for study.

Past research has shown that the fa'afafine are much more altruistically inclined toward their nieces and nephews than either Samoan women or heterosexual men. They are willing to babysit a lot, tutor their nieces and nephews in art and music, and help out financially -- paying for medical care and education and so forth. In a new study, the scientists set out to unravel the psychology of the fa'afafine, to see if their altruism is targeted specifically at kin rather than kids in general.

They recruited a large sample of fa'afafine, and comparable samples of women and heterosexual men. They gave them all a series of questionnaires, measuring their willingness to help their nieces and nephews in various ways -- caretaking, gifts, teaching -- and also their willingness to do these things for other, unrelated kids. The findings, reported on-line this week in the journal Psychological Science, lend strong support to the kin selection idea. Compared to Samoan women and heterosexual men, the fa'afafine showed a much weaker link between their avuncular -- or uncle like -- behavior and their altruism toward kids generally. This cognitive dissociation, the scientists argue, allows the fa'afafine to allocate their resources more efficiently and precisely to their kin -- and thus enhance their own evolutionary prospects.

To compensate for being childless, each fa'afafine would have to somehow support the survival of two additional nieces or nephews who would otherwise not have existed. "If kin selection is the sole mechanism by which genes for male same-sex sexual attraction are maintained over time," the fa'afafine must be "super uncles" to earn their evolutionary keep, explains Vasey. Consequently, Vasey suggests "that the fa'afafine's avuncularity probably contributes to the evolutionary survival of genes for male same-sex sexual attraction, but is unlikely to entirely offset the costs of not reproducing."

Do these findings have any meaning outside of Samoa? Yes and no. Samoan culture is very different from most Western cultures. Samoan culture is very localized, and centered on tight-knit extended families, whereas Western societies tend to be highly individualistic and homophobic. Families are also much more geographically dispersed in Western cultures, diminishing the role that bachelor uncles can play in the extended family, even if they choose to. But in this sense, the researchers say, Samoa's communitarian culture may be more -- not less -- representative of the environment in which male same-sex sexuality evolved eons ago. In that sense, it's not the bachelor uncle who is poorly adapted to the world, but rather the modern Western world that has evolved into an unwelcoming place."


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 13 - 04:02 PM

The above article is very good. The thing that puzzles me is why GfS chose to post it. Perhaps it's because of the final paragraph, in which the author seems to be trying to negate what the previous part of the article is saying—and which, up until that point, which makes a great deal of sense from an evolutionary standpoint.

Note:   In Indonesia a few years back, the government tried to encourage homosexuality in an effort to slow Indonesia's burgeoning population problem.   Despite persuasion and offering certain encouragements to those who would "opt" to become homosexual, the attempt was a complete failure.

Despite the government offered incentives, no one "chose" to change their sexual orientation.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 May 13 - 05:02 PM

Firth: "Note:   In Indonesia a few years back, the government tried to encourage homosexuality in an effort to slow Indonesia's burgeoning population problem."

Yes, and when I said the same thing, as proposed by Rockefeller's agenda for America, to model it after China's model, you objected to that position!....so make up your fucking mind!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 13 - 05:13 PM

GfS, I was the one who posted that item on a previous thread a couple of years ago.

I case you missed the point, it indicates pretty clearly that one does not simply choose to change one's sexual orientation, even when it might be advantageous to do so.

Are you all right? What you've been posting recently is very erratic and self-contradictory.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 13 - 06:53 PM

Anybody who is still with this thread, Google "Rockefeller's agenda for America homosexual" and look at the sort of web sites it takes you to.

That's the kind of place where Goofballupagus gets his information.

'Nuff said.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 May 13 - 11:48 PM

Sanity person has not been able to post a link that shows that they did not entirely fabricate the discourse to which they were referring (and BTW they will not be able to - but you knew that).

This individual is truly incapable of discriminating fact from fantasy.

Thus Don (and others), I really discourage any further engagement.

In some ways, it feels cruel to participate.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 May 13 - 01:50 PM

Sounds like you two get a little nervous when people who you think you are influencing get closer to the truth!.....Oh, wait a minute...umm...let me see.....t-r-u-t-h.....you what??...never heard of it????
Let me help.................

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: frogprince
Date: 07 May 13 - 07:19 PM

".....t-r-u-t-h....."

Guess what; a website making a tremendous effort to appear intellectual and literate, beginning with absolutely fundamentalist presuppostions, including the certainty that all the "logic" presented will prove the initial presuppositions. The real underlying "proof" of it all? The certainty that every word of the Bible was determined by the finger of God jamming into the brain of each writer who contributed to the Bible, pouring in content which then poured out through the writer's pen unto the page.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 13 - 11:04 PM

"There is no truth in numbers"

Says it all.....


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 12:52 AM

Nonetheless, its in the receptors, and influence of them both physiologically, and in the neurological system that is the major influence. Studies show that this influence of receptors, in a stressed mother, is the reason the hypothalamus enlarges....plus, as I've said before in different threads, and different circumstances, "The energy you put into a system, tends to change that system!"
Certain genes with certain markers tend to be more affected than others..thus the highly biased 'studies' are heralded for 'finding the magic gene'.....nope!..they found the ones more affected by stressed hormones, cause by the receptors!
Even Don's links say as much, but he didn't know what they glossed over.....besides, he WANTED to believe in was genetic, so he blinded himself to taking in ALL the information, objectively.
...and that may go for some of you 'casual observers'. What is needed, is the 'impartial observer'......then it ain't so bad...the chips fall where they fall, and don't have to answer or promote a predetermined outcome.
Sounds like science.....
Doesn't sound like political agendas!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 May 13 - 05:42 AM

So why then are all your links sourced from Psychiatrists, Psychologists, Physicists, Chemists and even an expert in "Transcendental Meditation".

What's the matter?.....Couldn't find an ALCHEMIST?

One thing these people all share, none of them knows diddly squat about genetics.

In fact, Geneticists are the one group of experts whose input you have carefully and oh so persistently excluded, not too surprisingly since they are the only ones qualified to destroy your pet idee fixe.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 02:11 PM

Don T, You must be short on comprehension. I said that the video link is NOT about homosexuality, one way or the other, but there was a segment on 'receptors' and what they do, and how they function. The fact that the video, was dealing with different subjects, related to the different speakers, on their various subjects, really has NO bearing on what they were talking about that was not related.
I do commend you, however, for at least watching the video. I think you may agree, that the segment on receptors was very illuminating....may even shed some light on the subject at hand...and that is 'receptors'.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 May 13 - 02:27 PM

""I do commend you, however, for at least watching the video. I think you may agree, that the segment on receptors was very illuminating....may even shed some light on the subject at hand...and that is 'receptors'.""

At last an admission of thread drift, not germane to the issue and a subject for a separate thread.

So why, given that admission, have you been regularly banging on about receptors in every gay thread?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 02:59 PM

Sorry, hit the wrong button.

Because 'receptors' have a function of setting up the neurological system in the fetus. Being as the fetus, is attached directly to the mother's biological system for nourishment, and the formation of all the various functions, that a child is born with....circulatory, digestion, neurological, reproductive etc etc....OK?...now when the mother is stressed, or bitter, or resentful...or even happy and calm, those emotions she is going through, and the neurological signals, are being directly sent to the fetus. The receptors, being formed, in essence, are being programmed, in the womb, to be predisposed, as to the signals they are going to respond to, once born. for instance, if something strikes you as 'funny', you laugh. Something strikes you as 'sad', you may have a 'less than happy' response....If a child is born, with a predisposition to 'resent', or resent the 'father figure', then he will be readily 'triggered', to have those 'receptors' respond and be activated, as they were in the womb..much like a child can be born with a chemical addiction, 'receptors' are predisposed to respond, but not to a physical/chemical addiction, but to an emotional 'addiction'(if you will). Upon satisfying their need, to transmit neurological signals, they then are 'gratified' by the brain releasing dopamine. This is pretty well explained in the video.

I will pick this up a little later, but A have an appointment to get ready for. Just think about what I laid out for you. It is a non biased anatomical FACT. How it ties in, I'll get into when I get back.
Ignore, at this point, any half-witted blusterer trying to dispute this as a political point of view...it is strictly medical, and accurate.

I'll be back.....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: frogprince
Date: 08 May 13 - 03:35 PM

Gfs, just a thought or two:
In seventy years of life, I have encountered a very few people who might equal you in your tendency to spew out totally unwarrented vile things about others. Fewer still tended to besmirch the family members, of whom they they knew nothing, of those they slandered.
I have known and spent extensive time with so many hundreds of conservative-to-very-strictly-fundamentalist Christians that I don't know where to start on on actual estimate. I may disagree with a lot of their beliefs now, but very, very few of them have been habitually foul-mouthed at all. I'm aware of Fred Phelps, and Ann Coulter, but I've been largely fortunate enough to know their ilk only from the media.
In all these years, I cannot think of any single person I've encountered before who with one breath expressed a commitment to Christianity or Christian morality, and with the next breath pumped out anything like the slime that you've tried to inflict on people on a regular basis.
You may now proceed to say why you consider these observations to be idiotic.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 May 13 - 05:36 PM

Goofball's little dissertation on "receptors" and the mother's moods and attitudes and such being transmitted to the fetus is something I have heard before.

In 1950, science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard branched out into his own brand of psychology when he published "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health."

Hubbard maintained that things that affected the moods and attitudes of an expectant mother were perceived by the fetus and stored in the subconscious "reactive mind" as what Hubbard called "engrams." Engrams, of course, cause all kinds of psychological problems—the whole catalog—and trained "auditors" could "clear" a person (patient) of their engrams and restore them to perfect mental health.

A whole batch of people jumped on the bandwagon, took the very short course in "auditing," and set themselves up in business.

During the Fifties, I was stomping around the University of Washington campus using a pair of forearm crutches. I had several people approach me and say that if I'd sign up for several "auditing sessions," I could throw the crutches away and walk normally.

Odd! I always thought poliomyelitis was caused by a virus. I didn't know that I got it because my mother was feeling cranky when she was pregnant with me!

It wasn't long before the appropriate Medical and Psychiatric organizations declared Dianetics a "pseudoscience."

And shortly after that, Hubbard, fearing bad publicity for he and his followers, and such things as charges of malpractice, declared Dianetics to be a "religion," and called it "The Church of Scientology," thus claiming the protections of Freedom of Religion.

The rest is history.

What Goofball is saying about the mother's mood affecting the fetus through "receptors" sounds exactly like what L. Ron Hubbard was peddling in "Dianetics."

He claims he's a "family counselor." Dianetics auditor, perhaps? Or a priest in the Church of Scientology?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 08:57 PM

frogprince, Your comments are understandable, and I can see your point. I'll comment on them as soon as I have more time...

As to Don Firth: ..(I just posted this in my last post): "Ignore, at this point, any half-witted blusterer trying to dispute this as a political point of view...it is strictly medical, and accurate.
I'll be back....."

Dianetics have NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about...it's just another one of your 'tactical distractions'.

I'll get back shortly.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 May 13 - 09:07 PM

Quack! Quack! Quack! Quack. . . .

Donald Duck


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 May 13 - 11:39 PM

Well, at least your intelligence is rising!

gfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:20 AM

Goofball, that was a cartoon character expressing everybody's opinion of your competence as a family counselor, which you have claimed to be.

Or are you a screen writer as you have also claimed to be?

Or write film scores as you have also claimed to do?

And on the seventh day, do you rest?

Don Firth

P. S. I don't know what all else you have claimed to be because, frankly, I generally don't bother to read all of your posts after I get the gist of what you are groping around and attempting to say.


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 May 13 - 05:41 AM

Guest-from Sanity, are you saying that the mother's moods, experiences, hormone swings, traumas or pleasures have a direct influence on the developing brain of the foetus, and therefore will produce character traits and even determine sexuality? If so, have any studies been done on identical twins, (who presumably are subject to identical influences in utero) and do they have identical personality traits after birth and in later life? Furthermore, are there examples of identical twin gay siblings? (This is all starting to sound horribly like a Mengele theory of eugenics. He apparently was most interested in twins, for equally sinister reasons.) In my experience of twins among my pupils, each pair of identical twins showed an amazing difference in their personalities. One was more timid, more withdrawn and more compliant etc while the other was invariably bolder, more confident and sometimes more naughty. I have to repeat that even if a child is 'born gay', it doesn't matter, and they can BE gay and marry etc as they wish. Whyever not? Perhaps the homophobics here are travelling down the road of 'identifying' gay foetuses in the womb and aborting (ie murdering) them to prevent the birth of (gasp!) yet another gay abomination. I DO hope NOT!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 13 - 10:49 AM

It seems that the homophobe is now arguing that being gay is congenital as opposed to genetic. Okay, let's say it is...
How is anything congenital a "lifestyle choice"?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 May 13 - 12:57 PM

One reason that geneticists have been reluctant to come on too strong about tying same-sex orientation with genetics or genetic components or a congenital condition is the fear that with so many people these days getting prenatal testing for the expected child (usually on the lookout for things such as Down's syndrome or other birth defects—or wanting to know ahead of time the sex of the child) is that if the parents know ahead of time that the child will be gay, they may opt for terminating the pregnancy. Abortion.

Now that same-sex orientation is perfectly acceptable to a large percentage of civilized people, the gay and lesbian people I'm acquainted with are perfectly happy with themselves and are leading normal, productive, fulfilling lives.

So what's the beef?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 May 13 - 01:46 PM

Eliza: "Perhaps the homophobics here are travelling down the road of 'identifying' gay foetuses in the womb and aborting (ie murdering) them to prevent the birth of (gasp!) yet another gay abomination. I DO hope NOT!"

Gawd, I hope not!...but you never know...if it becomes politically correct, who knows what they'll come up with!

As to the twins, not all twins are identical down to the last follicle. What I am say, (well not just me), is that the pregnancy has a lot to do with setting up certain systems of the fetus. Keeping in mind, that the moods and emotions, experienced by the mother, is directly connected to the developing fetus.
Now in the case of 'receptors', they have a MAJOR influence of perception...if the mother(or anyone), is perceiving an issue, that causes a mood swing, it does not mean that she is perceiving it accurately, BUT to her, her mood is accurate and real, and true. Regardless, the hormones released, are released as if the perception is real. These hormones have a direct effect on the fetus, in several areas, and can, and does shape elements of the predisposition of the child.
I don't think this is too hard to understand. For instance, expectant mothers are advised not to drink alcohol, or smoke during pregnancy, or take drugs etc etc. It is also wise for the father, to 'cover' the expectant mother. What I mean by 'cover' is being actively involved in loving both of them, and making sure that the mother is not overly stressed out, or burdened during this time. Some of the numbskulls may disagree with this, but a woman's body and psyche, are geared and hardwired, for bearing children. That SHOULD be honored and respected, nurtured and appreciated. Instead, we have sunk to the level of 'judging' a woman's worth, by merely her looks, or how she dresses or has 'sex appeal', rather than how she performs as a loving mother....which in reality, is the crown that she wears!!

More on 'receptors', shortly but I would like to address a certain moron, who worked his delusions up from political agendas, then turns them into his realities, then bad mouths everyone who doesn't subscribe to his delusions.....

Don Firth: "Goofball, that was a cartoon character expressing everybody's opinion of your competence as a family counselor, which you have claimed to be."

Yes, I'm fully aware that you are into cartoon characters. They inspire you!

Don: "Or are you a screen writer as you have also claimed to be?"

Yes, I have written both the screen version and playwright version....

Don: "Or write film scores as you have also claimed to do?"

.....and composed the music score as well!

Don: "And on the seventh day, do you rest?"

Some people esteem one day more than another....frankly, it's all one big day!

Now go waste some more of your time thinking of snot, and snotty things!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 May 13 - 06:17 PM

If a person is a happy, productive and contributing member of society, but they happen to be attracted to a member of their own sex, and if they happen to be happily partnered with another person who is similarly oriented—and if they in no way impinge on the lives of others in a negative way, then why should anyone else have anything to say about the matter?

The nature of their relationship is their business and no one else's.

And if someone else constantly yammers on about how "unnatural" or "immoral" or "disgusting" they are, that's their problem, not the problem of the same-sex couple.

=======

Guest from Sanity, the fact that if "gay" is in the title of a thread, you go for it like a moth to a flame says a great deal more about you than it does about the subject. I don't know what your problem is, but it's obvious that you are obsessed with the subject and you will do all manner of backflips and twists to avoid any idea that same-sex orientation is inborn, whether genetic or congenital, and insist that it is a free choice. Apparently, according to you, someone wakes up in the morning and says, "Gee! I think I'll be gay!"

I think the problem is that you are a closet gay and are terrified of coming out of the closet even to yourself, and are in severe denial.

And your hysterical response to anyone who insists that the scientific findings indicate that it either is genetic or at least has a genetic component, indicates your fear. You don't present any reasonable arguments against the scientific data other than to claim that it's "politics" and then you attack the person, such as me, posting the argument.

You attack me with childish insults and you go so far as to attack my family when you don't know anything about my family, and then on the basis of the fictions you concoct, you attack my moral character.

And as far as your other claims are concerned, if you are indeed a family counselor, you have established that you haven't the vaguest knowledge of the principles of psychology and are, therefore, a charlatan.

Screen writer and writer of film scores? I note that you don't mention the name or names of the films you have written or composed music for. And you may as well not try to bull anybody because one can easily look up that kind of information on the Internet Movie Data Base. Or is your script and music something you wrote on speculation and never got produced?

GfS, you are seriously in need of help.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 12:30 AM

Don, you post is so fucked up and loaded with putting words in people's mouths, I'd have to go line by line though it to point out your deluded deceptions.
The first part above the lines is not relevant. Nobody has said those things..except you, in saying they said it.

Below the line: Don: "Guest from Sanity, the fact that if "gay" is in the title of a thread, you go for it like a moth to a flame says a great deal more about you than it does about the subject. I don't know what your problem is, but it's obvious that you are obsessed with the subject and you will do all manner of backflips and twists to avoid any idea that same-sex orientation is inborn, whether genetic or congenital, and insist that it is a free choice. Apparently, according to you, someone wakes up in the morning and says, "Gee! I think I'll be gay!"

To bad you took it that way...it just shows how dumb you are.


Don: "And your hysterical response to anyone who insists that the scientific findings indicate that it either is genetic or at least has a genetic component, indicates your fear."

Actually this all started when, (if you remember), YOU were the one who was insisting that it was a 'Civil Rights' issue, the same as the civil rights movement based on the race issue of the 60's.....and I pointed out to you, that LEGALLY it couldn't be argued on the same basis, because the one during the 60's had to do with RACE, CREED or COLOR, as the law states....you went ape-shit trying to say it was 'genetic'...when in fact it is not genetic...and ever since you've been try to be stuffing words in my mouth, and arguing points that YOU bring up, in 'rebuttal' to things I never said..and then get into your bag of 'political trick tactics', to discredit, distract, and just be a dickhead. You care more about a political agenda..if it's right or wrong, you don't give a shit, based on facts, you don't give a shit, nor do you give a shit about the truth. If you remember, I posted "Go for the truth, and let the chips fall where they fall...but base you arguments on the truth, not a cooked up agenda, that got cooked up because of corruption. Now, is that too fucking hard?????

Don: "Then you say:
"I think ......"

There you go again....working without tools!

..oh, and I'm NOT a closet homosexual. (Stupid accusation)..besides, if I was wouldn't I be applauding you for making it 'cool' to come out of the closet???..but as it is, calling me a homosexual, as an insult to discredit, actually shows what YOU really think of them!!!! but maybe you haven't faced that reality, too...but then, if you blew off your two bed buddies, you might not have ANY friends...so I guess can see why you're so desperate!

Don: "And as far as your other claims are concerned, if you are indeed a family counselor, you have established that you haven't the vaguest knowledge of the principles of psychology and are, therefore, a charlatan."

Another stupid attempt at discrediting....You DON'T know me, and you really are making an ass of yourself....so shut the fuck up, about things you know NOTHING about. Stick to lying...THAT you know about!

Don: "GfS, you are seriously in need of help."

Should I take your advice...as from a learned, credentialed counselor??....or are you just having diarrhea of the fingers?

Don: "You attack me with childish insults and you go so far as to attack my family when you don't know anything about my family, and then on the basis of the fictions you concoct, you attack my moral character."

What moral character?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 13 - 12:59 AM

Your hysterical and frantic response is proof that my post was right on the mark.

'Nuff said.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 02:06 AM

What????...There you go again!!!

Hey, remember you said you weren't going to engage this kind of shit with me again???..more proof that you just lie your ass off, and try to turn it around. So do yourself and Mudcat a favor, and stop your crappy exchanges with me, just because you've lost your mind, argument, point and sense of reality..OK?
You can't post with me without your ever growing nose interfering, and hitting extra letters on the keyboard!
I know it will be rough on ya', but you keep diverting the thread with your putrid, pedantic, political punditry...The politicizing of distorted takes, on the agenda driven 'findings', is a completely stupid waste of time, not to mention, you've been shot down virtually every time.....THEN you maintain that I haven't been a counselor, which if that was the case, you must be really a lot stupider than you take into account, being eaten alive by a 'charlatan'!
Fact is, this is NOT a contest. It SHOULD be an exchange of information to get to the truth....which if I'm correct, back in the 60's, your age group just 'didn't get it'...and still don't!
Idiots like you is what the 'peace movement' rebelled against, and you guys just adopted...or tried to adopt, the language....but still, just never 'got it'!

GfS

P.S....and still haven't!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 13 - 02:32 AM

Yup! Really got him pegged.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 May 13 - 05:47 AM

Don, I agree with every word of your 06.17pm post. I would add that even NOT being 'happily partenered', but instead embarking on a course of rampant promiscuity, a gay person has every right to conduct their sexual lives as they wish. I often feel that strident and vicious verbal homophobic attacks by posters here (and elsewhere in the real world) may stem from an innate tendency towards homosexuality, of which the poster is deeply ashamed and in denial. The 'cause' of homosexuality (or any kind of sexuality!) is totally irrelevant. Whether it is a conscious 'choice' or an inherited or congenital 'condition' is absolutely of no importance or concern. It certainly does NOT need to be 'prevented', 'cured' or 'corrected', what a cheek! I have always loved cats, even as a toddler. I'm drawn to them and have always had several as pets. My mother was the same. Whether I was 'born' with this love or 'copied' my mother or 'took it upon myself' to be a cat-lover is neither here nor there. It does no harm, it gives me joy and I defend the right to be so. What pray is the difference, when you look at it objectively?


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 May 13 - 05:50 AM

Partnered - my arthritic fingers won't behave on the keyboard this morning!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 07:43 PM

Eliza: "a gay person has every right to conduct their sexual lives as they wish...."
Being as the issue is what people do with their REPRODUCTIVE organs, does that mean Including procreation with each other????

Don, you haven't 'pegged' anything..if anything you are coming apart at the seams!
I guess you think if you 'pronounce it' it becomes fact....look up 'delusional'!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 13 - 08:06 PM

Eliza has the right of it.

And once again, GfS, your hysteria betrays you;. You've totally lost any objectivity you ever had and think you can make your arguments true by attacking and insulting me. The last refuge of person who knows he's dead wrong.

Crawl back under the sink where you belong.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 May 13 - 09:31 PM

A parable for the totally clueless:

Mrs. Slocum walked the whole nineteen miles down from the mountain cabin that she shared with her husband and eighteen children to the settlement infirmary. She was heavily pregnant and about to deliver.

She had made this journey every year since she and her husband had married.

After she had the baby, the doctor wrapped the newborn child in a blanket and handed him to his mother.

"Well, Mrs. Slocum, that's number nineteen, right?" said the smiling doctor.

"Yup," responded the taciturn Mrs. Slocum.

"Then I guess we'll be seeing you again next year," remarked the doctor, as she prepared to leave for the nineteen mile trek back up the mountain.

"Nope!" said Mrs. Slocum.

"Oh?" said the doctor, "You're not going to have any more children?

"Nope!" said Mrs. Slocum. "We found out what was doin' it!"

=======

People do not fall in love and get married for the sole purpose of having children. They fall in love because they find each other sexually attractive (they're wired that way), because they like each other (which is a component of, but not quite the same as love), and because they take pleasure in each other's company and have sufficient interests and beliefs in common to want to spend their lives together. Sexual activity and the pleasure it gives is natural part of such a relationship. And children are a by-product of sexual activity.

That's nature's way of perpetuating the species. But perpetuating the species is not the responsibility of every, or any particular, married couple.

However—if having a brood of babies were the only reason for getting married, then why all the research into, and the large market for, reliable birth-control products? Why do married women sometimes get abortions? Why do married people sometimes go to great lengths to be able to indulging in sex without having children?

Although children can be a wonder and a delight, and are usually wanted by married couples, sharing a life together means far more than the desire to have children.

And some people, for one reason or another, cannot have children. Does this mean they should not be allowed to get married and share their lives?

Childless couples are not always bereft of children.   Often there are nieces and nephews, neighbor's children, children of friends. And it's not at all unheard of that a childless couple can be better friends to a child than his or her own parents!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 10:39 PM

Don's off on another tangent again.

gfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 May 13 - 10:48 PM

Here, Don, Chanty Lass has some words, that may concern you!


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 May 13 - 02:13 AM

You're funny, GoofuS.

Skitter back under the sink now, like a good little cockroach.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 May 13 - 11:18 AM

...and thank you Mr. firth, for your in depth analysis.


Now go consult with your political hacks, as how to twist and manipulate the truth, and demonize anyone who calls you on it.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 May 13 - 02:42 PM

But I don't want to steal your rountine.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 May 13 - 03:47 PM

Don: "But I don't want to steal your rountine."

Now are making up words, TOO?????
Jeez!...And I only thought you did it to facts!

GfS

P.S. "Good night, Gracie"


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 May 13 - 03:56 PM

You know, you can make more out of a typo than anyone I know of.

But then, that's all you've got.

Goodbye, Goofball. You're boring me.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 May 13 - 04:29 PM

Finally!.....Again.....and Again!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: P.E. stops you being gay?
From: GUEST,Musket sans respectability
Date: 12 May 13 - 03:58 AM

Just get a room?


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