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BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 14 - 12:54 PM "Over eighty kilograms of explosives were built into the UN-funded hospital's walls themselves, it was cleared for publication Thursday - revealing that the clinic itself was built to mask, and perform, potential acts of terror on the IDF. Moreover, the clinic was built over tens of terror tunnels, according to the report. " So HOW MANY of those "ISRAELI SHELLS" that Hamas has claimed hit schools and hospitals were really Hamas IEDs? We KNOW that there are 20-30% of all the thousands of rockets launched at Israel by Hamas hitting Gaza, with their anti-personnel warheads. Now this: Hamas is FAR better at killing Palestinian civilians than Israel is. "I met today with a Spanish journalist who just came back from Gaza. We talked about the situation there. He was very friendly. I asked him how comes we never see on television channels reporting from Gaza any Hamas people, no gunmen, no rocket launcher, no policemen.. We only see civilians on these reports, mostly women and children. He answered me frankly: "It's very simple, we did see Hamas people there launching rockets, they were close to our hotel, but if ever we dared pointing our camera on them they would simply shoot at us and kill us." Wooh, impressive. Then I asked him "would you mind saying that on camera? I can film you explaining this..." For some reason I cannot really understand he refused and almost ran away. I guess my camera is as dangerous as Hamas threats…" MORE war crimes you have approved of and supported Hamas in: "And yet, during the course of the current operation, he said, he saw, for example, "a fan" of 15 rockets scream skyward from Beit Hanoun, in northern Gaza. Immediately, he could see, from his command position, where they were headed: Ashdod, Kiryat Gat, Tel Aviv. As he zoomed in on the point of fire he saw that the rockets were launched from an underground launcher "on the fence" of a boys and girls school." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 31 Jul 14 - 12:55 PM "why only the Israeli government has earned your scorn for its "genocide." " I've made my views on Syria known, only to be met with suggestions that it was acceptable to sell Assad sniper rifles and riot control equipment at the time his snipers were shooting women on the streets of Homs and offering prizes of a cigarette to those who could kill a mother and baby with the same shot. "Britain is hardly in the same league. You have clearly been searching vigorously, but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles. The only other "weapons" supplied were armour plated buses, tear gas and water cannon." Keith on 'Homs Horror' thread. "Guess what "Jim Lad" - Snipers have to practice - they do rather a lot of it." Terrytoon - same thread. Not to mention selling the same murderous dictator chemicals that could be used to manufacture Chemical weapons "Sodium fluoride is a harmless substance freely available everywhere. They dose our water with it to protect our teeth It is not a weapon, although you would not want a big sack to land on your toe." Keith on 'Chemical Weapons in Syria' thread Keep up, O Bearded Blaggard, otherwise you miss out on all the entertainment. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 31 Jul 14 - 01:10 PM ""Over eighty kilograms of explosives were built into the UN-funded hospital's walls themselves, it was cleared for publication Thursday - revealing that the clinic itself was built to mask, and perform, potential acts of terror on the IDF" By the way - your above quote (carefully unlinked), was lifted directly from Arutz Sheva. "Arutz Sheva (Hebrew: ערוץ שבע) (Channel Seven) is an Israeli media network identifying with Neo-Zionism" Which seems about the level of 'information' As I type, an Israeli pilot is showing a television reporter the working of his aircraft, explaining that his plane if fully equipped with sophisticated cameras which enable him to be aware of exactly what he is dropping his bombs on. To the reporter's accusation that he knows he is attacking hospitals and schools, he paused, then said, we offer them medical assistance! Genocide just about sums it up, I'd say, wouldn't you? Silly question, of course you wouldn't Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 14 - 01:12 PM UN complicity in war crimes: "As those who pay attention know by now, the entire Strip and much of Southern Israel are riddled with a mammoth network of terror tunnels designed to murder and kidnap Israelis and store weapons while protecting the mega-rich Hamas leadership. Israeli troops entering Gaza last week have so far uncovered 18 tunnels used by Hamas to send armed terrorists into Israel and built using an estimated 800,000 tons of concrete. And how did it get there? That concrete was supposedly shipped into Gaza for "humanitarian purposes." Isn't that purportedly the province of the UN? What was there role in it exactly? How did this stunning amount of concrete slip in to be used for evil purposes? " And not ONE shelter FOR THE CIVILIAN POPULATION. THAT should meet the approval of our three stooges ( Jimmy, Musket, and Greggie)... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 31 Jul 14 - 01:13 PM IDF Soldiers Find Mosque with Weapons and Tunnel Openings YouTube Hamas has now made mosques, UNRWA facilities and hospitals legitimate targets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 14 - 01:20 PM Sorry, jimmy boy. IF a hospital or school is used as a military site, such as to launch or store missiles, IT LOSES IT'S "PROTECTED" STATUS under the Geneva Conventions. THAT IS WHY such use BY HAMAS is a "Grievous Violation" in and of itself, in spite of YOUR approval. The attacker then has to look at the potential impact of the attack- IF the site continues in use, is the harm that it causes greater than the harm to civilians at the site. It looks like EACH HAMAS ROCKET kills about 15-20 civilians and wounds about 200 when it hits GAZA- So a 15 rocket launcher endangers 225- 400 dead, 3000 to 4000 wounded EACH TIME IT LAUNCHES A SALVO of rockets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 31 Jul 14 - 01:22 PM Hamas entered the operation with an estimated 15,000 active fighters, including men in supportive positions. Although other Israeli sources speak of hundreds of Hamas fighters killed, the IDF believes it has killed over 1,000 (which would underline Israeli claims that there is a far higher proportion of combatants than widely reported among the 1,360 total Gaza fatalities cited by Gazan health sources). The IDF is destroying or significantly harming Hamas's combat units in Beit Hanoun and Shejaiya in the northern Gaza Strip and Khan Younis in the south. Read more: From tunnels to R-160s, a primer on Hamas and its deadly capabilities | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/from-tunnels-to-r-160s-a-primer-on-hamas-and-its-deadly-capabilities/#ixzz394GHfZGx Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 14 - 01:27 PM "The explosives, which were deliberately planted into the walls of the medical facility by terrorists, weighed around 150kg and were put into a clinic that was built to mask and perform potential acts of terror on the IDF. In addition, the clinic was built over a number of terror attack tunnels, intended to be used by Hamas to attack Israel. Obviously, UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency), which runs the clinic has yet to respond to the serious allegation that it knowingly allowed one of its facilities to be used from which terror attacks could be launched. The U.N. has been totally discredited, as it is every time Israel is attacked by one of its neighbors, as it drafts condemnation after condemnation in Geneva for Israel's defensive war, while actively assisting the terrorists of Hamas on the ground. There cannot be anything more morally reprehensible than the U.N., an body committed to the principle of human rights, aiding and abetting a terrorist organization in this way. On Tuesday, Hamas and Islamic Jihad rocket arsenals were found in a UNRWA school for the third time this month. Having found the deadly rockets at the UNRWA school, it was reported that rather than destroying the rockets, UNRWA workers called Hamas to come to "remove" them. Of course, UNWRA has neglected to comment on the deaths of the three Israeli soldiers and instead rushed to place blame on Israel for a rocket strike on one of their schools in Gaza which turned out to have been a Palestinian rocket which fell short of its target in Israel." http://www.inquisitr.com/1384173/explosives-which-killed-three-israeli-soldiers-were-booby-trapped-inside-u-n-clinics-walls/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 31 Jul 14 - 01:32 PM "There cannot be anything more morally reprehensible than the U.N., an body committed to the principle of human rights, aiding and abetting a terrorist organization in this way." Hear, hear!.....Indict the bastards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 31 Jul 14 - 02:45 PM http://uthinkithink.weebly.com/1/post/2013/05/israels-peculiar-position-written-in-1968-by-eric-hoffer.html ISRAEL'S PECULIAR POSITION by Eric Hoffer-- Los Angeles Times May 26, 1968 (Eric Hoffer's Bio Below) ISRAEL'S PECULIAR POSITION by Eric Hoffer - LA Times 5/26/68 The Jews are a peculiar people: what is allowed to other people is forbidden to them. Other nations drive out thousands, millions, and there is a "refugee problem." Russia has, Poland and Czechoslovakia have. Turkey expelled a million Greeks, and Algeria a million Frenchmen. Indonesia drove millions of Chinese and no one says anything about "refugees". But in the case of Israel, the displaced Arabs become eternal refugees. The world insists that Israel must take back all. Arnold Toynbee said that the displacement of the Arabs an atrocity was greater than any committed by the Nazis. Other nations victorious on the battlefield dictate peace terms. But when Israel is victorious, she has to ask for peace. Everyone expects the Jews to be the only "true Christians" on this planet. Other nations, when they suffer a defeat, survive and recover, but the day that Israel is defeated, it will be destroyed. If Nasser had triumphed last June [1967], Israel would have disappeared from the map and no one would have lifted a finger to save the Jews. No formal commitment made by any government to Jews, including those issued by our own government, are worth the paper they are written. The world outrage mounts a scandal when civilians die in Vietnam or when two rebels are executed in Rhodesia. But when the Jews Hitler murdered in cold blood, no one protested against it. The Swedes are prepared to sever ties with the United States for our war in Vietnam, but they did not say a peep when Hitler slaughtered Jews. He was sent to Hitler his best iron ore, bearings for their tanks, and gave service to train troops sent to Norway. The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives, it will be thanks to their own efforts and resources. However, at the moment, Israel is our only true unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than they can depend on us. We just have to imagine what would have happened last summer [1967] if the Arabs and their Russian allies had won the war to realize how vital Israel to America and the West in general. I have a hunch that will not leave me alone, what happens to Israel will seal our own fate. If Israel perish, the Holocaust will fall upon us all. Eric Hoffer was a proletarian thinker. He worked as a stevedore at the ports and became philosopher of common sense. He wrote columns for newspapers in the U.S.. He was not Jewish ... was an American "walk". Born in 1902 and died in 1983, after writing nine books and received the Distinguished Presidential Medal of Freedom ... the highest civil order of the U.S.. His first book, "The True Believer", published in 1951, was recognized as a classic. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ This op-ed (though I think the term not in use then) piece was written shortly after the 1the 1967 war. Already, then, it was clear how the world felt about Israel's victory over the immediate Arab world. We now consider it the Israel/Palestine problem. It seems to me that not much has changed for Israel in the subsequent 45+ years. Israel is still expected to make right Arab treatment of Palestineans, and Palestinean treatment of Jordan, Lebanon and Syria during the years since. I think Hoffer's last sentence is precient. It may even be in progress as we argue at Mudcat. Musket, Jim, Greg, Stilly, Stringsinger, Steve Shaw, et. al., I'm interested in your reaction to Mr. Hoffer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 31 Jul 14 - 02:55 PM "IF a hospital or school is used as a military site, such as to launch or store missiles, IT LOSES IT'S "PROTECTED" STATUS under the Geneva Conventions. " If your information comes from extremist Zionist propaganda rags like Inquisitr or Arutz Sheva it doesn't even begin to have credibility as information. There is no confirmatio of this information whatever oyher than the aforementioned 'sources' Oldest trick in the world for terrorist states - blame the victim - the Nazis perfected the technique. You didn't mention the fact that the Israeli pilot just interviewed demonstrated to beyond doubt that he knew exactly that he was attacking hospitals and schools - but then again, you wouldn't, would you. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 14 - 03:12 PM Sorry, Jimmy boy. "If your information comes from extremist Zionist propaganda rags like Inquisitr or Arutz Sheva it doesn't even begin to have credibility as information. There is no confirmatio of this information whatever oyher than the aforementioned 'sources' " MORE of your lies. ** I ** was quoting from the ACTUAL GENEVA CONVENTIONS, which you obviously have NEVER bothered to look at. Now, since you have swallowed ( and insisted was the truth ) EVERY statement from HAMAS , PLEASE tell us what YOU accept as valid fact- So far, it seems you have "SRS SYNDROME" _"I'll ONLY accept as fact what agrees with what I want the facts to be." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 31 Jul 14 - 03:31 PM " was quoting from the ACTUAL GENEVA CONVENTIONS, which you obviously have NEVER bothered to look at." Your information on the finding weapons in hospitals came from the two Zionist rags I mentioned. Israel threatened to bomb hospitals and schools from day one of the slaughter - the earliest reports of their having done so cites 3 hospitals and 70-odd schools Up to now, their excuse has been that there were Hamas fighters in the vicinity - now surprise, surprise, after several horrific cases of UN shelters being attacked, their propaganda machinery has uncovered hidden weapons caches - better late than never, I suppose. The Nazis were a bit better at it, but the Israelis are catching up fast Still no comment on the pilot showing he knew exactly who he was bombing - no surprise there either. Jim Carroll Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 31 Jul 14 - 04:05 PM It should tell you everything you need to know about someone who unquestionably accepts everything coming from a terrorist group committed to the genocide of all Jews and rejects anything coming from the Jewish side. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Ed T Date: 31 Jul 14 - 04:53 PM "You cannot shake hands with a clenched fist." Indira Gandhi |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: GUEST Date: 31 Jul 14 - 05:33 PM John on the Sunset Coast- Hoffer was, and is, right on. Reminds me of the Israeli author Ephraim Kishon who wrote "Unfair to Goliath" shortly after the 1967 War. Goliath's wife is lamenting: "I don't know what to tell the little children, they keep asking, 'Has daddy killed all the Jews yet?'" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 14 - 05:55 PM Well John I know very well who Hoffer was and am familiar with his history and writings, but thanks for the patroniizing bit anyway.. What do I think, John? I think that was 1968. This is 2014. I also think some of the statements are fatuous in the extreme, even then. e.g. 1. If Israel survives, it will be thanks to their own efforts and resources. Well, John, lets then cut off the billions of U.S. aid and LET Israel survive "on its own resources". Yes? and 2. If Israel perish, the Holocaust will fall upon us all. Prescient? Please. I also think the atrocious treatment of the Jewish people thru history does not exhoneratesubsequent and/or current Israeli government atrocities. Finally, I think you would do well to read some of Hoffer's later comments and observations written closer to the end of his life, after witnessing Israeli government behavior for several decades following 1968. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Ed T Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:05 PM Humanitarian ceasefire in 7 hours? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:12 PM Well John I know very well who Hoffer was and am familiar with his history and writings, but thanks for the patroniizing bit anyway.. If you follow and read from the link I gave, you will find I did not patronize you. Or is soliciting an opinion at the end now considered patronizing? I will expect your apology for your gratuitous comment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:19 PM No, the LINK did not patronize me, but your POSTING did. Don't wait too long for that apology, now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:35 PM Israeli officials argue privately that UNRWA simply should not exist. They say Palestinian refugees should be defined and treated like any other refugee group around the world. They say UNRWA serves a Palestinian narrative fundamentally intolerant of Israel's existence. They say UNRWA disseminates a relentless, one-sided, emotional and problematic message that is implicitly anti-Israel. Read more: The trouble with UNRWA | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-trouble-with-unrwa/#ixzz395X8CU6j |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:39 PM "Humanitarian ceasefire in 7 hours?" Israel has said they will continue to destroy the terror tunnels ceasefire or no ceasefire, I hope they stick to that commitment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:57 PM So Israel agreeing to a "ceasefire" out of one side of their mouth and saying they will certainly violate it out of the other side is admirable in your book, Boo? Fascinating. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:12 PM Well, poor thin-skinned Greg, you patronize very easily, then. Perhaps you should find a different sandbox to play in, with friends whom you can control. By the way, the point you seemed to get from my posting of Hoffer is that I was defending Israel in this case. It was not. The point is that the world treats Israel the same now as then, and whether they defeat a big foe (then), or a smaller fo(now)e. And whether they are treated as all other nations, which by and large they weren't and they aren't. As to a 'holocaust', if it comes, it will not involve just Israel and Jews...it will likely envelop much of the world. Not looking for one soon, but maybe if the world doesn't get its act together... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:57 PM "So Israel agreeing to a "ceasefire" out of one side of their mouth and saying they will certainly violate it out of the other side is admirable in your book, Boo?" They are going to find and destroy those tunnels, that is their stated goal. Better they do it during the ceasefire and no one gets killed or do you prefer they do it during hostilities so that more Gazans die for the sole purpose of vilifying Israel? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 14 - 08:21 PM The point is that the world treats Israel the same now as then Yes, John you're right to a degree: Israel is permitted to get away with things that other nations are not and is praised for things for which other nations would be condemned. Then, and now - only a great deal moreso now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 Aug 14 - 01:43 AM "The point is that the world treats Israel the same now as then" The point is that Israel has dropped now let the mask drop and exposed themselves in their true colours for the vicious thugs they are What remains the same is the usual suspect pack of nodding- dogs who shuffle behind them defending their thuggery. It will be interesting to see if the U.S. will continue using its U.N. veto to protect them from the consequences of their behaviour, or will have the balls to step aside and let them be tried for the butchers they are. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Musket Date: 01 Aug 14 - 01:59 AM So... Israel is now slagging off The UN, possibly believing their own propoganda. Both sets of militants have agreed a humanitarian truce for a short while. Notice it is humanitarian. It isn't about the issue. The issue is about the blockade. Egypt will not lift theirs unless and until Israel do because that would mean the exodus of Gaza and refugees till the cows come home. Israel won't because the blockade is a convenient safeguard for their aggressive land grab. The small hope is exceedingly small, but now The USA is realising the wisdom of The UN at long last, we might see progress. Israel's self determination as they put it is as the 51st state. USA funded, both financially and morally. I doubt Washington would react so kindly to Texas pushing into Mexico, murdering and waving prayer books along the way. The retaliation of Mexico would be seen more objectively. The comments of the war mongering armchair warriors here is fascinating, not to mention repulsive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Teribus Date: 01 Aug 14 - 03:05 AM Homs thread? "I've made my views on Syria known, only to be met with suggestions that it was acceptable to sell Assad sniper rifles" Not one single "sniper rifle" was sold to Syria by the UK Christmas - You claimed incorrectly they had been. Your grounds for stating that rifles had been sold (with the inference that they had been sold by the British Government) was based upon a report that a licence had been granted to an independent arms dealer to export ~100,000 rounds of Standard NATO 7.62mm ammunition in 2009 - No evidence exists as to whether that sale ever took place, only that a licence had been granted. What is my point Christmas? 1: Show me a map detailing the borders of Palestine and Israel agreed to by Hamas, Fatah and the Palestine Authority Unity Government that delineates the "Two State Solution" that the Palestinian leadership (All shades) says they are fighting for. There must be one surely, if you believe what they say - True? Hamas Map of "Their" Palestine The above map is for 3rd Graders to complete of Paøestine from an exam set in one of their schools in 2002-3. Care to point out on that map where Israel is Christmas? Map of Palestine Fatah Map of "Their" Palestine as shown on TV 2: Tell me why the ONLY Palestinian Refugee Camps in existence are on Palestinian territory controlled by Palestinians and in the lands of their Arab neighbours who were the ones that encouraged the Arabs of Palestine to reject the "Two State Solution" offered by the UN in 1947 and opt for War instead? 3: Please explain to me why: "Any Arab, including his/her descendants, who can show that they worked in the mandated territory of Palestine for a minimum period of 18 months between 1923 and 1948 has a "Right of Return" while Jews: - Who have lived in parts of what is now known as the West Bank for hundreds or years have none. - Who legally purchased land between 1847 and 1919 during the Ottoman period have no right to reside in Israel. The 18 month thing above is the established UN criteria - look it up. A 72-hour Humanitarian ceasefire is now in place - let us see what happens. Hamas has always said that although it governs and controls Gaza it is incapable of controlling terrorist groups operating in their midst - If that statement is true then rockets will continue to fly, if not then their previous claims were total bullshit. As part of this negotiated ceasefire (Which Christmas, implies that Hamas have been consulted and have agreed to it) IDF troops remain in their existing positions inside Gaza and NO Offensive operations can be undertaken by either side - that does leave the IDF free to destroy tunnel networks they find inside the territory they currently control - I repeat Hamas has agreed to this and has accepted it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 Aug 14 - 03:49 AM "Show me a map detailing the borders of Palestine and Israel agreed to by Hamas" Fuck your maps and your claims of Hamas and israel Both the Muslims and the Jews have occupied these lands for millennia, both have an equal right to a peaceful life there - if old maps don't cater for that fact they are of as much use as those showing Mercia and Wessex. It's time you people who want to instigate wars over ancient borders or religion are made as much a thing of the past as are the Empires which created these messes in the first place. Why in gods name should I have to explain anything to somebody who supports political monsters like Pinochet and Thatcher (really dropped that ball, didn't you?) "Legally purchased - 1847 and 1919" my arse, let's see a way to stop thugs bombing hospitals and slaughtering patients, or is that ot to your taste? Your selling weapons or equipment to Assad was another of your monumental foot-in-mouths. Whether it was 'sniper rifles' (identified by Keith as such ""You have clearly been searching vigorously, but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles.") or sniper bullets is immaterial - both you and he approved of their sale to Assad at the time his snipers were slaughtering the people of Homs. Both you and Keith came together in support of selling military equipment to a murderous fascist dictator Your support went something like this: "That would be for the sniper rifles Jim. Britain does not make Kalashnikov rounds". "Even liberal democracies have to deal with riots. Non-lethal crowd control techniques are preferable to live rounds". "Snipers have to practice - they do rather a lot of it."" Which more-or-less sums up where you are coming from. You recently added the refinement of support for a murderous South American dictator who directed the rape torture and murder of thousands of his opponents in the name of "constitutional" democracy. To date, your sole contribution to this discussion has been to suggest that the Palestinians should surrender themselves to the people who are slaughtering their men women and children and destroying their homes, schools, and hospitals. If I wanted to tête-à-tête with an extremist I'd go to the B.N.P or 'White Supremist', or Muslim Watch', where they have, at least, refined their extremism into a sort of coherent policy, rather than swap insults with a toy soldier with the amusing habit of waving his gun around (any chance of showing us it again?) Go and play soldiers in the garden and we'll call you in when your dinner's ready Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Teribus Date: 01 Aug 14 - 05:53 AM "Fuck your maps and your claims of Hamas and israel" Not MY maps Christmas - those linked to are the maps displayed by Hamas, the Palestinian Authority and by Fatah. They all have duped you useful idiots into believing that they seek a Two-State Solution - so where is Israel on THEIR maps? Doesn't exist does it, which is why the Israelis are fighting. "Both the Muslims and the Jews have occupied these lands for millennia, both have an equal right to a peaceful life there" YES precisely, now get me any quote from any member of the Leadership of Hamas who subscribes to that. The second they do they will have peace with Israel (Don't take my word for it ask the Egyptians, ask the Jordanians ask Mahmoud Abbas) "Why in gods name should I have to explain anything" Ehmmm Christmas because that is what you are generally supposed to do in the process of discussion or debate - you Muppet. By the way I would love to see any quote from anything that I have written that illustrates my "support" for General Augusto Pinochet - As for Margaret Thatcher certainly IMHO she was one of the best peacetime Prime Ministers Great Britain has ever had. "Legally purchased - 1847 and 1919" my arse, let's see a way to stop thugs bombing hospitals and slaughtering patients, Why not try convincing Hamas to stop attacking Israel? "Your selling weapons or equipment to Assad was another of your monumental foot-in-mouths." Care to supply any proof that I have sold any weapons or equipment to Assad "Whether it was 'sniper rifles' (identified by Keith as such ""You have clearly been searching vigorously, but all you have come up with is some sniper rifles.") or sniper bullets is immaterial - both you and he approved of their sale to Assad at the time his snipers were slaughtering the people of Homs." Oh dear Christmas, not very good at details are you? Neither Keith A or myself ever stated that we approved of anything of the sort. There is actually no evidence to support your contention that any sale ever took place - only that an export licence had been granted. As for this bit: "...both you and he approved of their sale to Assad at the time his snipers were slaughtering the people of Homs." Export Licence applied for and approved in 2009 - Assad's forces open fire on protesters in Homs in March 2011 - See anything of a bit of a disconnect there Christmas?? - Like TWO F**kin Years!!! "You recently added the refinement of support for a murderous South American dictator" Really?? Where? When? By the bye Christmas how many questions of mine is that that you have now studiously ignored because the truthful answers to them would blow most of your wildly inaccurate assertions to oblivion? I await your usual response in the form of a rant consisting of nothing more than baseless assertions, downright lies laced with lashings of indignant emotive claptrap. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 Aug 14 - 07:30 AM I don't care what Hamas subscribes to - I don't support Hamas and never have. I am concerned with human beings and what is happening to them - not a century ago, but now. Go and squabble about maps somewhere else. "Why not try convincing Hamas to stop attacking Israel?" Count the dead women and children, the destroyed hospitals and schools, the devestated homes and work out for yourself who is attacking who - it really isn't difficult. "Neither Keith A or myself ever stated that we approved of anything of the sort." "all you have come up with is some sniper rifles" "Snipers have to practice - they do rather a lot of it." "Non-lethal crowd control techniques are preferable to live rounds" "Even liberal democracies have to deal with riots." All in relation to the sale of military equipment to a dictator in the process of slaughtering his people is approval enough for me. "Export Licence applied for and approved in 2009" Move in the right direction I suppose - you have always claimed it was never approved. Assad was murdering and torturing for at least ten years before the Arab spring demonstrations - he should never have been sold military equipment in the first place - but are you seriously claiming that snipers shooting down Syrians in 2011 could not have been trained two years earlier - are you out of your mind? The officers directing the slaughter would have had to be seasoned veterans - receiving their training - when exactly (please don't try to bluff your way with pseudo military bullshit - leave it for the pub tonight)? It boils down to a simple point really - Britain shouldn't sell anything to fascist thugs - we were aware of Assad's human rights record and his torture chambers yet he was sold arms and equipment). "Where? When?" You didn't claim that Pinochet overthrew an elected government murdered those he did because the ignored the constitution? Must have been somebody else posting in your name. He was a soldier and he headed an extremely bloody military coup, slaughtering thousands in the process - Thatcher, by describing what he did as "democratic", supported that coup and the results of it - you by denying her part in it and by describing Pinochet as "Good/Bad, just like Cromwell" supported what both Pinochet and Thatcher were - political thugs - enough to confirm my opinions of you. "studiously ignored..." -nothing - I have given my opinion over and over again on all the questions you have raised You have a habit of ignoring answers then claiming they have not been given. The only tangible point you have made is that the Gazans should surrender and throw themselves at the mercy of the people who have just butchers over a thousand of them, destroyed their homes schools and hospitals and are set fair to do so all over again if their demands aren't met Sorry - no time to waste on right-wing headbangers. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 01 Aug 14 - 07:52 AM Well, it took all of 90 minutes for the terrorists to breach the ceasefire. An Israeli soldier was abducted in the Rafah area of Gaza, in an attack perpetrated some 90 minutes after the onset of a truce, an IDF spokesman said Friday. The attack, which included a suicide bombing and involved enemy gunmen emerging from a tunnel shaft, came at 9:30 in the morning, during the early hours of what was to have been a 72-hour truce, and may signal a significant escalation in the 25-day-old war with Gaza. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 01 Aug 14 - 07:58 AM Well, if you thought the stories about the Hamas were not true regarding the forcing of Palestinian civilians to stay in the locations where the IDF will strike, think again…actually in this case you don't need to think, just look. This is a Palestinian civilian of Gaza who apparently has a mental disorder and who was found by an IDF soldier, bound, gagged and staved. This is a tactic of the Hamas. He would have eventually died from either starvation or an IDF strike on this location if it contained terrorists or weapons, which is what the Hamas wanted to happen. Luckily there was no strike and this humane IDF soldier found him and freed him, then gave him water IDF Soldier Helps Chained & Starving Palestinian Man In Gaza |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Greg F. Date: 01 Aug 14 - 08:22 AM Gee, Boo - nowhere in that heart-warming made-up story with no documentation whatever does it explain how the man ended up in chains. Perhaps he had been interrogated by the IDF or Mossad? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 Aug 14 - 08:24 AM "Well, it took all of 90 minutes for the terrorists to breach the ceasefire." Not sure whether you mean the Israeli "terrorists" or the Palestinian "terrorists" - nope, I'm lying, I know exactly who you mean. Our news announcer has just announced that it is not known who broke the truce - but then again - we are a backward, third world country here and not privy to such information!! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 01 Aug 14 - 11:08 AM Well Jim, a half hour or so after your post at 8:24A our top of the hour ABC News stated that Hamas broke the truce. Just saying. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Greg F. Date: 01 Aug 14 - 11:12 AM You just don't have the gift od second sight, like Boo, Bullshot, and FWK, Jim. Its a gift, tha knows. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 Aug 14 - 11:28 AM "Hamas broke the truce. Just saying." Given the circumstances John, I'm not surprised in the least. I am no respecter of Hamas (despite claims to the contrary) but in the light of what has happened over the last couple of weeks, I can't see any future for a short-term peace agreement unless it comes with an indication of a willingness to discuss the blockade, the checkpoints and the walls - without that, those who died would have done so only for the situation to return to where it was. Gaza is now being referred to, on this side of the pond as 'the world's largest open-air prison' - nobody is willingly going to respond to; "Come in convict number 324657980 - your time's up". Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 01 Aug 14 - 11:39 AM "I can't see any future for a short-term peace agreement unless it comes with an indication of a willingness to discuss the blockade, the checkpoints and the walls " Of course YOU can't. It was an humanitarian ceasefire, to allow for tending to wounded and getting food and supplies for civilians. No wonder at all that you do not think it was worthwhile. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 01 Aug 14 - 12:03 PM "we are a backward, third world country here and not privy to such information" Jimmy, Glad you finally realize that you ONLY get the news that you are supposed to, UNLESS you read a number of sources- Al Jazeera, BBC, WashPo, and yes, The Israel Times. EACH will leave out what it does not want you to think about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Greg F. Date: 01 Aug 14 - 12:46 PM Bullshot, you ONLY believe the news that you want to, EVEN IF you read a multitude of sources. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 01 Aug 14 - 01:02 PM Greggie boy YOU have no idea what I read, or believe. YOU, on the other hand, have stated that YOU believe "Black, and a Democrat" is the same as "Dumb Ni**er" Maybe your fellow stooges here should be aware of that: They will be judged by the company they keep. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 01 Aug 14 - 01:21 PM http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gaza-conflict-entering-dangerous-uncharted-164438373.html Hamas may have just pulled defeat from the jaws of victory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 Aug 14 - 03:57 PM "Jimmy, Glad you finally realize that you ONLY get the news that you are supposed to" Have realised no such thing I understand the peace was broken during a clash between armed Israeli soldiers on active duty bumping into a bunch of Hamas - didn't realise that soldiers could keep soldiering during a n agrees ceasefire. It remains to be seen whether has lost anything, Israel has yet to live down the massacre of 1,000 civilians |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: beardedbruce Date: 01 Aug 14 - 04:02 PM "Israel has yet to live down the massacre of 1,000 civilians" You mean that HAMAS has yet to live down the murder of up to a thousand Palestinian civilians by using them as humans shields and raining over 400 anti-personnel warheads upon them, while taking the concrete that could have been used for civilian shelters ( as done in Israel) to make tunnels to attack the civilian population of Israel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 Aug 14 - 04:37 PM How do you know that a thousand civilians have died Jim. Did you read any of that piece from Time magazine pointing out that most happened to be men of military age? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 01 Aug 14 - 04:40 PM "How do you know that a thousand civilians have died Jim." Because that's from Hamas which he unquestioningly believes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 01 Aug 14 - 06:51 PM Clearly the cease-fire provided the opportunity Hamas wanted to perform this operation. Their acceptance of the cease-fire – including the terms that IDF soldiers can keep their positions, which Hamas knew were near a hidden tunnel entrance – can only be described as a well-planned ruse for this attack, Hamas' most sought-after prize. These were not conditions that Hamas would normally accept. Hamas Accepted the 'Truce' Specifically to Kidnap a Soldier Israel should now make any future ceasefire or cessation of hostilities contingent on the release of the kidnapped soldier. If Hamas refuses Israel should continue until Hamas is decimated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine From: bobad Date: 01 Aug 14 - 06:55 PM A television reporter from Finland's Helsingin Sanomat, the "Helsinki Dispatch," spent the night reporting from Gaza's Al Shifa Hospital, where she saw Hamas militants launching a rocket from the hospital's parking lot, confirming a war crime that few journalists have dared report. Using hospitals, schools and mosques to store weapons or as a military base is against international rules of war. The Al Shifa Hospital, in particular, has been an area of focus after journalists reported that Hamas was using the hospital as a headquarters, but many of their reports were withdrawn, deleted on social media or actually taken off their newspaper websites because of fears for their safety and retribution from Hamas for reporting the truth. Finnish TV Reporter at Gaza's Al Shifa Hospital: 'It's True That Rockets Are Launched Here From the Gazan Side Into Israel' |
